We have to keep in mind, that economics as a science is not even close to the scientific qualitative level of rocket science.
Macroeconomics, the branch of economics concerned with large-scale or general economic factors, such as interest rates and national productivity, is based on assumptions.
Milton and Rose Friedman based their theories on what they considered to be the crucial insight of the Scotch Adam Smith,
the father of modern economy and writer of "The Wealth of Nations" (1776).
The crucial insight of Adam Smith was that both parties can benefit from barter/exchange, and that as long as the cooperation is strictly voluntary,
no barter/exchange will take place unless both parties benefit from it, for instance, I pay the baker for a bread. He the money; I the bread = win - win.
The free market economy therefore not only works, it also has an ethical basis, the ethics of freedom to act.
However, there was also a rival mindset among economists, where Friedman's confidence in the free market was not shared.
This basic assumption still controls our economic thinking and a serious flaw in it is for the sake of convenience
dismissed by the other assumption, that the problem I have in mind is easily reduced, when you have good working markets.
Just imagine. What do you have to trade in exchange, if you don't possess or produce anything? Only your labor force.
But what when you are a member of a society, based on the Adam Smith assumption and you possess nothing and you aren't able to work?
You may be a child, a mentally or physically disabled person or simply ill this month or you are too old to do heavy labor ?
And, by the way, if labor force is the only thing you have to trade, lucky you, but suppose you get paid too little to have a decent living?
Here we arrive at the point, which free market economics don't know how to handle: POVERTY
In "Free to Choose" (1980) by the Friemans there was little room for reflection on poverty; according to them, that would be drastically reduced if their system had all the space they need.
But this was just an assumption, maybe even wishful thinking, not based on any empirical evidence.
A man who seriously questioned the flaw of Adam's Smith assumption was Amartya Kumar Sen (1933), an Indian economist and philosopher,
who since 1972 has taught and worked in the United Kingdom and the United States. I'll talk about him in the next lecture.
Poverty might mean different things in different parts of the world and to different people, but it is largely defined as being unable to afford a minimum standard of living.
If the free market assumption and its beneficial effects were true, how can it be, that Thomas Piketty concluded in 2013,
that when the rate of return on capital (r) is greater than the rate of economic growth (g) over the long term,
the result is concentration of wealth, and this unequal distribution of wealth causes social and economic instability.
That is an academic way to say that in the present economic system, invented in the 20th century, mainly after World War II,
the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.....to be continued....
Thank you for your attention again....
The Discussion
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh
[13:20] :: Thank you for your attention again....
[13:20] ::
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): especially in some countries
[13:21] herman Bergson: Even in the richest counrtries Gemma
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think in every country there is some poverty
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): mostly yes
[13:21] herman Bergson: Sure Beertje.....
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes thats true
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i understand in some countiries they are "paying" a minimum fee to everyone
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ?
[13:22] herman Bergson: But the quitessential question here is....WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE GOVERNEMENT in the distribution of resources
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no one should have it like this
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): as jobs disappear
[13:22] CB Axel: I just heard about that being tried in, I believe, Kenya, Gemma.
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i thought there was a scandinavian country too
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): maybe not
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Finland?
[13:23] herman Bergson: We have a minimum wage in the Netherlands
[13:23] CB Axel: Could be. I just heard about it in an African country.
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): almost every day I go to my local shopping mall I see people (mostly from Romania ) sitting outside in the cold begging for money because their country don't care a shit about them
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we do too but it is so low
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): has not been raised in years!!
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no one should need to liv like that
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:23] CB Axel: I do think we need government regulation of business.
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some states are good
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): headed for 15.00 minimum
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): which is still low
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:24] herman Bergson: In the Netherlands it si raised every year, adjusted to the costs of living...
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is what we all need
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): too little to live and too much to die
[13:24] CB Axel: We need to regulate against monopolies and businesses banding together to set unnecessarily high prices for their goods.
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we need a new Robin Hood, thats what we need
[13:24] herman Bergson: This is the question....what is the responsibility of the government?
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or something sililar
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): similar
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): brb
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hb
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): does the government have a responsibility?
[13:25] herman Bergson: Oh yes.....
[13:26] herman Bergson: we delegated our authority to the government to organize the society, Beertje
[13:26] CB Axel: One minimum wage for a country as large as the US is a problem. US$15/hr is a barely adequate wage her in Iowa, but in New York City it's still a poverty wage.
