Monday, February 14, 2022

976: Petrarca meets Cicero....

I try to imagine how it must have been in 1340 in those cities like Milan, Rome and Florence in Italy. City-states, where the citizens had some influence on the political affairs.

   

And then you find a book, written more than a thousand years ago, which discusses the very issues, that keeps you busy too.

   

And the thoughts and considerations you read are not old fashioned and outdated, but highly intelligent and sophisticated.

  

Maybe that experienced Petrarca when he discovered the writings of Cicero (106 - 43 BC), a roman statesman, orator and philosopher.

  

What are the foundations of a society in which every citizen can live freely and independently? Pondering about that question, you encounter the philosophy of Cicero.

   

Studying Cicero offered key insights into both the development of  theories of natural law and the structuring of political communities around these principles. 

   

That was a major discovery. Cicero believed that there was a divine reason which governed every aspect of the universe; 

   

(Cicero) “I say, then, that the universe and all its parts both received their first order from divine providence, and are at all times administered by it.” 

  

For Cicero, this divine mind designed and ordered the universe. This is a basic premise, which also today often is used to explain the overall world order. 

  

This is not an exclusive Christian belief. Far from it, it is much older. Cicero wasn't a christian. For Cicero, this divine mind designed and ordered the universe. 

  

He asserted that all things are implanted with a function and end towards which they are directed by the dictates of their own nature; this is called law. 

  

To Cicero, “law in the proper sense is right reason in harmony with nature.” 

  

I always find this an interesting approach of reality. What you see here is, that homo sapiens projects the structure of his mind and thinking on the universe. 

  

Through introspection he has learned, how his mind works, that discovering patterns and principles contribute to his survival, 

  

that he can use reason and logic to benefit from his insights, that some observations and conclusions are always the same. 

  

In many cultures you see that this experience leads to a belief that there must be a reason in everything there is and when you live in accordance with this reason, you fulfill the purpose of your life. 

  

Thus reasoned Cicero. He asserted that all things are implanted with a function and end towards which they are directed by the dictates of their own nature. 

  

This is called law. To Cicero, “law in the proper sense is right reason in harmony with nature.”  Since everything is designed with an end or purpose in mind, a classic  conviction of Aristotle, 

   

Cicero believed that by examining and understanding something’s form and function, one could figure out how something ought to act. 

  

Thus he argued that by examining humanity he could understand how humanity OUGHT to act. The purpose of humanity is achieving rationality. also defined as justice.

  

To comprehend the nature of justice, one must seek it by understanding the nature of humanity, since “moral excellence is nothing other than the completion and perfection of nature.” 

   

This is the context in which man should be able to experience his freedom, his freedom to live his live as he likes. 

  

So, the next question will be, how can man achieve this within the restrictions of this divine reason, that administers the universe? The answer to that question still resounds to this day. 

   

Thank you for your attention..... the floor is yours...


Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
 http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm
Annelien de Dijn: "Freedom. An unruly history".  2020

The Discussion                  


[13:19] herman Bergson: And I''lll address the answer in the next lecture :-)

[13:19] Blackrose (blackrose.baroque): Thank you Herman

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:19] herman Bergson: :-)

[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ponders

[13:20] oola Neruda: seems like that is where religion begins to fit in

[13:20] oola Neruda: love thy neighbor... etc

[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i am guessing that is where the term natural law began

[13:20] herman Bergson: The main issue today is this general premise of an organizing reason in the universe

[13:21] herman Bergson: Indeed Gemma

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess

[13:21] oola Neruda: again, Buddhism... how to live and treat others

[13:21] herman Bergson: The premise makes human life deterministic to some extend

[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes oola...that you'll hear  about next Tuesday indeed :-)

[13:22] herman Bergson: We now this premise also in terms of Intelligent Design for instance

[13:23] herman Bergson: Darwin however showed that evolution had no purpose or end as such

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in the whole universe

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the "made by aliens" theory

[13:24] herman Bergson: Like Aristotle and with him Cicero assumed....the seed 's purpose is to become a plant...

[13:24] herman Bergson: Oh yes Saule.....

[13:24] oola Neruda: darwin was not trying to settle how to live....just how we "got here"

[13:24] herman Bergson: As I said...this belief isn't the prerogative of christianity

[13:24] herman Bergson: indeed oola

[13:25] Somedirtycat Saule: By having this meaning, reason and nature it don't stipulates that there are a creator at all. It may just be a form of symmetry we dint are aware of.

[13:25] herman Bergson: But as I said...I see this premise as a projection

[13:25] oola Neruda: war is a better teacher of how to live... if one ponders the results

[13:26] oola Neruda: and causes

[13:26] Somedirtycat Saule: Same with holographic view on universe. There is no need for an alien standing and project this with a reason.

[13:27] Somedirtycat Saule: No Matrix lol'

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope not

[13:27] herman Bergson: No :-)

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I still say maybe an invasion by aliens would help straighten out this world

[13:28] herman Bergson: The only thing I know is that nature si incredible complex...and that conscious life ...we...exist....

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): perhaps bring humans together

[13:28] Somedirtycat Saule: Or becom far less ppl on this earth

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): instead of war among ourselves

[13:28] herman Bergson: Nature has its rules indeed, Gemma...thence we are called social animals

[13:29] herman Bergson: a lot of organisms behave in a social way

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): most yes

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not just us

[13:29] herman Bergson: if there is a law of nature then it is this behavior that is in our genes

[13:30] Somedirtycat Saule: We don't do it good enough it seems

[13:30] herman Bergson: In Darwinian terms it might mean..it is there because it increased our chances on survival

[13:31] Somedirtycat Saule: Darwinian thinking don't work on humans as a whole.

