500: Philosophical method

After 499 lectures on all kinds of philosophical subject you might expect, that it is about time to come up with some real answers to all those complex questions, which we discussed here.

The primary task of a philosopher, however, is not to come up with the right answers, but with the right questions. He or she can clarify that, what looks simple, in fact is not that simple at all.

Take the question of my previous lecture: "Who am I and what am I?" In the discussion afterwards Laila Schumann thought that one important question was forgotten: "Why am I?"

Let's have a close look at the questions.

"Who am I" already implies the knowledge that I am someone. It means that I can ask "Who are you?" and I can conclude, that you are not me, in other words, this suggest that I may have a personal identity.

"What am I?" leads to quite different conclusions. I could ask "What are you?" and we could conclude that in some sense we even are identical. But what am I? Some object among other objects? Or, because I can ask these questions, am I more than just an object? Questions are no objects, like stones ore trees.

"Why am I?" is perhaps the biggest question of all, because it transcends me as a person or an object. In search of an answer it looks for something beyond be.

As you see, these three apparently simple questions aren't that simple at all.

For instance, who am I? Well, that is simple I am Herman, the person giving a lecture right now. Ok, but who is this little boy in this photograph? Well, isn't it clear? That is me when I was 10 years old!

Did you give lectures then too?

Of course not! 

Then you and that 10 year old boy are really different from each other?!

Well…..yes and no…

Ok, what then changed and what stayed the same that makes both Herman?

To cut it short, this is what philosophers call the problem of personal identity. For those who are interested, dig into it. It really is a serious and complex philosophical discussion. What is it to be a person from birth to old age?

Equally difficult is the question "What am I?" The answer "I am a human being" doesn't get us anywhere, for what is a "human being"? OK, one thing is clear. I am at least a body. No one else is my body. I am my body.

But that is not all. I KNOW that I am my body. And here we can think of Descartes (1596 - 1650). He said, that this KNOWING is something completely different. I mean, I also could KNOW that I am not a body, but something else….stardust or thin air…and yet KNOW, that I am.

Good. Then I am not just a body but also this KNOWING ability. We have a word for that 'knowing'. We call it Mind. Thence what am I? I am a body and a mind or consciousness.

I spent 115 lectures on this subject and finally concluded: Everything we know about the brain is, that consciousness is causally reducible to brain processes;

and for that reason I deny that the ontological irreducibility of consciousness implies that consciousness is something ‘over and above’, something distinct from, its neurobiological base.

This, of course has serious philosophical consequences for the answer to the question "WHY am I?" Especially because a lot of people assume that we not only have a body and a mind, but also a soul.

Let's first have a close look at the WHY  itself in this question. It is fundamentally different from the 'why' in the first two, because this one asks for a reason, which transcends our material being. The reason is supposed to come from somewhere else.

Why we think this way is, because the homo sapiens had discovered causality. Event B happens after every event A. Not as a coincidence but all the time. Thence we say A causes B. Like "brain" —+ "consciousness", "no brain" —+ "no consciousness",

So the "why" implies that there is something outside me that causes my existence. Isn't the answer quite simple? A male and a female had a pleasant night together et voilá, there I was after nine months.

No,that is too easy, for there is more in that question. We ask for more than just a simple material cause. We ask for a reason and when we know the reason we also know the meaning of something.

But we have a problem here. Every question already assumes an answer. That is, every question already implies specifics about the answer. Just take the questions "Who is a vulture? and "What is a vulture?"

And what I forgot to mention is, that when I ask "why am I ?", I do not mean specifically my personal material being. I mean it more in a general sense. You know, meaning not only whether there is a cause of my existence, but more in the sense of "is there a REASON" for my existence.

But then the question "Why is a rock?" and "Why am I?" are two completely different questions! Using "why" in this general sense makes the question about the rock a bit silly.

But isn't the question "Why am I?" in that sense also a silly question, a meaningless question. Grammatically correct, but semantically a problem?

As Gemma Cleanslate - Allen often remarked, also in the discussion after lecture 499, "there have always been more questions than answers here", I'll not elaborate on all possible  answers here.

If you have attended my lectures and paid some attention, you'll know my answer after this 500th lecture. For the rest, I leave it up to you to give the answers.

Thank you… ^_^

The Discussion

[13:24] Gemma Allen: It is still true

[13:25] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:25] Lizzy Pleides: Thank you professor

[13:25] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)

[13:25] herman Bergson: It is Gemma :-)

[13:25] ἀρετή: Why is the question not why are we?

[13:25] herman Bergson: Otherwise it would be the end pf philosophy :-))

[13:25] Gemma Allen: wonders what the next 500 will be about

[13:25] Laila Schuman: purpose can also be ...that which one chooses...from inside...to devote their time/life to... a child, art, helping someone, robbing banks... working on a farm...

[13:25] CONNIE Eichel: :)

[13:25] herman Bergson: Good question ^_^

[13:25] Bejiita Imako: indeed:) will be exciting for sure

[13:26] Laila Schuman: why/purpose

[13:26] herman Bergson: Sure Laila....one of our abilities is to give meaning to our existence

[13:26] Laila Schuman: existential

[13:26] herman Bergson: very true

[13:26] Bejiita Imako: ah

[13:27] Merlin: Have we left Eastern Philosophy now Herman?

