Tuesday, December 24, 2019

818: THE END.........

In the previous lecture I mentioned three things which are perhaps the most influential legacies of the 20th century: science, the "victory" of the free market and mass media/internet.
  
How the media will control our future can be seen in China. Artificial Intelligent, computer learning, big data, facial recognition systems and far reaching social control.
  
In our own life we too are confronted with the suction power of the internet, which proceses us by means of all big data, so that we can be buried under personalized advertisements.
   
And this because selling and buying, consumerism and liberal economy has become the worldwide standard.
  
This brings us to this "victory" of the free market. From a historical perspective the 20th century has made us witnesses of amazing events.
   
Events that will change the geo-political order on this planet. When you, like us, are in the middle of the process you hardly are aware of the huge changes.
   
Until, for instance, you run into a review of the book "The Light that Failed: A Reckoning"  by Ivan Krastev and Stephen Holmes (2019).
   
Then you realize again, that the fall of the Berlin Wall, on 9 November 1989, was a pivotal event in world history which marked the falling of the Iron Curtain.
   
And not only the fall of the Iron Curtain, but also the fall of an ideology, of communism. And that forced the question on former communist countries, 
  
what kind of social and economical organization 
should we choose to continue our existence?
   
Historically there was no option to choose at all. There only was one system left: the (neo)liberalism and democracy, which could be copied from the Western countries.
   
When communist systems collapsed, not because of war, but because their own leaders lost faith in the communist future, 
  
there was only one system left, a system that was worth imitating. Once, liberalism and Western capitalism became synonymous with modernity.
  
The world wasn't divided anymore in democracy versus communism. As Fukuyama said, humanity had reached "not just ... the passing of a particular period of post-war history, but the end of history as such: 
  
That is, the end-point of mankind's ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government".
  
It would be wonderful, if that is the legacy of the 20th century for this world. However, it is too good to be true.
   
The term illiberal democracy was introduced by Fareed Zakaria, an Indian-American journalist and political scientist, in a 1997 article in the journal Foreign Affairs.
   
An illiberal democracy, also called a partial democracy, low intensity democracy, empty democracy, 
  
hybrid regime or guided democracy, is a governing system in which although elections take place, 
   
citizens are cut off from knowledge about the activities of those who exercise real power because of the lack of civil liberties; thus it is not an "open society". 

Several former communist countries are developing into this direction
  
And what price did we pay? Now that history had shown that the working class actually is not a threat for the upper class,
   
at least in the Netherlands, social solidarity has been removed from the list of political and social standards and the liberal individualism has become the standard.
   
It all shows that we live a world still in the making and I wish that our ideas and considerations here may contribute to it for the good.
   
This lecture concludes our present project "The 20th Century Revisited". I hope you enjoyed your participation as interesting and educational.
    
Furthermore this is the final lecture of this year 2019 and I'll be back with a new project in January 2020.
   
Thank you all and Happy Holidays for you and your loved ones.....
    


