Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy concerned with the most basic questions about reality. Ontology is the branch of metaphysics that is concerned with the question: "What exists?"
Materialism is an ontological theory that presupposes an intuitive concept of SPACE. and the primary claim of materialism is that the only things that exist are those that occupy space.
As we already have discussed this presupposition of materialism has a negative implication. There is no room for the existence of ghosts, spirits or transcendent beings like gods.
However, this is an incomplete definition of materialism. Undoubtedly there are things that do not occupy space at all, but the existence of which we would not seriously question.
We are convinced, that thoughts exist. How else could I ever deliver this lecture. But also things like velocity or danger are quite real. I'd say.
This means that we have to expand the definition and assume that there exist things that are depending on things that occupy space for their existence.
In other words, without material things there would be no thought, velocity, danger or anything else. It is relatively easy to show that velocity as such does not occupy space, but without my bike I won't experience velocity.
Same with danger, of course. When I see a huge rock coming my way, I'll take action to avoid something that really exists: danger. I take cover.
But there are other things that cause some more trouble for materialism: Abstract entities. It is not reasonable to think that the number 3, for example, occupies space.
Sure you can write down a big 3 and say: doesn't that occupy space. It doe, but it is not the NUMBER three, but the sign for that number.
Statements like "there are infinitely many prime numbers", which is a truth of arithmetic, seem to be ontological assertions.
How should we respond to such a problem. One approach is to simply deny that the number 3 as any genuine existence at all.
It is feasible to argue that the whole edifice of arithmetic is an abstraction arising from the perception of collections of individual things that occupy space.
Others argue that whatever kind of existence numbers have, it is irrelevant to the kind of ontological problem in which materialists are interested.
There is one category of things of which existence we are convinced, that causes materialists maybe some headaches:
psychological phenomena, in particular conscious phenomena like perceptions, feelings and thoughts.
Take, for example, the awareness of good and evil. The functioning of our society depends on it. Moral thoughts really exist, but do not occupy space.
But we can presuppose, that all such phenomena are dependent on something that occupies space, in this case our body and especially the brain. We did a big project on that subject.
These are some preliminary thoughts on materialism, but they don't answer all the questions, one big question needs to be explored:
How do you know that what you say exists does, in fact, exist? Or on what grounds do you believe that what you say exists, really exists?
Let's save that for the next lecture....Thank you for your attention.
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
The Discussion
[13:12] Sarah (oosarebearoo): UGHHHH
[13:12] Sarah (oosarebearoo): ;;
[13:12] Sarah (oosarebearoo): lol
[13:12] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:12] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Sarah, you okay?
[13:12] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Yes lol.... I was waiting for the next part
[13:13] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Ahh. I understand your feelings on this completely.
[13:13] herman Bergson: You mean the epistemological question, Sarah?
[13:13] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Only because this follows along with some personal things I've been contemplating lately.
[13:13] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Ahh! Now I know the reason for your frustrated disappointment, Sarah.
[[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:14] herman Bergson: Could you elaborate on that Sarah?
[13:14] Sarah (oosarebearoo) smiles
[13:14] Sarah (oosarebearoo): I'd better not. Not yet.
[13:14] herman Bergson: ok
[13:14] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): No, don't say anything, Sarah!
[13:15] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Only because it's a crazy amount of random thoughts over the course of the last three years and no one has that much time.
[13:15] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Some people here with us might be a little too er...Evil.
[13:15] herman Bergson: At least these are the first steps in defining materialism as a feasible ontology
[13:15] Sarah (oosarebearoo): No, not evil Henry.
[13:16] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Sorry for seeming mistrustful of humanoids. This is just how I've learned to be, Sarah.
[13:16] Sarah (oosarebearoo): It's just the things that I learn, and the thoughts that I have are exciting to me and keep me on the edge of my seat with possibility.
[13:16] herman Bergson: Let's stick to the subject at hand, please
[13:16] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): I find I often feel the same way as you, Sarah. But okay, we'll stick to the subject at hand.
