If Kierkegaard (1813 -1855) would have had access to SL, he definitely would have had at least six or seven alt avatars,
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all in constant debate with each other, for that was his method: writing under a lot of pseudonyms.
The reason for this was that he didn’t wanted to build a system, like e.g. Hegel did and an other reason was that his drive to write was pure subjective.
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You could say that he was a talented Danish writer who wanted to criticize the establishment and share tons of questions he had in a Socratic way with a large audience.
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Denmark had recently and very rapidly been transformed from a feudal society into a capitalist society.
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Universal elementary education, large-scale migration from rural areas into cities, and greatly increased social mobility meant
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that the social structure changed from a rigidly hierarchical one to a relatively “horizontal” one. It is the world of the beginning Industrial Revolution.
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That is the world Kierkegaard lived in. His works can not be understood as showing a kind of philosophical system. On the contrary,
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it is a collection of publications closely related with Kierkegaard as a person and his struggle with being a real christian.
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That is not really a philosophical problem. Let theologians deal with it. Yet Kierkegaard is known as the “father of existentialism”.
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An other puzzling aspect is, that existentialism usually is related with atheism by default. So how should we understand this.
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Kierkegaard himself never used the term existentialism, but yet what made him the first man of that kind of philosophy?
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Philosophically it was probably his fundamental disagreement with the philosophy of Hegel (1770 - 1831), which was popular in those days, especially in the People’s Church of Denmark.
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Hegel reduced the individual to one who is just a part of the dialectic process of thesis, anti-thesis, synthesis.
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According to Kierkegaard it is not some dialectic process but the individual, who constitutes himself as the individual he is
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through his choice of one mode of existence rather than another. Choice it the core of all human existence.
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The essence of Kierkegaard's concept of choice is that it is criterionless. If criteria determine what I choose, it is not I who makes the choice; hence the choice must be undetermined.
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Although there is little existentialism in the real historical sense of the word in Kierkegaard's thoughts,
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what is a stricking resemblance is that for Kierkegaard the personal choice, the criterionless choice, is what constitutes the individual's life.
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To quote Kierkegaard himself: "What I really miss is a clear idea in my mind about what I must do, not about what I must know...
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the point is to find a truth which is true for me, to find the idea for which I can live and die".
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If he is regarded as the 'father of existentialism" then it is because he was the first philosopher who made individual truth and individual choice the core of existence.
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Thank you…..any questions or remarks? Feel free…the floor is yours.
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The discussion
[13:15] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine) claps
[13:16] Max Chatnoir: But if you are using criteria to guide your choices, don't you also choose the criteria?
[13:16] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Thank you, you portrayed Kierkegaard as a renewer
[13:16] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): I guess it is the main point in life, to figure out the things which are really important for oneself in life
[13:16] herman Bergson: Only in the 1940s his work was translated in german...
[13:17] herman Bergson: Good point Max.....
[13:17] Max Chatnoir: It was in English by the late 50's wasn't it?
[13:17] herman Bergson: But suppose that the criteria are formulated by science?
[13:17] herman Bergson: yes
[13:18] herman Bergson: or criteria offered by a Church...
[[13:18] Max Chatnoir: Science isn't generally prescriptive.
[13:18] herman Bergson: They think that this last one was his main concern...
[13:19] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): hi bejita
[13:19] herman Bergson: Hi bejiita :-)
[13:19] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Bejiita ㋡
[13:19] Bejiita Imako: puh finally got home
[13:19] CB Axel: Hi, Bejiita.
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bejiita
[13:19] Bejiita Imako: been on a sport event with a friend
[13:19] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): oh nice
[13:19] Bejiita Imako: it was ㋡
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: I guess you'd have to decide if you wanted to adhere to the tenets of a particular church.
[13:19] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Hope you had fun ㋡
[13:19] herman Bergson: Kierkegaard was one of the first who made this difference between the individual and "the crowd"
[13:20] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Hi Violet ㋡
[13:20] CB Axel: Hi, Violet.