The Discussion

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman:)
[13:20]     
[13:20] th3runner: Thanks Herman
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): puh finally
[13:20] CB Axel: Hi, Bejiita.
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): damn computer/sl
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bejiita:)
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wel well
[13:21] herman Bergson: Hello Bejiita...
[13:21] herman Bergson: We already were worried a little about you :-)
[13:22] th3runner: Thanks so much for the lecture
[13:22] th3runner: are there going to be any discussion session after?
[13:22] herman Bergson: My pleasure the3runner....
[13:22] herman Bergson: yes yes...always :-)
[13:22] Al Michigan: so, that is why  they started to  censure the internet, to prevent us from listening to alex jones!
[13:23] herman Bergson: who is alex jones, Al?
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there got it all
[13:23] CB Axel: I wouldn't listen to him anyway.
[13:23] herman Bergson: Oh..is that this right wing journalist....US..?
[13:24] th3runner: He is a conspiracy theorist
[13:24] herman Bergson: A Trumpist....?
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not heard of I think but not followed this stuff much
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:24] Al Michigan: alex jones is a man,  he started to generate news, but he has succes because of his formula to present it, altho he is reporting about the aliens regularly landing in the garden of the white house, some times he is just right with his ideas but he is also  evil, not a good source, but lotsa  like his news
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes..seen him now and then :-)
[13:25] herman Bergson: So..he is some amusing comedian?
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): is he like "THE ALIENS ARE HERE; ITS THE END OF THE WORLD WE ARE DOOOMED! DING DING DING!"
[13:25] Al Michigan: but alex jones is a well not a very  good example there are now  private journalist, working placing everything straight on the net, like TimPool and all
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that sort of dude?
[13:25] CB Axel: He is a right wing, white supremecist, conspiracy theorist horror.
[13:26] herman Bergson: But what is your point, Al?
[13:26] Al Michigan: tim pool is not tho.
[13:26] Al Michigan: if they want the ppl  dumb, and uninformed they have to  censure the internet and make it impossible to  get to a dark web
[13:27] Al Michigan: and that is what  seems to have started
[13:27] herman Bergson: who wants the people to be dumb?
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well China does its best
[13:27] CB Axel: We don't need to censure the internet. We need to educate the people.
[13:27] Al Michigan: \the govenrments you mentioned, mr Bergson!
[13:27] herman Bergson: I agree CB
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): very true CB
[13:27] Al Michigan: lemme look  for the line...
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): corrupt rulers who fear they will loose their power want the people dumb
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like in north Korea
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and similar places
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes, China as number one perhaps create its own information internet
[13:28] Al Michigan: here it is: 13:17] The term illiberal democracy was introduced by Fareed Zakaria, an Indian-American journalist and political scientist, in a 1997 article in the journal Foreign Affairs.
[13:17]    
[13:17] An illiberal democracy, also called a partial democracy, low intensity democracy, empty democracy, 
[13:17]   
[13:17] hybrid regime or guided democracy, is a governing system in which although elections take place, 
[13:18]    
[13:18] citizens are cut off from knowledge about the activities of those who exercise real power because of the lack of civil liberties; thus it is not an "open society". 
[13:18] Several former communist countries are developing into this direction
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a bit like this in china too
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes censoring everything and watching over every move of over 1 billion people and punish them for every misstep
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes, that is happening...
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats oppression for ure
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:29] Nasty Calamity is online.
[13:29] Al Michigan: like this one dude, what s his name,   joe biden..
[13:29] Al Michigan: he is as corrupt as hell, he uses Ukraine the put us tax dollars straight in his pockets by the millions.
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that name I've heard a few times
[13:29] CB Axel: Biden did no such thing.
[13:29] herman Bergson: Let's keep US politics out here, Al....
[13:30] Al Michigan: yes he did CB
[13:30] Al Michigan: okay!  lol
[13:30] CB Axel: Fine. Believe what you want.
[13:31] Al Michigan: yes that is the problem , more and more we believe what we want, because the old fashioned press is disappeared
[13:31] herman Bergson: Major issue here is this weird event that only democracy and capitalism appeared to be the only feasible systems left
[13:31] herman Bergson: and besides that....that communist countries have adopted this system...to some extend....
[13:32] herman Bergson: and that at this moment the US has dropped out of the power relations in this world....China is taking over
[13:32] herman Bergson: it has more diplomatic posts today all over the world than the US
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): al is writing a novel:)
[13:34] herman Bergson: His memoirs, I guess :-)
[13:35] herman Bergson: A lot of Americans write books these days.....
[13:35] CB Axel: Too many write books.
[13:35] herman Bergson smiles
[13:36] Al Michigan: but, but,.. the free market model and all, gives way more possibilities to  bribes and corruption to certain groups industrial groups, then communists countries(maffia connexions) So it is very lucrativ for industrialist to  corrupt a ''socialistic'' country, after  demanding the us to bomb everything  back to the stone age, ... all  support money for rebuilding will be stolen by the politicians, and industrialists that were involved or get involved, all  the money will flow in the pockets off politicians and their  industrial friends, and the ppl  will never see 1 dollar, see Libya and all
[13:36] herman Bergson: was my impression too, CB...^_^
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): jeez...al
[13:37] Al Michigan: i was mild...
[13:37] herman Bergson: I guess your statement is a little too broad to come up with proof and evidence, Al....
[13:38] herman Bergson: That is a problem in many discussions....
[13:38] Al Michigan: well,  look  how  biden is filling his pockets.
[13:38] CB Axel: I think you're confusing Biden with Trump. :)
[13:38] Al Michigan: this is so ... clear how this is going.
[13:38] herman Bergson: A beloved stand of certain politicians.....it is all based on hearsay....
[13:38] Al Michigan: nonono, biden.
[13:39] Al Michigan: do you know that hunter biden is  friend with the biggest criminals in the Ukraine?
[13:39] Al Michigan: not just some, no  the biggest.
[13:39] herman Bergson: I am sorry AL, but if something illegal happened regarding the conduct of any Biden....we need to see the proof, like we see it in the conduct of Mr. Trump
[13:40] Al Michigan: indeed, i agree  fully here.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Is it illegal be  be friends with other persons?
[13:40] Al Michigan: no, but see, tell me who your friends are, and i tell you who you are,.... that s all
[13:41] herman Bergson: Maybe he is to get them away from criminal behavior....teach them about Jesus...
[13:41] Al Michigan: yeah both in front of  the fire, cozy  reading  the bibles psalms
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:42] CB Axel: Now you're confusing him with Pence.
[13:42] herman Bergson: yes...who knows....
[13:42] herman Bergson smiles
[13:42] herman Bergson: No..Pence may participate too CB :-)
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:43] Al Michigan: this is a problem, indeed, i wanted to look to the logics, and add to logical thinking, but see, there so a difference between you all and mine,  i take a lot of time  looking for news and trying to  check it, also possible, that in the end, you see patterns, they might not be true, but it s hard for me to  concentrate on logical thinking, and not get distracted.
[13:43] herman Bergson: The remarks of AL at least show how mass media and internet control our thinking
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well these have great power indeed and its a 2 edged sword
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): can be ued for both good and evil
[13:44] Ciska Riverstone is online.
[13:44] herman Bergson: Indeed Bejiita...
[13:45] herman Bergson: But just see how we already take the use of Internet for granted....
[13:45] CB Axel: I check the news, too. I look for legitimate sources who have told the truth in the past.
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just like electricity and computers in general
[13:45] herman Bergson: Just think about the rise of radio in the early 1920s.....how information was distributed in those days...
[13:45] Al Michigan: to me you see totally biased, you accept  that biden is an angel, trying to get ppl on the right path, but see for your self on the net,  joe biden  was visiting his voters in this district, and this old man asked him( from the public) i am not saying any wrong had happened, but what is the real story off your son, because they say you installed him there. The reaction of you biden tells the whole story.
[13:46] Al Michigan: he is not an angel. he hides stuff.
[13:46] herman Bergson: then the visualization of the information in the late 1950s by television....
[13:46] CB Axel: I don't think Biden is an angel, but I'll believe him over anything Trump says.
[13:46] Al Michigan: hi is not protecting his son. he is protecting himself.
[13:46] Al Michigan: so then going from there, you ll  find out what he is actually protecting.
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the most I know about him are the comparisons of biden and bidet
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:46] CB Axel: LOL, Bejiita.
[13:47] Al Michigan: trump is a second car salesman.
[13:47] herman Bergson: Why should we be interested is some Biden person here...this is a philosophy class :-)
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): esp here in Sweden
[13:47] Al Michigan: i try to talk about bias
[13:47] Al Michigan: in the convo here.
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Joe Biden / Jo, biden! (Yes the bidet!)
[13:47] herman Bergson: What philosophical bias do you mean AL?
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol Bejiita:)
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:48] CB Axel: People no longer listen to legitimate news sources. They prefer to get their "news" from anyone with a website or Twitter account.
[13:48] CB Axel: No one checks sources anymore.
[13:49] herman Bergson: Yes...very weird behavior, CB
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sadly no
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and Trump continues polluting twitter like an open sewer on full flow
[13:49] herman Bergson: That gives me the belief that the US is a lost cause in international politics these days....
[13:49] Al Michigan: i said before the papers are no longer there, they  are propaganda outlets, it s clear how you see they wanted to  get trump out
[13:49] herman Bergson: You ar eno longer taken serious
[13:49] Al Michigan: but no one sees  what the democrates are doing.
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, it just about lies and shit talk it seems today
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like toddlers in a sandbox
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): noting serious indeed
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and that is a HUGE problem when it comes to the mightiest in the world
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): behaving like that
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): behaving
[13:51] Al Michigan: indeed
[13:51] herman Bergson: That's obvious AL, Mr. Trump doesn't belong on the position he occupies now from a moral and professional point of view
[13:51] herman Bergson: the man is not capable
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least he havent caused WW3 to beak out
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YET
[13:52] herman Bergson: I really have been afraid of that Bejiita!
[13:52] Al Michigan: I agree he is a danger, he made the world a very dangerous place, he kicked usa 8 years back in time, it 16  , because it ll be 8 more years to repair,.. i agree that.
[13:52] Al Michigan: but remember that Hillary Clinton would ve started the war right away
[13:52] Al Michigan: and this war would ve been here already
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well none of them were really great alternatives indeed
[13:52] CB Axel: Trump has been a con man his whole life. He should have been in jail for decades and not in the White House.
[13:53] Al Michigan: hilary clinton is a person wit an empty skull , totally mean , and laughing about suffering.
[13:53] herman Bergson: that is speculation AL, doesn't belong in a philosophy class
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he should have been in a white padded asylum cell welded shut
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but at least we are still here, and no great war seems lingering so far and im not very worried at moment
[13:54] CB Axel: I've hated that son of a bitch since the 70's. So, before it was cool to hate him.
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I hope it will stay that way
[13:54] Al Michigan: trump being a bad preident is also  speculation, because the democrates had tried to block him every ay, no one knows what he could have achieved.
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and that all will sort out in the end
[13:54] Al Michigan: what did you mean by liberal, herman , in the opening statement?
[13:55] herman Bergson: Let's drop American politics....we can go on for ever otherwise
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trumps wet dream is to make fossil fuel the ONLY source of energy
[13:55] CB Axel: He had all 3 branches of the government for 2 years. Congress isn't blocking him. The Senate has blocked every bill the House has passed. Please stop trying to tell me what's going on in my own country.
[13:55] Al Michigan: but still what did you mean with  liberal, herman?
[13:55] herman Bergson: What I wanted to tell you is, that  this is the last lecture of this project...
[13:55] CB Axel: You're right, Herman. I'm sorry.
[13:55] CB Axel: AI will never change his mind and i sure as hell won't change mine.
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I have to go..i'm tired
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its been an interesting journey for sure
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this project
[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): have a goodnight:))
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok Cu beetje
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): sorry herman
[13:56] CB Axel: By, Beertje. Good night.
[13:56] CB Axel: Are we taking a break after today?
[13:56] bergfrau Apfelbaum: good night Beertje:-)
[13:56] herman Bergson: The basic belief of the liber is, that you can achieve what you want, and will achieve everything you want, by your own efforts
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the conclusion can be that we brought both good and bad progress through the century
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): up to today
[13:57] herman Bergson: Indeed we did Bejiita....
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but the good will hopefully win
[13:57] herman Bergson: from good medicine to A-bombs
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:57] herman Bergson: and all that in just one century
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep
[13:58] herman Bergson: There has changed more in that century than in the previous 15.000 centuries
[13:58] CB Axel: It was a wild one, for sure!
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:58] herman Bergson: Yes CB....very...
[13:58] herman Bergson: And then I am even not talking about the women :-))
[13:59] herman Bergson: Just the facts
[13:59] Al Michigan: but that is a problem in itself, for women a ot changed, but the rest of society didn't  with all the grave results imaginable.
[13:59] herman Bergson: So...let me thank you all again and dismiss class for the last time in 2019
[14:00] Al Michigan: well thank  you mr bergson!
[14:00] CB Axel: When will class start up again?
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well happy Christmas and new year all
[14:00] herman Bergson: A new start in early January in 2020 :-)
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu with a new great project after that
[14:00] CB Axel: Have you picked a new topic yet?
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa let him surprise us
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[14:00] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you Herman and class:-)
[14:01] CB Axel: Good idea, Bejiita. :)
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu all
[14:01] Al Michigan: bye!
[14:01] CB Axel: It will be like a late Christmas present.
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have some great weekends now
[14:01] herman Bergson: I have two possible topics on the shelf, CB :-)
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu around
[14:01] CB Axel: Welterusten, y'all.
[14:01] herman Bergson: Happy holidays to you all :-)
[14:01] Al Michigan: bye cb
[14:01] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you for your commitment Herman
[14:01] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[14:01] CB Axel: Thank you very much, Herman
[14:02] herman Bergson: My pleasure CB :-)

