Let's return to Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679). He believed that the freedom of our ancestors led to a war of all against all
and that only a social contract, that is forming a hierarchical state with a ruler at the top, had brought us peace and prosperity.
Nothing is less true, we now know....
"Against The Grain: A Deep History of the Earliest States" is a 2017 book by James C. Scott that sets out to undermine what he calls the "standard civilizational narrative",
that suggests humans chose to live settled lives based on intensive agriculture because this made people safer and more prosperous.
Instead, he argues, people had to be forced to live in the early states, which were hierarchical, beset by malnutrition and disease, and often based on slavery.
Numerous hunters / gatherers were on the run from the state. The first states, such as Uruk in Mesopotamia (2900 BC) or the Egypt of the pharaohs (2400 BC), were all slave states
A review in "Science" magazine concludes that the book's thesis "is fascinating and represents an alternative, nuanced, if somewhat speculative, scenario on how civilized society came into being."
It is ironic to discover, that what we use to call milestones of civilization, the invention of money, writing and administration of justice, were in the beginning in fact milestones of repression.
Take the first coins. Money was not invented because it seemed so convenient, but forced upon the people to make collecting taxes easier.
Or the script: do not think that the first written texts were love poems. The earliest texts were long lists of debts to be paid off.
And the administration of Justice? The oldest law text, the Code of Hammurabi contains a lot of punishments for people who help slaves escape.
How much fun is living in a state? Founding Father Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790) knew it. He wrote "No European who has tasted the wild life can tolerate living in our society afterwards."
If a "civilized" white was kidnapped by the original population and then freed again, he "attempted to escape to the forests again at the earliest opportunity," said Franklin.
Hundreds of settlers fled into the wilderness, while the reverse hardly occurred. Life in the woods simply offered more freedom than life as a farmer and taxpayer.
We are educated with the idea that you had in history two groups. On the one hand, you have the civilized people.
About them we have to think positively and on the other hand you have the barbarians and savages. Those we have to pity or fear.
It seems that the opposite is true. Those so called barbarians and savages lived in general a relaxed life, free from epidemics, taxes or suppressing rulers.
In fact we have to pity the civilized people, who have lost their freedom, live in stinking cities, are victims of taxes, pandemics and famines.
Our idea of history is in fact upside down. Civilization has become synonymous with peace and progress,
while the wilderness has become synonymous with war and destruction. In reality, for most of our history, it was rather the other way around.
But does this apply to our ancestors only or also to our present civilization? Let's discuss that in the next lecture.
Thank you for your attention again.....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019
The Discussion
[13:18] By the way...here you find some examples of legislation anno 1754 BC https://www.sjsu.edu/people/james.lindahl/courses/Hum1A/s3/The-Code-of-Hammurabi.pdf
[13:18]
[13:18] herman Bergson: if fun to read...
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:19] herman Bergson: Even women have rights in that legislation
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): love the first one
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the accuser goes
[13:19] herman Bergson: yes....in a lot of rules one is put to death
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): everything was much more brutal before I guess
[13:20] herman Bergson: I love 142 :-)
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): poor dad
[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita for centuries life was very brutal
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like in the middle ages (shudders)
[13:21] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:22] herman Bergson: it even lasted till 1800 or so
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): she shall be thrown in the water......I hope she can swim:)
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some are very good actually
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa the classic witch hunts
[13:22] herman Bergson: The text IS amazing...
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): how did these judges know if a man was speaking the truth?
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ill save this one, it MIGHT come to use in some horror game
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wine shop and burning
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh dear
[13:23] herman Bergson: I have no idea Beertje :-)
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): many of thee laws are like what we say in Sweden (ge igen med samma mynt)
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but worse then that
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even
[13:24] herman Bergson: What is interesting to note is that Rousseau seems to have been right so far...
[13:25] herman Bergson: It is what Benjamin Franklin observed
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what do you mean by...ge igen med samma mynt..give again with the same coin??? Bejiita?
