Adam Smith was a friend of David Hume. It is about 1750, a professor of logic at the University of Glasgow, Scotland. He was not just a philosopher but even more one of the most influential political economists, but that after he became well known because of his moral philosophy.
It is so amazing to see that really everything went through a major change in this period from 1750 to 1850, not only philosophy, but also science and in Smith's case economy. Nothing would be the same, as it was before.
Economically Europe was dominated by what is called Mercantilism: the quitessence of it was that the State controls all trade to improve the economical position of the state. An effective method to be able to finance all the wars.
And also here we see this emancipation process. In science the Church had to let go and here in ecomomics we see the same process take place: the state had to let go and Adam Smith, the first one in the next 6 philosophers offered the building blocks for liberalism.
But not before he had formulated a moral philosophy. Yet there is a relation with his economical theory, in which he formulated the theory that man primarily pursues his selfinterest and that this, unintended, also benifits the interests of the community as a whole.
An example: when someone begins a business he does this only out of selfinterest, but unintended this has positive effects for society too. He creates jobs, offers a product, which might have been harder to obtain before. And this all in a free market. No monopoly of the state anymore.
A nice theory, but history shows clearly that this selfinterest was not exactly a philantropic gesture of the rich and wealthy industrials. And all had read Adam Smith's masterpiece" The Wealth of Nations".
He wrote it ten years after the publication of his "Theory of Moral Sentiments". The greater part of the book is an account of moral psychology. Only after he has settled the psychological questions does Smith turn, in the last seventh of the work, to moral philosophy.
The mainstay of Smith's moral psychology is sympathy. Sympathy is our fellow feeling with the passions or affections of another person. Smith formulates it like this:
Whatever is the passion which arises from any object in the person principally concerned,an analogous emotion springs up at the thought of his situation, in the breast of every attentive spectator.
Smith does not focus on the primary emotion or passion observed only, but in particular on the situation too. A man in rage would not immediately fill our heart with sympathy, but when we know the whole situation (his purse was stolen) we would sympathize with him.
Throughout his discussion of our moral psychology, Smith assumes the general acceptance of beneficence and justice as a social virtue. Alltogether he has - and we see it reflected in his theory of econimics - an optimistic and positive idea about man.
In his moral philosophy he is mainly concerned with two questions: Wherein does virtue consist and what power of faculty of the mind recommends virtue to us?
First, virtue is the proper government and direction of all our affections - propriety. Second, virtue is the judicious pursuit of our own private interests - prudence. And third, virtue lies in the exercise of of only those affections which aim at hapiness of others - benevolence.
What faculty of the mind recommends virtue Smith had no clear answer. Definitely not reason. He rejected it as a source of disctinction between virtue and vice because reason can not render any action either agreeable or disagreeable to the mind for its own sake.
The first perceptions of right and wrong must be derived from an immediate sense of agreeableness or disagreeableness of the actions. In other words, you need to SEE what is happening first.
For Smith sympathy, a recognized human phenomenon, is the source of a range of feelings which provide a foundation for virtue. So we may conclude that Adam Smith was a sympathetic man with a positive and optimistic belief in mankind.
The Discussion
[13:36] Herman Bergson: So muchon Adam Smith
[13:37] Herman Bergson: If you have questions or remarks..plz ffree..:-)
[13:37] Ze Novikov: does he talk at all about preceptions ours and those of others?
[13:37] Siena Masala: ok but he relied on a higher authority - in the sense of an 'invisible hand
[13:38] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: did Smith advocate what we would today call laissez faire capitalism?
[13:38] Herman Bergson: Smith was an empiricist, Ze..that is for sure
[13:38] Ze Novikov: umm
[13:38] Osrum Sands: Herman, John Nash developed the economic theory of comparative advantage. If you know it, do you think it can be said that it came out of Smiths thougths of self interest ?
[13:38] Rodney Handrick: I think his theories were used in the development of labor unions
[13:39] Ganymede Blackburn: Siena- I don't think 'the invisible hand' was a higher authority, as much as an emergent property of markets
[13:39] Mickorod Renard: was his sypathy universal, ot restricted to his individual group/ country needs
[13:39] Herman Bergson: Just hold on....!!
