Sunday, May 10, 2009

29 Sir Francis Bacon

Today it is 1591. You, my students, have wandered through almost 1200 years of philosophy now since Thales of Milete.
Oh..I am sorry..I forgot to introduce myself....Sir Francis Bacon is the name. Nice to meet you.

And in all these 1200 years we did make hardly any progress. Those Greeks only were concerned about what is there....their ontological question. Atoms, forms, permanent change or just the opposite.

Those Romans....virtue was their main issue.

Ok..what goodness...those Scholastics much effort and energy they put in trying to proof the existens of God. And look at them now.....hairsplitting debates on words, drooling of fat syllogisms.

And nowadays, these Humanists,..ok nice guys. They write cool stuff, but they only look into the past. They want the old Greek and Latin back. Believe me, it wont bring us any further.

We need a whole new approach. We need science! Knowledge is power. Knowledge applied to practical solutions to improve the well-being of man.

But look how clumsy man's mind can work. There are so many pittfalls for those who wish to go for science. I call it 'idols'.
No!!!!!....not that TV thing of your aera..I know the TV program. Phantoms!! It is Greek, fellows, phantoms delude our mind.

Idols of the Tribe....our unreliable senses, whishful thinking, rushing to conclusions and so on
Idols of the Cave.... prejudices, childhood experiences, cultural influences....
Idols of the Market Place... jargons of academics, special discourses, vocabularies..
idols of the Theatre ....I mean opinions derived from grand schemes of philosophy, for instance those Scholatics...

Phantoms that cloud our mind. We need a real scientific method and let me tell you why...!! Look back..they all stood still for almost 1200 years. We need progress, development of new knowledge, improved techniques, so we can improve the condition of man.

Keep in mind...ok my contemporaries are not yet used to the idea, but it is all about PROGRESS. So I have deviced a new method of acquiring knowledge. I call it the Tables of Investigation.

First we have the Table of Affirmation. What the scientist must do is to gather all known instances of a phenomenon. Well....we gather like bees and we only accumulate data. That is not enough.

Secondly I have my Table of Negation. We have to investigate those instances that seem to contradict what we found as affirmations....Say we investigate warmth. The sun sends its rays and warms us, but the moon does the same and doesnt warm us at all.

So I have my Table of Comparison. We have to study the variations in different phenomena to see if there is any correlation between the various changes observed.

Well, what do you think?! Cool isnt it. That is going for making progress in scientific knowledge. And wh.....

Yes, thank you so much Sir Francis....well spoken. Allow me to take over now.

Sure, fellow, I know you can do it..:-)

Thanks :-)

What we see here is an amazing moment in the history of mind. Here is introduced something so new. The world of knowledge is changed from a static mass to a dynamic organism, which can grow, when you apply the right method.

And even more, Bacon introduced the idea of looking for falsification of all affirming instances. We'll see how Karl Popper used this approach in 1935 to develop a Logic of Scientific Discovery.

This is an amazing milestone in the development in mind. But not only in the mind. Look at the historical situation. Not only the mind is becoming expasionist, but man himself was too. From Europe fragile ships sailed the oceans, exploring all corners of the earth.

A new journey has begun.

