691: Just be yourself.......

I am sorry I had to cancel two lectures, but it was inevitable due to personal RL circumstances. Don’t worry, I have no health problems :-)

    

So let’s resume our search for the meaning of our Self.

Time and again you can hear someone say: "Just be yourself!" But what does it actually mean to be 'yourself'? 

   

Aren’t you always yourself? Or can you be not yourself? Are you still yourself, if you present yourself as  better person on social media than you really are? 

Are you still yourself if you are guided by social expectations, for example about which clothes you should wear or which study to choose? 

    

In philosophy, being yourself is also called 'authenticity'. When we say that a person is authentic, we mean to say that he or she has something 'original' or something 'real'. 

    

Authenticity therefore revolves around the question of who we are in the deepest sense and whether that is expressed in the life we ​​live. 

   

Is the life we ​​live an authentic life,  a life that does justice to who we really are? 

    

In order to get a better picture of what authenticity means, we will first discuss the work of Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1712 -1778) and Karl Marx (1818 - 1883). 

    

Both philosophers understand authenticity as a way of life that is based on the natural needs of people, but which at the same time is under pressure and is no longer self-evident. 

   

Rousseau connects authenticity with a natural form of self-love that has come into question due to the emergence of human society. 

   

Marx connects authenticity with a natural form of labor that is threatened by the rise of capitalism.

    

Then I’ll discuss the position of Jean-Paul Sartre, who can be seen as a critic of both Rousseau and Marx. 

   

According to Sartre (1905 - 1980), authenticity is not about discovering your real authentic self, but about staying true to yourself through so-called 'radical choices'. 

   

I also will deal with the theory of Charles Taylor (1931 -…), a Canadian philosopher,, who states that choices are always made against a background of certain (moral) values. 

   

Because of this they can never be as radical as Sartre would have us believe. However, Taylor's theory gives rise to other problems that we will discuss. 

   

Then I also will discuss a possible response from Harry Frankfurt (1929 - …), an American philosopher, who understands authenticity as making choices based on what we really like. 

    

Finally, I will focus on the work of Christine Korsgaard (1952 - …), a Harvard professor of philosophy, in which the concept of authenticity is replaced by autonomy.

    

As you can see, this is going to be quite a chapter of our project.

   

For that reason, I’d like to make December a Holiday Month and resume our studies in a New Year, that is in January 2018.

    

Thank you for your attentention….^_^

The Discussion

[13:16] Ciska Riverstone: thanx herman

[13:16] herman Bergson: In other words...I need a vacation ^_^

[13:17] Ciska Riverstone: missing parfitt a bit ;)

[13:17] CB Axel: All of those points of view sound really interesting.

[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Schier here he comes:)

[13:17] Ciska Riverstone: yes of course vacation first ;)

[13:17] herman Bergson: Yes indeed Ciska...I'll make a note of that

[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:17] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): your autentic self needs an autentic vacation from yourself

[13:17] CB Axel: lol

[13:18] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): you need to go on holiday like someone else

[13:18] herman Bergson: a very authentic observation, John :-))

[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:18] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): ergo, have a vacation where you would never normally go and do what you would never do

[13:18] Ciska Riverstone: well isn't that what we try to do when we first come in here, john? only to find out its impossible?

[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): go to Maastrich Herman:)

[13:18] herman Bergson: geez...Beertje!

[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): grins

[13:19] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): Sure Ciska

[13:19] Ciska Riverstone whispers: Hi windows btw

[13:19] Windows Bhalti authentically waves to the group

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess being yourself means not trying to impersonate others, take after others but do your own thing with your own unique personality

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not trying mimickikn justin bieber for ex

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:19] Ciska Riverstone whispers: sorry for the ignore - I guess i'm still to angry with my windows10 update so I ignored the name :/

[13:19] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): we take a vacation every time we log in,yet we suspect we are closer to our true self in here than in RL

[13:20] herman Bergson: MAybe John....

[13:20] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): waves back to Windows

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in sl some persons try hide their true personalities and be someone else

[13:20] herman Bergson: I ahve come to the conclusion so far that the Self is the result of a thought process...

[13:20] CB Axel: Or we come here to get away from our real selves to become someone else.

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i dont however, im same guy rl as in here

[13:21] herman Bergson: It can be both ways indeed....being yourself here, authentic, or role play

[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:21] Windows Bhalti: somehow that hair gives lie to your assertion, bejiita

[13:22] herman Bergson: Forinstance all those guys with female alts...:-)

[13:22] CB Axel: You don't know that, Windows. LOL

[13:22] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): we don't need masks here, no social judgment.

