728: Origins of Modern Racism....

About 2.5 million years ago the homo habilis showed the intelligence and skill to use tools 

   

and 600.000 to 300.000 years ago the homo heidelbergensis discovered the use of fire and spears,

  

the first obvious proof for an active (big game) hunt. Homo heidelbergensis already had intellectual and cognitive skills 

   

like anticipatory planning, thinking and acting that so far have only been attributed to modern man  

   

Behavioral modernity, involving the development of language, figurative art and early forms of religion (etc.) is taken to have arisen before 40,000 years ago,

July 25, 1978, exactly 40 years ago the first IVF baby of the world was born in the United Kingdom. So much for the evolution of mankind. 

    

A few weeks ago there was a hearing with members of parliament and scientists, the latter who pleaded for more room for embryo breeding.

   

One of the wishes was allowance of experimenting with genetic engineering on cultured embryos.

   

This by means of the CRISPR-CAS9 methode, with which it is possible to remove some "sick" DNA and replace it with healthy DNA.

   

The article in my newspaper of Monday, June 25 was of course zooming on on the ethical aspects of these wishes of scientists and legislation.

  

I'll not elaborate on that subject now, for what I want to point out firstly is  the acceleration of evolution

    

and more important , second, on whose shoulders we are standing here: a whole group of actual racist scientists of the early 1900s.

    

You could say, that modern racism and the belief in White Supremacy came to full growth in the first decade of the 20th century.

       

There are a number of reasons. Firstly there is the acceptance of Darwinian evolution. The fittest survives

  

and of course the white Europeans and Americans saw in themselves the proof, motivated by the terrific science they had developed.

  

A second reason was Hugo de Vries, who had rediscovered the heredity laws of Mendel and introduced the concept of genes. I mentioned him already  in a previous lecture.

  

The discovery, that human traits were hereditary, was of course just on step away for the belief in races.

   

The next step was the Eugenic Movement, which was actually founded by a half-cousin of Charles Darwin, Francis Galton (1822-1911) .

     

However, the idea is not new. Plato (348 BC+) was already advising eugenics. He believed human reproduction should be monitored and controlled by the state. 

  

However, Plato understood this form of government control would not be readily accepted, and proposed the truth be concealed from the public via a fixed lottery. 

   

Mates, in Plato's Republic, would be chosen by a "marriage number" in which the quality of the individual would be quantitatively analyzed, 

  

and persons of high numbers would be allowed to procreate with other persons of high numbers. 

  

In theory, this would lead to predictable results and the improvement of the human race. 

  

Sir Francis Galton systematized these ideas and practices according to new knowledge about the evolution of man and animals provided by the theory of his half-cousin Charles Darwin.

   

And thus our present day racism is derived from that  pseudo-scientific justification, which showed its true face in Nazi-Germany.

   

We have to live with it and it has not disappeared. White Supremacy is still a serious topic in some countries.

Thank you for your attention again...

The Discussion

[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Indeed Trump

[13:25] herman Bergson: And...LAcy....Trump is a perfect example of White Supremacy thinking indeed

[13:25] CB Axel: Even though there is nothing supreme about him but his ego.

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): white supremacy, greed and thinking he can do anything with women as well

[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it as large as his feet:)

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that kind of type

[13:26] herman Bergson: There is nothing supreme about any of us, CB..we are just human beings....

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all the same

[13:26] CB Axel: True. Just try telling Trump and his kind that.

[13:26] herman Bergson: two legs two arms and a head with a brain init...an dthat brain is the problem :-)

[13:27] Hope (naskiff): Should we expect Trump to be human too, or super human just because he's president?

[13:27] CB Axel: I've seen the insides of enough people to know that under our skin we're all pretty much the same.

[13:27] CB Axel: He thought he was super human before idiots elected him president.

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump is not human, he is a monster AND a bloddy idiot

[13:27] Hope (naskiff): How do you know he thought that?

[13:28] herman Bergson: To be president of the US is no big deal at all...any idiot can become it...Trump is the proof...you only need money

[13:28] CB Axel: From everything he said and did before he ran.

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seems so sadly

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): money = respect no matter how big an asshole you are

[13:28] CB Axel: I've hated him since at least the 80's, so, you know, before it was cool.