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): do the same thing back
[13:27] herman Bergson: met gelijke munt terug betalen, misschien? :-)
[13:27] herman Bergson: an eye for an eye
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like you push my eye out I push your eye out4
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes that was what I was looking for
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very old too
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok, I understand, :))
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that term
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but then violence never stops
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but most do not practice it
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes indeed that very true
[13:29] herman Bergson: So far we have seen that Rousseau's idea that civilization is a curse, makes sense from his perspective about 1670
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): an endless chain of hatred ad war, actually the Anime series Naruto explain this never ending chain quite well but with a VERY complex story
[13:30] herman Bergson: Next lecture I'll give you some hope for the future though :-)
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope so
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ok ㋡
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i hope so Herman
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): actually this virus is almost like alien invasion
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sort of
[13:31] herman Bergson: yes there is hope....for most people are OK :-)
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): if it brings the world more together is the question
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:31] herman Bergson: THis virus shows also something else.....
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed it feels a bit like the nature is striking back trying to get rid of us for polluting it
[13:32] herman Bergson: if it were the Middle Ages maybe 40% of our population would have died because of it....
[13:32] herman Bergson: Today it is totally different....
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very true
[13:32] herman Bergson: Besides that...we are even able to create a vaccine against it....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): till seems very lethal in general, many bus drivers have for ex died from it 2 in my city
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): maybe
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still
[13:33] herman Bergson: Not Dettol or Lysol
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but we stil have the common cold~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so fingers crossed
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes but we don't die of it anymore Gemma :-)
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no but there was no vaccine~!!!!!!
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): after all this time
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): because the virus changes
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that's why it's zo difficult to make a vaccine
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so does covid19
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the cold is just a bit cumbersome but this seems like another beast, but well just hope for the best
[13:34] herman Bergson: I haven't had a cold for ages....can't remember when...
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all one can do
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shhhhh
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): might get one tomorrow
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) shouts: me either
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oops lol
[13:35] herman Bergson: you want to e-mail me one, Gemma? :-))
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nope
[13:35] herman Bergson: Then I'll gooogle it :-))
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (writes a cold virus in javascript/Node and mails to Hermans inbox)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): muhaha
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): naaa thats just mean doing
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): next level of mailing Bejiita?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:36] herman Bergson: Won't pass my anti-virus protection program., BEjiita ^_^
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): luckily computer viruses don't affect people,
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): not yet:))
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well they do after they loose all data and money
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): make one crazy tho
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and thats bad enough
[13:37] herman Bergson: Seems there are pacemakers that can be hacked
[13:37] CB Axel: I've heard that Covid19 isn't mutating like some other corona viruses like the common cold, so a vaccine might be practical.
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh hope so
[13:37] CB Axel: Oh, you can mess up a pacemaker with a very strong magnet.
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): htey can tell the difference where it came from already tho
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): problem with IOT devices is no one seem to care that they even can be hacked = no security
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there are diffenten Covid 19 viruses in the world
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some mutation to Europe from china
[13:37] CB Axel: I've seen doctors check on people's pacemakers in the ER using a magnet.
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ad to usa they can tell
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they just want everything so easy to use as possible so people will buy them and not complain
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with my asus router WLAN will not work unless I set a safe password and ncryption
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there are different corona virus
[13:38] CB Axel: The common cold is a corona virus.
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:39] herman Bergson: Corona virus is the name of a group of viruses....the 19 refers to the discovery year of this one...2019
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks corvid is singular tho
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ye the name is wrongly used cause it a group and not a single virus
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and also put the corona beer in bad light, that I like drinking in summer
[13:39] CB Axel: Covid. Corvids are very clever birds. :)
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I feel sad for them
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the brewery
[13:40] herman Bergson: Yes that is a serious problem, Bejiita....a beer with a virus in it :-)
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im not sure all the corona beer jokes are a good commercial, rather bad asocciation
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): poor corona beer
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): drinking Leffe now....
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nice beer
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I mean I like it and I WILL continue drinking in.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Not bad Beertje :-)
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): triple:)
[13:41] CB Axel: People in the US were avoiding Chinese restaurants, too.