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe maybee but not when it comes to me as a person

[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): are there guys with female alts here?

[13:22] Windows Bhalti nods and laughs

[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): omg

[13:22] CB Axel: I am a 100% female racoon.

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats another xample wich is common here as i get it

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaa

[13:22] CB Axel: *raccoon

[13:22] herman Bergson: Beertje...don't play silly :-)

[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): me?

[13:23] Mikki Louise (mikkilouise) is online.

[13:23] herman Bergson: I know in RL you are a guy :-)) Beertje :-)))

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in here i dont know though but it is kind of common in general in sl as i get it

[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hahhahaha

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:24] roos Gartner is online.

[13:24] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): you're a man but your true self is a woman. You feel female inside. Here you can be your true self

[13:24] herman Bergson: But the Self in relation to a virtual life is interesting indeed :-)

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): doesnt matter anyway, you are the same Beertje to me as you have always been

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you all are the same

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): long time friends

[13:24] Max Chatnoir is offline.

[13:25] bijoux Lefevre is online.

[13:25] herman Bergson: I regard time as a part of the Self....

[13:25] herman Bergson: or actually the awareness of your history

[13:25] CB Axel: Time must be part of it. Time changes the self.

[13:25] herman Bergson: A bit like Locke's idea, I think

[13:26] Ciska Riverstone: experience...

[13:26] Second Life: Ciska Riverstone gave you Happy, Pharell (add) by Angy.

[13:26] herman Bergson: The experience of personal continuity

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:27] Ciska Riverstone: well no experience is some kind of interaction on the lowest level

[13:27] herman Bergson: And to be yourself is being faithful to your personal history.....

[13:27] bijoux Lefevre is offline.

[13:27] Ciska Riverstone: to the  most complex

[13:27] Ciska Riverstone: (from not on)

[13:27] herman Bergson: and if that is a hisotry of being an asshole....you'll stay an asshole, John :-)

[13:28] bijoux Lefevre is online.

[13:28] herman Bergson: Hello Alter...long time no see :-)

[13:28] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): noted down, Herman. I stay an asshole. But I am curious about your sources

[13:28] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): who says that?

[13:28] Alterglobalization: hi herman

[13:29] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): And what the heck has it to do labour and the economy with identity?

[13:29] herman Bergson: I didnt mean that YOU are one.....:-))

[13:29] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): ahhahaha

[13:29] herman Bergson: I meant it just in general

[13:29] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): you should know me by know Herman.

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but Trump will always be Trump for ex = greedy lying asshole

[13:29] Alterglobalization: what is the topic ?

[13:29] herman Bergson: your Self Alter :-)

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): being yourself

[13:29] Alterglobalization: ah

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and what that means

[13:30] Alterglobalization: i don't know who i am

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the hardest lesson of all

[13:30] Alterglobalization: i think i have personality disorder

[13:30] herman Bergson: Happens, yes

[13:30] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): know youserf, Aristotelis used to day

[13:30] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): yourself

[13:30] Alterglobalization: no

[13:30] Alterglobalization: it's platon

[13:30] Alterglobalization: who used to say that

[13:30] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): they are the same firm

[13:31] Alterglobalization: no

[13:31] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): one wrote what the other said

[13:31] Alterglobalization: platon and aristote

[13:31] Alterglobalization: are very different

[13:31] Alterglobalization: and platon wrote what socrate said

[13:31] herman Bergson: Maybe it was the Oracle of Delphi

[13:31] Alterglobalization: "know yourself"

[13:31] Alterglobalization: so it's from socrate

[13:32] herman Bergson: He said I know that I do not know....

[13:32] Alterglobalization: i was listening a podcast on the difficulty to disobey

[13:32] Alterglobalization: and the french philosopher frederic gros

[13:33] Ladyy Haven (ladyy.haven) is offline.

[13:33] Alterglobalization: said that nowadays nobody is more submitted than before because we tell to people "be yourself"

[13:33] Alterglobalization: and by being themself people fall into narcissism and selfishness

[13:33] Alterglobalization: instead of daring to think by themself

[13:33] herman Bergson: interesting observation...

[13:34] herman Bergson: but why would authenticity of the person lead to narcism and selfishness?