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a BIG problem

[13:28] herman Bergson: Trump has a serious inferiority complex....

[13:29] herman Bergson: that is why he always yells that he is so smart

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true for sure

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and why he calls everyone else for having Low IQ

[13:29] herman Bergson: any smart person is justt smart and keeps his mouth shut :-)

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wneh its him who have low IQ

[13:29] CB Axel: I believe that, Herman. He covers it up with bravado.

[13:30] herman Bergson: Yes CB....did you see him on that convention....

[13:30] herman Bergson: HE was bragging about the ELITE...

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, screams and rants, as i said before i had hoped first time i saw him and heard his rant that someone would lock him up in an asylum

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that was 1 year before the electin

[13:30] herman Bergson: The man said....THE ELITE...I have a more beautiful apartment...

[13:30] Hope (naskiff): But nobody knows these things...?   You make assumptions because you disagree with him, and you treat it as facts about his IQ and his ego.

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but no he ended up in the white house instead!

[13:31] CB Axel: His ego is out there for all to see.

[13:31] herman Bergson: I guess you respond to Bejiita , Hope?

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well for on thing i hate braggers, thinking they are better then anyone else and constantly ranting about it, plus he lies a lot

[13:31] Hope (naskiff): Isn't there more to learn if you assume that somehow he's not that dumb?  It would be pretty interesting to ponder about why there are such big differences in opinion if it's not due to idiocy.  It's too simple.

[13:32] herman Bergson: Trump isn't dumb at all..on the contrary....

[13:32] herman Bergson: But what he is doing is destroying his country....

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, just made 100s of children forever orphans

[13:33] CB Axel: Perhaps he's intelligent, but he is so deficient in every other characteristic that I admire that any intellect he has is insignificant.

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 1000s

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(

[13:33] herman Bergson: At the moment Chana has already moved in as worldleader number one!

[13:33] herman Bergson: China

[13:33] CB Axel: He is human trash, a waste of space, and poor use of oxygen.

[13:33] Hope (naskiff): I wonder if most people who live in China care about that...  :/

[13:34] herman Bergson: The US has become a totally unreliable ally for anyone....

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehehe agree CB, lets bury him under a landfill 100s of miles from nearest civilisation

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:34] herman Bergson: You go to the G7...sign a treaty and then tweet from your Airforce One...I retract my signature

[13:34] Hope (naskiff): Interesting, did he explain why he did that?

[13:35] Lacy (alisa.menna): heheh

[13:35] herman Bergson: Yes....he felt offended for some reason

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause he did not liked someones tweet

[13:35] CB Axel: That would only solve a small bit of the problem, Bejiita. There are many others like him running businesses in this country.

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and got upset and started screaming like a baby in a sandbox again

[13:35] herman Bergson: No..was Trudeau...what he said

[13:35] Hope (naskiff): Trudeau isn't just "someone"...

[13:36] herman Bergson: Certainly not...

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): name seems at least familiar

[13:36] Hope (naskiff): Lol.

[13:36] herman Bergson: But to get back to our main point of today....

[13:36] Hope (naskiff): Justin Trudeau is Canada's prime minister.

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:36] herman Bergson: Yes he is :-)

[13:37] herman Bergson: we inherited modern racism form the early years of the 20th century...

[13:37] herman Bergson: the belief that there are races....

[13:37] Lacy (alisa.menna): i apologize for "slight" misdirection

[13:37] herman Bergson: ABSOLUTE NONSENSE...

[13:37] Lacy (alisa.menna): *the..

[13:38] herman Bergson: there do not exist pure races anymore on this planet...

[13:38] herman Bergson: two or three lectures ago Ciska gave us a URL of Youtube...

[13:39] herman Bergson: you should have watched that

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was a good one

[13:40] herman Bergson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyaEQEmt5ls

[13:40] herman Bergson: watch this...

[13:40] herman Bergson: and be healed :-))

[13:40] CB Axel: It's pretty funny when white supremacists have their DNA tested and find out they have African genes. °͜°

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we all are from there so

[13:41] herman Bergson: there was an englishman who hated Germans....He had German ancestory, CB :-)

[13:41] CB Axel: Right, Bejiita. °͜°

[13:42] CB Axel: What if all the DNA testing people are getting done just starts to change the face of racism?

