Tuesday, June 24, 2025

1198: God is dead...

 Nietzsche's famous declaration, "God is dead," first appeared in his 1882 work, "The Gay Science" (German: Die fröhliche Wissenschaft). He also used the phrase in his later work, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra". 


In The Gay Science, Nietzsche writes: "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? 

   

What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us?".


Nietzsche is one of history's most famous philosophers, but a lot of people misunderstand his most famous quotation, "God is dead."

    

Nietzsche didn't really like religion. In fact, he didn't really like any philosophy other than his own. But when he said, "God is dead," he wasn't talking about the God of classical theism. 

  

He was talking about humanity, what we've done, and what those actions mean. "God is dead" is not the triumphant cheer of a dragon-slaying hero, cross-armed atheist at the back of the church.

     

It's more like the shocked whispers of the lost. "God," in this case was the magnetic pull around which we all lived and not the bearded, beneficent old figure of myth. 

  

Before the Enlightenment emphasized science and rationality, God meant certainty, truth, security, and purpose. He was the alpha and the omega and the answer to all of life's questions. 

   

He was the great parent who let the world make sense and for many people this is still the case these days. Without God, Nietzsche goes on to say, it's as if we are falling with no sense of up or down. 

   

There's nothing to grab onto and nothing to steady us at all. It's as if we've been led by the hand all of our lives, and suddenly we are here alone. 

   

"God is dead" is the moment of great awakening and also abandonment. It's when we realize we have to decide for ourselves.

    

Nietzsche meant that we have to reorient ourselves in a world without God. And this feeling of being left alone and to our own devices is both terrifying and empowering.

   

In short, the death of God means nothing more than the experience that the Christian faith has become unbelievable. What is it? Nietzsche describes how Christianity has lost its meaning. 

  

There is no supernatural being that determines good and evil and gives meaning to life. We are on our own.

  

In the previous lectures, we have learned that we can handle that perfectly. Utilitarianism may not answer all moral questions, but it is a good start.

   

The Golden Rule may have its shortcomings, but in many situations a sound basis for moral reasoning. Definitely when we add Kant's Categorical Imperative to the equation.

  

And then there is this view of homo sapiens as a being able to be virtuous, an insight which alrready existed far before the rise of christianity.

  

So, god may be dead, but we are still alive and kicking....

  

Thank you for your attention... the floor is yours..


 Main Sources:

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition

Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
 http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm
Rens Bod:  Waarom ben ik hier? (2024)
Carlo Cipolla: The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (1976)


TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------  


  1 - 100 Philosophers                                              9 May 2009  Start of

  2 - 25+ Women Philosophers                              10 May 2009  this blog

  3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking                               10 May 2009

  4 - Modern Theories of Ethics                              29 Oct  2009

  5 - The Ideal State                                               24 Febr 2010   /   234

  6 - The Mystery of the Brain                                  3 Sept 2010   /   266

  7 - The Utopia of the Free Market                       16 Febr 2012    /   383

  8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism                      5 Sept 2012   /   413

  9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist                             6 Nov  2012   /   426                        

10  - Non-Western Philosophy                               29 May 2013    /   477

11  -  Why Science is Right                                      2 Sept 2014   /   534      

12  - A Philosopher looks at Atheism                        1 Jan  2015   /   557

13  - EVIL, a philosophical investigation                 17 Apr  2015   /   580                

14  - Existentialism and Free Will                             2 Sept 2015   /   586         

15 - Spinoza                                                             2 Sept 2016   /   615

16 - The Meaning of Life                                        13 Febr 2017   /   637

17 - In Search of  my Self                                        6 Sept 2017   /   670

18 - The 20th Century Revisited                              3 Apr  2018    /   706

19 - The Pessimist                                                  11 Jan 2020    /   819

20 - The Optimist                                                     9 Febr 2020   /   824

21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream                8 Oct  2020   /   872

22 - A World Full of Patterns                                    1 Apr 2021    /   912

23 - The Concept of Freedom                                  8 Jan 2022    /   965

24 - Materialism                                                      7 Sept 2022   /  1011

25 - Historical Materialism                                       5 Oct 2023    /  1088

26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist                             9 Jan 2024    /  1102

27 - Artificial Intelligence                                          9 Feb 2024    /  1108

28 - Why Am I Here                                                 6 Sept 2024   /  1139

 

The Discussion


[13:16] 0rd: Is science the new god?

[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:17] herman Bergson: I'd say no, Ord....

[13:17] 0rd: then, what is the basis to say "god is dead" ?

[13:17] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman.

[13:17] herman Bergson: Health is the new religion and the doctors are the priests, in my opinion

[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that we have realized that there is only science

[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the laws of nature

[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no supernatural beings exist guarding our lives

[13:18] herman Bergson: indeed Bejiita

[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Herman

[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least one of the gods

[13:18] Stranger Nightfire: I think that sense of certainty and consensus reality has been being eroded for a few centuries now

[13:18] Max Chatnoir: and our own good sense.

