Machiavelli survived history. He is on my list. To be honest.....he isnt a philosopher at all..But..he was a man who put some things to writing and we stil read his words.
In 1512 the Republic of Florence was overthrown and the Medici returned to power. Machiavelli lost his job.
It was at this time. that Machiavelli turned to literary work in the hope that through his writings he would gain the favour of influential men who might help him to regain a position in the Florence government.
Thus, Machiavelli's attitude in composing 'The Prince' (Il Principe) and 'The Discourses' (Discorsi) was not that of a scholar; his aim was practical and personal. He wanted his job back. 'The Prince' was a kind of manual, how to be a good and efficient ruler.
Machiavelli lived in a world on constant war and conflict and Florence tried to stay out of all this by being neutral, but eventually had to pay for it time and again, literally, it bought its way out. A state without a backbone.
His view was that what counts is the goal for the state and when this goal is good (benificial to the state and its inhabitants) then all means to realize this goal were permitted.
Machiavelli's views have frequently been interpreted as meaning that wickedness is more effective than goodness. This distortion of his views has been regarded as the essence of Machiavelli's teachings, as identical with what later centuries called Machiavelism.
It should be stated that Machiaveli was not concerned with good or evil; he was only concerned with political efficiency. He saw the state as a natural phenomena, which ha only one purpose..to survive and take care of its inhabitants.
It has been said, that in rejecting the validity of the doctrines of theology and moral philosophy for the conduct of policy, Machiavelli established politics as an autonomous field. And here we see the 14th century. Rome is no longer in control. The individual man and his science take over.
Like Copernicus changed our view on the universe, Machiavelli challenged our view on politics. No wonder, that ,like the book of Copernicus, his book also ended up on the Index of Rome (The list of books catholics were forbidden to read).
This all leads to an interesting conclusion. According to Machiavelli's view ruling a state is not a question of what is right or wrong. It is a question of goals to be achieved to make the state proper and grow.
That is what guides our political desicions.
The Discussion................was lost !!!
There are people around in Second Life who love to spoil the pleasure of others. Due to a griefer attack the discussion log was lost because of Linden intervention to stop the griefer.
But the quintessence of the discussion was about the relation between power and ethics. We might get back to this discussion, when we'll meet Thomas More.
[14:05] Herman Bergson: Osrum...did you save the chatlog??????? [14:05] Socrates Linden: I don't speak Australian but hary Linden can translate [14:05] Osrum Sands: yes [14:05] Herman Bergson: WOW !!! [14:06] Osrum Sands: just before I crashed I got it [14:06] Ledddd Zabelin: did we all get logged oiut? [14:06] Zingo Hax: sorry all mega crash [14:06] Socrates Linden: I'm here about some replicators, just making sure they got wiped [14:06] AristotleVon Doobie: Hey I am back . [14:06] hope63 Shepherd: well I did.. but thats usual for me.. [14:06] Herman Bergson: There you see our cooperation Osrum!!!! [14:06] AristotleVon Doobie: Is this a class example Herman? [14:06] Herman Bergson: It paid off today [14:06] Osrum Sands: Thank you for the help [14:06] AristotleVon Doobie: Of power abuse. [14:06] Osrum Sands: sorry for the Ausie slang [14:07] Osrum Sands: but [14:07] Herman Bergson: this really is bad... [14:07] Herman Bergson: The griefer's stuff is gone... [14:07] AristotleVon Doobie: It was difficult getting back in [14:08] AristotleVon Doobie: had to go to Drinker sim. [14:08] Herman Bergson: maybe a Linden just reset the sim or something like that [14:08] Cailleach Shan is Online [14:08] Sofie DuCasse: He was here,, that Linden guy. [14:08] AristotleVon Doobie: Could be I see not graphics. [14:08] Sofie DuCasse: Socrates Linden [14:08] hope63 Shepherd: wow... sofie.