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however the comments laim its all fake, that the people are only acting

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that the video is staged

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but not sure bout that

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just watched it and the message i agree is true

[13:42] herman Bergson: ahh...is it FAKE NEWS, Bejiita?

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully its not

[13:43] herman Bergson: I think it is improbable....

[13:43] CB Axel: What if someone has their's tested and find out that they have DNA from every country except, and I'll pick on Bejiita here, Sweden?

[13:43] CB Axel: Will that person begin to discriminate against Swedes?

[13:43] herman Bergson: for our DNA contains so much  information...

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you mean if i would do a dna test and not have any Swedish dna in me?

[13:43] herman Bergson: Well then Bejiita has a problem :-))

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well im just me anyway

[13:44] CB Axel whispers: You'd sure have a lot of questions for your parents. LOL

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:44] herman Bergson: Sweden doesnt exist at all..Bejiita invented it..:-)))

[13:44] CB Axel: LOL

[13:44] CB Axel: All these countries are invented.

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true

[13:45] herman Bergson: Yes...there is only Second Life...:-)

[13:45] Hope (naskiff): There's some irony here... ^^  If someone straight from Africa moves to another country like Sweden and they have no swedish DNA, is that a problem too?

[13:45] Hope (naskiff): Unless I'm missing something

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): don't laugh. ..i'm part Begian

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Belgian

[13:46] herman Bergson: Why would be having any kind of DNA a problem between human beings, Hope?

[13:46] CB Axel: No. Why would it. Unless the Swedes decide to start discriminating against anyone with Swedish heritage.

[13:46] Lacy (alisa.menna) whispers: i'm part Beagle Hound

[13:47] Hope (naskiff): I don't know, I can't think of a reason...  I just thought it was amusing that the possibility of a Swede having no Swedish DNA would be strange.  I was just nitpicking maybe.

[13:47] CB Axel: But DNA testing could start people looking into themselves and deciding that their combination of genes is the best and all others need to get out of their way.

[13:47] Lacy (alisa.menna): Eventually, everyone will be one colour.

[13:48] CB Axel: There could very possibly be people in Sweden without any Swedish blood.

[13:48] Hope (naskiff): And all the same.

[13:48] CB Axel: I agree, Lacy.

[13:48] herman Bergson: Well...CB...that is what I was talking about....the fact that we can "repai" DNA.....

[13:48] CB Axel: I hope so, anyway.

[13:48] herman Bergson: Creepy thing

[13:48] Lacy (alisa.menna): and we'll all get along better.

[13:49] Hope (naskiff): It will be a sad day for those who like Asian women...  or black guys...  or big butts or freckles.

[13:49] Hope (naskiff): It will be great for everybody else.

[13:50] herman Bergson: What do I hear here...white supremacy?

[13:50] CB Axel: There is at least one scientist I've heard about who is worried that CRISPR might cause problems in DNA while repairing the part it fixes. He/she thinks it can make the altered DNA more vulnerable to cancer.

[13:50] herman Bergson: Which skin color should we pick...???

[13:50] herman Bergson: I suggest GREEN for everyone...

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaa

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or Blue

[13:50] Hope (naskiff): That's the thing, why do we need to pick *one* colour?  :P

[13:50] herman Bergson: No debate about race anymore...

[13:50] Hope (naskiff): What's wrong with diversity?

[13:51] herman Bergson: we are all frogs

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well if you could in some simple way in demand change skin color id surely want to see how id look black

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): prefer white

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): id think id look kind of cool

[13:51] Lacy (alisa.menna): i want to be mystery flavoured.

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:51] herman Bergson: The movie AVATAR....Blue is the color ! :-))

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): those looks really nice too

[13:52] CB Axel: I saw a picture of what at least one person thought we'd look like in the future. One race made from the merging of all. There would still be diversity, but the basic model would be the same.

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:52] herman Bergson: As I said...it is Second Life

[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if you mix every color you get white

[13:53] Lacy (alisa.menna): aww

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): try it

[13:53] CB Axel: We would all be a pretty caramel color, according to the picture I saw. I thought the person looked very attractive. °͜°

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's true

[13:53] Hope (naskiff): So it will be like cane sugar to one extreme and stevia sugar to the other extreme, and sugar in everything...  no other spices allowed.