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Leffe = slang for Swedish name Leif
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some people bej
[13:41] CB Axel: I picked up some Chinese take away just to show my support. :)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but don't remember if it s a Swedish beer,
[13:41] CB Axel: And because I love Chinese food. :)
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good for you
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): me too CB:)
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): althoug I get a big butt from Chinese food:)))))
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes I had asian food this Saturday at a nearby place
[13:42] herman Bergson: In China they now are discriminating workers from Nigeria......for they allegedly re-import the virs...
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh brother
[13:42] CB Axel: It's crazy. viruses don't care who you are or where you came from. :(
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true :(
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hurray for civiliisation:)
[13:43] CB Axel: People are so stupid.
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some people
[13:43] herman Bergson: The Chinese try to talk down their responsibility for the situation
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): viruses are just bad code(rna) its not even alive
[13:43] CB Axel: Not like corvids who are very clever. lol
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well one thing they did right was send out the dna right away
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm as usual indeed Herman
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): at least
[13:43] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is offline.
[13:44] CB Axel: The Chinese government did try to cover up the number of deaths in the very beginning, but I think they've acted responsibly since then.
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): me too
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the Chinese started it by their unsanitary habit of eating bats and also in unsanitary conditions
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the bat eating is an issue
[13:45] CB Axel nods
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its like with the pest, that was spread by rats
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bats, cats, and dogs
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and civet cats
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the black plague
[13:45] herman Bergson: That is the result of the domestication of animals in the Neolithic....
[13:46] herman Bergson: we introduced it ourselves by leaving our hunter/gatherer lifestyle
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): here in the Netherlands the mink farms are infected
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we expect a lot of nature don't we
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): do what we want or get out of our way
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so animals can have Covid19 too
[13:47] herman Bergson: Yes...here in the Netherlands we recently have seen a transfer of the virus from man on animal
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i thought so far only large cats... lions
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well the bat obviously had it
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): where it all started
[13:47] CB Axel: A couple of house cats got it recently.
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ouch
[13:47] herman Bergson: Ahh...
[13:47] herman Bergson: serious matter
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): horses can also get it I read
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but does it make the cat sick???
[13:47] CB Axel: From what I've heard they can get it from us, but we don't think we can get it from them.
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:48] CB Axel: Yes. I believe so.
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why not CB, we got it from bats too
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we really know so little so far
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no the bat bites a civet cat
[13:48] CB Axel: Viruses don't generally move from one species to another easily.
[13:48] herman Bergson: I feel safe only when there is a vaccine...
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): tehn the person gets it
[13:48] CB Axel: The bats don't seem to get sick.
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:49] CB Axel: the cats get mild respiratory symptoms
[13:49] CB Axel: I don't know what would happen if you ate the cats.
[13:49] herman Bergson: I already have killed my cat :-)
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but an animal can be a carrier of a virus and give it to us people?
[13:50] CB Axel: Yes.
[13:50] CB Axel: MERS came from camels.
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you killed a cat Herman?
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well that seems fully logical, just as with black plague in the middle ages
[13:50] herman Bergson: Ugly habit of dogs licking your face.....bbrrr
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thta is a kiss
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the rats I don't think got sick from it but almost entire Europe died
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yak
[13:51] herman Bergson: Well...I think we have saved the world again today enough.....:-)
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we are approaching 58000 deaths
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and of topic:))
[13:51] herman Bergson: Thank you for your participation again :-)
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok back for me to my javascript viruses and bugs
[13:51] herman Bergson: YEs GEmma....more than in 12 years of Vietnam war
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope to make it Thursday
[13:51] herman Bergson: horrible...
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again
[[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Bejiita
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): unless boss calls a conference on internet
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): beware of the virus
[13:52] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class:-) .,... a vaccine will come! but please don't drink disinfectant!
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:52] CB Axel: I'll see you all Thursday. Bye.
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
[13:52] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye:-)s
[13:52] herman Bergson: I just emptied a glass of disinfectant Bergie.....
[13:53] herman Bergson: They say that alcohol is a disinfectant!