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes CB...that is a problem
[13:26] herman Bergson: But you could make it relative to the costs of living per location
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): some ppl with jobs can't even pay all their bills here
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right cb
[13:27] herman Bergson: and maybe the big Mac has the same price all over the US....don't know :-)
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): need two jobs to survive
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): as jobs get more automated
[13:28] CB Axel: No. McDonald's prices vary according to location.
[13:29] CB Axel: A Big Mac costs more in Chicago than in Davenport.
[13:29] herman Bergson: Interesting....
[13:29] herman Bergson: There....so the minimum wage should be adjusted to that difference per location :-)
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): is that for all the food?
[13:30] herman Bergson: Very weird though that a big Mac is prized differently per stat or town
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its the taste that is the same I suppose
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if one has no money I wouldn't go to MacD
[13:30] herman Bergson: Guess so too Bejiita
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but try to buy nutricious food
[13:31] herman Bergson: No worries Beertje..it was only an example :-)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however can't confirm this as I only eat McDonnell's locally here and all other like burger king and other local ones here like MAX outperform them both on the burger and pommes which I think are soggy in comparison
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Brr...MacD :(((
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I can eat them but quality stated they are not very high compared to other brands
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but sure I can grab a cheeseburger now and then
[13:33] herman Bergson: Well, let's get back to the main theme.....how does free market economics deal with poverty
[13:33] CB Axel: The burgers are all the same everywhere, but rents and taxes vary across the county.
[13:33] herman Bergson: The problem is that it demands governemental interference....
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but will the government do that?
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they dont, the free market economics deal only with stock market revenue to the rich shareholders and company bosses in general plus ever increasig profit
[13:34] herman Bergson: Ah yes...CB...New York must be way more expensive than Davenport per square meter
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its them who are responsible for creatig the povertry
[13:34] herman Bergson: To answer your question Beertje ...THAT is politics....
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): internet going down
[13:35] herman Bergson: in other words...Republicans are rather unwilling to interfere, Democrates ar emore willing :-)
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) is offline.
[13:35] herman Bergson: oh dear...we have a casualty!
[13:36] herman Bergson: 911
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): 112
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ooow
[13:36] herman Bergson smiles
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (runs for defibrillator)
[13:36] herman Bergson: you can't reanimate an empty char Bejiita :-)
[13:36] herman Bergson: chair
[13:36] CB Axel: Winter storms are coming. They disrupt the internet sometimes.
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nope I was to late
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sighs
[13:37] CB Axel: Anyway, Republicans think businesses should not be regulated.
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes
[13:38] herman Bergson: macroeconomics shouldnt be regulated neither
[13:38] CB Axel: They think they should be allowed to sell inferior products at high prices to people who have no protections on the job.
[13:38] herman Bergson: or just a little bit
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if things want to be changed the democrates have to win
[13:39] herman Bergson: Let me give you another example...
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or is that too easy to say
[13:39] theo Velde is offline.
[13:39] herman Bergson: In the Netherlands we have had at least 15 years of (neo)liberal dominance in politics.....
[13:40] CB Axel: What people tend to forget is that it's taken over 200 years for the US to turn into the mess it is today. It's going to take longer than 1 or 2 presidential terms to fix it.
[13:40] herman Bergson: and now the whole social sector, healthcare, education, hospitals etc is slowly collapsing
[13:40] CB Axel: They think that a president is going to fix everything in 4 - 8 years.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Not your present one, CB....
[13:41] CB Axel: We can't rely on politicians to fix things. The American people need to fix it by electing statesmen not politicians.
[13:41] CB Axel: Our last president couldn't fix everything in the 8 years he was in charge.
[13:42] CB Axel: He tried, but because our Congress was packed with people who did everything they could to stop him, not much got done.
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): breaking things down goes much faster than building up
[13:42] herman Bergson: YEs...I must say it is sad to witness to see a country going down the drain...a country we believed in....
[13:42] herman Bergson: saw as an example....
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:43] herman Bergson: It has lost its glamour for me...
[13:43] CB Axel: But Americans keep voting for people who want to work for their own interests instead of those who elected them, so nothing changes.
[13:43] herman Bergson: Looks like a bunch of immoral selfish idiots now at the helm
[13:43] herman Bergson: China is already taking over in many places....
[13:44] CB Axel: Yes. I think maybe China will take the place of the US in the world.
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes in too many countries
[13:44] CB Axel: Unless Russia does. They're trying.