[13:39] Siena Masala: his belief in mankind was founded upon a desire for self-intersest but also that this self-interest by osmosis would benefit all mankind
[13:39] Rodney Handrick: hmm...
[13:39] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: one of Smith's key contributions to our understanding of the working of economics is the efficacy of the division of labour, he cited a weaver or something
[13:40] Herman Bergson: Not so many remarks at a time plz
[13:40] Cailleach Shan: He couldn't have had universal sympathy, he would have had to have had experience of the whole world.
[13:40] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: he in many ways has become politicised, the right and left-centre claim him
[13:40] Herman Bergson: Smith had some- in my opinion - naive belief in the benevolence of man...
[13:41] Siena Masala: ok Ganymede i grant you that distinction however - the fact remains that there is a controlling power
[13:41] Sasha Dalgleish: Herman, would it be fair to say, Smith was not looking at the whole picture of society, but merely a small portion of what the Good life is/was?
[13:41] Herman Bergson: His main point was that selfinterest had unintended positive effects for society
[13:41] Sasha Dalgleish: nods
[13:41] Herman Bergson: Yes I agree Sasha
[13:41] Osrum Sands: and that is my thought re John Nash !
[13:42] Rodney Handrick: hmm...
[13:42] Dar Innis: but too much of a good thing can be disastrous, as many think self-interest alone is the best way to run a market
[13:42] Ganymede Blackburn: Second that, Dar.
[13:42] arabella Ella: but herman the unintended positive effects could be exploited for the wrong purposes i suppose?
[13:42] Herman Bergson: You see this with other philosophers too..they develop a specific idea and work from there
[13:42] Rodney Handrick: Self-interest is one thing...greed is another!
[13:43] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: the wealth of nations is still today regarded as the bible of economics and sets out expertly how the free market works, its principles are just as relevant today as the few centuries past when it was first publishd
[13:43] Siena Masala: is his postulation that self-interest has a wider benefit
[13:43] Sasha Dalgleish: Wouldn't it be fair to say that most people strive to have a good life-why there are many casts or levels in society, where what seems to be a good life to one, may not really be a good life?
[13:43] Cailleach Shan: Do you think Smith was wrong in his assertion that we are basically coming from a place of love?
[13:43] Rodney Handrick: Self-interest is subjective
[13:43] Dar Innis: yeah, it seems that past a certain level of wealth, there is no benefit to happiness, statistically
[13:43] Herman Bergson: If a good life is growing fat, you have a point Sasha
[13:44] Mickorod Renard: the world has many seperate markets , all vying to exploit the other
[13:44] Sasha Dalgleish: true, but then you go back to individual interest of what is considered a good life for that person, somewhat what Smith was doing his own interest... shurgs...
[13:44] Herman Bergson: Yes....Western economies have moved poverty to another part of the world for instance
[13:45] Siena Masala: but sasha, you are talking of percepcetions - who makes the standard of a 'good life'
[13:45] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: he godfathered the concept of efficiency, laid out plainly what motorised economic development most productibely
[13:45] Dar Innis: i dont think thats true herman
[13:45] arabella Ella: but herman poverty is a relative concept and it still exists in the West in different forms
[13:45] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: his work has been born out to be true
[13:45] AristotleVon Doobie: I think what Mr. Smith is saying is that we are all individual cogs in the machine. Self-oiling cogs and this makes the machine runs at its optimum as long as we maintain our self-interest.
[13:46] Sasha Dalgleish: Isn't life all about perceptions?
[13:46] Siena Masala: a good life in my opinon is one that is free from need
[13:46] Dar Innis: check out gapminder.com for statistics in a nice format
[13:46] Siena Masala: basic
[13:46] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: isnt the good life more aristotelian
[13:46] Cailleach Shan: Smith was living in Glasgow, Scotland... that was not a rich and encouraging environment.
[13:46] Mickorod Renard: yes ari,, as long as there is enough to go around
[13:46] Siena Masala: hahahaha
[13:46] Sasha Dalgleish: smiles
[13:46] Siena Masala: no that is surplus
[13:47] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: he was a fellow of the enlightenment
[13:47] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: a practical man in many ways
[13:47] Siena Masala: we only need for existence 'enough' however commerce requires surplus
[13:48] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: didnt he have a trip to paris where he met Voltaire
[13:48] AristotleVon Doobie: It is funny how the term "liberal' has done a 180 degree change in meaning as far a the state.