[13:17] herman Bergson: Let's question what really exists acording to a materialist view point
[13:19] herman Bergson: What strikes me is that probably none of youhave problems with the claim that there is no place for ghosts, the supernatural or gods in this philosophy
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I have never met a ghost so far so
[13:19] herman Bergson: Guess you all must be philosophical materialists then :-))
[13:20] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): I'm not a philosophical materialist, Mr. herman...
[13:20] herman Bergson: You are not, Feral?
[13:20] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): No, sir.
[13:20] herman Bergson: How would you describe your ontological views, Feral?
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i believe in numbers variables math and code however even they are not material things they still exist. However these are I would say more conceptual symbols that we have created
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as u said with our very material brain
[13:22] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Well, sir, my family has told me of certain events (Or things, depending on which term a person er...Prefers). And I have also seen these certain, unexplainable phenomena, and even FELT such a sensation, which could not be logically explained AT ALL.
[13:23] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): In direct reference to the latter-most unexplained experience I had, what I felt was VERY quickly followed by my Mom saying she actually SAW something in my bedroom...Something in the shape of a dark, humanoid shadow, but which she may have stated had a glowing uh...'spark' to it.
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes Feral...such phenomena are well known among neuroscientist
[13:25] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Right, sir.
[13:25] herman Bergson: Yjey can be provoked by the use of the "God helmet" (if that is the correct name of the object
[13:26] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): A good point, sir. Though I prefer to refer to such a thing just as The God. Or The God of THIS universe, if I'm up to speaking formally.
[13:26] herman Bergson: By using electro-magnetic impulses on the temples, the side of the head, people get an awareness of a presence
[13:27] AndrewEagle01: is the material world true?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Experiencing apparitions is a well known phenomenon and highly estimated among religious people, however neuroscientists have demonstrated that is is a kind of malfunctioning of the brain
[[13:29] herman Bergson: This 'God helmet " I mentioned is a real helmet put on the head of the test person
[13:30] herman Bergson: is the material world true? What do you mean by "true" Andrew?
[13:30] AndrewEagle01: it is the sensible world and the intelligible world that Plato describes. The sensitive is the one visited by our senses (smell, touch, hearing, etc.) and the intelligible world refers to the spiritual world (ideas, feelings, etc.)
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that we are living in Matrix?
[13:31] herman Bergson: A materialist would say...there is no spiritual world without a material world, c.q. the brain
[13:31] AndrewEagle01: We trust our senses .... as in our dreams ... and if material life were more like a dream
[13:32] herman Bergson: the basic question is ontological: What does exist?
[13:32] AndrewEagle01: Smiles at Bejita... you understood where I was coming from
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if material exist for me, does it exist for others too?
[13:33] herman Bergson: I guess the Matrix idea adds nothing to the materialist ontology.....
[13:33] herman Bergson: For the existence of the Matrix world you still need that material world of bodies in those cells
[13:33] AndrewEagle01: Of course.. Herman.. space and time exist in the human mind
[13:33] herman Bergson: you still need physical brains
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that we and everythibng around are just computer code and graphics generated in Unreal Engine 5 or some other super software
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): created by aliens
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i have hard to believe that fact
[13:34] herman Bergson: I am not sure about time....but space exists also without a brain
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the films are great
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :)3
[13:34] herman Bergson: I agree Bejiita :-))
[13:35] herman Bergson: Materialism begins with the presupposition of space, the place where matter exists
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I use Unreal 5 a lot and sure its totally awesome but I don't believe we and all around us are created with that or some similar software and we all really live in a simulation
[13:36] herman Bergson: Time isa very complex issue in this context
[13:36] AndrewEagle01: In SL we see space ... but does it really exist .... is it not the human mind that creates it in the mind to believe in it?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we are real made material 100 %
[13:36] herman Bergson: Sure Andrew....
[[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:37] herman Bergson: when you watch a movie you see all kinds of things happening, yet your eyes only touch a flat screen....
[13:37] AndrewEagle01: Indeed
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep
[13:37] AndrewEagle01: our eyes deceive us
[13:37] herman Bergson: Our brain creates the "reality" of what we see
[13:38] herman Bergson: that isn't that spectacular to me
[13:38] herman Bergson: sure
[13:38] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): If I watch a movie, and I am at home and close enough to the flat screen, I can touch it with my hands to, if I so desire...