[13:53] herman Bergson: no...you get black

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): only in the RGB scheme

[13:53] Lacy (alisa.menna): Black Trumps all other colours

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and with CMYK you get black if u mix them all

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): rainbow spectrum give white though

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes:)

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but non of these colors are in our skin

[13:54] herman Bergson: you confuse additive and subtractive light, Beertje

[13:54] herman Bergson: in paint you get black in light you get white indeed

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i'm confused about everything now

[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I paint a bit

[13:55] Hope (naskiff): So ...is...  anyone interested in pondering what's wrong with the skin diversity that we have now?  *tentatively raises her hand* ...no?  ...ok *lowers it...*

[13:55] herman Bergson: yes..but never mix all colors to get white :-))

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i do a lot of 3d graphics for my games so have a good check on things like this

[13:55] herman Bergson: what skin diversity Hope?

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to get the proper colors on things no matter if its paint on a house or a person

[13:56] CB Axel: I don't think there's anything wrong with skin diversity. I just think that as people of different colors get together and have babies, we'll all eventually become one color.

[13:56] Hope (naskiff): It ranges from very light beige to very dark brown.  Compared to everyone being more or less medium brown...

[13:56] CB Axel: Which is what the person who made the picture I mentioned was thinking.

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): doens't it depend on how much sunlight you get?

[13:57] Hope (naskiff): No, black are born that way

[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): in the north people are mostly white

[13:57] herman Bergson: YEs CB...at the end we all would become a kind og=f light brownish color

[13:57] CB Axel: And it's not that we're trying to become one color. It's just what's happening as people from different races reproduce together.

[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there are no races ...

[13:57] CB Axel: Even black people tan.

[13:57] Hope (naskiff): Okay. So it seems inevitable...  will it be a good thing, bad thing, or just meh?

[13:57] CB Axel: It will just be.

[13:57] Hope (naskiff): So, no loss then.

[13:58] CB Axel: Nope.

[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i guess we can soon change the color genetically, as said id thought a while how i would look black

[13:58] CB Axel: And, like I said, I thought it looked pretty. °͜°

[13:58] herman Bergson: what is good or bad about a skin color...NOTHING....it is a cultural bias, prejudice that does it

[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): id look great like that i think

[13:58] Hope (naskiff): So those who like the xtremes or freckles, they'll either die out anyway or suck it up and adapt...

[13:59] CB Axel: I think there will still be freckles.

[13:59] Lacy (alisa.menna): That's a lot of tattoo ink.

[13:59] CB Axel: Some black people have freckles.

[13:59] CB Axel: I have a black coworker with freckles.

[13:59] Lacy (alisa.menna): Do they have red hair too ?

[13:59] herman Bergson: That black actor...Freeman..? HWE has freckles too

[13:59] Hope (naskiff): Skin colour does have an impact, it's visual, it's part of beauty, and it's different.  One doesn't have to be better than another, but preferences are awesome and so are differences.  That's why there are more ice cream flavours than vanilla.

[13:59] CB Axel: He has some reddish highlights.

[14:00] Lacy (alisa.menna): Cool

[14:00] CB Axel nods

[14:00] herman Bergson: Well...my friends...

[14:00] herman Bergson: Guess we saved the world another time again...

[14:00] Lacy (alisa.menna): If we all looked the same, there would be no beautiful or ugly.

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[14:01] herman Bergson: May I thank you all for your participation....:-)

[14:01] CB Axel: Only one more lecture before the summer hols. :(

[14:01] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....^_^

[14:01] Hope (naskiff): It was fun and I hope I'm not hated too much. :P

[14:01] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I might be out dance battling on Thursday, will see, a festival beginning

[14:01] CB Axel: I enjoyed the discussion, Hope.

[14:01] herman Bergson: You are totally loved here , Hope...

[14:01] Hope (naskiff): Cheers. :)

[14:01] Lacy (alisa.menna): She is ?

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): maybe, ill gonna go down and see if my buddies are there

[14:01] Lacy (alisa.menna) giggles

[14:02] herman Bergson: What should we do when there is no hope????

[14:02] CB Axel: LOL

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): create hope

[14:02] Hope (naskiff): I like that!