[13:20] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): hello violet
[13:20] herman Bergson: Hi Violet
[13:20] Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Chantal ,CB, Hermine, Herman, all :)
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hello Violet
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: hi
[13:20] herman Bergson: K. chose for the individual and against conformism and stereotypes
[13:21] CB Axel: Why would anyone choose to follow the teaching over a church as opposed to science except out of fear of a god?
[[13:21] Max Chatnoir: I used to meet with a group of people that I really liked and admired. They were Bahai, and they were doing informational discussions for inquirers. I thought they really had their heads on straight, but they did have a central prophet figure that you had to agree was an agent of God or something like that. I couldn't go there.
[13:22] herman Bergson: Well the thing is you first believe in a god, then you start to fear his punishment and then you obey according to criteria of a church :-)
[13:22] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ;-)
[13:23] herman Bergson: YEs Bahai is a religion....
[13:23] herman Bergson: In essence Kierkgaard was a theologian....
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: think I’ve heard about it
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Yes, a friend earlier today was talking about his visits to India and the religious wars there between somebody and somebody else. It just seems always to end in destruction.
[13:24] herman Bergson: but with an individualistic interpretation of how to be a believer
[13:24] herman Bergson: yes...religion has been and still is a cause of war
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: Yes, sorry, I didn't mean to get sidetracked there.
[13:25] herman Bergson: or a means to wage war for other reasons
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: But Kierkegaard was kind of a theologian.
[13:25] herman Bergson: A 100% one :-)
[13:25] herman Bergson: His main concern was how to be a good christian...
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): did he get problems with Rome?
[13:26] CB Axel: So Kierkegaard did not believe in one god, or did he believe in God but didn't think we really knew what God wanted us to do?
[13:26] herman Bergson: That they call him the first existentialist thinker....well....not my idea :-)
[13:26] CB Axel: I mean, if you believe in one God, then that one God must have one set of rules for us.
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: So he was developing the criteria that he thought were at least consonant with that tradition.
[13:26] CB Axel: Or does God have a multiple personality disorder?
[13:27] herman Bergson: Well...his main point was that you can not believe based on reason...
[13:27] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): He has more possibilities;-)
[13:28] herman Bergson: there had to be this leap of faith that jumps past reason...
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: Once you abandon reason, you are on shaky ground.
[13:28] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): sorry :( I have an urgent matter to take care off. Enjoy everyone, thank you Herman ㋡
[13:28] CB Axel: Bye, Chantal.
[13:28] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): bye chantal
[13:28] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Waves ㋡
[13:28] herman Bergson: Don't ask me too much about this....it is not my chapter :-)
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: bye chantal
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): truste Chantal
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Chantal
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: hmm indeed one who believe in god dont believe in reason but in magic
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: something like that
[13:29] herman Bergson: the only thing I see in Kierkegaard is that he puts the individual in the centre of his existence...creating and defining himself by his choices
[13:29] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): magic is forbidden when u believe in god;-)
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: but gud is supernatural stuff = magic = non existent
[13:30] Max Chatnoir: Reason may be imperfect, but if we walk away from it, we are abandoning what makes us human.
[13:30] herman Bergson: and as such it was an original approach of life in those days
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: gos
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: god
[13:30] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): depends on what u think what magic is;-)
[13:30] CB Axel: I can see why people would reasonably choose God. If they don't know anything else.
[13:30] herman Bergson: I agree Max :-)
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: magic is things that cant be explained bu laws of physics and chemistry or is breaking those said laws which is 100 % impossible to do
[13:31] herman Bergson: The better education the less work for a god I would say :-)
[13:31] CB Axel: °͜°
[13:31] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): magic is the power of thinking. always was, but wrong translations made it to what peeps think now.
[13:32] CB Axel: But Bejiita, back then people didn't know as much as we know now.
