Those who consider earthly immortality unattainable and underestimate figurative immortality can always strive for immortality in the hereafter.
Some religions promise eternal life in paradise if one adheres to the rules given by God.
Immortality thus becomes an attainable, albeit very long-term goal, and the pursuit of the heavenly paradise is for many people a profound, perhaps even the deepest form of meaning.
Often the goal is not immortality, but eternal life that one only achieves after one has died and after the resurrection, as in Christianity.
The reward of eternal life is one of the reasons for the success of religion. If you adhere to the rules and subscribe to the norms and values, then success is assured.
Another advantage is that you are not alone. Religious communities often function as places where people come together, experience solidarity, and find support.
Religion is thus part of the pursuit of 'belonging somewhere', which we will also encounter in other forms of meaning such as participating in an activist movement and doing meaningful work.
If we are part of a group with shared values and goals, then our activities become more meaningful, not only for ourselves but also for the other members of the group.
According to some religions, such as Judaism, Christianity and Islam, we could have had eternal life here on earth, but people like Adam and Eve messed that up.
But ultimately, according to these religions, we get eternal life, although it can be either heaven or hell.
In several other religions, the pursuit of eternal life is also a meaningful goal. In the major Indian religions, such as Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Sikhism, the nature of the rest of life is determined
by the good and bad deeds of the individual in the ended life, after which reincarnation takes place via a series of human or animal forms.
Someone who lives well can return after death in a higher form and ultimately be freed from earthly life. Liberation from this cycle of rebirths is referred to as nirvana.
A remarkable similarity with the previously mentioned religions is that in both cases someone's status in life after death is a consequence of someone's behavior before death: and a good or pious life on earth makes the goal of liberation and redemption attainable.
But religion and eternal life do not always go hand in hand. In most traditional African and South/Central American religions there is no mention of a deity or eternal life.
There, ancestor worship is much more central. In ancestor worship, people believe that the spirits of the ancestors remain present on earth and that they can give strength to new generations, which is also a form of eternity.
Adhering to a religion does not automatically mean striving for eternal life. In addition, since secularization, belief in life after death has steadily declined in many countries.
The reward that a traditional religion offered its believers isn't that interesting anymore in our time as a source of meaning of life.
So...on to the next lecture...thank you for your attention.....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
[13:18] herman Bergson: I wonder how many Christians still believe in a life after death.
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a lot I think
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: Interesting that living forever on earth, and NOT living forever on earth have both been considered rewards.
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): special in South America
[13:19] herman Bergson: Ah yes Beertje
[13:19] herman Bergson: I still don't get it really.....
[13:20] herman Bergson: our life lasts not even 100 years, except for Jimmy Carter :-)
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol and my mother in law..she went almost 103
[13:20] Max Chatnoir: Wow!
[13:21] herman Bergson: and then you have to live on forever after your life on earth.....in what way makes it sense?
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): forever is a very long time....
[13:21] herman Bergson: yes, but whatfor?
[13:22] herman Bergson: Why does homo sapiens want to live forever?
[13:22] herman Bergson: Or is it , what we mentioned in another lecture, the expression of our fear of death?
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes i think so
[13:23] bergfrau Apfelbaum: maybe, because it's so sad when someone leaves
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Or maybe of the unpleasantness of life.
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: Not a personal reference, by the way.
[13:24] herman Bergson: It is not sad for the one who dies....only for those who are left behind
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[13:24] herman Bergson: Ah...I get it Max.....
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): nobody has ever returned from death, we can't know what happens after that
[13:24] herman Bergson: the Calvinist approach....
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: I don't understand the utility of the Calvinist approach.
[13:26] herman Bergson: Calvinism is known for its pessimistic view on life...it is suffering and strugling...but the reward comes in the afterlife
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: If your fate is unchangeable, then what you do doesn't matter.
[13:26] herman Bergson: Well Max...that is a problem indeed....
[13:27] herman Bergson: If the christian god is ALL-knowing, he knows our whole history of life already....
[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and our future
[13:28] herman Bergson: from birth till death, yes
[13:28] herman Bergson: a weird idea
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's like Big Brother is watching us
[13:29] herman Bergson: He is already done watching for he has seen it all already :-)
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: It would be interesting if consciousness somehow continued. But once it leaves a body, could it retain a separate identity?
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hmm
[13:30] herman Bergson: consciousness as we know it is the result of brain activity
[13:30] herman Bergson: When the brain activity stops, consciousness is gone forever
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: It's like consciousness can connect with other consciousnesses, but only while you have a physical anchor.
[13:32] herman Bergson: consciousness doesn't leave the body...it just disappears like the light disappeared when you switch off the light
[13:33] herman Bergson: At least that indeed Max
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: Oh, I absolutely believe that. I'm just speculating.
[13:33] herman Bergson: I am thinking of another issue here....