[13:27] Faithfull: would you it never leaves

[13:27] herman Bergson: But as you may know there are all kinds of belief systems that like to tell what the meaning of life is

[13:28] herman Bergson: No Merlin...will be continued

[13:28] Merlin: ok ty

[13:28] Gemma Allen: ah good i thought there were holes

[13:28] Faithfull: the great continuum

[13:28] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes, we just got started on it so hope there will be lot more in that subject for sure ㋡

[13:28] ἀρετή: are we not the sum of our genes + time + culture + time + experience?

[13:29] ἀρετή: -time

[13:29] herman Bergson: I just used the questions of last lecture for this one....

[13:29] herman Bergson: more general than to continue on Buddhism

[13:29] Merlin: Well one thing I like to hear, your opinion of Consciousness agrees with Dawkins

[13:30] herman Bergson: I don’t know exactly what Dawkins tells about consciousness Merlin

[13:30] Merlin: I find it a bit uncomfortable but you cannot deny the truth

[13:30] herman Bergson: But is he says that the brain causes consciousness..then I agree with him

[13:31] Zanicia: yes

[13:31] Merlin: Dawkins says we evolved it as a mechanism

[13:31] Merlin: All part of our survival strategy

[13:31] herman Bergson: that might be quite true....we are just a moment in evolution

[13:31] MerlinMerlin nods

[13:32] ἀρετή: what about machine intelligence?

[13:32] CONNIE Eichel shouts: hi dings, welcome there, come :)

[13:32] Merlin: Yes ] ἀρετή:

[13:32] Bejiita Imako: but can u make a machine aware if what it is doing really?

[13:32] Dings Digital: Hello :) still rezzing

[13:32] Merlin: that stuff about machine consciousness is all nonsense to me

[13:33] herman Bergson: that is what it is Areyn...machine intelligence....machines

[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes Merlin

[13:33] herman Bergson: I agree

[13:33] Merlin: ㋡

[13:33] Bejiita Imako: computers are digital and work with lot of simple switches, can you ever make something like that feel?

[13:33] Bejiita Imako: thats interesting

[13:33] ἀρετή: not really but a lot of the applications, search and all that we are using are evolving towards our reliance on the "smart" technology... and machine intelligence is just another term for what they referred to as A.I.

[13:34] Lizzy Pleides: intelligence is a complex thing with many aspects

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: thats true, you can make machines that program and "learn"

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: themselves

[13:34] Merlin: I know you said Intelligence, but I said consciousness

[13:34] herman Bergson: intelligence isn’t the same as consciousness

[13:34] ἀρετή: it's not going to be in the form of robots.. it's already in use.. that control the temperature in your home, your smart phone, your google search.. ads.. all that

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: nope

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: a machine can never be conscious i think

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: works in a complete other way then a living organism do

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: but intelligent maybe

[13:35] herman Bergson: That is all pretty mechanistic Aryen

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: in a way

[13:35] ἀρετή: I'm just asking because I like to to read about future technology based on current science

[13:35] herman Bergson: not intelligent at all in the sense that it has the capability to come up with solutions for new problems

[13:36] Qwark Allen: this will be a interesting discussion to have in 30 years, when some AI will be around trying to find out, if they have a mind or not

[13:36] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:36] Qwark Allen: i mean, to discuss this with themselfves

[13:36] Zanicia: I'm Alive...Johnny Five!

[13:36] herman Bergson: I dont think so, Qwark...that still is science fiction to me

[13:37] Gemma Allen: a lot of past science fiction has come true however

[13:37] Gemma Allen: and is now fact

[13:37] herman Bergson: We not even understand the phenomenon of consciousness in relation to the material brain

[13:37] Bejiita Imako: yes

[13:37] Qwark Allen: just look at the rate cpus double the speed, and hard drives to save data grow

[13:37] Bejiita Imako: they are researching the possibility to make a real warp drive at NASA

[13:37] Bejiita Imako: like in start trek

[13:38] Qwark Allen: the future is arriving fast

[13:38] CONNIE Eichel: ^^

[13:38] Bejiita Imako: indeed

[13:38] Zanicia: trillions spent while humans starve to death

[13:38] Merlin: Its a global world too :P

[13:38] Dings Digital: how is this future different from the 18th century?

[13:38] herman Bergson: Then I suggest we focus on my future of the next 500 lectures first :-)

[13:38] Lizzy Pleides: but our brain and instincts are still in stone age

[13:38] Gemma Allen: ♥ LOL ♥

[13:38] .: Beertje :.: the future is only tomorrow...or in 5 minutes...not faster than is was in the old days

[13:38] Bejiita Imako: hehe

[13:39] Gemma Allen: how long will christmas break be??

[13:39] Bejiita Imako: the future is the next seconds

[13:39] Laila Schuman: is there going to be a celebration of the five hundredth lecture?

[13:39] herman Bergson: Ahh Gemma ..THAT is our future...indeed

[13:39] Gemma Allen: yep

[13:39] herman Bergson: Xmas holiday...

[13:39] herman Bergson: I suggest that I resume lecturing in the third week of January :-)

[13:40] Gemma Allen: Aristotle and Alarice both sent congratulations

[13:40] herman Bergson: Gives you all lots of time to go skying and being back in time here

[13:40] Gemma Allen: as did Ze

[13:40] herman Bergson: Nice

[13:40] Anske Beattie: where is snow right now Herman? lol

[13:40] CONNIE Eichel: hehe, i will go to the beach here, if possible :)

[13:41] .: Beertje :.: we'll have a green christmas

[13:41] Bejiita Imako: no snow here yet also

[13:41] Bejiita Imako: only rain rain and rain

[13:41] Gemma Allen: snow here

[13:41] Gemma Allen: but melting

[13:41] Anske Beattie: will be a warm Christmas

[13:41] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!

