Main Resources:
Philip Stokes, Philosophy: 100 essential thinkers
The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
The Discussion
[13:21] herman Bergson: Well....
[13:22] herman Bergson: the first landmark in Western philosophy is set now
[13:22] herman Bergson: The mind as the origin of true knowledge
[13:23] herman Bergson: if you have any questions or remarks..?
[13:23] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Is this suppressed knowledge mystcal or instinctual?
[13:23] Ninjah Valeeva: How can we describe the mind ?
[13:23] Aaron23 DeCuir: there is an interesting parallel to this in OOP - object oriented programming
[13:24] Aaron23 DeCuir: its called the abstract class
[13:24] herman Bergson: Aaron first....;-0
[13:24] Cailleach Shan: Is he saying that we are all born with the 'Collective Unconscious' but that we forget.....until we receive some trigger..
[13:25] herman Bergson: and Cialeach...
[13:25] Aaron23 DeCuir: the abstract class is one that cannot have physical existance
[13:25] Aaron23 DeCuir: but classes derived from it - a physical horse - can
[13:26] herman Bergson: instinctual and collective conscious are psychological terms applied to a period that didnt know of these concepts.
[13:26] herman Bergson: SO I guess ..in Plato's experience this insight in the real Ideas was more or les a mystical thing
[13:27] herman Bergson: a kind of enlightment
[13:27] Lighthorse Wilkinson: But a supernatual thing.
[13:27] Lighthorse Wilkinson: supernatural
[13:28] herman Bergson: I dont think it was meant supernatural
[13:28] Ninjah Valeeva: The light is when we love something !
[13:29] herman Bergson: for Plato the mind was the important thing....the thinking
[13:29] herman Bergson: he was the first who made a clear distinction between body and soul/mind
[13:30] Lighthorse Wilkinson: It seems that the lack of scientific understanding of the brain must have led him to the mystical.
[13:30] herman Bergson: and that mind was imprisoned in the body...a source of sensory impressions that led to only opinions
[13:31] herman Bergson: sure...but that is easy for us to say
[13:31] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Yes.
[13:31] Aaron23 DeCuir: how did he distinquish between the mind and the soul?
[13:31] Ninjah Valeeva: The soul in opposition with the logic ?
[13:31] herman Bergson: he didnt make that distinction
[13:31] herman Bergson: the soul was invented by christianity
[13:32] You: not invented
[13:32] You: discovered
[13:32] herman Bergson: in this context ..with soul I mean NOUS...the greek word for it
[13:32] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Ahhh.
[13:32] Aaron23 DeCuir: and how does that translate?
[13:32] Ninjah Valeeva: The soul is not a mystical thing
[13:32] hope63 Shepherd: like back in ancient egypt..
[13:33] Cailleach Shan: Ah... I have used that expression for years without knowing what it meant.
[13:33] Rodney Handrick: ba?
[13:33] Ninjah Valeeva: Is the music a mystical thing ?
[13:33] hope63 Shepherd: in context with ka..
[13:33] herman Bergson: Ingeneral I think he meant consciousness against sensory impressions
[13:33] Ludwig John: The soul is a religious question and not philosophical
[13:33] Ninjah Valeeva: No !!!!
[13:33] herman Bergson: You are right Ludwig
[13:33] Ninjah Valeeva: I don't think so
[13:34] Lighthorse Wilkinson: How else can it be?
[13:34] Ninjah Valeeva: so
[13:34] herman Bergson: at this momen in time there are three things
[13:34] herman Bergson: body - mind -soul
13:35] herman Bergson: in philosophy we dont occupy ourselves with the whereabouts of the soul
[13:35] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Only because religion says soul exists.
[13:35] Rodney Handrick: true
[13:35] You: NO
[13:35] herman Bergson: we are interested in the mind
[13:35] Manoly Demina: yeah
[13:35] You: stop
[13:35] Ludwig John: otherwise there are only two things
[13:35] You: too many discussions going on
[13:35] You: one at a time pleae
[13:36] herman Bergson: ok Osrum...
[13:36] herman Bergson: back to Plato...
[13:36] herman Bergson: To him the mind is the source of true knowledge
[13:36] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Plato does not mention the soul?
[13:36] herman Bergson: the sensory impressions only lead to opinions
[13:37] herman Bergson: and here the beacons are set....