[13:31] herman Bergson: Maybe you are right Saule ...socially we could do better :-)

[13:31] Sabeen Schmidt: you mean he was wrong

[13:31] Somedirtycat Saule: No

[13:31] Sabeen Schmidt: only unpleasant people think like this

[13:31] herman Bergson: Darwin wasn't wrong, in my opinion

[13:31] Somedirtycat Saule: Just that we must understand what system is needed for evolusion to work

[[13:32] herman Bergson: The problem with evolution is that it doesnt happen in one lifetime...changes cantake centuries...

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true

[13:33] herman Bergson: Maybe we are just an evolutionary stage

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): darwin did pretty well with a lot of his ideas

[13:33] herman Bergson: phase

[13:33] oola Neruda: what happens when a war takes place?  what could prevent it....?  that is a place to start talking about how we should behave

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): based on knowledge at that time

[13:33] Somedirtycat Saule: For example if we are to many the food need to be to little so some of us die off. Then balance

[13:33] Somedirtycat Saule: But we eat all out and destroying it for all future

[13:34] Somedirtycat Saule: all human dies,

[13:34] Somedirtycat Saule: Not evolution

[13:34] Somedirtycat Saule: extinction

[13:34] herman Bergson: a lot of creatures have gone extinct...yeah...dinos etc...why not us too one day? ^_^

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Humans will always find ways to protect itself ... lacking food? it will be solved

[13:35] herman Bergson: I think so too, Gemma

[13:35] oola Neruda: with climate change we might become extinct.... if we don't wise up

[13:35] Somedirtycat Saule: think of the enviroment left

[13:36] oola Neruda: and it is one root for a future war as well

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)

[13:36] Somedirtycat Saule: Galloping greenhouse effect

[13:36] herman Bergson: Water may be too, oola

[13:36] oola Neruda: yes

[13:36] Somedirtycat Saule: Cyanobacteria in oceans pooping out cyanid clouds

[13:37] herman Bergson: But let's stay optimistic and wait and see how Cicero imagines a good society :-))

[13:37] Somedirtycat Saule: nods

[13:37] oola Neruda: back to preventing war

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:38] oola Neruda: compassion

[13:38] herman Bergson: We love doomsday scenarios...but maybe they are good for movies and is homo sapiens smarter in reality

[13:38] mika Vemo: We have a completely different problem that a few mentally ill people from the USA want to stir up again in the war in Europe

[13:38] herman Bergson: At least smart enough still not to start anuclear war

[13:39] herman Bergson: Got that feeling too Mika

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope so indeed! (shudders again)

[13:39] oola Neruda: vote for trump... we could do that

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders) no i dont want any wars!

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!

[13:40] Somedirtycat Saule: oh crud. A fine nuclear war will save us from Greenhouse problem. Thanks US for fixing it :/

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well if thats the solution to that problem...

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ssss

[13:40] mika Vemo: That with the CO2 it is simply untrue in Greenland CO2 is blown into greenhouses with the plants growing faster where you only have three months of summer

[13:41] herman Bergson: Not to cynical please :-))

[13:41] oola Neruda: looks like fusion is becoming very feasible... that will help a lot... not have the same problems that our current  nuclear power plants have...

[13:41] oola Neruda: clean energy....

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes hang on

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there were some breakthroughs i saw

[13:41] herman Bergson: I heard so too

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): question is are they as usual still 50 years away or more

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope they get it working soon

[13:42] herman Bergson: You're our particle specialis Bejiita :-))

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): clean energy indeed and lots of it for all our servers, electric cars, hydrogen made steel and particle accelerators

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): btw they started firing up their machines today again at CERN

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Linac 4 turned on

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:43] herman Bergson: That's a big releaf :-)

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): time to find the lost socks!

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that makes you happy bej

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): finally!

[13:43] herman Bergson smiles

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bloody sock eating washing machines! ill defeat you!

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and get my sicks BACK

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): socks

[13:44] herman Bergson: I already feel the warmth coming from it , Bejiita ^_^

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:44] mika Vemo: With the money they spend on the fusion reactor, we could have built the whole of Europe with solar cells

[13:44] herman Bergson: Ok...I guess we saved the world another time again today....

[13:44] herman Bergson: So, time to put our brains to rest again :-)

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the issue is sun doesn't always shine. Something needs to cover for that

[13:45] herman Bergson: Unless you have that final question or remark.....?

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its a complement but weather and daytime dependent

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and season dependent also

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in winter itrs always dark

[13:45] herman Bergson: Ok....thank you all again.....

[13:45] oola Neruda: Cern is not involved in fusion... it is a different take on physics

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): * PLUPP *

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wll lets go and

[13:46] herman Bergson: Have anice weekend....and stay healthy

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!!

[13:46] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed but CERN could use fusion power

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wil try for Tuesday again

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye all

[13:46] herman Bergson: There always is hope, Gemma :-)

[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman,I have to go now

[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye bye

[13:46] oola Neruda: I have guests so will check out... have a great day y"all

[13:46] bergfrau Apfelbaum: always exciting with you all! thank you Herman and class

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa u cu around

[13:47] mika Vemo: bye