[13:19] Stranger Nightfire: it started to be really done in the early part of the 20th century

[13:19] herman Bergson: What started, Stranger?

[13:19] Stranger Nightfire: I have a quote in my profile from one of the pioneers of quantum physics

[13:20] 0rd: wait, he said "god is dead", but that is am empty statment without proper backup, based on what "God is dead" ?

[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: let me cut and paste it

[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: “Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real. If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.”


- Niels Bohr

[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: We speak a rapidly growing part of the scientific community itself is beginning to consider the strength theorists to be a bunch of fraudsters who don't have any idea what they're talking about

[13:21] herman Bergson: I see... it is like that James Webb telescope in space that sees things that undoes  a lot of basic astronomical insights

[13:22] Max Chatnoir: string theorists?

[13:22] herman Bergson: Like the Big Bang theory Max.....also questionable now

[13:22] Stranger Nightfire: Yes my voice to text strikes again i'm at string theorists

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): At least LHC found the GOD particle before, if that now is a proper name

[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Stranger.

[13:23] 0rd: maybe we could say then "we dont know what the truth is anymore" then

[13:23] herman Bergson: It is not that simple Ord

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and just like that i vanished into quantum space

[13:24] 0rd: XD

[13:24] Max Chatnoir: And now you're back!

[13:24] herman Bergson: We still have to use the concept of truth in a pragmatic way at least

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or i had not the viewer maximized and hit the wrong button

[13:24] 0rd: well, if we will question everything, that should apply to everything

[13:24] herman Bergson: To say that there is no truth implies that you assume the truth of that statement

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa i guess thats the case

[13:25] 0rd: yes! but then, to say "god is dead" is to imply god exists

[13:25] herman Bergson: No, Ord,, that is not what Nietzsche is talking about

[13:25] 0rd: i am saying about the circular logic of anything

[13:26] herman Bergson: In his words god is a metaphor for christian morality

[13:26] herman Bergson: reread the lecture, please

[13:26] Stranger Nightfire: I tend to think 100% truth is something quite unreachable by  Mortal human meat puppets living in the veil of illusions on this planet

[13:26] Stranger Nightfire: nothing is certain

[13:27] 0rd: what based Christian morality is god,

[13:27] herman Bergson: Indeed Stranger, but think of the possibility of contextual truth

[13:27] herman Bergson: within the laws of physics there are true statements to make

[13:27] herman Bergson: or in medicines...medication works...that is true

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:28] herman Bergson: but maybe within the context of medicines alone

[13:28] Stranger Nightfire: People used to talk about the law of gravity as a kind of absolute and currently that also is coming into question scientists are questioning whether we really understand what gravity is at all

[13:29] herman Bergson: The problem is that we also can think of some kind of universal truth as a property of everything, every theory or statement

[13:29] Max Chatnoir: But there is something we call gravity.

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or we would float away

[13:29] herman Bergson: I don't think we KNOW whatgravity is....

[13:30] 0rd: there is something happening to  ojbects, anything else we talk about it is theory

[13:30] Max Chatnoir: We may not really understand it, but we can measure its effects.

[13:30] herman Bergson: We just observe certain physic  behavior of matter

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the problem is gravity worls on MACRO scale so u cant study it with say a particle accelerator because they operate on thr MICRO level

[13:30] herman Bergson: yes MAx, that's what I mean....we cannot deny or ignore its presence

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but constructing something to measure gravity would need to be so enormous it would not fit on this planet

[13:30] Max Chatnoir: And if we get too close to things they tend to dissolve into incomprehensibility.

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and find out what it is

[13:31] 0rd: but "the gravity" is already only a concept. There is something happening to objects, that is all

[13:31] Max Chatnoir: We we know it varies with mass, etc.

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gravity only shows up in masive objects like planets and black holes, between ordinary objects we can hadle the force is inmeasurable

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats why it is so hard to study

[13:32] herman Bergson: A lot of the movements of spacecrafts through our solar system is based on gravity

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well space telescopes have observed this thats true

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): space time bending

[13:33] 0rd: just because we can throw  a ball in a basket, that does not mean we understand what the ball really is

[13:33] Max Chatnoir: And our own mass plays some role in gravitational attraction, right?

[13:33] herman Bergson: it is a ball, Ord :-)

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes but only because the other part attracting us is a gigant planet

[13:33] 0rd: that is only our perception, what it really is, that is a totally different thing

[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a ball is nothing with something around it

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we can measure weight but the actual gravitational field?

[13:34] herman Bergson: and a totally different discussion

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Beertje

[13:34] herman Bergson: Here the question is...can we have morality without a god?

[13:34] 0rd: what is morality?

[13:34] Max Chatnoir: Presumably we can have it if we want it.

