You may be surprised about the title of this lecture, because the whole project is named “Why Science is Right”
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I primarily try to show you the development of the concept of science and the relation between science and reality from a historical perspective.
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However, we paid some extra attention to the question “Why is reality mathematical” and we saw that according to Pythagoras this is the case indeed.
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He used numbers as magical-metaphysical entities, which described the structure of the universe, while Aristotle paid more attention to the way we conceptually describe reality.
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Both approaches existed next to each other in those early days.In fact they are the roots of two lines of thinking since then.
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On the one hand one assumed that our universe is mathematical and the first instance of this was found in astronomy.
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And on the other hand one assumed that out conceptual thought processes could be formalized, which was instantiated by the Aristotelian logic..
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This all related for me to what is happening today. Quintessential in this is the philosophical question of the relation between language and reality.
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In science it is assumed that language represents reality and this reality is described in the specific languages of symbolic logic and mathematics.
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Ordinary language is regarded to be an inadequate tool for real scientific description of reality, because it too difficult to reach unambiguous interpretations.
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Thus we can create a mathematical model of our world or at least of a smal part of our reality. And due to the increased computer power, we may even be inclined to put our faith into these models.
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But as John Adam of Princeton University says, “the ‘art’ of good modeling relies on (i) a sound understanding and appreciation of the problem…;
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(ii) a realistic, but not unnecessarily mathematical representation of the important phenomena; (iii) finding useful solutions, preferably quantitative ones,
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and (iv) interpretation of the mathematical results—yielding insights, predictions, …, and so on. Sometimes the mathematics used can be very simple…;
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indeed, the usefulness of a mathematical model should not be judged by the sophistication of the mathematics, but by its predictive capability, among other factors. Mathematical models are not necessarily ‘‘right’’ …”
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Back to the question how mathematical reality is, we read here terms like “sound understanding”, “realistic representation” and “interpretation of results”.
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For such actions mathematics is not sufficient. The most recent and painful proof is “The mathematical equation that caused the banks to crash”.
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The Black-Scholes equation was the mathematical justification for the trading in derivatives, that plunged the world's banks into catastrophe.
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Here http://www.theguardian.com/science/2012/feb/12/black-scholes-equation-credit-crunch you find an interesting article about this Black-Scholes equation.
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But what made me wonder even more was what I read in my newspaper a week ago. The article begins like this:
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“Not far from the Dutch border, in the German town of Jülich, is a special machine. Black columns with thousands of green lights stand in the shed.
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I count seven of these columns. The thing uses non-stop energy as many as three thousand households together.
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This is JUQUEEN, the second fastest supercomputer in Europe. And soon there is a brain in this supercomputer. Not literally: it is, to be precise, the intention, that it will able to simulate the human brain.
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Henry Markram, neurobioloog aan de École Polytechnique Fédérale (EPFL) in Swiss Lausanne is the big man behind the project, which will cost hundreds of millions of euros.
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Will such a computer and the language, which is used to activate it, be a proper model of reality. I don’t believe in such a project. Here science is wrong.., ignoring fundamental philosophical questions.
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Thank you……. ^_^
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The Discussion
[13:17] ZANICIA Chau: WOW Thank you Harman
[13:17] Lizzy Pleides: Thank you professor!
[13:17] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:18] herman Bergson: If you have any question or remark...the floor is yours :-)
[13:18] Bejiita Imako: the name Black-Scholes got me wondering, Black holes equation maybee is a more suiting name for it after what happened
[13:18] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:18] Loo Zeta: The question is when will computers become sentient in the inevitable singularity of human and computing?
[13:19] Lizzy Pleides: I never heard of this project in Jülich
[13:19] herman Bergson: That is the name it got, Bejiita ^_^
[13:19] Bejiita Imako: hehe ok
[13:19] herman Bergson: Is called The Human Brain Project, Lizzy
[13:19] herman Bergson: Brand new.....
[13:19] herman Bergson: and utter nonsense in my opinion.....
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: think ‘ve read something about that, the tricky part is a machine can never think like we can
[13:20] herman Bergson: 500+ scientists have signed a petition not to waste money on it....EU money!
[13:20] ZANICIA Chau: Quite a frightening concept among those who take it seriously
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: a computer is just a machine consisting of billions of electrical switches
[13:20] ZANICIA Chau: on all levels
[13:20] herman Bergson: yes Zan....
[13:20] herman Bergson: Waht I wanted to say today is...