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[14:02] herman Bergson: Good one Bejiita!

[14:02] Lacy (alisa.menna): watch episode four ?

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im gonna create a lot of hope at that event

[14:02] CB Axel: See you Thursday. Bye.

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): do my best

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now

[14:02] Hope (naskiff): Good bye. :)

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice as usual

[14:03] herman Bergson: Yes..Thursday may be a revelation...on Trump :-)

[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[14:03] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)

[14:03] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): can't wait

.

727: Let's be Pragmatic....

In the period 1900 - 1915 the philosophical landscape took shape. There was the old difference between rationalism and empiricism on the Continent.

    

On the rationalist bench are sitting philosophers like Edmund Husserl and Henri Bergson and on the empiricist bench we see 

  

Bertrand Russel and Ludwig Wittgenstein and later the Vienna Circle (Wiener Kreis).

   

In the United States appears a third party in the philosophical discourse: Pragmatism. Understandable in a land where so many had left behind or even fled Continental traditions.

    

In 1907 William James (1842 - 1910) delivered a series of lectures with the title: Pragmatism. A new way for some old ways of thinking.

    

James wanted to get rid of all those Continental idealist philosophical dogmas and theories 

   

and submit philosophy to the same empirical demands as the natural sciences.

    

He related the dichotomy in philosophy to personal temperaments. On the one hand you have the "softy"

  

Such a person is a rationalist,  reasons from principles, is optimistic, religious and dogmatic.

   

On the other hand you have the "realist". He is empirical, reasons from sensory experience, is non-religious, materialistic and skeptical.

   

On the one hand you have philosophers who start the debate with absolute assumptions, for instance absolute freedom of the will,

   

and from such assumptions they then deduce what one should think or do.

  

On the other hand you have philosophers who take the world as it is, with all its chaos,  inequality and injustice.

   

Empirical science is for us a rather common thing. Everything is subjected to scientific research these days. 

Many people refuse to accept  big theories about our world without scientific proof. A rather general attitude, at least among educated people.

   

James emphasized this dichotomy in philosophy, because he wanted to show that the world was changing, as he said:

   

"Never before there have been so many people with an empiricist attitude as in these days. You almost could say that our children are born as little scientists."

    

A pragmatist is not interested in the traditional metaphysical theories with their verbal solutions and big words like "The Absolute" or "The Truth".

    

You can occupy yourself with such issues, but James then asks the question: What does it bring you?"

   

Everything that has a real effect  or influence on the way we life, should be qualified as "Truth", according to James.

   

Truth isn't absolute. Things are true as long as they work in a positive sense in our life. How things work out in real life, proofs whether it is true or not.

   

The  pragmatist way of thinking of William James illustrates in a nice way, how people felt at the beginning of the 20th century.

   

So many new things were developing in natural sciences, in the industry. Most exciting in those days, for instance, was mass production of cars,

    

the most common thing in our days. Einstein published his first articles in those years and today we not even blink, when we discuss quantum mechanics, but it all started only a hundred years ago.

Thank you for your attention again....:-)

The Discussion

[13:18] CB Axel: I still blink at quantum mechanics. °͜°

[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha

[13:18] herman Bergson: Feel free to drop a question of remark :-)

[13:18] Ciska Riverstone: me too cb hehehe

[13:18] Ciska Riverstone: thanx herman

[13:19] herman Bergson: A mystery to me too CB :-))

[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): norton has a question i think

[13:19] herman Bergson: But it is interesting to see how excited people were in those days about all new discoveries

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but you can build working computers with it

[13:20] herman Bergson: He said so, yes

[13:20] Norton Lykin: oh, yes, had the answer during the lecture

[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): eve if its way new stuff it actually works

[13:20] herman Bergson: Around 1900 a whole new world enfolded for scientists

[13:21] herman Bergson: They discovered the atom....

[13:21] Ciska Riverstone: well they have been excited with the internet too for a while ;)

[13:21] Ciska Riverstone: they still are

[13:21] Ciska Riverstone: but the "news" wore off

[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes you could compare it with how we experience the Internet Ciska....