[13:44] herman Bergson: This Trump person hasn't the slightest idea of foreign politics and the American position in it
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well the only thing Trump wants is to boost his own money bin
[13:45] herman Bergson: He just throws it away...for it doesnt deliver for his personal gain
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he runs the country like a company so that HE can make profit on it
[13:45] CB Axel: All he knows is business and how to corrupt business so that he wins.
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a clear road to disaster
[13:45] herman Bergson: yes
[13:45] CB Axel: Too bad for anyone that gets left behind. They're "losers."
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the biggest looser is T himself
[13:46] CB Axel: Bejiita, he can't even run his businesses.
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but what can the government do about poverty?
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well with the pea sized brain of ego he has im surprised he got this far
[13:46] CB Axel: He goes bankrupt or he cheats suppliers, etc. He can't even run a casino.
[13:47] herman Bergson: My evaluation of the moment is this.....
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like these frauders who buy companies, ru them out of business and pick out all cash for themselves and vanish with it
[13:47] herman Bergson: Trump is factually a loser...he has lost so far almost all lawsuits...
[13:47] CB Axel: The government can set a fair minimum wage, tax people fairly, insure safe workplaces... all kinds of things.
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): leaving lot of people without work and in poverty
[13:48] CB Axel: That will change, Herman. The Republicans are packing the courts with people who interpret the laws for their own benefits and the benefits of those who appointed them.
[13:48] herman Bergson: ok..in fact Trump is a loser,,,,but he still claims to be a winner....
[13:49] CB Axel: Citizens United is the worst example of that. Corporations are people? Oh, please.
[13:49] CB Axel rolls her eyes
[13:49] herman Bergson: those who voted for Trump cant vote for a democrat, for then they would admit that they are losers too
[13:49] herman Bergson: so they will vote for Trump again
[13:50] CB Axel: The Republicans have taken over all branches of the government.
[13:50] herman Bergson: That is his steady base
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) is online.
[13:50] CB Axel: Very true, Herman.
[13:50] CB Axel: wb, Gemma
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Gemma:)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): welcome back Gemma
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bacl
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oops
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): internet went
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:51] herman Bergson: A pitty you had to miss oit but we jyust saved America :-))
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:51] herman Bergson: It wasn't the world today...AMerica needed us more
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): beginning to think it will nto be saved
[13:52] herman Bergson: Keep believing in your institutions Gemma....
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we kicked Trump in the BUTT!
[13:52] CB Axel: America's decline is why Europe needs the EU. It's the only way you are big enough to compete and not rely on this piece of shit country.
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fingers crossed yes
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:52] herman Bergson: Hello Josiane...
[13:52] Josiane Auster (josiane.llewellyn): Hello Professor
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hi Jos
[13:53] herman Bergson: Yes CB....that is an issue ofr the future here indeed
[13:53] CB Axel: Hello, Josiane.
[13:53] Josiane Auster (josiane.llewellyn): Hi everyone
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hihi
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hallo Josiane
[13:53] herman Bergson: I ahve to disappoint you Josiane...we are done here for today...
[13:54] Josiane Auster (josiane.llewellyn): Oh, I have the time wrong!
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ys
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh well
[13:54] Netty (netty.keng) is online.
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and no class thursday holiday
[13:54] CB Axel: We'll be here next Tuesday at 1 pm slt
[13:54] herman Bergson: So...to keep in mind....
[13:54] Josiane Auster (josiane.llewellyn): Oh, sorry.
[13:54] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is offline.
[13:54] herman Bergson: no lectures on coming Thursday and Next week Thursday
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): at least you tried
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh next week thrus too?
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): missed that
[13:55] herman Bergson: Yes...Sinterklaas in the Netherlands....
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ahha nice
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's Sinterklaas evening:)
[13:55] herman Bergson: I go and see family and exchange presents and poems :-)
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nice
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): me too :)))
[13:55] herman Bergson: like Beertje :-)
[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes yes
[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very nice
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok!!
[13:56] herman Bergson: Sinterklaas is like Santa, but he comes December 5 here :-)
[13:56] herman Bergson: Poor fellow is almost killed by Santa....
[13:56] Josiane Auster (josiane.llewellyn): at least I learned something today.
[13:57] CB Axel: His feast day
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :) lol CB
[13:57] herman Bergson: Adults tend to give presents with Xmas now....while Sinterklaas is for the children
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I hope you learned a lot more
[13:57] CB Axel: Santa is St. Nicolas. Same guy, really.