[14:02] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yeah Happy Holidays!

Monday, December 23, 2019

817; Concluding Steps.......

At least three important things, that happened in the 20th century are still shaping our days in the 21st century.
   
The first one is the development of science, the second is the "victory" of the free market and the third is the mass media and internet.

What was just beginning to emerge in science at the start of the 20th century, 
   
gained a power in the course of the century that no one could have predicted. 
   
The individual discoveries might have had great influence, but the most intellectually important development,
    
which has immeasurably contributed to the authority of science and which changed the image of man of himself,
   
was the extent to which science began to come together, the way the different disciplines told the same story from different perspectives. 
   
Physics and chemistry first came together, then physics and astronomy, then physics and geology 
   
and more recently physics and mathematics, even though they have always been close together. 
  
Economics and sociology came together in the same way. 
   
In the form of genetics, biology came together even more closely with linguistics, anthropology and archeology. 
  
Biology and physics have not yet come together in the sense that we do not yet understand how inert substances can combine to create life. 
  
But they have come together in the way in which physics and mathematics explain biological structures 
   
and then there is the fusion in the extended concept of evolution, where the story is told from the big bang
  
through the billions of years of history of the universe with the creation of galaxies, 
  
the solar system, the earth, the oceans and the continents, all the way to life itself 
  
and the spread of plants and animals on our planet. This is without a doubt the most powerful empirical-based idea ever developed.
  
Some like to see in this development the proof of white supremacy. 
   
This seed was planted in the first decades of the 20th century with its racism, anti-semitism and colonialism. But is there any grain of truth in this belief?
   
To get an original answer we could read "Guns, Germs and Steel" (1997) by Jared Diamond, professor of geography and physiology at the University of California, Los Angeles.
  
The book attempts to explain why Eurasian and North African civilizations have survived and conquered others, 
  
while arguing against the idea that Eurasian hegemony is due to any form of Eurasian intellectual, moral, or inherent genetic superiority.
  
Diamond argues that the gaps in power and technology between human societies originate primarily in environmental differences.
   
