649: What is the meaning of life when you are 92…..?

When I play a game of chess and you ask: Why did you move your rook? , I might answer…because then I can checkmate my opponent in two moves.

  

Then asking why I”d like to checkmate my opponent would be a silly question within the context of the chess game. The checkmate is a goal in itself.

   

It means that the series of questions of “Why…Because” can come to an end, because we have reached a final “Because”,

   

a final justification or explanation why something is the case. We did this by looking into the past to find a meaning of life.

  

We asked why we were born, then why our parents were born, and so on back to the question of why there are people at all 

  

and ended up at the Big Bang and the creation myths of Genesis. That series ended, however, without revealing the MEANING of life.

  

As an answer we got explanations of the facticity of our existence, not of the purpose of it all. But we love purposes, for they give meaning.

   

The Why / Because questioning can be connected with the timeline. In the previous lectures we looked into the past and didn’t find our answer.

   

So maybe we should follow the timeline into the future with our Why / Because questions. The moment we run into a question 

  

which is in fact to silly or dumb to ask, we may have found the final goal we are searching for.

   

Why do you study? Because I want a good job. Why a good job? Because it pays well. Why do you want to be paid well? Because then I can support a family, and so on, and so on…..

   

But here we run into a problem. When does this series of questions end? It has to, for otherwise the goal of life would be out of our reach forever….

   

A lot of movies have as a plot the thesis of the main character: My only purpose in life is to find the murderer of my wife and kill him.

  

The end of the movie is rather satisfactory, when the main character dies in the process of killing the murderer.

  

Mission accomplished. Time to die in peace. But what when the main character stays alive at the end of the movie?

   

If life eventually is about reaching the final end, what is left to do if that goal is reached and we live on? 

  

If life’s goal has been achieved, it can no longer guide our actions and apparently leaves us with nothing to live for.

  

If the meaning of life is connected with achieving a certain goal, then after reaching it, there is emptiness.

  

You’d say, come on, just set your next target, but when it is reached we are again confronted with this ultimate emptiness.

   

This made me think of a political debate that is going on in the Netherlands at the moment. It is about the concept of “a completed life”.

   

It means, that people of high age are done with life. People who long for that morning on which they do not wake up anymore.

  

So, in fact  these people have lost sight on any meaning of life and wish to end it. This concerns healthy people who only experience the consequences of high age, e.g. isolation and lack of mobility.

   

Suicide is not an option socially. Now one political party has proposed a legalisation of helping people in such a situation to end their life.

   

Some parties agree with the legalisation, other, especially christian parties, are strongly against  the proposition.

   

Here we are confronted with serious philosophical questions. Is experiencing no purpose in life at high age a justification for legally helping people to end such a life?

  

Is it a basic right of the individual, to decide about his own (time of) death and asking society to assist him in it?

   

Or are we facing here the outcome of culture, which adores being young and dynamic and regards the elder people as a (financial) burden?

  

What is the meaning of life when you are 92…..?

   

Thank you for your attention…^_^

The Discussion

[13:17] Daruma Boa (daruma): Puh. Difficult topic;-)

[13:17] herman Bergson: Yes indeed Daruma

[13:17] Daruma Boa (daruma): I think its very very personal to decide of someones death

[13:17] CONNIE Eichel: hmmm, humans are not objects, they can't be treated like obsolete stuff, i think

[13:18] herman Bergson: They cant indeed but we do, CONNIE

[13:18] CONNIE Eichel: yes, bad that

[13:18] herman Bergson: When talking about the elder people in politics, they only talk about the costs of healthcare

[13:18] Daruma Boa (daruma): I think its very important t make contact with the one who wants to die

[13:18] Daruma Boa (daruma): that cannot be a overall decisio

[13:18] Daruma Boa (daruma): decision

[13:19] Daruma Boa (daruma): in Switzerland they have such a law

[13:19] herman Bergson: I have a friend....a lady of 95...next week she''ll become 96.....

[13:19] herman Bergson: and she longs for the eternal sleep

[13:19] herman Bergson: yet she has a quite reasonable life..also socially

[13:20] CONNIE Eichel: too many lonely people nowadays, that's the problem i think... in the past, with big families, having a social environment, it helped you to find reasons for living

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe she is tired of living

[13:20] herman Bergson: Do we loose sight of a purpose  in life when we grow (very) old?

[13:20] herman Bergson: she is Beertje

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): my mother in law is 97, she is tired too

[13:20] herman Bergson: But why doesnt she have a purpose of life, why has life lost its meaning for her?

[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i can imagine her longing for eternal sleep

[13:21] CONNIE Eichel: it is like being immortal... it is worthless being immortal, if you will see your beloved ones die

[13:21] herman Bergson: Read Simone de Beauvoir, CONIE....Nobody is Immortal....

[13:21] Daruma Boa (daruma): I think we loose te contact to the "normal" life when we get very old. Life goes on adn mostly we do not follow all new developments, when we get old

[13:21] herman Bergson: and youget that story

[13:21] Daruma Boa (daruma): thats also hard to follow

[13:22] herman Bergson: But, Daruma.....

[13:22] Daruma Boa (daruma): contact with the young and new things I mean

[13:22] herman Bergson: just imagine that what in fact happens is that the older you get the more you are shifted aside....