[13:20] Lizzy Pleides: if it is EU money then it doesn't matter, lol
[13:21] herman Bergson: that we can make models of reality and play with them....but they are not reality
[13:21] Loo Zeta: People in computing leadership like... Steve Jobs, Dwight Prowty, and others have 'downloaded' their brains into neural networking already
[13:21] ZANICIA Chau: as we;re doing at the moment
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: it depends on how you will go on at simulating the brain
[13:21] herman Bergson: Fairy tales Loo...
[13:21] herman Bergson: We not even know what the brain is...
[13:21] Loo Zeta: nope I know Dwight
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: no
[13:22] Loo Zeta: he has done it....
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: thats true
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: but i don’t think a computer can feel in any way for example
[13:22] Lizzy Pleides: probably only a human being can understand another human being
[13:22] herman Bergson: No...Loo..he has linked with some machinery and that machinery may have copied something of what happens in the brain...
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: so can u simulate feelings in a good way then?
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: with a machine
[13:23] herman Bergson: But believe me.....uploading to WHAT?? wont bring back his consciousness
[13:23] ZANICIA Chau: I think the truth is that the scientists involved in the project have actually lost sight of reality, as we generally see it
[13:23] Loo Zeta: Well as a lot of them are autistic can we know the difference?
[13:23] herman Bergson: I think so too, Zan...
[13:23] herman Bergson: Just imagine....it works.....
[13:23] herman Bergson: and the computer says....wow I think, so I am!!!
[13:24] ZANICIA Chau: hehehe
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: question is however how do we feel, its all but chemistry and electrical impulses here too
[13:24] herman Bergson: Would switching of the power after w working day be murder?
[13:24] Loo Zeta: /nods
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: but we are analog, computers are digital
[13:24] Lizzy Pleides: laughs*
[13:24] herman Bergson: and switching o the power the next day....are we dealing with the same mind then???
[13:24] ZANICIA Chau: yikes
[13:25] Loo Zeta: ahh we are more than analogue... we are complex biofeedback mechanisms
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: hmm interesting
[13:25] herman Bergson: Does the conscious computer have human rights???
[13:25] Lizzy Pleides: yes Loo
[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes Loo we are.....
[13:25] herman Bergson: and a "mind" stored in those things on the picture behind me is not
[13:26] Lizzy Pleides: a computer can only be a copy but never be the original
[13:26] ZANICIA Chau: Hahah imagine a robot with a placard saying....rights for computers. Computers rule!
[13:26] Loo Zeta: :)
[13:26] herman Bergson: But it is going to absorb millions of euros.....which could heave been spent on better research
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: hehehe
[13:26] Loo Zeta: 'we are thus we exist'
[13:27] herman Bergson: We already had HAL in Space Odyssee, Zan ^_^
[13:27] herman Bergson: HAL
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: but thats a sci fi
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: not reality
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: a good sci fi though
[13:27] Loo Zeta: closer than you think
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: with a legendary soundtrack
[13:28] Loo Zeta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
[13:28] herman Bergson: Artificial Intelligence from the 90 hasn’t brought us what it promised....
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: no
[13:28] ZANICIA Chau: It's only equiv to the waste of pursuing settlements on the moon etc. The world should rally against all this stuff
[13:28] herman Bergson: and now this project
[13:28] Loo Zeta: it isdeveloping explananatory
[13:28] herman Bergson: I agree Zan...
[13:28] Loo Zeta: faster and faster...
[13:29] herman Bergson: you mean exponential, Loo?
[13:29] Loo Zeta: sorry I guess my spelling useless...... and admits I English
[13:29] herman Bergson: np.....we are multi-lingual here ^_^
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: when it comes to experiments like LHC some good knowledge comes out of the thing at least
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: with this mind simulator we don’t even know if it will give any results at all
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: seems to complicated
[13:30] Loo Zeta: Will we be able to pull the plug on it?
[13:30] Lizzy Pleides: nevertheless the idea is interesting. If you copy somebody's brain you can ask the computer after his death what he would have thaught about a matter
[13:30] herman Bergson: No....but they cover their action by claiming to need ten years or so....
[13:31] ZANICIA Chau: creepy thought, Lizzy!
[13:31] Lizzy Pleides: yes Zan
[13:31] herman Bergson: Yes....finally his wife could ask him....did you cheat on me or not......answer or I pull the plug :-)
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: loool
[13:31] ZANICIA Chau: lol
[13:32] ZANICIA Chau: hahahaha
[13:32] Beertje Beaumont: hahahah
[13:32] Lizzy Pleides: ehehe
[13:32] herman Bergson: I think it is utter nonsense....