In other words, that the whites did it, is simply a coincidence and not a proof of any superiority in any respect.
   
Thank you for your attention...


The Discussion

[13:32] herman Bergson: I can give you an example.....
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:32] herman Bergson: the route East - West is much easier on this globe than the route South north
[13:33] herman Bergson: For instance....`from India to Greece....
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): is it about temperature?
[13:33] herman Bergson: Aristotles logic may very well be influenced by Indian logicians
[13:33] herman Bergson: Too, I guess, Beertje
[13:34] herman Bergson: Take Africa..... to go north means that you run into a desert
[13:34] herman Bergson: Besides that,,,Africa is surrounded by oceans on three sides
[13:35] herman Bergson: the Whites just happen to live in the most favorable circumstances, I guess
[13:36] Laz Dresler is offline.
[13:36] CB Axel: It's easy to see why Africa is isolated from the rest of the world.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Yes, CB...
[13:36] CB Axel: It's says a lot about the ancient people who migrated from there.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Take the Arabic World....
[13:37] herman Bergson: There all intellectual and scientific development was killed around 1100 due to Islam
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and now thy are back to middle ages :(
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): time goes backwards there it seems
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sad story
[13:37] herman Bergson: It created the conflict between soenites and shiites...
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they were indeed pioneers in things like math
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and chemistry
[13:38] herman Bergson: they were Bejiita...!
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): our number, the word algebra and alkali are all arabic
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): number
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): s
[13:38] herman Bergson: Most interesting is that Iran is mainly shiitish...the party  in Islam that "tolerated" science...
[13:39] herman Bergson: so now they have nuclear capacities
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): tolerated?
[13:39] CB Axel: Hmm. Maybe fundamentalist religions aren't all bad. lol
[13:39] herman Bergson: yes Beertje....they had a more liberal approach toward science
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): only for man I guess
[13:40] herman Bergson: I don't think that shiites are fundamentalists
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): unless the fundamentalists are only gonna make use of this science to bomb the planet to cosmic dust
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but I doubt it
[13:40] CB Axel: That's why they have a nuclear bomb.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but one fact is that the rulers of Iran have made the place a hell for the people
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): since khomeini
[13:41] CB Axel: Those who "tolerate" science have the capacity to blow up the world.
[13:41] herman Bergson: I don't think so, CB....
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): science is much more than making bombs
[13:41] herman Bergson: It is a nice idea to blow up the world...but it means your are blowing up your own world as well
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well the most logical thing is that they are gonna make power plants out of it
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the thing is that Iran have lot if tech but the fundamentalists are holding them back
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): of
[13:42] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje...that has the previous century shown indeed
[13:43] herman Bergson: Eventually science will prevail in this world and to reach that goal education has to prevail too
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:44] herman Bergson: That is my belief.....EDUCATION
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:44] CB Axel: Yay!
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and away with all the hocus pocus!
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and on with FACTS!
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): how it really is
[13:44] herman Bergson: Just imagine all people on this earth, that read the blog of our class...
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): then the government has to invest in good education
[13:45] herman Bergson: That is a marginal debate Beertje....
[13:45] herman Bergson: All over the world there has to be good education...
[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): for girls and boys
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I educate me all time, internet is a huge resource, which is why these fundamentalist maniacs tries everythig to stop it in their nations
[13:46] herman Bergson: and that is one of the legacies of the 20th century.....education by internet
[13:47] herman Bergson: Porque yo hable EspaƱol ahora...?
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I've even learned operating particle accelerators through the internet, remote operated the LHC a while when it was starting up
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): VERY interesting
[13:47] herman Bergson: hablo
[13:47] herman Bergson: Simply because I  used an internet course...
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): learned a lot about both the machines and particle/nuclear physics and theory
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and I learn my game development and programming mostly through youtube and similar channels
[13:48] herman Bergson: yes..like you Bejiita...our Particle nerd...if I may say so :-)))
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): LETS SMASH EM ON!
[13:48] herman Bergson: education.....
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i learned english here  in SL
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and some blender:)
[13:48] herman Bergson: Indeed Beertje....even without taking a course!
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but that's internet too
[13:49] herman Bergson: But like I can read Spanish books, you have access to a lot of English sources....
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the latest Belnder 2.81 is awesome, the sculpt tools are awesome
[13:49] herman Bergson: so we can learn new things, we couldn't learn before
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): got a few new tools there
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i will try that Bejiita:)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however I can't find a Makehuman plugin working with it
[13:50] herman Bergson: ohh Bejiita....I need to update!
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to quickly make rigged characters even I learn it from scratch now
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have some cousins waiting for a game
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): 2.81 is much different than 2.79
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes GUIis way different, more maya like
[13:51] CB Axel: You're building your own humans now?
[13:51] CB Axel: :)
[13:51] herman Bergson: As you see....these days...it doesn't need to be whites only....far from that even...
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Makehuan is a tool to make ready rigged humanoid and the ONLY free such tool
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but only worked with blender 2.79
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): up to
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I can't find an import tool for blender 2.8
[13:52] herman Bergson: We'll work on it Bejiita ^_^
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for the MHX2 format and developments seem to have stalled
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but ill look o
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said, mu cousins wait for a little game of themselves
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that I make for them
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in their own house
[13:52] herman Bergson: Well...guess we reached the end of our discussion :-)
[13:53] herman Bergson: unless you have that final remark or question.....
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's very healthy to learn new things
[13:53] herman Bergson: that might save the world....:-)
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we stay young doing that
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): time to learn some more about animation in Unity that I have a bit of issues with now
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): making a driving range demo for our Kickoff later at work
[13:54] herman Bergson: haven't seen a wrinkle on your face in 10 years here, Beertje :-)
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it have become tradition that I make these
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:54] herman Bergson: So....thank you all..you young of heart....
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu around
[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...:-)
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): smiles
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:54] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting a always
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and fun
[13:55] herman Bergson: thank you bejiita :-)
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:55] CB Axel: I'll see you all Thursday.
[13:55] herman Bergson: Ok CB...
[13:55] SAHUD 10.0.34 BETA (WEAR ME!): Exit SIM: CB Axel
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you very much! herman and class :o)


Tuesday, December 10, 2019

816; A Call in the Desert.....

Some economists were like a calling in the desert. In the last three decades of the  20th century we have seen the "victory" of the market economy.
   