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Max

[13:35] herman Bergson: My answer is....yes...no problem

[13:35] 0rd: morality is to divide the world is two ?

[13:35] 0rd: in two*

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it is about what i use to say - dont be evil

[13:35] Stranger Nightfire: I have to wonder what a god has to do with morality

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least thats one part of it

[13:35] herman Bergson: why in two, Ord?

[13:35] 0rd: good and bad

[13:35] 0rd: thigns are good, other are bad

[13:35] Stranger Nightfire: I know that for me the Old Testament is about as immoral a book as I have ever come across

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or the other way, be nice to others

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the simple explanation

[13:35] herman Bergson: Well, there are murderers and there are honest peaceful people for instance

[13:36] Stranger Nightfire: the so called God described in that is a sadistic monster

[13:36] herman Bergson smiles

[13:36] herman Bergson: Yes, Stranger, I am on your side here :-))

[13:36] 0rd: the truth has no sides

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): can opnly agree

[13:36] Max Chatnoir: Not a monster if you are one of his fans.

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): god is no nice guy, at least in wht he order us to basically do according to religios books

[13:37] herman Bergson: Yoy can google it, but based on the OT how many people murdered that god without due process?

[13:37] herman Bergson: more than 2 million

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like no pleasure and joy, sex is a sin blabla

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we should basically live in misery following these

[13:38] herman Bergson: His fans are rather selective readers, Max :-)

[13:39] 0rd: but then, we know what good is to say all that?

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I refuse to live in misery, im the happy n crazy boy!

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that wants to make everyone else happy also

[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :))

[13:39] herman Bergson: Keep going Bejiita :-))

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I will!

[13:40] herman Bergson: As you see, there still is the good in the world

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as u say Herman, most people are ok

[13:41] 0rd: but then, we are assuming we are god that is defining what is good and bad

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to bad a few bad ones with power  can destroy for everyone else

[13:41] herman Bergson: yes we eare Ord... you better get used to it, I guess :-)))

[13:41] 0rd: how we are god?

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa

[13:42] herman Bergson: How we define good and evil

[13:42] herman Bergson: moral and immoral

[13:42] 0rd: exactly, how

[13:42] herman Bergson: Well, we discussed several option in the past lectures

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): easy, causing misery and blowing up people like Trump, Putin,Neth and those maniac kings in Sudan are doing is evil

[13:43] herman Bergson: as I referred to today too

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): making others happy and feeling and being well is good

[13:43] 0rd: if the godel rule is our standard, we cant judge others actions, only our own

[13:43] 0rd: golden*

[13:43] herman Bergson: a utilitarian approach here Bejiita

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and also not destroying the environment by releasing toxic waste ect

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in short dont do harm

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then i guess u are good

[13:44] herman Bergson: A kind of categorical imperative Bejiita :-)

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but thats the simple explanation i guess

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm and biased on what i see happening now

[13:44] Stranger Nightfire: The golden rule is a nice rule of thumb But it does have some logical issues

[13:45] Stranger Nightfire: what if you are a masochist and you want me to hurt you

[13:45] herman Bergson: That would be immoral if you apply the categorical imperative of humanity

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then are you good to me if you hurt me? I guess that's the question u are after

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:46] herman Bergson: Hurting people is a disrespect for human dignity

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true

[13:46] 0rd: you go to the end... a masochist that wants to hurt others, then is also assuming he can do to other anything he wants, so he must allow others to do to him what they want

[13:46] Max Chatnoir: and a disregard for other people's lives

[13:46] herman Bergson: the golden Rule has no answer to your problem indeed Stranger

[13:47] 0rd: and the other will they block him if they dont want, they just ask him to not do it

[13:47] herman Bergson: Kant has

[13:47] 0rd: you go to the end... a masochist that wants to hurt others, then is also assuming he can do to other anything he wants, so he must allow others to do to him what they want

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): reminds me of a funny story before at work, we had a very tall guy working there before and he was followed by some weirdo calling him and wanted to get kicked in the balls by his big feet

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was a while ago but just OMG

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): speaking of hurting others because they want to be hurt

[13:48] 0rd: if he thinks he can do to others what he wants, then he must allow others to do to him what they want

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but thats outside the scope maybee

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i dont know

[13:48] 0rd: and they they simply block him or ask him not to hurt them

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im not into things like that so i would refuse. I dont get how u can get pleasure from such things even

[13:49] herman Bergson: As you see....a lot to think about.....

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but fetishes can be really weird

[13:49] 0rd: XD

[13:49] herman Bergson: I'd say...is good for the weekend...take your time

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[13:49] herman Bergson: and we'll see eachothe again next week

[13:49] herman Bergson: Thank you all again......

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again Herman!

[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:50] 0rd: i also dont get it beijita, but i am always trying to find an explanation, may there is one, i dont know

[13:50] 0rd: thank youuuu

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm me also, sure we might be different but

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