[13:22] CONNIE Eichel: being important for someone, keeps you alive too... again, too many lonely people

[13:22] Daruma Boa (daruma): that’s true

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:23] herman Bergson: isn’t society itself creating this willingness to end life at old age

[13:23] Daruma Boa (daruma): and thats what I mean, also when you WANT to have contact, its hard to keep up with

[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): shifted aside because of economics

[13:23] herman Bergson: because the older you get the more you see yourself as a burden...that is how you are in the news....

[13:24] herman Bergson: what do I cost society.....

[13:24] skeleton Ghost: society IS creating this willingness, it began with the decapitation of the grandparents from the household

[13:24] herman Bergson: not...what do I mean to society counts

[13:24] herman Bergson: ahh ...good point Skeleton

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's always the money

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): unfortunatley money is everything today

[13:25] CONNIE Eichel: yes, money, and the "being productive" ideas

[13:25] herman Bergson: But what does this observation tell us about our quest after the meaning of life?

[13:25] herman Bergson: in a way it worries me....

[13:25] CONNIE Eichel: yes, and without spirituality... it gets worst

[13:26] Ciska Riverstone: economy is the new religion

[13:26] Ciska Riverstone: that's what its telling us

[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes CONNIE...somehow we have a need of a transcendental purpose, meaning of life....

[13:26] Daruma Boa (daruma): And I think we cannot let the "economy" win.

[13:26] CONNIE Eichel: yep

[13:26] herman Bergson: something to look forward to..or as a light on our path to guide us

[13:26] Daruma Boa (daruma): We are the people. And I hope, tzhat there are enough who have better  ideas in life

[13:27] herman Bergson: There are, Daruma....

[13:27] Daruma Boa (daruma): a but do they raise their voices?

[13:27] herman Bergson: More and more we see the bankrupt of the homo economicus....

[13:27] Daruma Boa (daruma): and life a life to follow?

[13:27] herman Bergson: it takes time Daruma....

[13:28] herman Bergson: lifetimes, generations

[13:28] Daruma Boa (daruma): ja i know;-) this is what I tell day by day myself

[13:28] Daruma Boa (daruma): true

[13:29] herman Bergson: History has demonstrated that ideologies and religions collapse eventually...

[13:29] herman Bergson: thousands of gods are already forgotten....

[13:30] herman Bergson: Ciska advised em the read the book The AGE of NOTHING by Paul Watson....

[13:30] Daruma Boa (daruma): yes, soetes i a afraid that we have to have another war again, to get down on or knees again.

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what does the life of humans mean for the earth?

[13:30] herman Bergson: Is right here on my desk :-)

[13:31] herman Bergson: Oh…and for your information......

[13:31] herman Bergson: I gonna read this book the coming week on Schiermonnikoog :-)

[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)))

[13:32] herman Bergson: Which means...no classes next week..I take a little break :-)

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa ok

[13:32] Daruma Boa (daruma): ah ha-)

[13:32] CONNIE Eichel: oh, ok

[13:32] Ciska Riverstone: happy islanding herman ;)

[13:32] herman Bergson: I certainly will Ciska :-)

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa have a good time over there then ㋡

[13:32] Daruma Boa (daruma): you will be in island?

[13:33] herman Bergson: yes Daruma

[13:33] Daruma Boa (daruma): col

[13:33] Daruma Boa (daruma): o

[13:33] herman Bergson: It is :-)

[13:33] CONNIE Eichel: greetings for Bjork!

[13:33] Daruma Boa (daruma): My boyfriend have been there and he liked it a lot

[13:33] Daruma Boa (daruma): has

[13:33] Ciska Riverstone: island as in insel

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seems a nice place fr sure

[13:33] herman Bergson: Who is Bjork CONNIE?

[13:34] CONNIE Eichel: oh, the singer, dont you know her?

[13:34] Guestboook van tipjar stand: Daruma Resident donated L$51. Thank you very much, it is much appreciated!

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa she is amazing

[13:34] herman Bergson: I am not going to ICELAND :-)

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahahah

[13:34] CONNIE Eichel: oh, hehe

[13:34] herman Bergson: but to the island Schiermonnikoog :-)

[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): at Schiermonnikoog?

[13:34] CONNIE Eichel: no greetings then, hehe

[13:34] herman Bergson: no greetings...I am sorry

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i was about to go to iceland when they had flights from my city but then thy movd that to arlanda stockholm instead

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): damn

[13:35] CB Axel: I'm picturing Herman on a beach in his dapper suit and smoking his pipe. °͜°

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): had been an easy way to finally see a geyser up close

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the place in general

[13:35] herman Bergson: Smoking on a beach in the stormy wind is no option CB :-)

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:36] CB Axel: °͜°

[13:36] herman Bergson: At least I get some extra time to think about the meaning of life...

[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): niet tegen de wind in roken..

[13:36] herman Bergson: As we saw today..looking for it in the past or in the future presents a problem

[13:37] herman Bergson: neither of the two offers us a meaning, a purpose...but only the facticity of life

[13:37] oola Neruda: Ekhart Tolle

[13:37] Daruma Boa (daruma): ;)

[13:37] herman Bergson: who may that be oola?

[13:37] Daruma Boa (daruma): An Author

[13:37] Daruma Boa (daruma): A german one

[13:38] oola Neruda: he talks about living in the NOW

[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so we have to search for the meaning of life in the present?