The collapse of the communist systems was only an extra reinforcement to continue on the road of neoliberalism, endless economic growth and consumerism.
  
Those who were calling in the desert, were heard but mainly ignored. One of them was Amartya Sen.
  
Amartya Kumar Sen, born 3 November 1933, is an Indian economist and philosopher, who since 1972 has taught and worked in the United Kingdom and the United States.
   
He stimulated the study of the "welfare economy", that is to say an economy that looks beyond the operation of the market to also investigate the phenomenon of poverty and the concept of "need".
   
Two ideas from Sen had a broad relevance and both contributed to him winning the Nobel Prize for economic in 1998. 
   
The first idea consists of the combination of economics and ethics. Sen had observed a curious contradiction: 
   
many people, who are not poor, are nevertheless interested in the problem of poverty and its approach, 
   
not because they think it is more productive to tackle poverty, but because poverty is wrong. In other words, individuals often behave ethically by not putting their self-interest first.
   
In his book "On Ethics and Economics" (1987), Sen cites the well-known game "Prisoners" Dilemma, which Richard Dawkins also discusses in "The Selfish Gene". 
   
Sen writes that cooperation may be preferable in the evolutionary context, but in the industrial or commercial environment, 
   
the selfish strategy is theoretically the one that most benefits the individual from that person's point of view. 
   
But in practice various cooperation strategies are always developed because people have opinions about the rights of other people in addition to their own rights.
   
They have a sense of community and they want to hold on to that. In other words, people have a generally ethical view of life that is not purely selfish.
    
He believed that this discovery has consequences for the economic organization of society, the tax system, financial assistance to the poor and the recognition of social needs.
     
This is strongly against neoliberal philosophies. Take Ayn Rand...what does she hear here....ALTRUISM. That can't be.
    
Ayn Rand rejects altruism, the view that self-sacrifice is the moral ideal. She argues that the ultimate moral value, for each human individual, is his or her own well-being. 
    
Since selfishness as she understands it is serious, rational, principled concern with one's own well-being, 
   
it turns out to be a prerequisite for the attainment of the ultimate moral value. For this reason, Rand believes that selfishness is a virtue.
    
Or take Charles Murray. Murray, working at the American Enterprise Institute, a right-wing think tank in Washington, D.C., wrote a controversial but well-documented book entitled "Losing Ground" in 1984. 
    
Murray feels more akin to "popular wisdom" than to the wisdom of intellectuals and social scientists. 
    
Folk wisdom has three main theses: people respond to positive . 
    
People do not work particularly hard by themselves and are not particularly moral - in the absence of corrective influences, 
    
they will avoid working and behave in an amoral manner; people must be responsible for their actions, 
    
whether they are also responsible in some ultimate philosophical or biochemical sense cannot be a topic of discussion if a society is to function.
    
This kind of thinking has overshadowed Sen and others, is favorite among lawmakers and has made the market economy a "success".
   
If I speak for my own country, the Netherlands, the result is after 30 years of liberals in our government, an increasing breakdown of the social sector.
   
All institutions, that are based on mutual solidarity, on the will to spread and share the costs, based on income,
     
like healthcare, police and security, education, elderly care, youth Services, show today the right-wing orthodoxy from 1975-1990 as a dead end.
       
We must recreate post-war society with its social solidity and the strongest shoulders that want to bear the heaviest burdens, 
     
not out of nostalgia but because this was the more civilized time with social and moral progress that came to an end when the mini-Middle Ages of selfishness, greed and hypocrisy started.
    
Thank you for your attention....
   