[13:35] Alterglobalization: it didn't talk about autencity

[13:35] herman Bergson: if you have your moral standards and want to be yourself/ authentic....why then fall into selfishness

[13:35] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): focussing on onseself leads to selfishness

[13:35] Alterglobalization: but about the misunderstanding about "know yourself"

[13:35] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the quest for one's own identity might lead to that

[13:35] Alterglobalization: at the era of socrate

[13:35] Ciska Riverstone: whats authenticity and whats narcism  for u herman?

[13:35] Cordahlia is online.

[13:36] Alterglobalization: "knowing onself" was considered as dangerous

[13:36] Alterglobalization: because it leaded to disobey

[13:36] Alterglobalization: the rules and to question them

[13:36] herman Bergson: I would begin with refering to Rousseau Ciska.....

[13:36] herman Bergson: who thought of a positive natural state of man.....

[13:37] Alterglobalization: meanwhile nowadays when we say "know yourself" people don't disobey because they fall into a narcissism and selfishness created by capitalism and consumerism

[13:37] Ciska Riverstone: thats too vague to distiguish  isn't it?

[13:37] Alterglobalization: so this sentence tends to make a population more submitted

[13:37] herman Bergson: That is what we will discuss indeed , Alter, when we get to Maarx

[13:37] Alterglobalization: yeah

[13:38] Alterglobalization: but "know yourself" was a political statement

[13:38] Alterglobalization: from socrate and platon

[13:38] herman Bergson: in what sense 'political'?

[13:38] Alterglobalization: in the sense that it was not admitted

[13:38] Alterglobalization: and it leaded to the persecution of socrates

[13:39] herman Bergson: you mean that knowing yoursself leads to disobedience. ALter?

[13:39] Alterglobalization: yeah when socrates claimed that

[13:39] Mikki Louise (mikkilouise) is offline.

[13:39] Alterglobalization: it leaded to disobedience

[13:39] Alterglobalization: that's why he has been killed for it

[13:40] Alterglobalization: and nowadays, when we say to someone "know yourself" it's  not about disobedience

[13:40] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the aim? What is the goal when you get to know yourself? Happiness, wisdom?

[13:40] Alterglobalization: it's about know yourself so that you know what to do in this society

[13:41] Mikki Louise (mikkilouise) is online.

[13:41] herman Bergson: which may relate to wisdom and happiness indeed

[13:41] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): so it's happiness, ultimately. To fit and to be happy and content

[13:41] Alterglobalization: not really

[13:41] Alterglobalization: that's the misinterpretation of nowadays

[13:41] Alterglobalization: which leads to narcissism and individualism

[13:42] herman Bergson: I think we need a few more lecture to get all this cleared :-)

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess

[13:43] Alterglobalization: the exercice of the thought doesn't make happy

[13:43] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): so according to Rousseau, know youself means know and rejoin the happy and honest savage that is inside you?

[13:43] herman Bergson: And as I suggested....We can do that with a fresh start in a New Year :-))

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I dont think knowing myself better will make me selfish though

[13:43] Alterglobalization: "know yourself" from socrates means "think by yourself"

[13:44] Alterglobalization: and not "find what makes you happy in this society"

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have a nice holiday Herman

[13:44] herman Bergson: In a nutshell..yes John :-)

[13:44] Ciska Riverstone: u sure?

[13:44] herman Bergson: about what Ciska?

[13:44] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): Did Russeau know about Capitain Cook being killed and eaten by savages on a remote island?

[13:44] CB Axel: Yes. I want to hear what Rousseau, and Marx, and all those guys have to say.

[13:44] Alterglobalization: yeah thinking is very tough

[13:44] Alterglobalization: and oppressing

[13:44] Ciska Riverstone: (I meant alter)

[13:44] Alterglobalization: it's not something that makes you relaxed

[13:45] herman Bergson: I see....yes indeed

[13:45] Alterglobalization: the seeking of the truth can be very tortuous

[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: that's the whole point -  I wonder if socrates did not mean "know yourself" in the sense of understand your own negative sides as much as your positives - because then u understand other people and then you can act authenitcally ,)

[13:46] herman Bergson: This would lead to a long long discussion Alter.....:-)

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I know what i am now at least

[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: heheh thats good bejiita

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hapy on

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): happy on

[13:46] Alterglobalization: so you think socrates was a psychologist

[13:46] Alterglobalization: ?

[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: hehheh

[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: no

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): IM HAPY!

[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: he was human

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): HAPPY!