[13:41] Lizzy Pleides: if my bones are still ok i'll be here then

[13:41] Gemma Allen: here too

[13:41] herman Bergson: yes indeed..here too Anske ^_*

[13:41] Anske Beattie: ohh realy Herman??

[13:41] Laila Schuman: i am rather ill rl.. if there is no celebration, i need to return to bed

[13:41] herman Bergson: Well you are dressed for a warm winter :-)

[13:41] Gemma Allen: i have already been eating too much!!!

[13:41] ἀρετή: get well soon

[13:41] Anske Beattie: get well soon Laila!!

[13:42] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes hope u get better soon

[13:42] Gemma Allen: ah laila

[13:42] herman Bergson: You better hit your bed Laila!!!!

[13:42] Zanicia: yes get well soon

[13:42] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!

[13:42] Gemma Allen: take care

[13:42] Lizzy Pleides: yes get well Layla

[13:42] Gemma Allen: please

[13:42] herman Bergson: Get better again soon plz...

[13:42] Laila Schuman: thank you.... congratulations on your 500th herman

[13:42] CONNIE Eichel: get better :)

[13:42] Anske Beattie: happy hollidays!

[13:42] Laila Schuman: baiee... and best wishes to all

[13:42] Dings Digital: bye Laila, take care

[13:42] Bejiita Imako: bye Laila

[13:42] Zanicia: Bye bye tc

[13:42] herman Bergson: I wish you all Happy Holidays and we'll be back in 2014 :-)

[13:43] Zanicia: Good

[13:43] Gemma Allen: you tooo !!!!

[13:43] ἀρετή: Happy Holidays

[13:43] Gemma Allen: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:43] Bejiita Imako: nice

[13:43] Anske Beattie:                 *•.¸('*•.¸ ❤ ¸.•*´)¸.•*

[13:43] Anske Beattie:             .•*❤¨`•APPLAUSE•´¨`❤*•.

[13:43] Anske Beattie:                 ¸.•*(¸.•*´ ❤ `*•.¸)`*•.¸ 

[13:43] Qwark Allen: thank you

[13:43] Zanicia: Thank you Professor

[13:43] Bejiita Imako: yes happy holidays all!

[13:43] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:43] Qwark Allen: glad i could come today

[13:43] Lizzy Pleides: thank you herman , the same to you!

[13:43] .: Beertje :.: Fijne feestdagen herman

[13:43] Anske Beattie: well doen professor!!!

[13:43] Gemma Allen: i hve that tree infront of our house

[13:43] CONNIE Eichel: congrats professor :)

[13:43] Qwark Allen: .........................✴♬✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: .......................✴*♥*✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ......................✴⊱〠⊰✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ........….……..✴.*⊱♫⊰*.✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ......……….. ✴• '*♥* ' • ✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ........……. ✴'*•♫♫ ♫•*'✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ........….. ✴' *, • '♫ ' • ,* '✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ........….✴' * • ♫*♥* ♫• * '✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: .......… ✴* , • ღ☆☾☯ • , *  '✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: ......…✴* ' •♫♫*♥*♫♫ • ' * '✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: .......✴' * ' • .ღ☆☾☯☯* • ' * ' '✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen: .....✴' ' * • ♫♫♫*♥*♫♫♫• * ' '✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen:          ✴ MERRY CHRISTMAS  ✴

[13:43] Qwark Allen:             ✴    FELIZ  NATAL    ✴

[13:43] Dings Digital: Congratulation to the 500th session. it is the first i finally managed to attend :)

[13:43] Bejiita ImakoBejiita Imako ♪♥♪APPLAUDS!!!♪♥♪

[13:43] ἀρετή: Well done on the 500th :)

[13:43] Bejiita Imako: yes

[13:43] Gemma Allen: omg really dings?

[13:43] Gemma Allen: OMG!!!

[13:43] CONNIE Eichel: yes, wishing more and more classes :)

[13:43] herman Bergson: Congrats Dings :-)

[13:43] Gemma Allen: join the group so you will get notices

[13:44] Dings Digital: hehe, thank you. happy to be here

[13:44] Anske Beattie: happy hollidays to you all!!

[13:44] herman Bergson: Needed 499 lectures to get Dings here!

[13:44] Dings Digital: oh dear, I am so sorry

[13:44] Bejiita Imako: ook forward to even more nice interesting lectures here

[13:44] Anske Beattie: and me Herman ;-)

[13:44] CONNIE Eichel: hehe

[13:44] Dings Digital: I am slow

[13:44] ἀρετή: :)

[13:44] herman Bergson: True Anske ^_^

[13:45] Qwark Allen: nice new av btw bej

[13:45] Qwark Allen: love it

[13:45] Qwark Allen: ^^

[13:45] Gemma Allen: i dont like it

[13:45] Gemma Allen: ♥ LOL ♥

[13:45] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°

[13:45] Qwark Allen: lol

499: Philosophy and religion

First of all I want to thank everybody for the warm support and good wishes I have received because of what has happened to me. It really helped me to feel better. Thank you all, who showed such kind compassion.