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and now we just take it for granted

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like electricity and running water

[13:22] herman Bergson: Well...the access to so much knowledge worldwide....it still is amazing

[13:22] Ciska Riverstone: yes  and we use it negatively too - just as science

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sadly yes

[13:22] Norton Lykin: Philosophy is kind of a model or viewpoint to understand the world we are in ?

[13:23] herman Bergson: You could say that Norton, yes

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:24] herman Bergson: For William James philosophy was a part of life...

[13:24] herman Bergson: Everybody has some theory about the world he lives in

[13:24] Norton Lykin: Like for a Buddhist ?

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): lots of pragmatism around these days

[13:24] herman Bergson: I agree Gemma....

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks we could not live without it in usa

[13:25] herman Bergson: The times for big metaphysical theories seem to be over

[13:25] Ciska Riverstone: well buddhism is a very empiric philosophy too

[13:25] Norton Lykin: how do you mean, empiric ?

[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes indeed...but the starting point, that life is suffering ....not too attractive :-)

[13:26] Ciska Riverstone: well u are asked to experience things rather then believe it - thats empiric

[13:27] herman Bergson: But the interesting point in that is, Ciska, that we all yet start with beliefs

[13:27] Ciska Riverstone: its the basis of empiric so to speak

[13:27] herman Bergson: Or a better word might be ...'assumptions'

[13:27] Ciska Riverstone: well to put it simple - what you do not know (yet) you have to believe

[13:27] herman Bergson: One classic assumption is the existence of a reality independent of our consciousness

[13:27] Ciska Riverstone: either by believing in some sort of outer source or belief in a scientist until you understand it yourself

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:28] herman Bergson: Welll indeed...we have to believe for instance Einstein :-))

[13:29] Norton Lykin: So in essence it is a question whether it works out in the present time or not ?

[13:29] Ciska Riverstone: yes or we learn and try to understand

[13:29] Ciska Riverstone: heheh

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): even tho he made error

[13:29] Ciska Riverstone: then we know

[13:29] herman Bergson: Good luck Ciska :-))

[13:29] Ciska Riverstone: thanx

[13:29] herman Bergson: He did indeed Gemma....

[13:29] herman Bergson: So, that is science...always questioning your beliefs

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): always try to find the most logical and observable explanation

[13:30] Ciska Riverstone: well in science we believe a theory until its replaced with an even better one...

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): to get proof that this is reality the case

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that science

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): finding out how things really are

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true

[13:31] herman Bergson: In a sense we are pretty pragmatic these days.....

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:31] herman Bergson: If it works it is true...:-)

[13:31] Ciska Riverstone: totally.

[13:31] Norton Lykin: or it is true if it works ?

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): chickens and eggs

[13:31] Norton Lykin: ^^

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:32] herman Bergson: No....

[13:32] herman Bergson: because that would imply that something already has the property of being true before we have tried it

[13:32] herman Bergson: James defined true as 'it works'

[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): is that always the case?

[13:34] herman Bergson: it is true IF it works makes Truth some metaphysical attribute of something

[13:34] herman Bergson: ti is a very pragmatic approach Beertje....

[13:35] herman Bergson: that something works doesn't mean it will work forever....so truth is not an absolute property

[13:35] herman Bergson: for instance in 1907 or so someone invented Bakelite...

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): :-)

[13:35] herman Bergson: Bakelite...

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bakelite you mean?

[13:36] herman Bergson: Perfekt for isolation of electric equipment....

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah ok

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): worlds first plastic

[13:36] herman Bergson: we don't use it anymore....

[13:36] herman Bergson: it is all plastics now....

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause there are better alternatives but i think it is in use still for some applications

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bakelite can for ex only be  made in dark colors

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but very durable

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still used in high voltage insulators

[13:37] herman Bergson: maybe it is still applied indeed Bejiita...I dint know

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the knobs for litter bins we make at work

[13:38] herman Bergson: ahh

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they are black so that works

[13:38] herman Bergson: so it still 'works' for some situations

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however its a setting pastic, so cant be remelted

[13:39] herman Bergson: Must have been exciting years ..around 1905

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): must have been

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and each year after

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess

[13:40] herman Bergson: in 1907 we got the mass production of the T-Ford...!

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): amazing stuff

[13:40] herman Bergson: They built 15 million of those cars...