[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): about all these philosophers, I have one thing to say

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): happy off

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:47] herman Bergson: Which is JOhn?

[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): that there is a big difference between the first and the last ones

[13:47] herman Bergson: Switch Happy on, Bejiita ^_^

[13:48] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): because the latest and last ones had already read, learned and assimilated what the first ones said

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:48] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and this reminds me of a friend of mine who ridiculized those who claimed to be philosophers today

[13:48] herman Bergson: true....we are standing on the shoulders who came before us....that is history

[13:49] herman Bergson: then you can ridulize every scientist

[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): because he said: they're stupid. Everything that was possible to conceive and think, has already been thought of.

[13:49] herman Bergson: ridiculize

[13:49] Alterglobalization: yeah

[13:49] herman Bergson: Einstein stole everything from Archimedes and Newton and added some to it

[13:49] Alterglobalization: i agree with your friend john

[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): scientists are different, I think

[13:50] Alterglobalization: nowadays we just philosophy on what philosophers philosophied

[13:50] Alterglobalization: but that's not really philosophy

[13:50] Alterglobalization: that's more history of the philosophy

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ik denk wel eens ..zal ik eens wat denken..en dan denk ik..alles is al gedacht :)

[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: hahah that sounds like fun beertje

[13:50] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and religion too. I was on a plane one day and wondered how comes that nobody has ever conceived a phylosophical or religious principle that applies to jet flights

[13:50] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is offline.

[13:50] Ewa Aska is online.

[13:51] herman Bergson: Well this would mean that there are no new  and original insights possible anymore....

[13:51] CB Axel: I think all that we are learning about brain function helps us to go farther than earlier philosophers.

[13:51] herman Bergson: which as such is quite an original point of view :-))

[13:51] Ciska Riverstone: but its old herman

[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): something like "you shalt not fly over 9000 metres" or "you shalt not commit adultery in a plane toilet"

[13:51] Ciska Riverstone: one of buddhas thesis so to speak

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: well  whats that john?

[13:52] herman Bergson: Well..in SL it is 4098 meters Ciska :-)

[13:52] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): yet some of those geniuses should have forecast supersonic flights

[13:52] CB Axel: I think the original Thou shalt not commit adultery already covers plane toilets.

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well when i fly Im usually around 13000m

[13:52] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): shouldn't they?

[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: true cb

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least rl

[13:53] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): 13k meters???

[13:53] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): are you an astronaut?

[13:54] herman Bergson: Well...then let me close our discussion with thanking you for your participation again.....

[13:54] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): ah ok, sorry, it's perfectly possible

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): naaa thats even higher

[13:54] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: thanx herman

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): happy loliday all

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): holiday

[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...^_^

[13:54] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): hops, I have hijacked poor Herman's phylosophical ship again

[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: happy on

[13:54] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): hope he'll forgive me

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): see you in Maastricht Herman :)

[13:54] herman Bergson: And indeed happy holidays to you all

[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: really cute cb

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): keep happy and have a great christmas

[13:55] CB Axel: I hope you all have a happy Christmas, and I'll see you in the new year.

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): happy

[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: merry christmas  cb

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): happy

[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: merry christmastime everyone

690: Our philosophical theme in my Newspaper...

My newspaper presented me with an interesting article, which made me think of my personal philosophical stand and how I see myself today.

   

BEGIN QUOTE - For many, for millennia man has been the crown on creation. 

   

Whether that creation was called the outcome of a blind genetic evolution process, or a creative design of an almighty maker, 

   

or something in between, did not have a negative influence on the status of man. 

  

But this once undisputed human privilege is increasingly being put into a new perspective. 

     

Man is a being who distinguishes himself from other animals by .... yes, by what actually? 

  

By language? Culture? Rationality or intelligence? Scientific research into language, culture, social and problem solving behavior 

   

and the use of technology among animals increasingly indicates that the difference between human and non-human animals is rather gradual than fundamental. 

    

And not only non-human animals gnaw at the chair legs of the human self- and worldview. It is at the same time overgrown with plant and artificial intelligence. 

   

Intelligence is no longer reserved for man. Man, it seems, can no longer close his eyes for this insight. 

  

But what does it mean? What we see is that we increasingly recognize a kind of inwardness among non-human beings. 

   

The world around us also possesses capacity to act and forms of reflection and intelligence. 

  

That is a farewell to the idea that only man is an animated being, which was valid for centuries in our Greek-European culture. 