[13:34] herman Bergson: consciousness isn't a something...in the body
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: I would like to believe that I could meet my husband again and ask him if he watched the VP debate. :-)
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: I miss that stuff!
[13:34] herman Bergson: Can't I say that my body is part of my consciousness?
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: I think it's the anchor, but as you interact with other people, you get this web....
[13:35] herman Bergson: Yes. also in esoteric thinking, there is room for a kind of eternity, a world where the departed live as ghosts
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: Especially here, where we can get brain-to-brain with people thousands of miles away.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Spock used his hands to establish a mind melt :-)
[13:37] Max Chatnoir: Yes. :-)
[13:38] herman Bergson: Consciousness is still a big mystery
[13:38] herman Bergson: But it produced ideas about immortality, and the afterlife
[13:39] herman Bergson: The more I think about it the more I don't understand...
[13:40] herman Bergson: What on earth do we need immortality for...or an afterlife...and where do the afterlivers live?
[13:40] herman Bergson: And when we become immortal this planet will get overloaded
[13:41] bergfrau Apfelbaum: if we lived forever, we would soon be too heavy for this planet
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: And we will stop evolving. That's not fun!
[13:41] herman Bergson: hmmyes...might even fall out of orbit...
[13:41] herman Bergson: ohh...by the way....
[13:42] herman Bergson: the sun does not have eternal life....
[13:42] herman Bergson: it will explode one day...they say in 5 billion years
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we use matter of this planet...we are a bit of this planet, so the planet will not be too heavy
[13:42] Max Chatnoir: There is a sobering thought!
[13:43] herman Bergson: partly saved by Beertje...
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay
[13:43] herman Bergson: but 5 billion years is just a flash of light in eternity
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: I heard about an interesting book this morning on the evolution of intelligence: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BCC76563/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_d_asin_title_129_o00aud_?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we need to move to another planet
[13:44] herman Bergson: In some places it is dearly needed indeed, Max :-)
[13:46] herman Bergson: I wonder if there was an evolution of the brain in the past 30.000 years
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe yes
[13:46] herman Bergson: Homo sapiens has kept the same brain volume since then
[13:47] herman Bergson: Look at the apes...they have brains...maybe as long as we have.....and still they are apes
[13:47] herman Bergson: no evolution among chimpanzees
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's because we have imagination
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: But I still believe we can rise above our ancestry. because we write things down so everybody doesn't have to remember everything.
[13:48] herman Bergson: Don't confuse evolution with the changes caused to the brain through the growth of knowledge
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: We can say" OK, that didn't work so well. Let's not do THAT again!"
[13:48] herman Bergson: In a way we already did, Max
[13:49] herman Bergson: Just look at the history of science
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: Yes, the history of science is the history of changing our minds.
[13:49] herman Bergson: As I said last Tuesday....
[13:49] herman Bergson: We are standing on the shoulders of many generations
[13:50] herman Bergson: did our MIND change, Max....I wonder
[13:51] herman Bergson: Emotionally we haven't changed a bit in millennia...
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: Maybe not the brains, but our opinions, beliefs, knowledge?
[13:51] herman Bergson: Just look at the literature of all ages...the songs and poems
[13:51] herman Bergson: Yes. they have changed...definitely
[13:52] herman Bergson: and these changes have made us more humane and civilized...more bonobo-like than chimp-like
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: Because we have access to those records. We can communicate with our ancestors.
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: We don't forget everything we have learned in a lifetime.
[13:53] herman Bergson: No...
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: We made pictures on cave walls, and invented the printing press and the internet and all that.
[13:55] herman Bergson: I only can say that it is a very complex picture
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: mhm thats a lot Max
[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why should we learn a lot if it's all gone when we die?
[13:56] Max Chatnoir: Because we want to tell our descendants don't do stupid stuff.
[13:56] herman Bergson: You can discuss these matters for hours.....
[13:57] herman Bergson: Do we really, Max
[13:57] herman Bergson: Why should they agree with us?
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: But it's not all gone. We tell our friends and put it on Facebook, and write books and songs, etc.
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): better sit in the sun with a cocktail and enjoy
[13:58] Max Chatnoir: They might well not, because they know what happened.
[13:58] herman Bergson: I think you are right Beertje....
[13:58] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes
[13:58] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ☆*¨¨**''* Cheers *''**¨¨*☆
[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): proost
[13:58] herman Bergson: We won't save the world today....maybe next time :-)
[13:59] Max Chatnoir: And set up a world where you can do that, Beertje.
[13:59] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you so much Herman and class!
[13:59] herman Bergson: So....thank you all again...
[13:59] herman Bergson: Class dismissed
[13:59] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ thank you Herman
[13:59] Max Chatnoir: Yes, you all make my brain go strange places!
[1[14:00] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[14:00] Max Chatnoir: and all the rest of you.
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