The Discussion

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:24] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:24] herman Bergson: P.S. Social solidity should be social solidarity :-))
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you think we can go back to social solidarity?
[13:25] Max Chatnoir is offline.
[13:25] herman Bergson: I don't know Beertje
[13:25] PearlsOh: You can't have social solidarity when you have globalism
[13:25] PearlsOh: they work against each other
[13:26] herman Bergson: Maybe so indeed PearlsOh
[13:26] Al Michigan: i heard say  ppl only choosing for their own advantage are easier to govern as ppl that are supporting each other.
[13:26] herman Bergson: You really think so Al???
[13:27] Al Michigan: yes, because ppl only choosing these options are more predictable!
[13:27] herman Bergson: By looking only for your own advantage, might create a lot of enemies and jealous people for you
[13:27] Al Michigan: and easier to manipulate by tax reforming
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Herman
[13:28] PearlsOh: if you lure with with money or the promise of money, capitalism has worn down the ethics/spirit of western countries, it's become its own form of communism, chase money, be a debt slave and work like cattle in the global economy.
[13:29] Al Michigan: yeah!
[13:29] herman Bergson: I still believe that we have to share our resources  with eachother....related to the income you have and what you can afford
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:29] Al Michigan: yeah, i think  so too
[13:30] Al Michigan: but within a group that ism solidair with each other
[13:30] herman Bergson: A problem might be the increasing gap between the rich and the poor an d the fact that the rich control everything...and thence want to keep what they have
[13:30] PearlsOh: I will share but only with people who want the same future as me.  It's a mind game and guilt gaslighting to socially pressure people to share with people who are hostile or opposition of some sort.
[13:32] herman Bergson: It is our democratic system that should help to find a balance in that PearlsOh
[13:32] Al Michigan: yeah , like in holland i have to give money to ppl looking to me with eyes full off hate.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Why would they hate you Al?
[13:33] Al Michigan: no idea, but i am white...
[13:33] Al Michigan: and i  do not look like a total looser.
[13:33] herman Bergson: And those hateful weren't white?
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why should they hate you then?
[13:33] Al Michigan: indeed.
[13:33] Al Michigan: why?
[13:34] herman Bergson: Guess you were in Amsterdam? :-))
[13:34] Al Michigan: more or less, yes
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): with one leg in A'dam?
[13:34] PearlsOh: democracy is a product of sorts though, it's socially engineered by Media, people just buy the lasted garbage they're fed by media and social engineering
[13:34] Al Michigan: i live 10 minutes walk from adam, if i open the window, i hear its traffic
[13:35] herman Bergson: the media are a problem indeed PearsOh
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i live in the Netherlands too, but I haver never seen hate in the eyes of ppl
[13:35] herman Bergson: Neither have I, Beertje...and I am white...you have a nice tan :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I'm as white as a milkbottle
[13:36] herman Bergson: ^_^
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:36] PearlsOh: I don't live in Holland, but I lived in a black suburb for 15 years and with out fail I got called a White  C*nt " in the street about once a week and held up trying to get home at night...  that's hatred
[13:37] herman Bergson: but to get back to the media....the US is governed by Twitter these days for instance
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for obvious reason
[13:37] Al Michigan: indeed, the reasons are obvious
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): White  C*nt " ..what do you mean by that?
[13:37] herman Bergson: Doesn't sound good, PearlsOh
[13:38] herman Bergson: Beertje  :-))))
[13:38] herman Bergson:it meaqns:  Wit kutwijf
[13:38] PearlsOh: mind of I swear, Beertje.. c*nt = cunt
[13:38] PearlsOh: white cunt
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ah ok, we have those too
[13:38] PearlsOh: it was disgusting
[13:38] PearlsOh: hatred
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to me it souds like racism + sexual harassment
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 0 hate yes
[13:38] herman Bergson: yes I can imagine
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): =
[13:39] PearlsOh: racism, men got called it too
[13:39] herman Bergson: But the question here is..is it a minority or a majority phenomenon in your country?
[13:40] herman Bergson: I mean...in the Netherlands we have such individuals too
[13:40] PearlsOh: So why would I support them?  Or want to share with them, and don't say it was only a few of them, it was constant for years and even little kids did it.
[13:40] Al Michigan: yeah , a lot!!
[13:40] Jenny Core (jenny.kaos) is offline.
[13:40] CB Axel: Blacks have a different history in the US than in Europe.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Not really CB
[13:40] Al Michigan: so, herman , why are they acting the same way?
[13:40] Al Michigan: in holland
[13:40] herman Bergson: The black people here from Suriname are also former slaves
[13:41] Al Michigan: but this is also appliieng to white ppl in holland
[13:41] PearlsOh: yeh the common thing is that blacks and whites do not get along, no matter how much the globalists try to force us, we will never get along, because both races are being manipulated
[13:41] CB Axel: Really? Africans were kidnapped from their homelands and forced to live in the Netherlands as farm animals?
[13:41] Al Michigan: no never, herman, so why  are they acting full off hate.
[13:42] PearlsOh: and sold to slavers by blacks in Africa,  when you just blame Whites in America you don't tell the full story.
[13:42] PearlsOh: it is lying by omission
[13:42] CB Axel: That's true, PearlsOh.
[13:42] PearlsOh: and that is social engineering
[13:42] PearlsOh: as it is fed to you all by media
[13:42] PearlsOh: which you obey
[13:42] herman Bergson: They were kidnapped from their homelands and live like farm animals in Suriname
[13:42] PearlsOh: It's happened to all races
[13:43] PearlsOh: this black slavery thing is out of propertion, false and biased media propaganda
[13:43] Al Michigan: take white ppl! the first slaves n usa where white europeans.
[13:43] PearlsOh: and still the guilt hasn't made blacks and whites get a long
[13:43] Al Michigan: indeed!
[13:44] Al Michigan: also if you was born  in those times as a white boy on land off the noble classes, you was their property  your whole life||!!!
[13:44] PearlsOh: because it is false and people underneath, their instinct, they know they're being condescended too and manipulated
[13:44] Al Michigan: you was never  1  minute off your life free.
[13:45] herman Bergson: To be true...this race thing is a weird issue....
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree
[13:45] herman Bergson: we people only differ for 0.1% in DNA from each other.....
[13:45] PearlsOh: it is an dit is taboo to challenge the narrative, and it needs it, it's good you let it be spoken about here
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there are no races even we look different
[13:45] PearlsOh: yes there are races..
[13:45] herman Bergson: there actually are no races...just some physiological differences
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just skin color
[13:46] Al Michigan: sure there are races!!!
[13:46] herman Bergson: No Al....not based on DNA research
[13:46] PearlsOh: no, that's just more lies you've all bought and only since WW2
[13:46] herman Bergson: that shows that we are a huge mix of a lot of origins
[13:46] CB Axel: Cut people open and we're all the same.
[13:46] Al Michigan: But we do not  know much about DNA!, most dna we have , we do not even know what it is doing!!!