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like I have now started watching my creepy films again in preparation for halloween
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): getting in the mood
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fits well with the autumn storm outside
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still its just a movie
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes Feral...you can touch the flat screen not the person you see on the screen
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but it affects me
[13:39] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Though, for the obvious reason of not wanting someone to call me crazy, I'm not gonna watch a movie at someone's house, then touch the screen and say I just touched X-character's hair, face, or so on...
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but im not afraid a monster from the movie will suddenly jump out and eat me
[13:39] AndrewEagle01: Smiles
[13:40] CONNIE Eichel is online.
[13:40] herman Bergson: I wouldnt be so sure of that Bejiita ^_^
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I however love cool monsters and i try learn to create and animate some myself at the moment
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): monster design is a skill for sure
[13:41] herman Bergson: But whatever monsters of movies you see, it still is dependent on the existence of a material substratum: the brain in this case
[13:41] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Besides, a monster, whether cool or not, is also just a character, which was made up out of some genius's imagination. ;-)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ecaxtly
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very true
[13:42] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): I say this because I, myself...Have created charctrs.
[13:42] herman Bergson: The next question is...how do we KNOW that what we see is real.....
[13:42] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Unless we are all just sharing memories
[13:42] Sarah (oosarebearoo): :-P
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa great
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:42] herman Bergson: That will be the question of the next lecture
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I do game dev a lot on my spare time and now im into some halloweeen projects
[13:42] Sarah (oosarebearoo): because we are all one existence, just different particles
[13:42] AndrewEagle01: you may cool
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have 3 ongoing now, each with a diffeerent game engine
[13:42] Sarah (oosarebearoo) giggles
[13:43] Sarah (oosarebearoo): I will leave you all with that
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): too many projects as usual lol
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im hopeless i know
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:43] herman Bergson: It is ok Sarah :-)
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but im a creator
[13:43] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): In fact, I could very well make a charctr in say...Sarah's likeness, but make her 250 feet in height, with weight appropriate for someone of her stature. Then, I could give her wings to fly with, and fire, lightning, or even water powers to shoot from her hands or mouth!
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats something!
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :9
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:43] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Don't be giving away my rl secrets Henry
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:44] herman Bergson: Not sure how this relates to our present theme, Feral ^_^
[13:44] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Obligations call
[13:44] AndrewEagle01: bye Sarah
[13:44] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Ha! Don't worry, I won't speak any more of your awesome secrets in RL, Sarah. Oh! And...
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu sarah
[13:44] Sarah (oosarebearoo): Farewell until next time, Thank you Herman!
[13:44] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): ...Thank you, Sarah, for bringing me over here.
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[13:44] herman Bergson: My pleasure Sarah, see you
[13:44] Sarah (oosarebearoo): I love sharing my adventures with friends!
[13:44] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): B-bye!!! :D
[13:44] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Sarah!
[13:44] Anuska (anuska.loon) is offline.
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats great
[13:45] herman Bergson: Well...I guess we are ready for the next lecture to complete our defing of materialism
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well indeed what is real and what is ....Unreal ㋡
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe3
[13:46] herman Bergson: Indeed Bejiita
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but that most of us can easily distinguish
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all i can touch and feel is real
[13:46] herman Bergson: By the way...where did Beertje go?
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I think
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): idk
[13:46] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): Poor Beertje may have crashed or just gone off on some other adventure.
[13:47] herman Bergson: Whent offline 10 minutes ago, I see
[13:47] herman Bergson: hmmm...
[13:47] herman Bergson: Well...
[13:47] herman Bergson: Thank you all, survivors for your attention :-))
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:48] AndrewEagle01: smiles
[13:48] herman Bergson: Get ready for the Tuesday lecture :-)
[13:48] Feral Henry (henrycrawford): No sweat off our backs here, sir.
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:48] herman Bergson: Class dismissed......
[13:48] AndrewEagle01: Thank you Herman for the lecture !
[13:48] herman Bergson: You are welcome Andrew
[13:48] Feral Henry (henrycrawford) nods, then rises from the chair he borrowed and begins to walk (Or TP) his way to his forest home.
