When you think about it, in Europe we have dozens of political parties. Most of them are respected except those at the extreme right wing.
The reason that you are not respected or even feared is understandable. The reason is that such parties violate human rights through a xenophobic or racist position or propagate unconstitutional plans and intentions.
On the one hand, we are proud of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 10 December, 1948. It is an international document adopted by the United Nations General Assembly that enshrines the rights and freedoms of all human beings.
On the other hand, and this is a kind of paradox, allows our political system of democracy large groups of voters to act contrary to this very Declaration, which guarantees them the freedom to do so.
Anyway, it is understandable that many people fear these right-wing extremist positions and see them as a threat to democratic freedom.
But now, let's look in the opposite direction. There we seem to find also scary political positions and ideas. Just mention socialism or communism and people start running away.
In Europe, socialist parties are respected members of the political landscape. I won't hide that, since I had the right to vote, I have always voted for the Dutch Socialist Party (PVDA), always. In the US I would be a kind of Democrat, I guess.
There also was a Communist Party in the Netherlands. I never thought of voting for that party. Emotionally it was a bit scary party. That is how we were educated in the 1950s and 1960s. Communism was Russia and its threat to destroy the West.
But these are feelings and emotions, call it even political indoctrination. This, however, does not answer our rational question of today. And here I do not refer to countries that call themselves communist countries.
Here I refer to the intellectual ideas of the political theory of communism. Why right-wing extremism is dangerous and scary I just explained, but why are we in the Western World so convinced that communism is a great danger?
What is it, that makes communism such a threat to our way of life? Actually, the answer, when reading the Manifesto, seems to be quite simple: PRIVATE PROPERTY.
We live in a culture that allows individuals to own a limitless amount of private property. Property, and especially the ownership of huge amounts of money, implies power. And power corrupts people. No one wants to lose power.
What this leads to we see in the US with people like the Koch brothers and Ruppert Murdoch, and of course all the big companies and banks. In Europe, it is the same.
Marx and Engels lived in a period of history where there existed a class of people that really had almost nothing as private property and in the 1840s this class revolted in Europe.
And here comes the scary thing: by the nature of their class, the members of the proletariat have no way of appropriating property.
Therefore, when they obtain control they will have to destroy all ownership of private property, and classes themselves will disappear.
That is what the Manifesto predicted and still scares capitalists. However, it seems that homo sapiens's brain is not wired for such a way of life. Since homo sapiens stopped living as hunter-gatherers and settled at some place
beginning a life of farming and agriculture, he all of a sudden had his OWN house, his OWN cattle, his OWN land. In other words, he developed the concept op private property.
When we look at so-called communist countries nowadays, they seem to be as capitalist as Western democracies, but contrary to democratic countries they have to be ruled in a totalitarian way to protect the privileges of this upperclass of neo-rich people.
Every political system has flaws, but for the time being I still prefer the flaws of the Western democratic systems, freedom and respect for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Thank you for your attention again....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
The Discussion
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm can only agree to this
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman.
[13:19] herman Bergson: This explains the fear of communism.....the right to own private property...
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess thats one big part
[13:20] herman Bergson: It is in our mental system....GREED IS GOOD...as he said...in that movie
[13:20] Max Chatnoir: I'm wondering about how the reluctance of the very wealthy to share seems to exist under both kinds of societies. Democratic and Fascist.
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): + also that the word communism is tied to the terror regieme of Stalin Lenin and also now Putin
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Gulag ect
[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes Max.....really puzzling...
[13:21] herman Bergson: Sharing is not our basic attitude it seems
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess we have issues with that
[13:22] Max Chatnoir: In the US the fear of losing what little they have seems to make the MAGA group very susceptible to the influence of a dictator.
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the more we get the more we want to keep for ourself
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i call it the scrooge McDuck syndrome
[13:22] herman Bergson: There may be an explanation for it....
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he has an entire vault of money but refuses to share a single penny with others
[13:23] herman Bergson: For that we have to turn to Maslow...
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Hierarchy of needs?
[13:23] herman Bergson: The basic drive of homo sapiens is safety and security.....