[13:48] Siena Masala: so AIR
[13:48] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: no rousseau i think
[13:48] Herman Bergson: Well...
[13:48] Siena Masala: LIBERAL now can mean licence to do wrong
[13:49] Siena Masala: A change in meaning or understanding
[13:49] Herman Bergson: We may conclude that Smith's optimistic idea of unintended benifits of selfinterest was a little too naive
[13:50] Dar Innis: got to agree there
[13:50] Herman Bergson: When you look at the position of the working people around 1880 in the big industries in England..
[13:50] arabella Ella: Siena it all depends in which context you use the word Liberal
[13:50] Siena Masala: as Mrs Thatcher thought in the early 80s she expected people who had made milions to be philanthopic but none had the beliefs of the evanglisicst
[13:51] Herman Bergson: people were exploited and underpaid....that is what we now do with the Thirld World countries
[13:51] Cailleach Shan: The 'Trickle Down' theory.. it never works
[13:51] AristotleVon Doobie: I believe as long as self-interests remains individulal it is well postulated, it is when it become group self-interest is where it becomes perverted
[13:51] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: was he naive because others were more agreable to Adam Smith's economic principles but were disagreeable towards those unintended social benefits/knock-ons. i.e. they acted in purely economic self-interest and not the rounded self-interest that Smith wished to be the abiding way for one to live their life by
[13:51] arabella Ella: altho today CSR is generally accepted by most large organisations
[13:51] Siena Masala: so I conclude that if you persue the theory of adam smith you must also have a belief in altruistic view of life
[13:51] arabella Ella: someone has their voice on??
[13:52] Ganymede Blackburn: herman is
[13:52] Herman Bergson: What is CSR Arabella?
[13:52] Dar Innis: doesn't hurt to actually see how wealth and health have been developing: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/140
[13:52] Khayyam Kurosawa: corporate social responsibility.....a farce....
[13:52] arabella Ella: CSR is Corporate Social Responsibility
[13:52] arabella Ella: it is not always a farce Khayyam as you well know
[13:52] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: Smith also was anti-slavery, citing that the economic grounds were counter-productive because a slave isnt motivated etc to their potential etc
[13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: And as long as CSR is voluntary then it is not an affront to liberty
[13:53] arabella Ella: Siena your voice is still on it seems
[13:53] Khayyam Kurosawa: no true......but its far from where it should be...isnt it?
[13:53] Siena Masala: ooop sorry
[13:54] Khayyam Kurosawa: heard of the UN norms on human rights and businnes arabell?
[13:54] arabella Ella: yes CSR is far from where it should be but social enterpreneurship may perhaps be showing the right route for organisations to pursue
[13:54] Mickorod Renard: sympathy is always gonna be metred out in pecking order, self, family, friends, country etc
[13:55] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: CSR is bascially working in the interests of stakeholders, it seems to me that the shareholder hs become treated as the only important stakeholder unless external pressure is placed on a company'sactions
[13:55] Khayyam Kurosawa: yes........
[13:55] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: its a front
[13:55] Khayyam Kurosawa: public pressure is behind it...its basically risk managment for most companies..
[13:55] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: with a friendy face
[13:55] arabella Ella: NGOs are the ones who are putting pressure on big organisations to go for more CSR
[13:55] Khayyam Kurosawa: not to say that they do good things cause of that..
[13:55] Sasha Dalgleish: smiles, what else did Smith do?:)
[13:56] Rodney Handrick: ngo's?
[13:56] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: its what other ppl did
[13:56] Khayyam Kurosawa: NGO's lobby for UN norms.....so that it finally stops from becoming voluntary only...(CSR)
[13:56] arabella Ella: NGO - Non Governmental Organisations like environmental organisations
[13:56] Khayyam Kurosawa: but companies lobby against it...so far for their commitment...
[13:56] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: the question should be what applications did wealth of nations have
[13:56] Rodney Handrick: ok...thanks Arabella
[13:56] Khayyam Kurosawa: as long as CSR is voluntary it wont lead to what it should...
[13:56] arabella Ella: what applications do you think it had AI?