[13:38] CB Axel: Tolle writes about being in the moment.

[13:38] herman Bergson: THAT is an interesting conclusion oola....

[13:38] Daruma Boa (daruma): ja Beertje i guess thats themost importasnt thing. living here and now

[13:38] Ciska Riverstone: (cause thats all u ever have)

[13:38] herman Bergson: Because...where to look for the meaning of life....

[13:38] herman Bergson: it might be in the NOW indeed...

[13:39] oola Neruda: in being conscious every moment

[13:39] Daruma Boa (daruma): yes we loose a lot the moment now in life. We life mostly yesterday and tomorrow

[13:39] herman Bergson: We'll look into that option in the coming lectures....

[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): tomorrow will never be here

[13:39] Ciska Riverstone: and in fear which is a difficult state for our brains

[13:40] herman Bergson: But don't cheer too quickly here...

[13:40] oola Neruda: to me, true ART is being conscious of the moment... all residue from that experience is exactly that... residue

[13:40] oola Neruda: evidence

[13:41] herman Bergson: For life isn’t just a NOW...life happens in time.....

[13:41] herman Bergson: Somehow we have to deal with a past - now -furute timeline

[13:41] Daruma Boa (daruma): yes, it’s the moment

[13:42] herman Bergson: What we do now has consequences for tomorrow, which does not exists yet at the moemnt....

[13:42] herman Bergson: yet tomorrow is already shaped byour now

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but tomorrow is never here

[13:43] herman Bergson: I guess we have to think this over carefully

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because then its today

[13:43] herman Bergson: Tomorrow is never here indeed Beertje untill you wake up with that huge hangover :-)

[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): how did you know I had one?

[13:44] CONNIE Eichel: :)

[13:44] skeleton Ghost: tomorrow aint here till one day the state is executing the elderly

[13:44] herman Bergson smiles

[13:44] Daruma Boa (daruma): True, we do not have to think too much in life. Our feelings are the most important guidline in life

[13:44] Ciska Riverstone: tolle makes the difference between reality and being in the brain - being in the brain is just toolwork - nice to have - but tookwork - so you can decide easier when u in a moment... if it stops you from deciding easier u use the tool wrong - kind of

[13:44] Daruma Boa (daruma): they will guide us. I am pretty sure

[13:45] Daruma Boa (daruma): Ja ist the "Bauchgefühl" in German^^^

[13:45] Daruma Boa (daruma): german

[13:45] herman Bergson: Sounds a bit like Kierkegaard....we ahve to look into this Ciska :-)

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ich verstehe...

[13:46] Daruma Boa (daruma): ;-)

[13:46] herman Bergson: You have all kinds of "Bauchs"....:-)

[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: well he is based in  modern zen buddhism  fuels it with a special language ( I have my troubles with) and a bit of Kierkegaard might shine in there ;)

[13:46] herman Bergson: bellies

[13:46] Daruma Boa (daruma): ja bellie feeling^^^

[13:47] herman Bergson: that is an interesting statement Daruma....

[13:47] herman Bergson: I believe feelings....

[13:48] herman Bergson: It means that you relate a cognitive act of believing to feelings.....

[13:48] Daruma Boa (daruma): humans are based on feelings

[13:48] Daruma Boa (daruma): not on facts

[13:48] herman Bergson: which might mean that cognition preceeds feeling...:-)

[13:48] oola Neruda: or vice versa

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:48] herman Bergson: so yet the primacy of the ratio Daruma?

[13:49] Daruma Boa (daruma): we have also a brain and ratio to sort out this feeligs. thats true.

[13:49] Daruma Boa (daruma): but we mostly act because of our feelings

[13:49] Daruma Boa (daruma): mostly

[13:50] herman Bergson: I agree with that Daruma :-))

[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: (we rationalize those later on ;) )

[13:50] Daruma Boa (daruma): me too

[13:50] herman Bergson: IS is a misconception to think that homo sapiens is a rational being :-))

[13:50] Daruma Boa (daruma): and thats what makes life so beautiful. we are no ratinal computers

[13:51] Daruma Boa (daruma): rational

[13:51] herman Bergson: far from that...

[13:51] herman Bergson: to compare the human brain with a computer is the silliest thing ever

[13:51] Daruma Boa (daruma): and I think we have to learn to use this "power" of feelings

[13:51] herman Bergson: it is not an information processing machine

[13:52] CONNIE Eichel: we are not a turing machine :)

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not alike even, well along from government people following the law book like a computer blindly follow its software evn its full of ugs

[13:52] herman Bergson: Indeed CONNIE ^_^

[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a computer can not compare with our brain

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bugs

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for example, here in sweden many foreign people living here and having a good work sometimes even top jobs are being expelled from here because the employer have missed a detail somewhere at the moment

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats just totally unhuman

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and then they just say "it says this in the rules"

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): without thinking themselves

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats really sad

[13:54] herman Bergson: Same here in the Netherlands Bejiita....

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): many working on Spotify for ex will be expelled from here for tht reason

[13:54] oola Neruda: hah... trump could teach them how to not follow rules.. .. and get away with it

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lik its their fault

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and even they have lived here for sometimes over 10 years

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like they are 2nd class people

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i dont get it

[13:55] herman Bergson: I guess, it is time to end our discussion :-)

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa i have some friends calling for me now at an event

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have a good time now Herman

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:56] herman Bergson: So ...remember...next week no Philosophy Class.....