The discussion

[13:25] Herman Bergson: So far Francis Bacon...:-)
[13:25] Herman Bergson: Just went out into the snow again..:-)
[13:26] Herman Bergson: If you have any questions or remarks, feel free..:-)
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: falsification of all affirming instances. What is this
[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: Did Bacon lay down an order of freeing oneself of the Idols?
[13:27] Garvie Garzo: i have a chronological question
[13:27] Herman Bergson: at a time.....
[13:27] Garvie Garzo: is bacon prior to galliieo, or the other wat around?
[13:28] Herman Bergson: falsificcation will become an important issue in modern philosophy of science
[13:28] Herman Bergson: it means that you can collect data that confirm an observation...all tomatos are red...
[13:29] Herman Bergson: but that doesnt imply that really ALL tomatos are red..past present and future ones...
[13:30] Herman Bergson: so it is more efficient to search for a falsification of that statement...go and find a blue tomato, a non red one
[13:30] Maphisto Mapholisto: null hypothesis
[13:30] Herman Bergson: at least you then know for sure that NOT ALL tomatos are red
[13:30] Gemma Cleanslate: ah
[13:30] Riven Flare: in other words.. find what doesn't match
[13:31] Maphisto Mapholisto: find the exception to your guess
[13:31] Herman Bergson: Yes Riven..
[13:31] Alarice Beaumont: not just looking for the ones which fit.. just open the eyes.
[13:31] Herman Bergson: Bacon and galileo were contemporaries
[13:31] Garvie Garzo: thx
[13:32] Alarice Beaumont: one learns more from falsifications then from the same correct things
[13:32] Herman Bergson: learn at least that something is NOT the case
[13:32] Alarice Beaumont: and then one can go deeper!
[13:32] AristotleVon Doobie: eliminate the negative
[13:33] Herman Bergson: You formulate a hypothesis and you try to falsify it
[13:33] Alarice Beaumont: learn why most are going one way!
[13:33] skep Book: then it looks like in some ways mankind has taken a few steps bach from that time
[13:33] Herman Bergson: what do you mean Skep?
[13:33] skep Book: less observent more closed minded
[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: I think the opposite?
[13:34] Riven Flare: more desire in today's time of wanting war instead of the pursuit of thought
[13:34] Herman Bergson: I would say that before Bacon the philosophers were close minded
[13:34] skep Book: yes
[13:34] hope63 Shepherd: come on riv.. read any history book..
[13:34] oola Neruda: it is hard to get funded for something politicians aren't into or understand
[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: on a narrow path
[13:35] Maphisto Mapholisto: which doesn't leave much, oola
[13:35] oola Neruda: nods
[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: must get reelected
[13:35] Riven Flare: well Hope other countries than the US seem to desire thought more..
[13:35] Herman Bergson: Well in Bacon's days King James wasnt impressed by bacon's scientific ideas and planns.
[13:36] skep Book: yes it cost him much
[13:36] Maphisto Mapholisto: he was too busy writing the bible
[13:36] hope63 Shepherd: i thought he took to much
[13:36] AristotleVon Doobie: cant let the truth set too many free
[13:36] Herman Bergson: Most important to learn from Bacon is that the idea of growth and progress was introduced in Western philosophy
[13:36] skep Book: yes
[13:37] hope63 Shepherd: grandfather of globalization..
[13:37] Gemma Cleanslate: ahha
[13:37] Maphisto Mapholisto: ah
[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: hmmm
[13:37] skep Book: must consider the world he lived in
[13:38] Herman Bergson: It is interesting to see that nowadys there is a group that sees Bacon as the founding father of scientific development
[13:38] Ze Novikov: interesting
[13:38] Herman Bergson: and an opposing group that sees him as the founding father of human imperialism...devastating this world...imperialist masters over nature
[13:39] AristotleVon Doobie: I can see that, and lucere is the grandfather of globilization
[13:39] Maphisto Mapholisto: the belief in progress certainly contains its dangers
[13:39] Herman Bergson: yes Maph.....what progress....that is the question
[13:39] Riven Flare: yes progess means we should think should we do this more than can we
[13:40] Maphisto Mapholisto: yes, or that our culture is 'higher' than their culture
[13:40] Herman Bergson: For Bacon ..he wanted to make man master of the creation
[13:40] skep Book: but there are many different ideas of what progress
[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: lol
[13:40] Herman Bergson: above creation...
[13:41] Maphisto Mapholisto: exploiting the enviroment has given us global warming - thanks Francis
[13:41] Herman Bergson: yes...Skep...that is an issue of our days
[13:41] Herman Bergson: you could say that...