[13:57] Herman Bergson: Well...Adam Smith was the start of our big debate...:-)
[13:57] Ze Novikov: lol
[13:57] Rodney Handrick: I believe he still is Herman
[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: Smith, I think was instrumentmental in confirming the rights of the individulal and reveling his contribution the welfare of socety as a whole
[13:57] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: vast, technicaly to set the context Adam Smith was in a pre-capitalist time, that is it was a mercantilist climate
[13:58] Cailleach Shan: When they never had to consider the finite resources of our planet.
[13:58] Herman Bergson: At least we never had such an avelange of remakrs and opinions in a class like today..:-)
[13:58] Herman Bergson: So Adam Smith hit a nerve...
[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: I think Smith has stired the 'think pot'
[13:58] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: he helped to shape industry's productive capacity and thus spearhead economic advancement by incorporating his basic ideas as outlined earlier
[13:58] Siena Masala: indeed
[13:59] Herman Bergson: Yes...it is a remarkable observation....
[13:59] Mickorod Renard: he even got his picture on our uk £20 note
[13:59] Siena Masala: hahaha
[13:59] Herman Bergson: and yet it is based on an optimistic view on man and his benevolence...
[13:59] Siena Masala: big deal
[13:59] Ze Novikov: heehee
[13:59] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: im off to watch the southbank show on sky arts, its been an excellent discusson Herman, i appreciate what you are doing, goodnight
[13:59] Herman Bergson: So we must assume that he believed that man is intrinsic good
[13:59] Sasha Dalgleish: smiles
[13:59] AIRevolvingEvolutionsDoorBY Schism: ciao all
[14:00] Siena Masala: but it fell at the first fence in the 80s
[14:00] Sasha Dalgleish: Ciao Air
[14:00] Rodney Handrick: Goodnight Air
[14:00] Dar Innis: later air
[14:00] Herman Bergson: Ok...Air..:-)
[14:00] Siena Masala: ciao Aai
[14:00] Cailleach Shan: cu Air
[14:00] Siena Masala: air
[14:00] Ganymede Blackburn: Take care, AIR. :)
[14:00] Ze Novikov: bb
[14:00] arabella Ella: bye AI
[14:00] Mickorod Renard: bye air
[14:00] Alarice Beaumont: bye
[14:01] Herman Bergson: Well, my friends, this was touch.....
[14:01] Herman Bergson: but to get back to history....
[14:01] Herman Bergson: it is interesting to see what idea a man like Smith had about the nature of man
[14:02] Rodney Handrick: I agree Herman
[14:02] Mickorod Renard: yes, nice
[14:02] Sasha Dalgleish: true Herman
[14:02] AristotleVon Doobie: yes and I see the indivual man standing tall
[14:02] Herman Bergson: and it is interesting to keep a close eye on that opinion and how it will develop through time
[14:03] Herman Bergson: belief has moved from a belief in god to a belief in man and his benevolence
[14:03] Khayyam Kurosawa: as man created god thats not so strange...
[14:03] herman Bergson smiles
[14:03] AristotleVon Doobie: and surely man is where altruism begins
[14:04] arabella Ella: and woman too?
[14:04] Herman Bergson: we have followed this development since the Greek and end up as indiviuals now in 1750
[14:04] Dar Innis: there is alltruistic behavior in other animals
[14:04] Siena Masala: ciao all sorry but much lag tonight see you soon
[14:04] Cailleach Shan: YAY!!! Let's hear it for the 51% of the world population Ara.
[14:04] arabella Ella: bye Siena
[14:04] Rodney Handrick: Bye Siena
[14:04] AristotleVon Doobie: well I speak in general tems Arabella, I know women contribute as much
[14:04] Alarice Beaumont: c u Siena
[14:04] Ganymede Blackburn: Bye, Siena. Nice meeting you. :)
[14:04] Mickorod Renard: bye sien
[14:04] Herman Bergson: Yes Arabella...women too....but still with little steps
[14:05] arabella Ella: sorry Ari but as you know most of us have spent our entire lives being told everything is and always was done by males ... so i could not resist
[14:05] Herman Bergson: our next philosopher is a woman, Arabella.....the first who makes a stand for equal rights
[14:05] Rodney Handrick: Well that another discussion for another time...