[13:56] CONNIE Eichel: yes, enjoy Herman

[13:56] CB Axel: I hope you have a lovely holiday, Herman. °͜°

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): time to go to sleep:)

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu again when you are back

[13:56] oola Neruda: have a great vacation

[13:56] Daruma Boa (daruma): happy holidays!

[13:56] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for your participation....

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): fijne vakantie:)

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: have a good week everyone

[13:56] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...:-))

[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: happy holiday herman

[13:56] skeleton Ghost: have a nice time!

[13:56] CONNIE Eichel: happy holidays!

[13:57] herman Bergson: Thanx Ciska....

[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lekker uitwaaien op Schier:)

[13:57] CONNIE Eichel: byeeee!

[13:57] herman Bergson: Got a lot of reading to do....

[13:57] herman Bergson: Watson is 612 pages!

[13:57] Daruma Boa (daruma): slaap lekker!

[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)

[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): welterusten:)

[13:57] Daruma Boa (daruma): ;-)

[13:58] Daruma Boa (daruma): bis bald!

648: Is the meaning of life found in our future....?

When we think about the historical origins and purpose of life, we can become the victim of a  form of , what is called, the genetic fallacy. 

  

The mistake is to think that an understanding of the historical origins of life automatically says something about the ultimate goal of the current meaning of life. 

But one does not necessarily follow from the other.

  

A sharp piece of stone appeared on the scene without there being any goal for it. But  later it was given a purpose as a tool in the hands of homo sapiens.

  

A cottage built for a specific purpose, such as a toll booth, can be futile if the way at which it is located has become a free-access road. 

  

An initial purpose or its absence does not determine the purpose of the object  for all eternity. 

  

That's why by dwelling on the origin of life we did not  come up with a clear answer to the question of what the purpose of life is

    

and why the naturalistic belief that life is not created for a goal does not mean that life can have no purpose.

  

Also religions didn’t seem the answer to the question Why we are here, unless you accept that we are just servants of some deity, 

   

which is not my choice of a purpose in life. The fact that I can say this, is of course most significant in relation to the meaning of life too.

  

Where then can we continue our search? As I said at the beginning, the question "Why are we here?" has two interpretations. 

  

One the one hand one can look back to our origins, the other approach could be looking for a goal in  our future.

It was 1977. I had graduated and was a professional educator of both philosophy and educational theory and looking for a job.

   

It took me 13 months and 120 letters of application before I finally got an appointment and got a job.

   

During these thirteen months there were moments I was thinking; “What difference does it make to this world 

  

whether I exist or not?” A feeling of complete superfluity after so many years of study.

  

Don’t worry, it was just a rational wondering about my position. It didn’t depress me. I kept on writing letters of applications.

  

It shows how a sense of purpose and meaning can give shape to a human life. It reflects the desire that we often feel 

  

for a clear purpose in the future by which our struggle is meaningful and by which our lives gets a clear direction.

  

Bejiita has in fact given us already some nice examples of how to define the meaning of life by stating 

  

that he looks forward to an up coming Breakdance festival and getting together with a lot of friends and fellow dancers.

  

For other people life goes entirely to earning money, food, drink and sleep, interrupted by periods of rest and relaxation, 

  

all activities serve no other purpose than to keep us alive and healthy. It is tempting to think that our lives would make more sense if our actions  could serve a higher purpose of destination.

  

What we are looking for here is what Aristotle already identified as a teleological explanation of life. TELOS means goal in ancient Greek.

  

According to Aristotle the most characteristic of this goal is, that it is an end in itself.

  

When I play a game of chess and you ask: Why did you move your rook? , I might answer…because then I can checkmate my opponent in two moves.

  

Then asking why I”d like to checkmate my opponent would be a silly question within the context of the chess game. The checkmate is a goal in itself.

   

However, when asked why I want to live on, we really need some time to think about a possible end in itself within the context of our life….can we find one?

  

To be continued….thank you … ^_^

The Discussion

[13:20] CB Axel: From now on, my goal will be to checkmate my opponents. °͜°

[13:21] herman Bergson: If you have any questions or remarks...feel free the floor is yours :-)

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:21] TooEasilyDistracted: (time to comment?)

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:21] herman Bergson: good move CB :-)

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): was thinking of all the young people all over the world that are in the same situation as you were

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and asking themslves

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good thing they are young

[13:21] herman Bergson: yes Gemma....

[13:21] CB Axel: Hi, Ciska.

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hi Ciska

[13:22] herman Bergson: Hi Ciska :-)

[13:22] Ciska Riverstone whispers: hi everyone - sorry fo being late

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): life

[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Ciska:))

[13:22] herman Bergson: As I was sitting at the dinnertable last weekend with among others a young boy of hardly 16

[13:23] herman Bergson: We were discussing the future...

[13:23] herman Bergson: mine is short...his was still a long way to go....

[13:23] TooEasilyDistracted: When we think about the historical origins of life, it can help us understand why we want what we want.

[13:24] herman Bergson: But the interesting thing was that the young man was quite clear about his future...what he wanted to become and so on...

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is youth for sure

[13:24] TooEasilyDistracted: herman, do you think he will want the same thing in a few years?