[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: Cant blame Francis, blame greed
[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: Unrestrained use of the ancient brain.
[13:42] Maphisto Mapholisto: but he helped make greed respectable
[13:43] Herman Bergson: As long it was in the name of progress
[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: Little boys with dangerous toys.
[13:43] Gemma Cleanslate: :-))
[13:43] skep Book: no he was to him helping
[13:43] hope63 Shepherd: maff.. but when was greed unrespectable..
[13:43] Maphisto Mapholisto: yes, he was, skep
[13:43] Riven Flare: man makes an 'oops' and looks to blame
[13:43] Herman Bergson: Yes Skep...his goal was respecatble...he wanted to improve the conditions of life
[13:44] AristotleVon Doobie: yes Riven
[13:44] Maphisto Mapholisto: banking was once called usury, Hope
[13:44] Herman Bergson: and he was convinced that better science would do the job
[13:44] skep Book: and if he and many others had not we would not be here
[13:44] Riven Flare: science is not the problem its what man does with it
[13:44] Herman Bergson: true...
[13:44] hope63 Shepherd: by whom.. those who were even more greedy than those who ursurped..
[13:44] AristotleVon Doobie: We just have to suppress the Hyde in all us Jekells
[13:45] Herman Bergson: So there are many definitions for the concept of progress
[13:45] Gemma Cleanslate: DANCE ALARM !! :""""^^DANCE ALARM::""^^""
[13:45] AristotleVon Doobie: What?
[13:45] Alarice Beaumont: ;-)
[13:45] Gemma Cleanslate: oh so sorry
[13:45] Maphisto Mapholisto: lol
[13:45] Gemma Cleanslate: lol
[13:45] Maphisto Mapholisto: lol
[13:45] AristotleVon Doobie: Boogie time
[13:45] skep Book: lol
[13:46] Maphisto Mapholisto: go Gem
[13:46] Ishtar Ihnen: lollllll
[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: :)
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: oh my
[13:46] Herman Bergson: Ok
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: i do have to leave
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: lol
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: Real life calls
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: i am afraid
[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: Ok bye
[13:46] Herman Bergson: Ok...
[13:46] Osrum Sands: Gets in the way at times
[13:46] Alarice Beaumont: bye Gemma :-)
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: i wil read the blog
[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
[13:46] Herman Bergson: Bye Gemma..:-)
[13:47] Ishtar Ihnen: bye gemma
[13:47] Maphisto Mapholisto: bye, gem, lol
[13:47] Herman Bergson: get back to the issue....
[13:47] Herman Bergson: maybe it is interesting to think for yourself about the meaning of the word progress...
[13:47] AristotleVon Doobie: Ok I like this guy Bacon
[13:48] Herman Bergson: what is means, and when you apply it to different fields...does it mean the same?
[13:48] Riven Flare: personally think progess should only be used for anything that AIDS th whole
[13:48] Herman Bergson: Can you observe progress in everything, for instance
[13:49] Maphisto Mapholisto: how can progress be measured?
[13:49] AristotleVon Doobie: Either that or the absence of it
[13:49] skep Book: we do not live long enough
[13:49] hope63 Shepherd: today we call change progress
[13:49] oola Neruda: sometimes it is opinion ...
[13:49] Herman Bergson: yes..Maph..that too..but that is a logical deduction from its meaning
[13:49] oola Neruda: have values progressed?
[13:49] AristotleVon Doobie: Isnt progrees = getting better
[13:49] Herman Bergson: things like that Oola..
[13:50] Alarice Beaumont: yes.. I agree Ari
[13:50] Osrum Sands: or is it heading in a direction ?
[13:50] skep Book: by what measurement
[13:50] Maphisto Mapholisto: yes, but better in what way? are there any costs to that? collateral damage? and if so, was the progress worht it?
[13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: I think that is relative to your disposition
[13:50] Herman Bergson: I think we should stop here.....
[13:50] Alarice Beaumont: oh
[13:51] Herman Bergson: Just look at all the questions that come up
[13:51] Riven Flare: we could be here for hours on this
[13:51] Ishtar Ihnen: very interesting...
[13:51] Herman Bergson: You need to do research on that concept...
[13:51] Alarice Beaumont: yes.. it's interesting
[13:51] Herman Bergson: That is my point.....
[13:51] AristotleVon Doobie: Well I do not think you can shoot the messenger.
[13:51] skep Book: so he just set a standard to measure anything
[13:51] Herman Bergson: for hours,,but soon we would be running in circles...
[13:52] Maphisto Mapholisto: depends if he is carrying a gun, Aristo
[13:52] AristotleVon Doobie: :)
[13:52] Herman Bergson: what you need in a situation like have to go out and study the concept..get external input...
[13:52] AristotleVon Doobie: Yes what Bacon said