[13:08] herman Bergson: I guess I'd better begin

[13:09] herman Bergson: This is actually the lecture of October 24 :-))

[ hB suffered a heart attack in RL on that day, but after six weeks is fully recovered now]

[13:09] Gemma Allen: :-)

[13:09] .: Beertje :.: smiles

[13:09] herman Bergson: First of all I want to thank everybody for the warm support and good wishes I have received because of what has happened to me. It really helped me to feel better. Thank you all, who showed such kind compassion.

[13:09] Nectanebus: :)

[13:09] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:09] Bejiita Imako: your welcome

In my quest to understand what the relation is between philosophical thinking and religion, especially while this plays such an important role in Eastern thinking,

I want to elaborate some more on the ideas I developed in my previous lecture. What fascinated me in the previous lecture was and still is, that in the development of the human mind we time and again see the same pattern. 

A wise man (not a woman) appears on stage. He appears to be rather influential with his teachings in his time. Then after his death a lot  of his teaching including all kinds of ideas added by others are committed to "paper":  

this happened to Confucius, Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Mohammed. And only a 350 years ago scientific thinking was added to our repertoire to understand life.

Now my primary assumption is, that the homo sapiens is a result of evolution.

My second assumption is that in general all humans biologically have the same brain. That is, a limbic system and a prefrontal cortex and some other parts. Thence , theoretically, we all are mentally wired in the same way.

My third assumption is, that survival, survival of the individual and then survival of the group, is the primary drive in nature. In this process, the organisms best adapted to their environment, survive.

If you assume that philosophy begins with wonder, then somewhere in the history of mankind the homo sapiens formulated the wondering question: "Who am I and what am I?"

Let me return to "The Problems of Philosophy", by Bertrand Russell (1912): 

-quote-

If you ask a mathematician, a mineralogist, a historian, or any other man of learning, what definite body of truths has been ascertained by his science, his answer will last as long as you are willing to listen. 

But if you put the same question to a philosopher, he will, if he is candid, have to confess that his study has not achieved positive results such as have been achieved by other sciences. 

It is true that this is partly accounted for by the fact that, as soon as definite knowledge concerning any subject becomes possible, this subject ceases to be called philosophy, and becomes a separate science. 

The whole study of the heavens, which now belongs to astronomy, was once included in philosophy; Newton's great work was called 'the mathematical principles of natural philosophy'. 

Similarly, the study of the human mind, which was a part of philosophy, has now been separated from philosophy and has become the science of psychology. 

Thus, to a great extent, the uncertainty of philosophy is more apparent than real: those questions which are already capable of definite answers are placed in the sciences, 

while those only to which, at present, no definite answer can be given, remain to form the residue which is called philosophy.

-end quote-

Now look at the passage "…as soon as definite knowledge concerning any subject becomes possible…"

It means, that our primary question in life :"Who am I and what am I?" is gradually answered by science.

And here, from an evolutionary point of view, I disagree with Russell. For thousands of years our mind generated "definite" knowledge and yes the subject ceased to be philosophy and became RELIGION and only a 350 years ago the subject became science,

The evolutionary meaning of religion has been crucial for survival of the group. It answered all uncertainties. It offered a perspective and a destiny of existence.

It strengthened the cohesion of the group. Created the binding feeling of a "WE" against the "OTHERS". It answered the questions about good and evil. It answered our primary question: "Who am I and what am I?" This is especially evident in, for instance, Confucianism.

This doesn't mean that the basic assumptions of all those religions were definite knowledge. They were just treated as if it was definite knowledge and it fulfilled its purpose in the evolving society.

Many religious answers now go the way philosophical answers did. As soon as it became clear that it was a virus that caused the disease, it no longer was the will of gods or evil spirits, but a medical issue that could be treated.

In Russell's days science was the future, the true knowledge. Today, science is an effective way of interpreting reality, but not the complete answer to our primary question: "Who am I and what am I?"

So, there is still plenty of time for another 500 lectures on philosophy after next Thursday.

The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you :-)

[13:21] Nectanebus: heh

[13:21] Chantal: ㋡

[13:21] Nectanebus: Nice, that was certainly worth the wait

[13:21] Daruma Boa: thank u herman

[13:21] Daruma Boa: so no class after thursday?^^

[13:22] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:22] Gemma Allen: on i doubt that

[13:22] herman Bergson: How do you mean Daruma?

[13:22] Gemma Allen: forget that idea

[13:22] Daruma Boa: u wrote another 500 lectures on philosophy after next Thursday.

[13:22] herman Bergson: I was planning another 500 ;-)

[13:22] Gemma Allen: probably

[13:22] Gemma AllenGemma Allen GIGGLES!!

[13:22] Gemma Allen: ...LOL...

[13:22] Gemma Allen: see

[13:22] Daruma Boa: ahh okeee

[13:22] Bejiita Imako: hehe

[13:22] Gemma Allen: but it is a milestone

[13:22] Gemma Allen: i was at the first class

[13:23] Chantal: Herman 2.0 has enough to share ㋡

[13:23] Gemma Allen: imagine

[13:23] .: Beertje :.: do you think those next 500 are enough Herman?

[13:23] herman Bergson: Next Thursday is Lecture 500 :-))

[13:23] Nectanebus: I found it interesting you mentioned the "trial and error" methods employed as social programming, and its parallel with scientific method. I always thought Russell overlooked things like alchemy and theology in his statement.