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: well that could be 1 possible magic
[13:32] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): and also the will of peeps to see more in it as it is
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: indeed, at that time it was understandable
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: the issue is today in 2015 people still believe in this instead of the scientific knowledge we have today
[13:33] CB Axel: I agree, Bejiita. That's the sad thing.
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: and the result is war and death
[13:33] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): there must be a balance between science and believing and knowing things. science is not the answer to everything
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: 3rd world war is raging at moment
[13:33] CB Axel: Is it?
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: IS Boko Haram, Syria
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: well almost at least
[13:34] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): no its not the answer;-)
[13:34] CB Axel: I fell asleep and must have missed it.
[13:34] herman Bergson: If science has no answer we just have to say: I know that I don't know......likek Socrates said :-)
[13:34] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): we forgot our roots and that we are only a opart of nature
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:34] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): and not the leader of the world
[13:35] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): and we all have no answers. only some hints
[13:35] herman Bergson: To some extend Daruma....
[13:35] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ;-)
[13:35] herman Bergson: We are today well aware of the fact that we are part of nature and the ecosystem, I would say
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: yep
[13:36] herman Bergson: that we behave unnatural or against nature is another problem
[13:36] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): yo
[13:36] herman Bergson: not the topic of today ^_*
[13:36] herman Bergson: I guess we are done with Kierkegaard :-))
[13:36] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): tztztz^^
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:37] herman Bergson: So…..thank you all again...:-)
[13:37] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): thank u herman!
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:37] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-)
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:37] Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Thanks, Herman, all... Be well :)
[13:37] CB Axel: Thank you, and I'm sorry I was late.
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: cu next time
[13:37] herman Bergson: But feel free to continue the conversation :-)
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: Hi, CB.
[13:38] CB Axel: Like I said, I fell asleep.
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I have to go to sleep now, goodnight all
[13:38] herman Bergson: when CB?
[13:38] CB Axel: I completely missed the start of World War III
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: bye beertje
[13:38] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ww3 wasn’t interesting
[13:38] CB Axel: I fell asleep about 1 1/2 hours before class.
[13:38] CB Axel: I didn't think I'd sleep long. I was just "resting my eyes."
[13:39] herman Bergson smiles
[13:39] Max Chatnoir: Bible says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" but Kierkegaard was trying to do that.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Yes...I still don't understand why a god you choose always has to install fear upon you....why not joy and happiness?
[13:40] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): buddha gives joy
[13:41] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): and the minions
[13:41] herman Bergson: no god = no fear = joy and happines :-))
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:41] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): lol
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: Oh, that was the name of one of his books, wasn't it? Fear and Trembling?
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: as i say SCIENCE ROCKS!
[13:41] herman Bergson: buddha isnt a god....originally not even a religion...just a philosophy of life
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: What Bejiita said. :-)
[13:41] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): in my world a god is a philosophy.
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: this video proves science make you happy
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Lt9yUf-VY
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:42] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): also the bible is a book of creating your life better
[13:42] herman Bergson: ahh :-)
[13:42] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): well, the original bible...
[13:42] herman Bergson: I'll check it out Daruma :-))
[13:42] Max Chatnoir: Speaking of video, have you seen the video of the jaguar jumping on the crocodile?
[13:42] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): ja ok;-) so Thursday again;-)
[13:43] CB Axel: I'd like to read a reliable translation of the books that make up the Bible and the texts that got edited out of it.
[13:43] herman Bergson: yes Daruma :-)
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:43] herman Bergson: No Max...what was the outcome?
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: Yes, I will hope, as always, to see you Thursday.
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: The jaguar won.
[13:43] CB Axel: OK. I'll see you all on Thursday, and I'll try not to be late.
[13:43] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine) waves wild
[13:43] herman Bergson: \o/
[13:43] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): have a silent night
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: bye CB
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: bit the crocodile on the neck and hauled it off.
[[13:43] herman Bergson: amazing!
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:44] Hermine Daruma Boa (hermine): bye bye
[13:44] herman Bergson: Bye Daruma