-. [14:08] Osrum Sands: Sorry Herman but The note card did not save [14:08] Herman Bergson: Ah....I didnt see him...my screen went greyscale [14:09] Gemma Cleanslate is Online [14:09] Sofie DuCasse: He said he wiped the duplicator. [14:09] Herman Bergson: he wiped us all [14:09] Osrum Sands: good on old Socratres [14:09] Sofie DuCasse: Yes ;o) [14:09] AristotleVon Doobie: Busted me up good. [14:09] Sofie DuCasse: We all was wiped ;o) [14:10] Herman Bergson: yes...so I'll file an abuse report on mr Socrates..:-) [14:10] Osrum Sands: its good to see the quick response from Lindens [14:10] AristotleVon Doobie: Grrrr, ehtics has left my mind. [14:10] hope63 Shepherd: it wasn't i just had my"i'm going to class" experience.. [14:10] hope63 Shepherd: on and off [14:11] Herman Bergson: well..disappointng...we lost the discussion transscript.. [14:11] Osrum Sands: Herman I remember way back in my early SL days that people developing educational facilities in Sl can get extra 'stuff' [14:11] AristotleVon Doobie: For class survival we should resort to all measures. [14:11] Osrum Sands: dont ask what that stuff is [14:11] Osrum Sands: but it might be worth a try [14:11] Osrum Sands: to see how Lindens can help [14:12] Osrum Sands: good one Ari [14:12] Herman Bergson: Yes..taking the timing into account I really get the feeling it was a deliberate attack [14:12] Osrum Sands: our state, small though it must survive [14:12] Herman Bergson: or maybe this guy looks for locations with lots of avs present [14:12] AristotleVon Doobie: I think it was deliverate. [14:12] AristotleVon Doobie: Santa! [14:13] hope63 Shepherd: you think the catholic church is behind all that herman:? [14:13] Herman Bergson: nice hat Cailleach...cheers us up (C. is wearing a Santa hat) [14:13] Osrum Sands: hahahah [14:13] Osrum Sands: hope [14:13] Cailleach Shan: lol..... I got tossed out of the sim [14:13] AristotleVon Doobie: Good looking Santa too. [14:13] AristotleVon Doobie: We all did [14:13] hope63 Shepherd: are we on the index lol [14:13] AristotleVon Doobie: lol [14:13] Herman Bergson: Well..as such this is an interesting learning experience... [14:13] AristotleVon Doobie: It is. [14:14] Herman Bergson: never file an abuse report until you are done with your own things... [14:14] Cailleach Shan: Is that how the griefer gets dealt with... they just shut down the whole sim? [14:14] AristotleVon Doobie: I guess we got good response for SL. [14:14] Herman Bergson: i dont know... [14:14] Osrum Sands: thats an abuse of their power [14:14] Osrum Sands: haha [14:15] Cailleach Shan: Maybe that's the real definition of power...... who has the finger on the 'off' switch. [14:15] AristotleVon Doobie: Sacfificing the few for the many? [14:15] Osrum Sands: a living lesson on the throry for today [14:15] Herman Bergson: Yes....our being kicked saves SL [14:15] hope63 Shepherd: cal. the on switch is the danger,, [14:16] hope63 Shepherd: opff.. its just loosing to me.. [14:16] Ewa Aska is Online [14:16] hope63 Shepherd: sorry cal.. the cabernet saouvingon starts to have its effects lol [14:16] Herman Bergson: I am sorry class had to end like this....but this is how SL life is....who is in power..:-) [14:17] hope63 Shepherd: ari.. the center of our universe.. [14:17] Sofie DuCasse: Socrates was today... [14:17] Cailleach Shan: lol [14:17] AristotleVon Doobie: Thats ok, practical experience surplanted the discussion. A living lab. [14:17] hope63 Shepherd: lol.. cal.. no.. that was for all to know lol [14:17] Cailleach Shan: Most of us in the class...... I did. [14:17] Herman Bergson: Indeed Aristotle.. [14:18] Zingo Hax: well it was learning any way....power at practics [14:18] Herman Bergson: One consolation we have: it was Socrates himself how did this !.