[14:05] arabella Ella: so Ari it was not personal
[14:05] AristotleVon Doobie: :) I am not a believer in such fairy tales
[14:05] Dar Innis: when it comes to looking at world wealth statistics, hans roslings talk at teds rule
[14:05] Alarice Beaumont: got a go.. sorry.. bye everybody
[14:06] Dar Innis: talks at ted, rather, lol
[14:06] Dar Innis: bye alarice
[14:06] AristotleVon Doobie: I know who rules the worl LOL
[14:06] Rodney Handrick: Bye Alarice
[14:06] Mickorod Renard: bye ala
[14:06] arabella Ella: yes Dar I met Hans at a conference in Sweden last summer and he is brilliant
[14:06] Dar Innis: nice arabella
[14:06] Herman Bergson: Who is Hans?
[14:07] Dar Innis: well, i've never met him
[14:07] Herman Bergson: neither did I...:-)
[14:07] Rodney Handrick: Yes, who is Hans?
[14:07] Khayyam Kurosawa: depends which hans..i met some hanses...
[14:07] Herman Bergson grins
[14:07] Mickorod Renard: what is his take on smith
[14:08] Dar Innis: i'm trying to get the link to his speakers page on ted.com
[14:08] Dar Innis: here we go: http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/view/id/90
[14:08] arabella Ella: Hans Rosling is a Swedish economist who has an interesting talk on TED on line which is an annual conference in the states ... lots of interesting videos on the TED site tho
[14:08] Dar Innis: the statistic visualization methods rocks
[14:09] Herman Bergson: ok...sounds interesting...
[14:09] Rodney Handrick: Thanks Dar
[14:09] Sasha Dalgleish: nods
[14:09] arabella Ella: yes definitely Dar he gave the same presentation when i saw him in sweden tho
[14:09] Herman Bergson: a bit beyond the skope of my class....but Adam Smith was here..:-)
[14:09] Mickorod Renard: yea
[14:10] Dar Innis: i first encountered the presentation his son made for google tech talks
[14:10] AristotleVon Doobie: Bravo Adam Smith
[14:10] Dar Innis: well, its relevant to the idea that the west has been exporting poverty
[14:10] Herman Bergson: Yes Aristotle...it is amazing to see how much his ideas still concern us...
[14:10] AristotleVon Doobie: yes I think so
[14:11] Mickorod Renard: i believe smiths methods are being adapted and used widly today
[14:11] Rodney Handrick: I have to read about Hans Rosling
[14:11] Herman Bergson: Yes Mickorod I think so too...but we have to ad more social control to it
[14:11] Dar Innis: i think smith's ideas have been taken a bit far for the self-interests of those who have economic power and want more
[14:12] Herman Bergson: yes Dar...what has to be added is the concept of sharing equally
[14:12] Sasha Dalgleish: Very good discussion...thank you herman, see you next time:)
[14:13] AristotleVon Doobie: The 'powerful' will use whatever tool handy to maintain and increase poser, eg the war on terror
[14:13] Rodney Handrick: And that's the problem
[14:13] Herman Bergson: Bye Sasha..:-)
[14:13] Mickorod Renard: bye sash
[14:13] Sasha Dalgleish: bye all:)
[14:13] Ganymede Blackburn: Goodbye, Sasha. :)
[14:13] Dar Innis: oh my, heHans swollowed a bayonet, lol
[14:13] Rodney Handrick: Bye Sasha
[14:13] Osrum Sands: People read Smiths Economic theory and forget his moral theories
[14:13] Mickorod Renard: yes i agree osrum
[14:13] Osrum Sands: economics is war by another means
[14:14] Herman Bergson: Maybe that is true Osrum
[14:14] Dar Innis: economy is force
[14:14] Herman Bergson: Yes..the money and the power..
[14:14] Dar Innis: you need economy to win wars, not the other way around
[14:14] Mickorod Renard: man selects which moral suits best at the time
[14:15] Herman Bergson: Yes Dar...and That is the big change of 1750...
[14:15] AristotleVon Doobie: I think that what Smith is saying is that what is good for the individual is good for the whole, and that the golden rule shoudl apply
[14:15] Herman Bergson: before that time you fought a war to increase your wealth
[14:15] Rodney Handrick: Do you think it will change back?