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah

[13:24] herman Bergson: and that TED is the genetic fallacy...

[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): most people change their goals when they get older

[13:25] TooEasilyDistracted: Are you saying that it is important to ignore one's tropisms?

[13:25] herman Bergson: I dont know TED..

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I have never been really sure about my goals, i have many, but i want all of thm to make me feel good and happy

[13:25] herman Bergson: But when I was 18 I wanted to become an educator...and so I did :-)

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but for ex since i’m technically interested i became an engineer

[13:26] TooEasilyDistracted: In my model, I find it important to pay attention to my tropisms, in the interest of being as much myself as I can be.

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and also now i want to learn as many programming languages i can and make some games with them and let my fantasy flow wild

[13:26] herman Bergson: what is a tropism.......?

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and that streetdance party was totally amazing

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): loved every minute of that weekend

[13:27] TooEasilyDistracted: Ah, Particle, programming can be so engaging

[13:27] herman Bergson: almost read it wrongly as trumpism ^_^

[13:27] CB Axel: A natural inclination or tendency.

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lolI was searching that in google translate

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): biological

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): basically I’m a guy that needs something motivating to do all time

[13:27] TooEasilyDistracted: Tropism is a natural tending toward, for example plants reaching for a light source.  Human male attraction to female pheromones.

[13:28] herman Bergson: Being yourself is a very difficult issue, I'd say....

[13:28] TooEasilyDistracted: Yes indeed.

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so a lot of the physical

[13:28] herman Bergson: That is a Aristotelian approach TED

[13:28] herman Bergson: I have this problem....

[13:28] herman Bergson: Here I am.....talking to myself.....

[13:29] herman Bergson: but is myself the same as I am or am I thinking bad about myself for instance? :-)

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hmm

[13:29] herman Bergson: and why am I smarter than myself?

[13:30] TooEasilyDistracted: It can be hard to know.  There's a lot going on in our heads that we can't monitor.  I have spent years thinking about uncertainty, and how to cope.

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we do that a lot i think

[13:30] herman Bergson: So to set becoming yourself  as a goal is quite difficult...

[13:30] herman Bergson: who has the knowledge about that self?

[13:31] TooEasilyDistracted: It's not a goal in the sense of expecting to reach it.  My life work is building a model based on experience that helps me be effective.

[13:32] herman Bergson: A philosopher has no problems with uncertainty...he has problems with people who claim to be certain about hings :-)

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:32] TooEasilyDistracted: I like that attitude.  I am only certain about one thing.

[13:32] herman Bergson: don't laugh Gemma :-))))

[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i know it is true

[13:32] herman Bergson grins

[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is that thing that you are certain about Ted?

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): as we always come up with new questions

[13:33] TooEasilyDistracted: Thx Beertje, waiting for that... Consciousness IS.

[13:33] herman Bergson: YEs...guess that is the best you can say about it, TED :-)

[13:34] TooEasilyDistracted: Beyond that, I can make choices in how I build my model, but have to know they are choices and there are other possibilities.

[13:34] herman Bergson: And I like that it is, so that we can ask for the purpose and meaning of life

[13:35] TooEasilyDistracted: I find my motivations include supporting other lives...

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we are getting a lot of lectures ad things to consider

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:36] TooEasilyDistracted: I'm a friendly cuss, my genetic heritage contributes and my family/memetic environment has furthered...

[13:36] herman Bergson: And we are almost celebrating out tenth anniversary, Gemma :-))

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wwo

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i dont feel that much smarter either

[13:37] herman Bergson: Will be September or November this year...2017....:-)

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): just more to think about

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): met lots of philosophers and philosophies

[13:37] herman Bergson: this IS  a proof of being smarter Gemma :-)

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): one one i really really dislike

[13:38] CB Axel: All that time and you still haven't found the meaning of life?

[13:38] herman Bergson: who was that?

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ayn rand

[13:38] herman Bergson: oh my yes....

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nope cb

[13:38] herman Bergson: I would disagree, Gemma...you found a meaning otherwise your wouldn't be alive, I'd say :-)

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right and she is in my face daily now it seems

[13:39] TooEasilyDistracted: Some people like being lonely.  Sociopathic?  More people than generally realized.

[13:39] herman Bergson: You should make a difference TED....

[13:39] CB Axel: People like being lonely or find that being alone isn't lonely?

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): never lonely

[13:39] TooEasilyDistracted: I understand Ayn influenced many political/corporate leaders, and misery has resulted.

[13:39] herman Bergson: Some people like to be alone, which does not imply that they are lonely...

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right

[13:40] TooEasilyDistracted: ? make a difference ?  distinction between x and y, or try to make a difference in society?

[13:40] herman Bergson: to feel lonely is a negative feeling towards your life (situation)

[13:41] herman Bergson: so deal with this negative feeling....

[13:41] TooEasilyDistracted: Sorry, I was unclear.  Some people like to think of themselves as happily isolated; I would be lonely as isolated.

[13:42] CB Axel: I was just thinking about how one can make a difference in a big way or in a small way.

[13:42] TooEasilyDistracted: Example, CB?

[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): isolation is negative in my opinion, but beiing alone from time to time is heaven:)

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): me too, at least i need to see all my friends now and then

[13:43] CB Axel: One can make a small donation to, say, a Feed A Smile kiosk. It is a small gesture, but helps to make a difference in a big way to a poor child in Kenya.