[13:52] Herman Bergson: read about it...look for new views...
[13:53] Herman Bergson: what you and I think about progress , you know....
[13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: Do away with the Idol in you life
[13:53] Alarice Beaumont: we could look up the official definiton to start with
[13:53] Herman Bergson: this is an example of how to continue my class after philosopher 100
[13:53] Maphisto Mapholisto: have bacon for breakfast
[13:54] Osrum Sands: you mean after the themes ?
[13:54] Ishtar Ihnen: lolll
[13:54] Herman Bergson: yes Alarice...and maybe we could have a number of sessions on all the new input on the concept of progress
[13:54] oola Neruda: would people a hundred years from now agree with the conclusions we might draw...or are our conclusions simply relative
[13:54] AristotleVon Doobie: relative I think
[13:54] Riven Flare: its all perceptions
[13:54] Osrum Sands: everything is relative
[13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: because I am the center of the universe
[13:55] Herman Bergson: Uh issue...relativism.....
[13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: and all things are relative to me
[13:55] Herman Bergson: really there is so much to deal with
[13:55] Osrum Sands: also truth
[13:55] Osrum Sands: right
[13:55] Osrum Sands: etc
[13:55] Osrum Sands: many themes
[13:55] Osrum Sands: like Aris central role in our world
[13:55] Osrum Sands: hahaha
[13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: :))
[13:55] Herman Bergson: yes...and my point is that when we start discussing a theme now from scratch
[13:56] Riven Flare: ohh well he's not center of mine
[13:56] Herman Bergson: we all will say what we already know about it...
[13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: My point Riven
[13:56] Herman Bergson: but I want to start a discussion on a theme when everybody has stuffed his brain with new information first
[13:57] Maphisto Mapholisto: my brain feels stuffed already, lol
[13:57] Alarice Beaumont: LOL then we need some time to let it sink!
[13:57] hope63 Shepherd: ari has satellites circling around him .. mostly women .riv
[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: :)))))
[13:57] Riven Flare: some how it doesn't suprise me
[13:57] Ishtar Ihnen: hahahaaha
[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: what do you propose herman?
[13:58] Herman Bergson: Well..then I thank you for your presence and contributions to the discussion for today..:-)
[13:58] hope63 Shepherd: sorry herman... what theme
[13:58] Garvie Garzo: thank you
[13:58] Herman Bergson: What I propose.....?
[13:58] Osrum Sands: Thanks one and all - must away
[13:58] Herman Bergson: First we have to get educated and finish this series
[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: about the discussion
[13:58] Osrum Sands: CU next time
[13:59] hope63 Shepherd: why not give us a special theme going with the philosopher we talak about so we can concentrate on that..
[13:59] Herman Bergson: then we can work on themes
[13:59] Riven Flare: the point Hope was to learn the philophers first the ideas after
[13:59] Herman Bergson: Yes...and Hope that would be too much..
[14:00] Herman Bergson: I think we have found a nice balance between lecture and discussion here now
[14:00] hope63 Shepherd: point is that every philospoper can't be dealt with in 20 minutes.. but we should concentrate discussing a major point.. the major point herman could give us..
[14:00] AristotleVon Doobie: I am satisfied with the course you have chosen.
[14:01] Herman Bergson: we deal with every philospher in 60 minutes...that's all they'll get....
[14:01] AristotleVon Doobie: yes
[14:01] Alarice Beaumont: LOL
[14:01] hope63 Shepherd: ok.. but last lecture. the discussion left the tracks too often.. though interesting in itself..
[14:01] AristotleVon Doobie: plus study
[14:01] Alarice Beaumont: so many questions and ideas!
[14:02] Herman Bergson: that doesnt matter...the discussion is free and I try to control it more or less..:-)
[14:02] AristotleVon Doobie: gives me things to dwell on
[14:02] hope63 Shepherd: ok boss..
[14:02] Herman Bergson: yes ..the more questions and ideas and open ends the better, I think
[14:03] AristotleVon Doobie: Just poke my mind all you want.
[14:03] Maphisto Mapholisto: agree
[14:03] Riven Flare: gives people something to think on
[14:03] Maphisto Mapholisto: yes
[14:03] Maphisto Mapholisto: RL calls ... bye all
[14:03] AristotleVon Doobie: bye Maph
[14:03] hope63 Shepherd: bye maff..
[14:03] Ishtar Ihnen: ciao maphisto
[14:03] Herman Bergson: Bye Maph
[14:04] Maphisto Mapholisto: till next time ... bye herman, and thnx
[14:04] Manoly Demina: bye Maphisto
[14:04] Herman Bergson: Well..class dismissed..:-)

Posted by herman_bergson on 2007-12-18 18:11:38

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