[13:23] herman Bergson: Dont think so Beertje....we always have to keep on thinking critically

[13:23] Nectanebus: Wow, seems I missed a few haha

[13:23] Laila Schuman: one important question is WHY am I... i think a lot of people really need a PURPOSE in life... they long for purpose... not just who and what

[13:23] Bejiita Imako: yes

[13:24] Daruma Boa: right nectan

[13:24] Bejiita Imako: i guess so

[13:24] .: Beertje :.: i think ..just TO BE..is enough

[13:24] herman Bergson: Ahh yes ..the WHY question.....

[13:24] Bejiita Imako: same here

[13:24] Nectanebus: That's a very Chan viewpoint, Bejita ;)

[13:24] herman Bergson: There is a problem with that question....

[13:24] Velvet: I think we decide the WHY, individually

[13:24] Bejiita Imako: I am just me

[13:24] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:25] Daruma Boa: well just to be i guess is not enough

[13:25] herman Bergson: The thing is....we have the word WHY.....

[13:25] Daruma Boa: it sounds like u have no will^^

[13:25] herman Bergson: but the question is....is every sentence which begins with WHY meaningful?

[13:25] Daruma Boa: to think about being here is an important question

[13:25] Laila Schuman: or the reverse is that one has no passion

[13:25] Daruma Boa: and only humas are able to

[13:25] Daruma Boa: humans

[13:25] Bejiita Imako: Im a nice guy who do many good things and like to hage fun and be with friends

[13:25] Bejiita Imako: thats good enough for me

[13:26] Daruma Boa: ok^^

[13:26] Laila Schuman: ants and trees are here...

[13:26] Daruma Boa: 4 me often not^^

[13:26] Laila Schuman: we have minds

[13:26] Gemma Allen: fortunately

[13:26] Nectanebus: I think post-(post-post-post-)modernism proved that if life has no meaning, we shall ascribe it one that suits us.

[13:26] herman Bergson: yes...and that mind makes us believe a lot of things

[13:26] Gemma Allen: ah

[13:27] Laila Schuman: like communism ascribes meanings... or church?

[13:27] Merlin: Well before we digress too much I had a comment early on but did not want to interrupt.....

[13:27] herman Bergson: Different from other organisms we are indeed capable of giving meaning to things

[13:27] Chantal: Thinks the pursuit of being the best YOU possible could be a real could why

[13:27] Merlin: Another example of people who did not themselves write but was written later.....

[13:27] herman Bergson: No no...Merlin.....

[13:27] Nectanebus: more like hedonism and monasticism being sufficient reasons for life to their adherents, to use a more base example

[13:27] Merlin: Socrates

[13:27] Chantal: could=good

[13:28] herman Bergson: let's return on our steps and Merlin, plz repeat your comment

[13:28] Merlin: Ok

[13:28] Merlin: Socrates is another example to add

[13:28] Merlin: people who did not write themselves

[13:29] herman Bergson: Ahhh indeed...Plato did all the work :-)

[13:29] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:29] herman Bergson: A good example, which makes the list less religious :-))

[13:29] Merlin: Oh good I am glad I got them round the right way. I sometimes get it wrong

[13:29] ἀρετή: hi quaezar

[13:29] ⓆⓊⒶⒺⓏⒶⓇ: A very good day everyone :)

[13:29] Velvet: And we can just hope that Plato got it right!

[13:30] Bejiita Imako: hi Quaezar

[13:30] Lizzy Pleides: hi quaezar

[13:30] herman Bergson: hello Quaezar :-)

[13:30] Daruma Boa: hi quaezar

[13:30] herman Bergson: ok...so we have to expand the existential question to WHo , what an why I am.....

[13:30] ⓆⓊⒶⒺⓏⒶⓇ: A very good evening Herman :)

[13:31] Merlin: It is interesting to consider that Jesus might have been illiterate

[13:31] Gemma Allen: that is where we started

[13:31] Nectanebus: who what when where how?

[13:31] Nectanebus: heheh

[13:31] herman Bergson: I hope you al see that the WH and What are of a different nature than the WHY

[13:31] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:31] ἀρετή: why are all the important questions beginning with the letter 'w'?

[13:31] Velvet: You're right, Merlin, we only have others' accounts of what he said

[13:32] Merlin: ty Velvet

[13:32] herman Bergson: another one Merlin :-))

[13:32] Nectanebus: I think Socrates is a literary troll of ancient Greece, a...what's the word for when people create something that is representative of them as a whole anthromorphously? Sorry, weird fragmentation there...

[13:32] Nectanebus: also typos haha

[13:33] herman Bergson: Doesn't matter Nectabebus...I wouldn't know the answer anyway :-))

[13:33] Nectanebus: nvm, you get the idea

[13:33] Nectanebus: like King Arthur or whatever

[13:33] herman Bergson: a myth

[13:33] Bejiita Imako: aaa ok

[13:33] Merlin: hehe

[13:34] Nectanebus: that's an easy way to say it I guess haha, I do tend to overthink some times

[13:34] Velvet: myths are meant to communicate ideas rather than history

[13:34] Velvet: so, they are philosophical

[13:34] Gemma Allen: there have always been more questions than answers here

[13:34] Chantal: and with every answer...new questions arise

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: indedd

[13:34] herman Bergson: Has to Gemma, otherwise there wouldn't be a next lecture :-))

[13:35] Daruma Boa: i guess its good to have more questions than answers^^

[13:35] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!