[13:43] CB Axel: What's small to me, a couple US$, a pittance, can buy an entire meal or more in Kenya,.

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): even lindens make a difference

[13:44] herman Bergson: this leads to all kinds of discussions CB...ow to define small/big.....

[13:44] herman Bergson: I'd rather not start that discussion now

[13:44] herman Bergson: although it gives purpose to our SLife at the moment :-))

[13:45] herman Bergson: Anyway.....

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope i can make it Thursday

[13:45] TooEasilyDistracted: It is easy to find way more worthy causes to donate to than I have spare money to fund.

[13:45] CB Axel: I know what you mean, TED.

[13:46] TooEasilyDistracted: Better to put effort into improving economy for all...

[13:46] herman Bergson: Looking into the past didn’t offer us a clear answer of the question about the menaing of life...

[13:46] CB Axel: The future can't give us a clear answer, either. We don't know the future.

[13:46] herman Bergson: Next step is to see if there is a purpose ...a destination for mankind in the future.....is that the meaning of life?

[13:46] TooEasilyDistracted: herman, are you sure there is a meaning of life?  In the abstract?  Or even that each person has one?

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): amazing that we go on

[13:47] CB Axel: What does keep us going on?

[13:47] TooEasilyDistracted: Gemma, perfectly natural that the descendents of those who wanted to survive are the ones who are here.

[13:47] herman Bergson: TED...I could give you a clear answer, but then I would spoil all my future lectures :-)

[13:47] herman Bergson: on this subject

[13:47] TooEasilyDistracted: no problemo...

[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): almost like lower animals then

[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): instinct

[13:48] TooEasilyDistracted: We are animals.

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i know

[13:48] TooEasilyDistracted: What happens if AI wakes up?

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i am now going to a mardi gras party

[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): who?

[13:48] TooEasilyDistracted: Have a wonderful time, Gemma

[13:48] herman Bergson: We are indeed, but agian....definitions!

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: happy partying Gemma ㋡

[13:48] CB Axel: Artificial intelligence, Beertje.

[13:49] CB Axel: A.I.

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice

[13:49] TooEasilyDistracted: Beertje, CB is correct

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:49] herman Bergson: Ahh time to conclude our discussion....Gemma's life has gotten another purpose now :-)

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:49] CB Axel: LOL

[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): sorry still need a translation here in class

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): where is that party?

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we all do beertje

[13:49] CB Axel: Ah, the purpose in life is to collect cheap plastic beads.

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): at time

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): dont raly know what to do after this lecture

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): really

[13:50] CB Axel: We have come so far since our early ancestors.

[13:50] herman Bergson: Partytime....so....class dismissed...and thank you all again for your participation

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now

[13:50] TooEasilyDistracted: Does anyone go to Philosophy House?  Or Bobcat Village?

[13:50] CB Axel: See you all on Thursday. °͜°

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now

[13:50] TooEasilyDistracted: Thank you for interesting lecture, herman

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Gemma:)

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:50] herman Bergson: My pleasure TED :-)

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman:)

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): goodnight everybody

[13:51] Ciska Riverstone: good night

[13:51] Joseph Bard (science24): bye everyone , take care :)

[13:52] herman Bergson: Bye Joseph :-)

[13:52] Jeanne Valois (jeannevalois): thanks ... goodnight :)

[13:52] TooEasilyDistracted: Interesting group of people

[13:53] herman Bergson: Yes....for ten years now...

[13:53] herman Bergson: 99% of the meetings are like this

[13:53] TooEasilyDistracted: Same "students"?

[13:53] herman Bergson: Well a few...

[13:53] herman Bergson: Bejiita, Gemma, Ciska, Beertje

[13:53] herman Bergson: and CB

  

647: We love stories.......

Recently I read an article in my newspaper of which I thought, that it could be interesting for us in our quest for the meaning of life.

   

We’ll digress a little from our original path, but I think it is worth it. I want your opinion about the following text:

  

-START- We exist as bio-electricity. Today, science tells us that the essence of nature is stardust. We dream, we self-actualize, we are reborn. 

  

We must heal ourselves and empower others. Who are we? Where on the great path will we be awakened? 

  

We are in the midst of a mythic ennobling of non-locality that will clear a path toward the galaxy itself. 

  

Reality has always been beaming with dreamweavers whose essences are engulfed in intuition. We are at a crossroads of fulfilment and dogma. 

  

Humankind has nothing to lose. Throughout history, humans have been interacting with the world via frequencies. 

  

Our conversations with other adventurers have led to an invocation of supra-mystical consciousness. 

  

The current of aspiration is now happening worldwide. Soon there will be an evolving of serenity the likes of which the planet has never seen.  -END-

    

Well,  what do you think? What’s  your opinion about this disquisition? Tell me…

[13:11] CB Axel: I don't think we'll see serenity in my lifetime.

[13:11] herman Bergson: ok

[13:12] herman Bergson: anyone else?

[13:12] herman Bergson: It didnt ring any bell?

[13:12] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm not sure

[13:13] herman Bergson: Well...let me help you :-)

  

This text was created with The New-Age Bullshit Generator at http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/

  

However, when you read some meaning in this text, it is not surprising. My point is this:

   

Even when you give people a meaningless mishmash of words, a number of them will  yet try to make something profound of it.