[13:46] herman Bergson: Indeed CB
[13:47] Al Michigan: cb axel, that is also not true!
[13:47] Al Michigan: there is a hug different between a monkey  and an ape.
[13:47] CB Axel: How many people have you seen cut open? Where are the differences?
[13:47] Al Michigan: wrong line. there is huge difference between a ape and a human
[13:47] herman Bergson: We are talking about homo Sapiens here Al :-)
[13:47] herman Bergson: quite a mean ape himself ^_^
[13:47] CB Axel: I said people.
[13:47] Al Michigan: what about jews then?
[13:48] PearlsOh: Who told you all this?  There are differences, different races have different diseases, physical assets and fails
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw7FhU-G1_Q )
[13:48] Al Michigan: if all ppl are the same,  it would mean jews are no humans.
[13:48] herman Bergson: What about them, Al.....DNA differs for 0.1% like all other men
[13:48] CB Axel: Good point, PearlsOh
[13:48] Al Michigan: well you can be jewish, only if some dna patterns  were given to  you  along the lines of the women.
[13:49] CB Axel: I don't follow that, AI. If we are all the same then we are all human.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): religion is not a race cause its not genetic
[13:49] PearlsOh: Anyway races and if it is easier for you to understand it as cultures, then fine..  do not get along, are you wanting to keep forcing us, keep the wars going to fund some globalist monsters,
[13:49] herman Bergson: Good point Bejiita
[13:49] Al Michigan: jews are ppl. humans, just like us, but there are dna differences
[13:50] Al Michigan: but that doesn't mean anything.
[13:50] Al Michigan: we do not know  much about dna
[13:50] herman Bergson: Right PearlsOh...it is better to talk about CULTURES....and power politics.....and the fight for resources like oil etc
[13:50] Al Michigan: yes pearl is right!
[13:50] Laila Schuman: YES
[13:50] PearlsOh: Why Herman, race and culture are same thing
[13:50] PearlsOh: race isn't a dirty wird
[13:51] herman Bergson: It is biologically not defendable...
[13:51] PearlsOh: we need to desensitized from the propaganda and fear in us it's caused and talk about our races
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: what is fearful about it?
[13:52] Al Michigan: yeah tell me!
[13:52] herman Bergson: DNA research has shown that we all come from Africa, to begin with....
[13:52] PearlsOh: no everyone agrees with that herman, I am my own race.. you can't ever take that from me, I will never be another race or no race.
[13:52] Al Michigan: i do not believe that herman
[13:52] herman Bergson: The human DNA is form ONE source....
[13:52] Laila Schuman: yes
[13:52] PearlsOh: that we need to soften it to culture, that people are scared it is racist to talk about race
[13:52] CB Axel: My race is human. I am of the human race, and that's it.
[13:52] PearlsOh: how can it be?
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: the problem starts when you want to use your race "to get something out of it"
[13:53] herman Bergson: No PearlOh...it is not about racism....because racism isn't a biological but a cultural phenomenon
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: thats where the fear is rooted
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:54] herman Bergson: So it is politics, Ciska....culture
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: its in the end about power
[13:54] Al Michigan: if i cut open a pig, i smell  a human. If i cut open a monkey i smell some thing completely different and it looks different as well, so there ain't no link between an ape and a human.
[13:54] CB Axel: So you don't believe in evolution?
[13:54] PearlsOh: saying your one global race is racism, you are, and I don't know if you realize ti or not, but racially demeaning everyone who is their actual race.
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): have you ever opened a monkey All?
[13:54] PearlsOh: very good point Al
[13:54] herman Bergson: I guess you don't acceptDarwins findings, Al?
[13:55] Al Michigan: no i do not accept one word off his theories.
[13:55] PearlsOh: This is propaganda after ww2 this globalist hype
[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: well why not be your race - as long as you do not want to get something extrra out of it Pearl? i'm sure no one cares.
[13:55] CB Axel: Evolution is post WW2 propaganda?
[13:55] Laila Schuman: do you actually know his theories, AI
[13:56] herman Bergson: Indeed Ciska....
[13:56] Laila Schuman: and data to counteract them
[13:56] herman Bergson: It is like claiming I am a Dutchman, you are a German or Austrian....
[13:56] PearlsOh: this spin on I tis yes, this isn't science it is globalist propaganda, of course we're not all the same one race, look at the differences..
[13:56] Al Michigan: yes, they prove how one bird became an eagle and the other an owl. they do not explain how we  humans started to be here.
[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: well of course there is science
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: you do not have to be interessted in it
[13:57] PearlsOh: who's science?
[13:57] Laila Schuman: and dinosaurs became birds
[13:57] herman Bergson: we're not of the same culture, I'd say PearlsOh :-)
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: and is must not threaten you
[13:57] PearlsOh: it's like the global warming science, there's scientists on both sides of argument, but one side is shunned and silenced,
[13:57] CB Axel: What science are you looking at?
[13:57] Al Michigan: but see, in this era, science is broken down ,
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if I listen to you all, I think it's hard to live together and take care to each other
[13:57] PearlsOh: that's not how science is supposed to work
[13:57] Al Michigan: no one can believe them anymore.
[13:58] Laila Schuman: are you (anyone) actually friends with a person of another race?
[13:58] Laila Schuman: and what did you learn... or not.... in that friendship
[13:58] Ciska Riverstone: how is science supposed to work? -all of our history science differentiated and by that brought progress...
[13:58] herman Bergson: Look at it from the other side, Beeertje....we are able to have a decent conversation here yet
[13:59] Al Michigan: our government is actually saying to   study groups that do research for the government, what the outcomes must be!!! just like when one Adolf told the scientist to prove the whites were superior.
[13:59] PearlsOh: scroll back to my post on living in a black suburb for 15 years, Laila
[13:59] Laila Schuman: or the oil and gas companies that said there was no climate change
[13:59] Laila Schuman: follow the money
[14:00] Laila Schuman: I trust you, Pearl
[14:00] CB Axel: So, those people who called you a white cunt were your friends? How well did you know them?
[14:00] PearlsOh: exactly follow the money to the carbon taxes and solar industries.
[14:00] PearlsOh: I didn't know them, they did it based off my skin
[14:00] PearlsOh: in street
[14:01] Al Michigan: yeah  why are all the meteorologist telling another story? why  are they sinced? why do you never their point of view?
[14:01] CB Axel: Laila asked if you had friends of another race.
[14:01] Al Michigan: i had a girlfriend, she was black.
[14:01] Al Michigan: sinced=  silenced?
[14:01] Laila Schuman: better than following the money to deaths caused by the affects that climate change will bring.... check out the frequency of hurricanes, tornados and fires...... lately..... would rather get the carbon tax.... that is money given to the PEOPLE..... and paid by the polluters
[14:02] CB Axel: I've heard plenty of meteorologists say there is climate change.
[14:02] Al Michigan: cannot be.
[14:02] Laila Schuman: what cannot be AL
[14:02] herman Bergson: I guess we are a little bit off topic now :-)
[14:02] PearlsOh: I have had, but I moved in the white flight, now I am in a white area and safe again, is that wrong?  And Asking personal questions as if I have had friends of other races is just that tired old thing of making it personal to attack me not my argument