[13:35] Daruma Boa: it keeps life going

[13:35] Merlin: Yes indeed Chantal

[13:35] .: Beertje :.: that's why we need a lot more lectures than 500 Gemma ㋡

[13:35] Gemma Allen: that is why there are 500 morecmoing

[13:35] Merlin: A good example is the power of telescopes

[13:35] Nectanebus: Life would be boring without navel gazing

[13:35] herman Bergson: But on the other hand it is an observation that makes sense

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: hehe indeed

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: if all questions were answered would be more booring for sure

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: alwase need something to chase after

[13:35] herman Bergson: Only questions drive us to new answers and solutions....

[13:36] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:36] Velvet: I vote for more solutions!

[13:36] herman Bergson: So...has anyone  still a question about the subject of today?

[13:37] herman Bergson appreciates the silence

[13:37] Bejiita Imako: dont know hehe

[13:37] Velvet: this topic can head off in many directions!

[13:37] herman Bergson: Time to think it all over again perhaps :-)

[13:37] Nectanebus: I'm a bit tired today unfortunately, I'm not up to my usual standard :(

[13:37] Daruma Boa: lol

[13:37] Bejiita Imako: maybe that

[13:37] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:37] Nectanebus: can't elucidate or conjugate at all today heh

[13:38] herman Bergson: Then  I thank you all for your participation again.....

[13:38] ἀρετή: Earlier.. it was mentioned that "A wise man (not a woman) appears on stage." Were there really no women philosophers in history?

[13:38] Velvet: Herman, are we heading into religious territory?

[13:38] Bejiita Imako: hmm also been tored all day, dont know why probably got awakened at wrong moment

[13:38] Gemma Allen: I would like to thank Herman for all the research and work that he has put into all these classes... and giving us vacations and allowing us to miss class .. and never allowing us to graduate ... and no tests... I was really scared the first year he kept promising a test soon!!

[13:38] herman Bergson: It was a real pleasure to have you all here again....

[13:38] .: Beertje :.: thank you Herman and have a goodnight ㋡

[13:38] Velvet: should I bring my seatbelt?

[13:38] Bejiita Imako: then doesn't matter how long i ve slept

[13:38] Lizzy Pleides: thank you herman!

[13:38] Bejiita Imako: will be a wreck

[13:38] Corronach: thanks Herman

498: Buddhism (intro)

In the year 480 B.C. a small force of 300 Spartans, 400 Thebans and 700 men from Boeotian Thespiae fought against the Persians at the Battle of Thermopylae.

The Greco-Persian Wars (499–449 BC) and the Peloponnesian War (431–404 BC) cover the lifetime of  the historical Buddha, also known as Gotama Buddha, Siddhārtha Gautama, and Buddha Śākyamuni (c. 480 BC - c. 400 BC).

Philosophically we encounter Greek philosophers like Empedocles, Anaxagoras and Democritus. All members of the so-called Presocratics.

Buddhism derives its name from the Sanskrit word buddha (awakened, wise, or learned), which was one of the many epithets given to Siddhartha Gautama

He was born in Lumbini, in the Nepalese region of Terai, near the Indian border. He is one of the most important Asian thinkers and spiritual masters of all time, 

and he contributed to many areas of philosophy, including epistemology, metaphysics and ethics. 

The Buddha’s teaching formed the foundation for Buddhist philosophy, initially developed in South Asia, then later in the rest of Asia. Buddhism and Buddhist philosophy now have a global following.

Soon after his death, his disciples met and repeated all they could remember being taught by him, and these recollections were committed to memory.

All the rules he had set down for the community of his disciples were collectively known as the VINAYA. 

The collections of his other teachings on good character, contemplative exercises, and the theory behind them were known collectively as SUTRAS . 

The vinaya and sutras supposedly collected shortly after Gautama’s death became a closed canon for some Buddhists; other Buddhists eventually accepted as canonical a large corpus of other literature.

You may call it coincidence, but the same happened after the death of Jesus. The first gospel written was dated about 70 years after his death.

Then there seem to have existed quite a number of gospel like scriptures. We know about  apocryphal gospels, non-canonical gospels, Jewish-Christian gospels, and gnostic gospels.

Only from the 4th century, there existed unanimity in the West concerning the New Testament canon  as it is today.

What fascinates me in these matters is, that we time and again see the same pattern. A wise man (not a woman) appears on stage.

He appears to be rather influential with his teachings in his time. Then after his death a lot  of his teaching including all kinds of ideas added by others are committed to "paper". The same happened with Confucianism.

The thoughts and teachings survive centuries. People hold on to them. Uses them to organize their lives.

Then only a 350 years or so ago there develops a new way of thinking about life, or at least about certain areas of life. This way of thinking was called scientific thinking.

In the Western world we witness a battle between this new way of thinking about life  and the old ways, where the old ways of thinking loose ground in a sustained way.

This is an ongoing process, where the West began with men like Galileo Galilei, Kepler and Newton, Darwin and Freud.

We see it happen today in Chinese culture, as I pointed out in a previous lecture. We see it happen in certain parts of the Islamic world, where some convulsively cling to old thinking.

Most important to understand this picture is, that you don't think in terms of your own lifespan only. Think in periods of centuries.

These are processes in the evolution of mankind and in our time we are in the midst of a huge turmoil, where it is hard to imagine where it all will lead us.