  

There is something special in our minds. You could call it the primacy of the narrative.

  

Our preference for the narrative explains why we can appreciate art and literature. I catch myself in the act here,  

   

because I often say that the pictures I post on my Flickr page are not pictures but small stories actually.

   

The narrative plays an important role these days. When the story is good, the truth value of facts seems less important.

   

Just look how Trump can lie about anything as long as he has a good story. Think of the new phenomenon of fake news.

  

And then al these conspiracy stories about e.g. 9/11 or the murder on Kennedy. We love stories. Fact checking seems secondary.

   

In that sense it also relates to our quest for the meaning of life. All religions come with stories of which we sometimes even don’t question the factuality at all.

  

Even when not factual at all, we love stories. They sound coherent, They put things in place.

   

Maybe this can be a warning for us to stay alert and not the fall for the very first good story about the meaning of life….

   

Thank you… ^_^

   

The Discussion

[13:20] CB Axel: Or we have to make up our own stories about the meaning of life.

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I make a great distinction here, art and literature is one thing and doesnt have to be real, for ex sci fi fantasy

[13:20] CB Axel: Instead of life giving us a meaning, we need to make up our own meaning to give life.

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ut stories about what is actually ocurring in reality i want to be true and not just lie after lie

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the reality is not a sci fi novel

[13:21] CB Axel: I agree, Bejiita.

[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes CB.....

[13:21] herman Bergson: and the most intriguing thing in this process is.....

[13:21] herman Bergson: do differnet people yet come up with a similar story?

[13:22] CB Axel: That would be hard to determine.

[13:22] herman Bergson: The problem is, Bejiita, that the narrative overshadows the facticity easily....

[13:22] herman Bergson: They did an experiment....

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seems so

[13:22] herman Bergson: People got toread a story.....

[13:22] CB Axel: Have people come up with the same god stories or have they all been taught the same stories.

[13:22] herman Bergson: but in that story were factual mistakes....

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but still

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ut that is me

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but

[13:23] herman Bergson: like ...The moved to St Peterburg, because they wanted to live in the capitla of the country...

[13:23] herman Bergson: When he readers later ware asked...what is the captial of russia...a 25% said...ST Petersburg

[13:23] Laila Schuman: that is why i believe that the Bible and the Quoran are written as poetry... that they allude to meanings but are not concrete meanings

[13:24] Laila Schuman: a pathway

[13:24] herman Bergson: true...

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:24] herman Bergson: they are good stories....

[13:24] herman Bergson: and when you add a will to believe to it, factual truth becomes almost irrelevant

[13:25] CB Axel: I just listened to a Hidden Brain podcast where they talked about information bias.

[13:25] herman Bergson: ahh...

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but not true at all, if it was just a story but here its someone trying to convince people this is how the world works, its reality, not a story

[13:25] herman Bergson: And what did it tell you CB?

[13:25] CB Axel: How if people are told something, even if false, it changed their perceptions about other things.

[13:25] CB Axel: I can't be more specific. I was in bed with this fever and may have dreamed some of it.

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for ex many good films have been created from the bible and similar works

[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes, it does....

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but those are also just films = fantasy

[13:26] CB Axel: I do recommend the podcast, though, if it's available in your area.

[13:26] herman Bergson: Just take the example that someone tells you something bad about a good person you know....

[13:26] herman Bergson: it is a lie..but yet...your perception of the good person may have become a little biased

[13:27] herman Bergson: I dont know anything about podcasts :-)

[13:27] herman Bergson: Never listened to it

[13:28] CB Axel: It's free from iTunes or their website.

[13:28] herman Bergson: Neither do I know whereto find them :-)

[13:28] CB Axel: http://www.npr.org/series/423302056/hidden-brain

[13:28] herman Bergson: ok :-)

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i listen o a lot of such ones, right now a dance friend send me a link to a pot about swedish breakdance history and legends and also i follow one called kodsnack = code talk in swedish about programming

[13:29] herman Bergson: interesting....

[13:29] CB Axel: I listen to mostly science podcasts.

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you can learn much from pods

[13:30] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): aw sorry . my pc started maintenance... ill try to read back

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): is that the same as TED talks?

[13:30] herman Bergson: But the message of today is that we should stay alert and not go for nice stories in the first place, but still for fact checking

[13:30] CB Axel: Hidden Brain is the one I look forward to most. °͜°

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): podcast come from apples ipod, like audiobooks and similar you can download as an mp3 into them instead of reading a book, they can be about everything

[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok, thank you

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hence podcast have become the general term for these

[13:31] herman Bergson: worth looking into it....

[13:32] herman Bergson: I'll try first to reveal that Hidden Brain of CB :-)

[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but there is so much fake news on hte internet

[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we should check everything we here there

[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hear

[13:32] CB Axel: I used to host a group for listening to a podcast at the Science Circle for awhile. I should start one for Hidden Brain. °͜°

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed and people just swallow it all and then violence ensures

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hate flooding the world based on lies

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): really sad

[13:32] CB Axel: I try to look into every website you all post here. °͜°

[13:33] CB Axel: Ah! I found the one I was talking about.

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and i think every time, are everyone this stupid, then i have lost belief in humanity

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): dont get it

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): check facts!