[14:15] Herman Bergson: no Rod..I guess that is impossible
[14:16] Khayyam Kurosawa: ? why wars now then herman..isnt it the same?
[14:16] hope63 Shepherd: no dar.. the economy of russia couldn't get hold of the afghans.. ideas of what man thought best for him prevailed.. by all of you...
[14:16] AristotleVon Doobie: war is a tool of the military-industrial comples to redistribute wealth
[14:16] Herman Bergson: now the wars are to safeguard your economy....control oil and you're ok
[14:16] Rodney Handrick: Bye Hope
[14:16] Ganymede Blackburn: Farewell, Hope. ;)
[14:16] Ganymede Blackburn: What a dreary thing to say... :p
[14:16] Dar Innis: later hope
[14:16] Mickorod Renard: bye hope
[14:17] Dar Innis: not like the afghans were fighting alone tho, lol
[14:17] Rodney Handrick: It's true
[14:17] Khayyam Kurosawa: dont you think wars are also a result of personal feelings....machosism..for example? look at chavez shouting at colombia..or bush really wanting to deal with his farther's enemy..i think individual decisions are underestimated..
[14:17] Herman Bergson: the afghans are defending their opium production
[14:18] Dar Innis: i wish people took the idea of economic force more seriously
[14:18] Rodney Handrick: good point Khay
[14:18] AristotleVon Doobie: It is all about gathering the most resoures you can
[14:18] Cailleach Shan: Has was ever benefitted anyone in the long run.
[14:18] Dar Innis: we prolly could have settled the iraq war much faster and cheaper with buyouts
[14:18] Rodney Handrick: True Dar
[14:18] Herman Bergson: yes Khayyam..that it aslo a factor
[14:19] AristotleVon Doobie: and besides there is no declared war
[14:19] Mickorod Renard: yes but it wouldnt have killed so many
[14:19] arabella Ella: isn't there the Bush proclaimed War on Terror for what it is worth?
[14:19] AristotleVon Doobie: war today is an orwellian word
[14:19] Mickorod Renard: mmm?
[14:20] Khayyam Kurosawa: yes...they even create a semantic war lol...good point..
[14:20] Ganymede Blackburn: Do you think Smith encouraged this view of the economic game as a zero-sum game, or discouraged it?
[14:20] Osrum Sands: and an Alice in Wonderland word as well --- it shall mean what we want it to mean
[14:20] Khayyam Kurosawa: they so desperatly want one...
[14:20] AristotleVon Doobie: yes Os
[14:20] Herman Bergson: I have no idea, Ganymede..:-)
[14:21] Dar Innis: i dont think smith had the perspective to anticipate the replacement of nation/mercantile monopolies by industrialists and multinationals
[14:21] Herman Bergson: maybe you can explain what a zero-sum game is?
[14:21] AristotleVon Doobie: and terror is the current emotional string to pull, prior to this it was 'communisim'
[14:21] arabella Ella: yes i agree Ari
[14:21] Mickorod Renard: true
[14:21] Ganymede Blackburn: a zero-sum game is a game where any gains made by one player is a loss to another player.
[14:22] Dar Innis: terror is a tactic, not a movement. i hate political games
[14:22] Herman Bergson: like chess..
[14:22] Ganymede Blackburn: or the other players, as the case may be
[14:22] Ganymede Blackburn: Yes, like chess
[14:22] Cailleach Shan: Like war
[14:22] Dar Innis: winning by having the others lose
[14:22] Khayyam Kurosawa: what will be next?....if they run out of terrorist enemies...chinese? asians in general?....albinos? ....animals..." now us president declares war on animals...'
[14:22] AristotleVon Doobie: The citeizenry must be in fear of something
[14:22] Ganymede Blackburn: war can be a lose-lose proposition too.
[14:23] Herman Bergson: I dont think Smith would support that idea ganymede...in my opinion he was too positive and maybe naive regarding human nature
[14:23] Dar Innis: that neo con psycho/media manipulation horse shit ari
[14:23] AristotleVon Doobie: or rather abnormal psychology
[14:23] Osrum Sands: Levi Strause theory comes into play there a nation needs to have a 'fear' or enemy for its people
[14:23] Mickorod Renard: just cutting the garden back in spring
[14:23] arabella Ella: what will be next? Africa as an unexploited resource
[14:24] Osrum Sands: space
[14:24] Khayyam Kurosawa: thats already exploited...