[13:23] herman Bergson: yes, Max...
[13:24] herman Bergson: Private property is the basis of the security feeling of homo sapiens....
[13:24] herman Bergson: I have a house, I have a job, I have a steady income...
[13:25] herman Bergson: That is what politicians appeal to too
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:25] herman Bergson: Tell people their safety ans security in life is threatend by TH OTHERS.....and you'll win their vote
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well indeed you want a place to live and such and since everything costs money including rent electricity and also food u want to ensure your income, that goes also for me
[13:26] herman Bergson: Right Bejiita...
[13:27] Max Chatnoir: You know I was just looking around my neighborhood and all of the separate houses with a few and sometimes more than a few people living in them. There's a certain attraction to the idea of combining all of it and having some kind of communal living surrounded by a nice parkland.
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because that is what is required to have a life nout out on the streets in the cold and always hungry , you dont have money u are screwed
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): on the other hand i have no issues with sharing to for ex friends needing assist and so
[13:28] herman Bergson: That is actually what socialism in politics mean.....they are willing to share with the less fortunate....
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i sure want a good buffer but im not Scrooge Mc Duck by any means but surely i want to make sure i can live a good life indeed
[13:29] herman Bergson: You are entitled to like everyone, Bejiita
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): + now and then get myself some "unnessesary" thingy like a 3D printer, game dev workstation, electric scooter ect
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:30] herman Bergson: There is enough wealth on this earth to offer everuone a good life..
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i say so
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the issue with these super rick is they just put money on a pile to BOAST about their status
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): rich
[13:31] herman Bergson: for instance...
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: I think they're afraid that if they share with anybody, EVERYBODY will get in line.
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one good example would be Jeff Bezos, je flies into space while his employees are subjected to slabe labor in Amazons warehouses (wich is why i don't have an Amazon account btw, Jepp uses people for his own winning)
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the drop was when during a tornado employes were forced to continue work instead of being allowed to seek shelter, they all died when the warehouse collapsed as the tornado struck
[13:33] herman Bergson: The willingness to share is really a human problem
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then i decided id never want anything to do with that company
[13:34] herman Bergson: When homo sapiens was just a hunter-gatherer they all worked for the group....
[13:34] herman Bergson: That was the way to survive....
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: Do you think we've been corrupted by the agricultural revolution?
[13:34] herman Bergson: when he turned to a settled life and agriculture...it changed completely
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess that might have been the start indeed
[13:35] herman Bergson: Yes, Max...then private property came into existence
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:35] herman Bergson: my house, my cattle, my crop, my work....
[13:36] bergfrau Apfelbaum: and the egoism was born
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that too
[13:37] herman Bergson: We are just an organism that wants to survive...and thence we had our evolution....maybe not the best one....but yet
[13:37] herman Bergson: yes Bergie.....it is MINE!
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): MINE MINE MINE!
[13:38] bergfrau Apfelbaum: grins
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no u can have too (tosses chocolate around)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:38] herman Bergson: Bejiita...you are too greedy now :-)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:39] Max Chatnoir: There needs to be some way of sharing the proceeds of group production equitably.
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the gaps are too big for sure
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: If somebody does something valuable, then they deserve to be rewarded for it. But unless they do it TOTALLY alone, the reward should be distributed.
[13:40] herman Bergson: You know Max, mayvbe this is still our mental handicap....the inability to share, to help and support the less lucky ones among us
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: I think the problem is in deciding what a fair distribution is.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hm
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes...and among other things...this foolish belief that when you are not that lucky in life it is just and only your fault...so fuck you...dont ask me for help
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats how it looks in US more or less, you have ti be a millionaire to afford basic healthcare and education more or less
[13:42] herman Bergson: The sick and disabled people only cost us money, it the stance....
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): born with the silver spoon
[13:42] bergfrau Apfelbaum: everyone helps their two neighbors.... and that, worldwide ........ it would be the first meaningful chain letter
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:43] herman Bergson: Indeed Bergie....
[13:43] herman Bergson: If every neighbour would help its neighbour......!