[13:33] herman Bergson: Not so pessimistic Bejiita :-)

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very important

[13:33] herman Bergson: Look at history.....

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when reading a story you have to stop and think and not instantly react

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but thats what people do today

[13:34] herman Bergson: There have been crazy and stupid rulers all the time.....and crazy crowds too

[13:34] CB Axel: It was about how studying economics makes us selfish by planting the idea of looking out for yourself even at the expense of others is good economic policy.

[13:34] herman Bergson: That is what I said, Bejiita....we love stories......

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seems so no matter what the story is

[13:35] herman Bergson: When Trump says time and again he is acting in defence of the safety of the country, the story of present and imminent violence is in the minds of the listeners

[13:35] CB Axel: I love the story of the Magna Carta. I've been thinking we need to have a meeting with Trump at Runnymede.

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but a story for me is almost always not real and should be read as a work of art, like that sci fi novel, and not be interpreted as reality

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): story vs fact and news

[13:36] Laila Schuman: if you hear something approximately seven times...then you tend to believe it

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very important difference to me

[13:36] herman Bergson: He thus creates the story of permanent terrorist violence in the US, allthough there hasnt been a terrorist attack for more than almost 10 years  in the US

[13:36] CB Axel: Ah. Another of the podcasts was about how people like to think of their governments as a sort of a parent, as in the fatherland or mother country.

[13:36] Laila Schuman: so "they" make sure that around ten people make the same statement around the same period of time...

[13:36] Laila Schuman: part of politics

[13:36] CB Axel: When in frightening times, we turn to our "parent" for protection.

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just like Hitler did = scary

[13:37] Laila Schuman: propaganda technique

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump act just like that

[13:37] Laila Schuman: right now, fear is being planted... and nurtured

[13:37] Laila Schuman: a technique for dictators

[13:37] CB Axel: Conservatives like a strict parent who lays down the law. Liberals prefer a nuturing parent who will care for us.

[13:37] herman Bergson: Iam amazed to witness that a Trump with his stories is able to destroy all credibility of his country

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree

[13:38] Laila Schuman: agree

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its mindbogglng to me

[13:38] herman Bergson: And most amazing is that maybe 40% of the people even believe him and agree with him

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): another thing to that yes

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have people not learned more

[13:39] CB Axel: I agree with what Laila is saying.

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just dont get it

[13:39] Laila Schuman: the new head of the dept of education... is setting things up in a way that is not going to help people THINK

[13:39] Laila Schuman: divide and conquer

[13:39] herman Bergson: yes...

[13:40] CB Axel: She scares me the most with the new EPA head second scariest.

[13:40] Laila Schuman: teach them in the way that is most expedient

[13:40] Laila Schuman: leads to your own ends

[13:40] herman Bergson: Well...from my side of the Atlantic.....these developments worry me....

[13:40] Laila Schuman: make your own "truth"

[13:41] CB Axel: They scare me shitless.

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if this continues WW3 might be upon us very soon, someone of these maniacs do something really stupid, then the entire planet gets niked

[13:41] CB Axel: Pardon my language. °͜°

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nuked

[13:41] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): propaganda was a lot during nazi mouvement too

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly same pattern as then now almost

[13:42] CB Axel: Yeah, and Trump is using a lot of the same techniques.

[13:42] CB Axel: But how do we change the story he's telling us?

[13:42] Laila Schuman whispers: a new head of security has been sworn in ... he sounds like a person who will stand up to trump... thank goodness... and hopefully he will get

[13:42] Laila Schuman: Bannon banned from the security council

[13:42] CB Axel: Hi, Ciska.

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hi CIska

[13:43] Ciska Riverstone whispers: hi everyone

[13:43] herman Bergson: Hi Ciska :-)

[13:43] herman Bergson: Unfortunately we are done now......

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well first of all we assume everything Trump says is a big fat lie and then check facts

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): problem solved (almost)

[13:43] Laila Schuman: yes

[13:44] herman Bergson: As I told you today Bejiita....

[13:44] CB Axel: OK. Let me rephrase that. How do we get the people who want to believe his crap to do that?

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): after what he said about sweden (nothing happened here at all) im 100 % on that

[13:44] herman Bergson: when the story is a good one, fact checking isnt that effective anymore to undo the effect of the story

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:45] CB Axel: And don't forget that they think we're the fools who don't want to face the "truth."

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats the probem needed to be solved so save this sinking ship

[13:45] Laila Schuman: Fox News has an entertainment license.... not a license for News....

[13:45] herman Bergson: Nono bejiita....he meant something with increase of criminality and immigration.....not a terrorist attack

[13:45] CB Axel: They want to believe the alternate facts that fit in with their "stories."

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he said something like "look what happened now on friday in Sweden" nothing particular occured anywhere here

[13:46] Laila Schuman: they want to not be held to the truth... through legal channels

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ordinary calm day

[13:46] herman Bergson: Yes...brilliant invention..."ALTERNATIVE FACTS"

[13:46] herman Bergson: Let me conclude this alternative discussion for now :-)

[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the most used word in 2017 I suppose..alternative facts!

[13:47] herman Bergson: otherwise we might go on for hours.....

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:47] CB Axel: True. And I'm tired. °͜°

[13:47] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for your participation....

[13:47] herman Bergson: Class dismissed

[13:47] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was great again

[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