[13:37] Ninjah Valeeva: Mathematic and inspiration - the same ?
[13:37] herman Bergson: for many centuries of philosophy
[13:37] herman Bergson: what is the source of certain knowledge.....the mind or the sensory impressions
[13:37] Rodney Handrick: it's all about mathematics
[13:38] herman Bergson: Plato said: the mind
[13:38] herman Bergson: I guess to some extend it is....
[13:38] herman Bergson: mathematics is so fascinating...
[13:38] herman Bergson: you only need your mind to come to solutions
[13:38] Lighthorse Wilkinson: And Plato believed that the mind held all knowledge?
[13:39] Cailleach Shan: Is there room for mysticism if it is all in the mind.
[13:39] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:39] Ninjah Valeeva: We know that if we are completely isolated we can't live ..
[13:39] hope63 Shepherd: to realize the concept of a horse is not amth...
[13:39] hope63 Shepherd: math
[13:39] herman Bergson: no..but Ithink it worked the other way around....
[13:40] Rodney Handrick: then what decides what makes a horse or a human?
[13:40] herman Bergson: the concept of a triangle.....it stands..whatever shape the triangle has.....
[13:40] You: conventions
[13:40] herman Bergson: so why not extrapolate this line of thinking to the sensory experience
[13:41] Ninjah Valeeva: no a triangle is not a square and a square is not a sphere
[13:42] Cailleach Shan: How can we ever know another's experience....
[13:42] Ninjah Valeeva: and when we see a sphere that's not the same when we see a trainagle, we are not impacted as the same way
[13:42] Rodney Handrick: until your look at the sphere at the smallest component...it's not a sphere at all
[13:42] hope63 Shepherd: ninjah.. but you can reduce them to geometrical concepts..
[13:42] herman Bergson: I think that the basic feeling of greek philosophers like Plato was that when I can think so clearly about a general concept, for instance triangle, this must be true for many other concepts too
[13:42] Ninjah Valeeva: but it is not the purpose to reduce something
[13:42] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Did Plato speak to varying opinions in regards to the same sensory experience?
[13:43] Ninjah Valeeva: It's just the purpose to apprehend a sphere or a triangle nothing else
[13:43] herman Bergson: Yes lighthorse
[13:44] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Did he say that some were abhorant?
[13:44] hope63 Shepherd: as a scholra of socrates plato woul dof course seek to reduce from a multitude to the basic ..
[13:43] Ninjah Valeeva: It's just the purpose to apprehend a sphere or a triangle nothing else
[13:43] herman Bergson: Yes lighthorse
[13:44] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Did he say that some were abhorant?
[13:44] hope63 Shepherd: as a scholra of socrates plato would of course seek to reduce from a multitude to the basic ..
[13:45] herman Bergson: Right
3:45] herman Bergson: Plato knew them quite well
[13:46] herman Bergson: Well....let's conclude with the observation that at this moment in time the mind was the main source of true knowledge
[13:46] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Amen.
[13:47] herman Bergson: and that the sensry impressions only lead to opinions
[13:47] Rodney Handrick: I would say the "collective" mind!
[13:47] herman Bergson: I wouldnt agree to that Rodney
[13:47] herman Bergson: it is a Jungian concept
[13:48] Rodney Handrick: ok
[13:48] hope63 Shepherd: which is one of the reasons he wrote about the perfect state?
[13:48] Lighthorse Wilkinson: So the more mind you collect the smarter you can be?
[13:48] herman Bergson: In a way yes, Lighthorse...
[13:48] herman Bergson: Plato thought that philosophers had true access to the Ideas
[13:49] Rodney Handrick: I think it's a question of being aware...not smart. Smart is subjective
[13:49] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Yes.
[13:49] herman Bergson: a creepy thought, in my opinion
[13:49] Lighthorse Wilkinson: With the poplation explosion we we will be very smat soon.
[13:50] herman Bergson: Betrand Russll accused Plato of being totalitarian and undemocrtic due to these ideas
[13:51] herman Bergson: And I agree with that....just the idea there are some people who claim to have the real insight....???!!
[13:51] Ninjah Valeeva: Nice music, here
[13:51] herman Bergson: thank you..
[13:52] You: but many fields of knowledge claim to hold 'special' knowledge
[13:52] Lighthorse Wilkinson: Thank you Herman.
[13:52] Cailleach Shan: Oh no... we are going to restart the sim....
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