[13:57] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we don't give presents with Christmas
[13:57] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): names different everywhere
[13:57] herman Bergson: Nono....not at all the same guy CB
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa isn't it same dude
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): only at 5 december
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): SInterklaaas = santa
[13:58] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good idea
[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no Bejiita
[13:58] herman Bergson: Saint Nicolas is a bisshop from the catholic church....
[13:58] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lives in Spain:)
[13:58] Netty (netty.keng) is offline.
[13:58] herman Bergson: Santa is some fairitale person
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause sounds like Santa Claus which is based on St Nicolaus if I remmember it all right
[13:58] CB Axel: Santa is a corruption of the word saint and Claus is a shortened form of Nicklaus.
[13:58] Netty (netty.keng) is online.
[13:58] herman Bergson: This Nicolas saved three children from dying....
[13:59] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:59] herman Bergson: made him a saint, of course...
[13:59] CB Axel: Like everything else, the US has corrupted him.
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there is santa and there is Krampus who eats the bad children
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:59] herman Bergson: so now he is the godfather of all children and gives presents December 5 :-)))
[13:59] CB Axel: St. Nick is the patron saint of children, if I remember correctly.
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa I think thats correct
[13:59] herman Bergson: Ah yes Krampus....heard of him...
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if anything there are about as many Krampus horror films as shark ones
[14:00] herman Bergson: Yes CB....correct ^_^
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): almost
[14:00] CB Axel: Is Krampus Swedish? I was thinking he was Austrian for some reason.
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nope
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): austrian
[14:00] CB Axel: Ah. OK. I was right, then.
[14:00] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I like the Italian Bafana
[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): old lady
[14:01] herman Bergson: If I am not mistaken he even was the assistent of Nikolaus (in Austrian tradition)
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes thats true
[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bafana means boy....
[14:01] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): looks for naughty kiddies
[14:01] CB Axel: I'm not familiar with Bafana. I'll have to do some reading. :)
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): santa gives presents to the nice children and krampus eats the bad one
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in a teamwork
[14:01] herman Bergson: here we have black peter...lol
[14:02] CB Axel: If Krampus was real, there would a lot fewer children in the world.
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I have an SL friend named Bafana
[14:02] herman Bergson: who does the same as Krampus....
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in an african group
[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but gives good kids gifs
[14:02] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes me too Bejiita
[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no santa
[14:02] CB Axel: Oh, yes! I remember hearing of Black Peter.
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but he is from France
[14:02] herman Bergson: Wait....
[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[14:02] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): lots of different ones
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa black peter on which also the disney figure is based
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): which hates goofy
[14:02] herman Bergson: I have an interesting problem for you here!
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[14:02] herman Bergson: Listen....
[14:03] herman Bergson: This black Peter issue/...
[14:03] herman Bergson: since 1986 we are fighting about him in the netherlands....for he is african black....
[14:03] herman Bergson: a group says...oh oh..our feelings are hurt...this is a symbol of slavery
[14:04] herman Bergson: so...n all black peters here anymore....that is what they want....
[14:04] herman Bergson: but by this move they have created a new racist problem....
[14:04] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well
[14:04] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we have those issues too
[14:04] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): black peter is a very friendly figure
[14:04] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): words mearning change
[14:04] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so must we
[14:05] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they help Sinterklaas to give the presents to the children
[14:05] herman Bergson: for we have invented the soot wipe peter....
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): lot of footvall teams named aftr Indians
[14:05] herman Bergson: BUT...
[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and now the native amaericans do nto like it
[14:05] herman Bergson: you can only be a soot wipe Peter when you are WHITE!
[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): adn i dont blame them
[14:05] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): word meanings change
[14:06] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): product of education i thinnk
[14:06] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): my grandsons are black...they are natural blackpeters and they are rpoud to be
[14:06] herman Bergson: So all people from Surinam here who are blacjk cant be a soot whipe peter....because you wouldnt see the soot...
[14:06] herman Bergson: That is discrtimination!
[14:07] CB Axel: Nice, Beertje.
[14:07] herman Bergson: They can't be anymore Beertje
[14:07] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): oh yes
[14:07] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they just go to Sinterklaas as black peters
[14:07] CB Axel: Soot is gray. It would be seen even on black skin.
[14:07] herman Bergson: if only soot wipe Peters are admitted...:-)
[14:08] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): poor boys
[14:08] herman Bergson: You are a creative thinker Gemma :-)
[14:08] herman Bergson: Love that :-)
[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[14:08] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): _=7
[14:08] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:08] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): time to run!!!
[14:09] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): late
[14:09] herman Bergson: Well...guess we saved the world in the end yet...:-)
[14:09] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
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