   

We were very attached to the image of the animal as a machine, a legacy of Descartes. 

   

In biology, animal behavior must always have a function, and within behaviorism it is not even more than a matter of stimulus and response. 

   

At the same time, it is precisely those things which are definitely machines, like computers and robots, 

  

which by machine learning appear to become independent and eventually perhaps even self-aware. The dream or nightmare of many. -END QUOTE

   

It is interesting to notice, how this text relates to all those themes we have discussed here. It is in my newspaper today!

   

We become more and more aware of the fact, that having a self or self-awareness can no longer be regarded as a unique feature of homo sapiens.

   

Maybe defining our Self based on introspection, first-person-authority or interpretation or self-regulation is too narrow.

    

Suppose we accept the thought, that everything has an absolute drive to persist. In that way  also plants and animals have a kind of inwardness.

   

This is only a few steps away from the philosophical ideas of Spinoza (1632 - 1677) we discussed in a previous project.

   

Thank you for your attention again….^_^

 The Discussion

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): which newspaper?

[13:28] herman Bergson: Trouw

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok, thank you

[13:28] herman Bergson: National newspaper

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes:)

[13:29] herman Bergson: hmmm..no thanksgiving here....:-)

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well we will see where we go from this idea then

[13:29] herman Bergson: pitty :-)

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:29] herman Bergson grins

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:30] herman Bergson: Well what IS interesting is that people begin to realize what eco systems are....

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh

[13:30] herman Bergson: Plants are way smarter than we think for instance

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): correct

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes they warn eachother

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): even atoms

[13:30] herman Bergson: yes Beertje...things like that....

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:31] Peli (peli.dieterle) is online.

[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ( do NOT grow in Beertje's garden )

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha

[13:31] CB Axel: I have a picture I like showing ego vs eco. °͜°

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause she is watering with chlorine or what?

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bad soil:(

[13:32] herman Bergson: Soemone said....if you define wisdome as the insight to control your situation, to adapt so that you can preserve your kind, plants are wiser than man

[13:32] herman Bergson: animals too

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): dissolve some ammonia in water, that gives some nitrogen adittion, however i think olants need other nutrients as well

[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but nitro is important

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha cb

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very true

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:33] Ciska Riverstone: end of hierarchy?

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i guess so

[13:33] CB Axel: Yes, Herman, but I can outrun the plants. °͜°

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): can you outrun a triffid? if you know what that is

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however triffids are not real

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): basically walking carnivorous angle trumpets or orcidea

[13:34] CB Axel: When I come across a triffid, we'll find out. LOL

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): looks nice outside

[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): (in science fiction) one of a race of predatory plants that are capable of growing to a gigantic size and are possessed of locomotor ability and a poisonous sting.

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:35] herman Bergson whispers: sorry CB cant use it because it is NO COPY/NO MOD

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we all got ione

[13:36] CB Axel: I'll send you a copy one. I did send it to everyone here

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): herman

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:36] herman Bergson: I see :-)

[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i have one already Herman

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i saw the movie day of the triffids recently

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one of the comments i read was " you know you have messed enough with nature when you are being chased by shrubbery"

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well animals chase us now

[13:37] CB Axel: LOL, Bejiita.

[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): mosquitoes do

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes they chase me always when i try play golf and disturb be

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): me

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): will be interesting to see how the whole thing progresses

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): itching like hell

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true

[13:38] Guestboook van tipjar stand: Gemma Cleanslate donated L$50. Thank you very much, it is much appreciated!

[13:39] herman Bergson: I am sorry....got some lag...

[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): do animals have a self as well?

[13:39] herman Bergson: maybe caused by my snow outside ^_^

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think they do but dont know it

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we know it

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): self aware they certainley are in some way

[13:39] herman Bergson: Some animals definitely have self awareness Beertje

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cats and dogs definitley are

[13:40] herman Bergson: But in our cause we add TIME to our Self....

[13:40] herman Bergson: animals have memories, but I wonder if they have them in an historical perspective...

[13:40] CB Axel: I'm not sure about cats. They sure get confused by mirrors. °͜°

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and lasers

[13:40] herman Bergson: like we see our Self in relation to time

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and tv

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but my cat would watch other animals on tv

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but dogs like lasers as well, at least many i have met love chasing a laser spot around

[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): my parrot remembers the faces and voices from people who had them before I had him

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what is called the workout the anomals from the couch method

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): animals

[13:42] herman Bergson: yes..but I guess the parrot does not know how long ago it was that it saw that face or person

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): did everyone get to read the atlantic article on second life?