[13:32] herman Bergson: to begin with...
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: but maybe he will just come back again when power restores unless u erase the drive
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: like any other computer program
[13:32] herman Bergson: on a philosophical level we have not even a clue how to understand consciousness
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: interesting thought
[13:33] herman Bergson: Mathematical models of reality have clear shortcominfgs...
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: I guess so
[13:33] herman Bergson: we don’t need to worry about that....
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: someone first of all have to make the formulas, u can do misscalculation and then formula is worthless
[13:34] herman Bergson: when you begin to see the model as reality, things go simply wrong...
[13:34] herman Bergson: But the mind in the computer idea is beyond common sense...
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: seem far fetched
[13:35] herman Bergson: It is like we also have tried to create life.....
[13:35] herman Bergson: We put all chemical together....create the right environment....
[13:35] Loo Zeta: Vidz .... ie husband contends there is no such thing as common sense
[13:35] ZANICIA Chau: lol
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:36] herman Bergson: Ok Loo, I might agree with you but it is a different chapter :-)
[13:36] Loo Zeta: and after 28 years of marriage I agree he has none
[13:36] ZANICIA Chau: hahahahaha
[13:36] herman Bergson: lol
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: loool
[13:36] Beertje Beaumont: lol ㋡
[13:36] Lizzy Pleides: lol
[13:37] herman Bergson: But what I wanted to say is that they even never have been able to create a single LIVING cell....
[13:37] herman Bergson: so how do you think you can create aLIVING brain with computers???
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: thats not going to work
[13:38] Lizzy Pleides: not with computers
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: its a machine ao impossible
[13:38] Lizzy Pleides: probably with cell cultures?
[13:38] herman Bergson: Look at the scheme here.....
[13:38] Loo Zeta: Oh hang on that cell tech thingy not that far off.......
[13:38] herman Bergson: That is what they always say, Loo
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: while life is about chemistry and that is not inside ccomputers
[13:38] herman Bergson: Look at the scheme....
[13:39] herman Bergson: Problem of interest ----> SIMPLIFICATIONS....
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: wwoooow my head spins now
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:39] ZANICIA Chau: They ARE replicating like hell though. Whole organs can be replicated but just for healing. The brain is quite something else
[13:39] Loo Zeta: at the moment computing is wires and electricity.....
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:39] herman Bergson: that kills all 1 to 1 relation with reality
[13:39] Loo Zeta: but.... in the future?
[13:40] herman Bergson: Yes Zan....they can do such things....but to begin with ..they need LIVING cells...stem cells
[13:40] herman Bergson: not dead matter
[13:40] ZANICIA Chau: yes
[13:40] Beertje Beaumont: no one can see in the future, maybe we don't need selfthinking computers at all
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: metal silica and electricity can never become alive
[13:41] Loo Zeta: Stem cells can be stored and cultured, I collect them
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes Loo that is what the Artificial Intelligence people always said.....just wait till we have better and faster computers
[13:41] ZANICIA Chau: you kill me, Loo. So funny
[13:41] Loo Zeta: *explains I am a midwife and takes cord samples*
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:42] Loo Zeta: My colleague is a pHD in stem cell research gave it up to look after Mums and babies
[13:43] herman Bergson: II guess the message of today is clear :-))
[13:43] ZANICIA Chau: now that's waste
[13:43] Loo Zeta: He would say 'no'
[13:44] herman Bergson: Who is 'he' and to what statement, Loo? :-)
[13:44] Loo Zeta: Sorry he is a male midwife whom was a stem cell researcher and never regrets changing his job
[13:44] herman Bergson: I see...
[13:44] bergfrau Apfelbaum: that was so interesting! the idea is frightening.... but progress, nonetheless great. ty herman & class!
[13:45] herman Bergson: Guess I have delivered my baby again myself today...again....:-)
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:45] Loo Zeta: :)
[13:45] ZANICIA Chau: hehehe
[13:45] herman Bergson: So thank you all for your participation:-)
[13:45] Loo Zeta: Thanks
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: great class again!
[13:45] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:45] ZANICIA Chau: Bravo Herman once again
[13:45] Beertje Beaumont: Thank you Herman ㋡
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: ok cu soon again
[[13:45] herman Bergson: Thank you Zan
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: time to let my brain spin down a bit
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: with some nice jazz
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:46] ZANICIA Chau: Bye everybody
[13:46] Beertje Beaumont: have a goodnight all:) sweat dreams
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: bye
[13:47] Lizzy Pleides: good night everybody!
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