[14:02] Al Michigan: in holland the temperatures are measured by the KNMI
[14:02] PearlsOh: and not a nice game
[14:03] Al Michigan: they replaced their  observation points for temperatures and all, these places give a rise in temperatures off 2 degrees just because the other  location, did they tell  this to every one|?
[14:03] Al Michigan: no!
[14:03] Laila Schuman: is it the color of the skin that makes someone dangerous... or is it being sidelined when they try to get a job and support their family... living in poverty.... and with no end in sight... maybe that is what we should fear... not color
[14:04] Laila Schuman: AL.... no....
[14:04] herman Bergson: Indeed Laila.....
[14:04] herman Bergson: But as I said...too much off topic
[14:04] CB Axel: Asking if you have friends of other races is not an attack.
[14:04] herman Bergson: Time to thank you all again for your great contributions to our debate
[14:05] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[14:05] Ciska Riverstone: thanx everyone
[14:05] Al Michigan: well i have had a black girlfriend for 10 years. i
[14:05] Laila Schuman: my husband works for the long term EPA... we KNOW the scientists who are studying Climate Change.... and he understands the scientific processes, vocabulary, intensity of examination.... and how , if you don't tell the truth in your reports you lose your reputation totally
[14:05] herman Bergson: I know we could go on forever....but I think we almost saved the world today
[14:05] PearlsOh: I know cuz there are no whites in poverty?    That's another falsehood, there are many white people in poverty.  Where I lived in the 80's and 90's a huge city the majority of it was impoverished white suburbs, with an inner city and one side of river well to do.
[14:05] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman. I need to go. See you next week.
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well cu all next time I hope
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[14:05] Laila Schuman: because the other scientists are savvy enough to understand what you write
[14:06] Al Michigan: unless we killed each other!
[14:06] herman Bergson: be  well CB:-)
[14:06] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) is online.
[14:06] herman Bergson: No killing in my class Al ! :-)
[14:06] Laila Schuman: oh come on Pearl.... you are fishing for reasons to disagree
[14:06] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Bejiita :-)
[14:06] PearlsOh: CB it is it is an attempt tp make it personal to and make the argument about me and not my idea
[14:06] Al Michigan: huh,... grrrrr!
[14:07] Al Michigan: yes! that s an old tric.
[14:07] herman Bergson: Sorry Al :-))
[14:07] PearlsOh: no Laila I am telling you a fact about the demographics of of my old city
[14:07] Laila Schuman: Chicago?
[14:07] Laila Schuman: New York?
[14:07] herman Bergson: In the US just like here there os poverty among the whole population...
[14:07] Laila Schuman: i have friends who are black....some i chat with daily
[14:08] Al Michigan: most blacks i know have more money as me.
[14:08] Ciska Riverstone: https://ncase.me/trust/
[14:08] Laila Schuman: it is our history that makes people afraid... back and forth....
[14:08] Al Michigan: i do not believe that.
[14:08] Ciska Riverstone: take care everyone
[14:08] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Ciska
[14:08] herman Bergson: See you, Ciska :-)
[14:08] Al Michigan: 50 years ago, black and white were better together as now. who had pitched us  against each other?????
[14:09] Laila Schuman: slave owners.... biased sheriffs.... ignorant ....i won't name them...but they are ignorant
[14:09] herman Bergson: Interesting question Al!
[14:09] Laila Schuman: Steve Bannon for one
[14:09] PearlsOh: yes, who is behind it all
[14:09] Al Michigan: sooo not!!!!!
[14:09] PearlsOh: globalists
[14:09] herman Bergson: and to what  purpose?????
[14:09] Al Michigan: it s not Bannon!
[14:09] Al Michigan: what about Obama?
[14:09] PearlsOh: to globalize us, take our identity, race, cultures and make us work cattle
[14:10] Al Michigan: what about the globalist  indeed!
[14:10] herman Bergson: that sound a little silly to me, Al
[14:10] Al Michigan: obama?
[14:10] Laila Schuman: he is doing this all over the world.... read Fuc*ed....
[14:10] herman Bergson: yes
[14:10] Al Michigan: i ll send you my reasoning!
[14:10] Al Michigan: but not tonight!
[14:10] Al Michigan: okay
[14:10] herman Bergson: ok...I am interested...
[14:10] Laila Schuman: about Cambridge Annylitical?
[14:10] Al Michigan: deal! i ll send you
[14:11] Laila Schuman: bannon is there from beginning to end
[14:11] PearlsOh: the "rigth wing" are only slower versions of the "left wing" it's all about globalizing us, right wing use money, left wing use social justice, both are dead ends
[14:11] herman Bergson: Can it be just ONE  person, Laila....or is it a movement in a culture
[14:11] Al Michigan: i agree pearl
[14:12] Laila Schuman: yes... it is the culture and money is smack in the middle of it
[14:12] herman Bergson: and what is the right end,, PearlsOh in your opinion?
[14:12] PearlsOh: resisting globalism
[14:12] Al Michigan: i agree
[14:12] PearlsOh: what are we all going to do when we have a one world government
[14:12] herman Bergson: ok...but I have to check what globalism really means
[14:13] PearlsOh: and it tells us to do something we don't like, how can we resist then
[14:13] Laila Schuman: it is a catch word... and distracting
[14:14] Laila Schuman: do most people have any real concept... in their deep emotional self.... what globalization means?
[14:14] herman Bergson: Oh..just to keep things clear....:-))))
[14:14] PearlsOh: no it's a real thing, Laila..  one world governments, one world people,  tho capitalism or communism, it's the same outcome in the end
[14:14] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....^_^
[14:14] PearlsOh: lol
[14:14] Al Michigan: it is about taking away the boaders, what a culture keeps together is this boarder! because ppl  organise as a unity, with their own rules, and they want a boarder! so taking away the walls it breaks the culture, after   that, every one will have just one choice,... to  only think about his own interest,  like during the ww2
[14:14] Laila Schuman: Steve Bannon thinks that
[14:14] herman Bergson: No...doesn't mean "shut up"...lol
[14:14] PearlsOh: I've stood up to leave so far.
[14:15] PearlsOh: yes and all industry globalized, how then do you complain about a bad product when there is only one company left making it
[14:15] herman Bergson: Do you really believe that some try to establish ONE government for the whole world. PearlsOh?
[14:15] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you herman and class!! ... .see you on Thursday :-)
[14:15] Al Michigan: well, i do.
[14:15] PearlsOh: yes, Herman
[14:16] PearlsOh: in some form this is where we seem to be heading
[14:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no thursday Bergie
[14:16] herman Bergson: No Class on Thursday Bergie!
[14:16] Laila Schuman: if nobody can get along... how can that happen
[14:16] Al Michigan: indeed Laila
[14:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's Sinterklaasavond:)
[14:16] Al Michigan: ah of course
[14:16] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ahh no Thursday! ok
[14:16] herman Bergson: We here in the EU already have to face a BREXIT, PearlsOh
[14:16] PearlsOh: that's what I've been trying to say, we don't get along when we're forced on each other.
[14:16] Al Michigan: indeed the brits are sooooo different
[14:17] PearlsOh: good luck with that, Herman,
[14:17] herman Bergson: Not my problem PearlsOh :-)
[14:17] bergfrau Apfelbaum: #°*** BABA ***°#
[14:17] herman Bergson: Bye Bergie
[14:17] Laila Schuman: I need to head out... have work to do.... be well all...
[14:17] Al Michigan: thanks!
[14:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Laila
[14:17] herman Bergson: be well Laila :-)
[14:18] Al Michigan: bye herman!
[14:18] herman Bergson: Bye Al :-)

[14:18] PearlsOh: Yeh bye everyone, see u next time