[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no I guess not, but he remembers things from 25 years ago

[13:42] Ladyy Haven (ladyy.haven) is offline.

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): laser in one hand, beer in the other and the dog and cat chasing sound like crazy while you relax

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): around

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hahaha Bejiita

[13:43] Ciska Riverstone: the parrot may not - the elephant does

[13:43] Ladyy Haven (ladyy.haven) is online.

[13:43] CB Axel: Sounds like a great workout to me, Bejiita. LOL

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): specialy for you Bejiita

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they get slim, and you get chubby

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hihi did you see the Atlantic article??

[13:43] herman Bergson: the elephant has a certain level of self awareness too Ciska

[13:43] CB Axel: But do elephants know how long it has been since they saw someone?

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): memory like an elephant is a term, if that is true or a myth i dont know

[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah cb that i dont know

[13:44] herman Bergson: They don’t have wristwatches that large CB

[13:44] CB Axel: Or do they just know they remember that they remember?

[13:44] CB Axel: LOL, Herman.

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): THAT wristwatsh id like to see

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): !

[13:44] CB Axel: Don't be silly. Elephants just look at their phones.

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (imagines pokemon hunting elephant)

[13:45] herman Bergson: Interesting issue....awareness of time in a chronological sense.....

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:45] Ciska Riverstone: ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxX3E5asZA4 )

[13:45] herman Bergson: maybe that is what makes us different from other animals :-)

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): on the list anyway

[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): time is an invent of human

[13:46] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje....we make history.....

[13:46] herman Bergson: we record our past too

[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: well this will be interessting for following generations

[13:47] herman Bergson: maybe an interesting subject......the philosophy of Time :-))

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes

[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)

[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: I guess there will be a different view of history now... that we have history in form of blogs and data

[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a difficult one :)

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: of so many people

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: history will not be written of only winners any longer

[13:48] herman Bergson: yes indeed Ciska....

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: the losers will write it too

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: ;)

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): keeping it will be easy tho with computer and cloud

[13:48] CB Axel: That will be nice, Ciska.

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sorting that is the issue

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: yes - more wholesome

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: yes gemma

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: and all this amount of data....

[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: incredible

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:49] herman Bergson: Yes....what that will bring us....?

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when my database server is programmed and ready well maybe can keep it there

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i think it a bit too small for that though

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): data base servers will be out of date by that time

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh oh

[13:50] CB Axel: Maybe in the future, with very powerful computers, someone will be able to sort through all the data and make sense of our current society.

[13:50] CB Axel: I sure can't make sense of it now.

[13:50] herman Bergson: what will be next Beertje?

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh no

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i don't know, I can't see the future

[13:50] CB Axel: It'll take quantum computers.

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): woke to a discussion on BBC about ayn rand having us live her philosophy in uSA at this time

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): terrible alarm clock

[13:51] herman Bergson: oh dear....so true

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well trump is basically partially that already

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and perhaps elsewhere too as we go along

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ayn rand would be really bad though, a land of greed

[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): destroying our planet

[13:53] herman Bergson: The rich elite controls the US now and has made it vansish from the international political stage

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so many look at their selves as products of rand

[13:53] Second Life: нαяℓєу qυιии (FannyZeta) is now known as Oɴᴏʀɪɴᴀ.

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): followers

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but look at Germany and the problems merkel is having right now with the same people

[13:54] herman Bergson: Europe talks with China now....

[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): all scary

[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): china is rising

[13:55] herman Bergson: We're a bit off topic now....:-)

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): you all for the nice party!!!! was really good .. i almost missed my rezz day totally

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats how it should be

[13:55] herman Bergson: So maybe good to end our discussion here :-)

[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: thank you   herman

[13:55] CB Axel: Us? Off topic? Never! LOL

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): next Tuesday then

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting as always

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:55] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for your participation...

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah cb but he does not type in caps as he used to in the old days

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman

[13:55] herman Bergson: Class dismissed......^_^

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): off topic WAS TERRIBLE

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu thursday then

[13:56] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): NO THURSDAY

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol Gemma

[13:56] CB Axel: See you all next week.

[13:56] herman Bergson: NO THURSDAY!

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:56] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty Herman & Class:-) and cheers! gemma

[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: take care everyone

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