[14:24] Osrum Sands: south pole
[14:24] Khayyam Kurosawa: the chinese are on top of it...US close second...
[14:24] Dar Innis: yeah, most wedding rings are adorned by the death of poor black people
[14:24] Cailleach Shan: mmmm.... in my country that's Bush
[14:24] Herman Bergson: yes indeed Khayyam
[14:24] Khayyam Kurosawa: space yes...
[14:24] Khayyam Kurosawa: a fight over emptyness....
[14:24] Rodney Handrick: What exploiting the South Pole?
[14:24] AristotleVon Doobie: Yu should learn to speak Chinese
[14:25] arabella Ella: niehow
[14:25] Khayyam Kurosawa: i,m sure 'yu' already does speak chinese..
[14:25] Herman Bergson: ^_^
[14:25] Cailleach Shan: lol
[14:25] Herman Bergson: Allow me to dismiss this class....
[14:25] Rodney Handrick: ok
[14:25] Dar Innis: ok herman
[14:26] Khayyam Kurosawa: okidoki...
[14:26] AristotleVon Doobie: Thank yu Herma for an invigorating class
[14:26] Dar Innis: thanks for the talk, very interesting stuff
[14:26] Herman Bergson: This was a most exciting and interesting discussion. Adam Smith would have enjoyed it
[14:26] Dar Innis: lol
[14:26] Khayyam Kurosawa: thanks to all...
[14:26] Mickorod Renard: yes thanks herman, sorry i missed the last one
[14:26] Ganymede Blackburn: It's been a pleasure listening to you, herman. I'll be back, you can count on that. :)
[14:26] AristotleVon Doobie: Gets better every time
[14:26] Cailleach Shan: Good one Herman...
[14:26] Rodney Handrick: thanks Herman
[14:26] Ze Novikov: yes ty
[14:27] arabella Ella: thank you so much again Herman and i think we are all looking forward to your retirement party soon ;)
[14:27] Mickorod Renard: yeaaaaa
[14:27] Herman Bergson: Is an idea Arabella
[14:27] AristotleVon Doobie: PARTAY!!
[14:27] Dar Innis: lol
[14:27] Cailleach Shan: Yay.... party party..... no wars.
[14:27] AristotleVon Doobie: gotta go folks, good bye to all
[14:27] Herman Bergson: yes Cailleach...that is the spirit
[14:28] Ze Novikov: lol
[14:28] arabella Ella: bye Ari
[14:28] Mickorod Renard: bye ari
[14:28] Dar Innis: later ari
[14:28] Ze Novikov: bb
[14:28] Rodney Handrick: Bye all
[14:28] Osrum Sands: cheers
[14:28] Mickorod Renard: bye rod
[14:29] Osrum Sands: cheers all
[14:29] Osrum Sands: must away
[14:29] Herman Bergson: ok Osrum
[14:29] Mickorod Renard: ok i am off, bye all
[14:29] Herman Bergson: Bye Mickorod..:-)
[14:29] Mickorod Renard: bye herman ty
[14:29] Herman Bergson: Thx Ze..:-)
[14:30] arabella Ella: bye herman thanks again
[14:30] Herman Bergson: Bye Arabella
[14:30] Dar Innis: later arabella
[14:30] Teleo Aeon: bye ara
[14:31] Khayyam Kurosawa: ok herman..was leuk...tot ziens
[14:31] Herman Bergson: ok Kayyam
[14:31] Dar Innis: thanks for the lecture herman
[14:31] Teleo Aeon: Dar can you still download this gapminder software ?
[14:31] Teleo Aeon: yes thanks Herman
[14:31] Dar Innis: go to the website, i dunno
[14:32] Dar Innis: they have a website interface for it
[14:32] Dar Innis: gapminder.com i think
[14:32] Teleo Aeon: yeah...just wondering if it ccan still be downloaded too
[14:32] Dar Innis: heres that link again herman, as i doubt you could catch it earlier http://www.ted.com/index.php/speakers/view/id/90
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