How to position Buddhism in this ongoing process will be our fascination for the next lectures to come.

The Discussion

.

[13:28] herman Bergson: Thank you... :-))

[13:28] Gemma Allen: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:28] Daruma Boa: ↑☆↛☀─Ⓖяєαşє─☼↚★↑

[13:28] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)

[13:28] Nectanebus claps

[13:28] Gemma Allen: i am looking forward to that

[13:28] Corronach: Thanks herman

[13:28] Nectanebus: Interesting comparison 'twixt the canons there

[13:28] Bejiita Imako: yes that will be interesting

[13:28] Dagg: very interesting points herman

[13:28] Bejiita Imako: ah

[13:29] herman Bergson: Thak you Dagg

[13:29] Guestboook van tipjar stand: Daruma Resident donated L$60. Thank you very much, it is much appreciated!

[13:29] oola Neruda: Buddha spoke of a way of living...etc... but i also see a Buddhism that has many many "gods".... can you tell what happened there?

[13:29] herman Bergsonherman Bergson smiles

[13:29] herman Bergson: There are a number of lectures tocome oola...

[13:29] Nectanebus: Symbolism mainly

[13:29] herman Bergson: and indeed....

[13:29] herman Bergson: do gods belong to realbuddhist philosophy...

[13:30] herman Bergson: we'll investigate that subject of course

[13:30] Gemma Allen: i am not sure they do

[13:30] Dagg: I didnt think so

[13:30] Bejiita Imako: no, buddhism is different

[13:30] Gemma Allen: iam sorrry to leave have ot return to the playa

[13:30] herman Bergson: I neither do see gods in buddhism....

[13:30] Gemma Allen: hope you all get a chance to visit burn2

[13:30] Bejiita Imako: they dont define a god like in other religions

[13:30] Dagg: bye Gemma

[13:31] Bejiita Imako: cu gemma

[13:31] Nectanebus: bye Gem

[13:31] Bejiita Imako: going to burn a while after this too

[13:31] herman Bergson: ok Gemma....you are excused :-))

[13:31] Daruma Boa: bye gemma

[13:31] herman Bergson: Teh only "god" so far I see in buddhism is the self

[13:31] Bejiita Imako: indeed

[13:32] Bejiita Imako: buddhism pictures the founder of it (Sidharta) and not a supernatural being

[13:32] Bejiita Imako: (god)

[13:32] herman Bergson: What gods were you thinking of oola?

[13:33] oola Neruda: i don't really know their names but they are in all kinds of oriental art labled as buddhist

[13:33] Daruma Boa: the "self" is the only solution. and should ber the main point in every religion.

[13:33] Bejiita Imako: thats why i think buddhism is my fav religion

[13:33] herman Bergson: aren't you confusing buddhism and hinduism oola?

[13:33] oola Neruda: no

[13:33] Bejiita Imako: its only good stuff in it

[13:33] herman Bergson: Hinduism has dozens of gods

[13:33] oola Neruda: i was just going to say...that i wasn't confusing it

[13:33] Nectanebus: Thousands, possibly

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: yes they have so many i cant count theml lol

[13:34] oola Neruda: it is buddhist

[13:34] Nectanebus: It depends on term usage. Mahakala can look rather God like if one doesn't undestand what the noose is about, et cetera

[13:34] herman Bergson: We'll keep an open eye for this issue oola....

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: the word avatar btw comes from the hinduism picturing of their gods

[13:34] Bejiita Imako: its how they manifest themself to us

[13:34] Nectanebus: truth, Bejita

[13:34] herman Bergson: indeed Bejiita :-)

[13:34] herman Bergson: so we are all gods here :-))

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: in the same way our avatar is a digital representation of our rl self here

[13:35] Nectanebus: Lawnmower Man time

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: thats why its called avatara, its the same concept

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: only digital

[13:35] herman Bergson: Let's stick to buddhism first :-))

[13:35] Daruma Boa: we are!^^

[13:35] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:36] Dagg: thats already tricky , its a - ism

[13:36] herman Bergson: Well...my point today was that there seems to be a pattern in human mind evolution

[13:37] herman Bergson: in different cultures we see the same pattern

[13:37] Dagg: yes I agree herman, my question is , was it guided or was it a natural eveolutionary proces ?

[13:37] Nectanebus: being what, exactly? For once I don't follow

[13:38] herman Bergson: and the remarkeble thing is that all those traditions are kind of disintegrated by the development of sience

[13:38] herman Bergson: If you remember my previous lecture Dagg, then you would see that my answer is that it is a natural evolutionary process...

[13:39] herman Bergson: It is howour brain is wired....

[13:39] herman Bergson: when you see two things happen...one after the other...

[13:39] herman Bergson: and you wonder...how can that be...

[13:39] herman Bergson: you immedialtely apply causality to it...

[13:39] herman Bergson: A causes B.....

[13:40] herman Bergson: But now we have a name for that error.....

[13:40] herman Bergson: the post hoc proter hoc error...

[13:40] herman Bergson: propter

[13:40] oola Neruda: a need arises and is responded to... but then the culture "evolves" so the response needs to be revisited

[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ok

[13:40] herman Bergson: inmany cases there is causality indeed...but not in all cases...

[13:41] herman Bergson: yes oola....but the primary need we feel is to explain what happened....