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:43] herman Bergson: a chain reaction....
[13:44] herman Bergson: But a part of homo sapiens brain is still not yet ready for that it seems
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: But if we can see and maybe understand it, we ought to be able to fix it.
[13:45] herman Bergson: Rationally we all KNOW that it woud create a better world....
[13:45] bergfrau Apfelbaum: the rich don't play along
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one thing i also read about today, that climate meeting, all the arab nations oposses it with false claims that the pollution dont do a thing to the climate to those wanting to phase out oil gas and coal
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause that woud mean that the super rich dudies in Dubay would not be able to be yucky rich any longer
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all income comes from the oil
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gas and coal
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Dubai
[13:47] herman Bergson: That is what I mean.....on an emotional basic....we still love to go for greed ...security and feeling safe....which is expressed in owning as much as private propert(money) as possible....gives us also a lot of power to control those who threaten us
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so the meeting is regarded now as a huge scandal and fiasco and failure
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): greed before the planet
[13:48] herman Bergson: That is who we are Bejiita....we aren't gods....just a kind of evoved animals
[13:48] herman Bergson: evolved
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its already been proven that climate gets warmer but the oil sheiks just showes those things away like bogus
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that we are the cause
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well we are
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): obvoius, spew shit into the air and bad things happens
[13:49] herman Bergson: Bu tif you look at it from a rpagmatic point of view.....
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats not rocket science
[13:49] herman Bergson: what is the problem?
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:50] herman Bergson: This earth will continue its rounds around the sun anyway...whether mankind exists or not....who cares?
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seas rise, superstorms, drought and also floods - extreme weather
[13:51] herman Bergson: Not this planet is the stupid one....we simple are :-)
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: Yes, but it seems sad to lose an interesting species because we can't get it together.
[13:51] herman Bergson: I agree Max...:-)
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we can do better i say
[13:52] herman Bergson: We are quite nice a s a species...creating art and music and poetry and literature....I agree
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: I wish that rational argument was as compelling as an effective emotional appeal.
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as u said , most people are ok
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): BUT
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): too many bad ones still, like how Putin tries to wipe out entire Ukraine and Israel and Palestine tries to wipe each other out as well
[13:53] herman Bergson: Interesting fact indeed, Max, that appealing to primitive emotions still works better in politics than coming up with rational arguments
[13:55] herman Bergson: Guess we have to wait till March 4, 2024 when T has to go to trail.....
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:55] Max Chatnoir: Is that date still good?
[13:55] herman Bergson: Maybe that would soer up a few people
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope for the best
[13:55] herman Bergson: sober
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): T president again woud be a disaster for sure
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:56] Max Chatnoir: I'm afraid we may get to test that hypothesis.
[13:56] herman Bergson: No, Bejiita...thsat would show what the American peaple really stand for andwe have to face it....unfortunately
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i remember the first thing i did when he got president before was to play the song "End of the world)
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): "
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): luckily that did not happen, that time
[13:57] herman Bergson: Brings me bacl to the core of my lecture....
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 2 words, Red Button, (luckily he cant just press that to play with his nuke toys together with his buddy Kim Jong)
[13:58] herman Bergson: 2024 will show what the American people....that is...the big money, really stands for....
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said, I hope for the best, for sure
[13:59] herman Bergson: Me too...!
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a better world in general, America have many good things but
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): things need to change a liiiitle bit over there for sure
[14:00] herman Bergson: I still have good hopes, Bejiita
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:00] herman Bergson: So...so much on the scary communists for today
[14:00] Max Chatnoir: I think we have to find some way to convince the MAGA supporting part of the congress to pull it together.
[14:00] herman Bergson: Thank you all again....
[14:01] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-)
[14:01] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman.
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Max
[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Dankjewel Herman
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): another good one Herman
[14:01] Max Chatnoir: By the way, has Navalny turned up yet?
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no
[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he is missing
[14:01] Max Chatnoir: Not good.
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[14:02] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you Herman and class!
[14:02] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i'm afraid he will never show up again
[14:02] herman Bergson: Indeed..that is how it works over there
[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders again)