[13:41] Bejiita Imako: indeed, those 2 events maybee are not related at all only folowing each other

[13:41] oola Neruda: yes

[13:41] herman Bergson: that is how our brain even has to work if we want tosurvive...

[13:42] herman Bergson: One important aspect here is our consciousness of time

[13:42] herman Bergson: some animals seem to have some kind of memory over time....

[13:43] herman Bergson: we we have it 100%....

[13:43] herman Bergson: that is special...

[13:43] herman Bergson: we remember past event and present event and can deduce future events...

[13:44] herman Bergson: In the past a serious disease was a punishment of God because of our sinful way of living...

[13:44] herman Bergson: now we go to the doctor eand get some medicine and recover

[13:44] NectanebusNectanebus is remembered of the processional in the seventh seal

[13:44] Nectanebus: And depends on the disease and the society

[13:44] Bejiita Imako: yes we understand much better today

[13:44] Nectanebus: let us not forget chinese medicine

[13:44] Bejiita Imako: at least most of us

[13:45] herman Bergson: Maybe chinese medicine is a bit overestimated .....

[13:46] Nectanebus: ?

[13:46] herman Bergson: Well...this is the perspective fromwhich I want to study buddhism....

[13:47] oola Neruda: i recently attended a kind of play that is comic and comes between Noh plays... the plot centered around a japanese doctor and the thunder god who was afraid of accupuncture

[13:47] oola Neruda: well i thought it was funny

[13:47] herman Bergson: So that god was stuck with a heavy headache, I guess :-))

[13:47] Bejiita Imako: hehe its sounds so for sure

[13:48] oola Neruda: yes

[13:48] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:48] herman Bergson: Are there any questions left unanswered or remakrs not heard?

[13:49] oola Neruda: where did all those buddhist gods come from...

[13:49] NectanebusNectanebus chuckles

[13:49] herman Bergson: As I hear no remark, I guess it is good to thank you again for your participation and interest :-)

[13:49] herman Bergson: we'll look into that oola :-))

[13:50] Dagg: thank you :)

[13:50] oola Neruda: ty

[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed

[13:50] Dagg: see you all

[13:50] herman Bergson: or regard it as your homework to find out, oola ^_^

[13:50] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

[13:50] Mikki Louise: ty professor, bye all

[13:50] herman Bergson: Bye Mikki:-))

[13:50] Corronach: thanks herman

[13:50] Bejiita Imako: this gets more and more interesting

[13:50] Nectanebus: Cheers, Herman

[13:50] Nectanebus: See you next time

[13:51] oola Neruda: baiee everyone

[13:51] herman Bergson: Tilll next time Nectanebus

[13:51] Bejiita Imako: aaa almost forgot, a thing for u

[13:51] Bejiita Imako: herman

[13:51] herman Bergson: ohh?

[13:52] herman Bergson: your outfit?

[13:52] Bejiita Imako: yes

[13:52] Bejiita Imako: its from an anime i watch a lot

[13:52] Bejiita Imako: its awesome

[13:53] herman Bergson: Ahh the manga world

[13:53] Bejiita Imako: and when i think about it suitable for theis theme too since we talk about asian philosophies and such

[13:53] Bejiita Imako: yes

[13:53] Bejiita Imako: My avatar is from Dragonball and my outfit from Naruto

[13:53] Bejiita Imako: so 2 in 1 basically

[13:53] Bejiita Imako: hehe

[13:53] herman Bergson: a bargain :-))

[13:54] Bejiita Imako: dont know where i found this, think it was on the market

[13:54] Bejiita Imako: not too expensive

[13:54] Bejiita Imako: search Akatsuki

[13:54] herman Bergson: I'll have a look at that webpage first, bejiita :-))

[13:54] Bejiita Imako: aaa do so

[13:55] Bejiita Imako: lot of good info there

[13:55] Bejiita Imako: found there can be some spoilers in it though, often is

[13:55] Bejiita Imako: for ex about the guy Pain wich is where i am in the series now

[13:56] Bejiita Imako: and that is after in total almost 400 episodes

[13:56] herman Bergson: then you shouldnt read it :-))

[13:56] Bejiita Imako: i will go through some more of the series after ive been on burn now a while again

[13:57] Bejiita Imako: but i recommend that series, its totally genious

[13:57] herman Bergson: I am not such an admirer of TV comics

[13:57] Bejiita Imako: some things u think is in one way at the beginnig turns out to be in a complete other way as u proceed

[13:57] Bejiita Imako: many surprises

[13:58] Bejiita Imako: i dont get how they get it all together

[13:58] herman Bergson: good team of writers

[13:58] herman Bergson: and computers

[13:58] Bejiita Imako: japanese people have some "smart" gene or something

[13:58] Bejiita Imako: they come up with stuff no other in the world can do

[13:59] Bejiita Imako: amazing people

[13:59] herman Bergson: yeah,,,,SUSHI...love it :-))

[13:59] Bejiita Imako: hehe

[13:59] Bejiita Imako: thats nice

[13:59] Bejiita Imako: tasted Ramen?

[13:59] Bejiita Imako: one of my fav

[14:00] Bejiita Imako: the name of the series and its main character naruto is in fact an ingredient in ramen

[14:00] Bejiita Imako: since he loves ramen

[14:00] Bejiita Imako: thats a bit funny

[14:00] Bejiita Imako: hehe

[14:00] herman Bergson: indeed:-)

[14:00] Bejiita Imako: oki time to go and BUUURN some more again