[13:40] herman Bergson: til 1927

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): first line building

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the first production line

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes

[13:41] herman Bergson: If you never have seen something like that it must have been sensational

[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a carriage without a horse!

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and that affecting  many other building

[13:41] Ciska Riverstone: poor horses lost their jobs and no one cared

[13:41] herman Bergson: it changed the world....

[13:41] Norton Lykin: ^^

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako) whispers: terrified most people though, a noisy fire spitting self moving beast!

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i bet they were happy

[13:42] Ciska Riverstone: well I guess most of them were eaten :/

[13:42] Norton Lykin: yep

[13:42] Ciska Riverstone: not sure if that made them very happy

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh gosh

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but people got used to these machines and then it really took off

[13:42] herman Bergson: ti caused the world we now live in with all its roads and so on

[13:42] CB Axel: Not only did the horses lose their jobs, but people got stuck in boring, repetitive jobs.

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but now robots make all the cars

[13:43] herman Bergson: Ahh yes indeed Bejiita....

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): huge changes in that century

[13:43] CB Axel: But Ford was able to sell many, many more cars at the expense of those boring jobs.

[13:43] CB Axel: At the expense of the people in those boring jobs.

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thank goodness for unions then

[13:43] herman Bergson: True CB....

[13:44] herman Bergson: serious changes du e to all these innovations...

[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there is nothing changed today CB

[13:44] Norton Lykin: how do you mean Beertje ?

[13:44] CB Axel: Except, as Bejiita mentioned, many of those boring, repetitive jobs are now being done by robots.

[13:45] herman Bergson: People lots their jobs due to all these robots in car manufacturing

[13:45] CB Axel: And people have lost those boring, repetitive jobs for even worse ones. °͜°

[13:45] herman Bergson: Like horses lost their jobs :-)

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully they get better less boring ones,

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there are still boring jobs today

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and this will happen again due to robots in every field

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or they all ended up at mcdonalds

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no room bej

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hopefully not

[13:46] CB Axel: A lawyer friend of mine once told me that his job would be taken over by AI before my paramedic job would be taken over by a robot.

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but i would not want to have a work where all i do all days is just put the same screw in over and over day after day

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i want a job where i can do all sort of things

[13:46] herman Bergson: Well...guess we have reached a cheerful view at our future now :-)

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and i have

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and really happy with it

[13:46] CB Axel: And he was right. A lot of lawyering work is now being done by AI.

[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): by who CB?

[13:47] CB Axel: Writing patents, etc. (He's a intellectual property attorney)

[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: because its about looking up stuff and referencing cb?

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): computers

[13:47] herman Bergson: Yes indeed CB

[13:47] CB Axel: Yes, Ciska. That too.

[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: well still finding a new angle must be done by a human - no?

[13:47] herman Bergson: Well...we still have philosophy to keep us busy ^_^

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and thats a good thing

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): never ending

[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*yaaaaaaaay*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*

[13:48] herman Bergson: But I guess it is time to take a rest now :-)

[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is the biggest change in the past century?

[13:48] herman Bergson: So...thank you all again for your participation....

[13:48] CB Axel: Yes. I'm going to head over to a talk with Oz and Grumpity Linden. °͜°

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wow have to think about that beertje

[13:48] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes wil y ou tp jme cb??

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh no i cant go

[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): looks I'm too late with my question :))

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): will get the stream

[13:49] CB Axel: Beertje, that will depend on the person.

[13:49] CB Axel: Bye, all. See you next week. I'll be less busy then. °͜°

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah yes

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa cu

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): you will

[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: take care cb

[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye CB

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now

[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: cu around bejiita

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:49] Ciska Riverstone: welterusten beertje

[13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: it was very interesting again! ty Herman Nad Class :-)

[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i have to run a fishing contest

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): welterusten

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): contest even

[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: #°*** BABA ***°#

[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: thanx herman ㋡

[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Beertje:-)

[13:50] herman Bergson: Be well you all :-)

726: The 20th Century has begun....

Nowadays you can barely imagine how radical the development of modernism was in the early 1900s. 

   

Everyone who now lives has grown up in the scientific world, many people only know life in the city, and rapid change is the only change there is. 

  

Only a minority still lives in close contact with the country or nature. At the beginning of the 20th century, this was all different. 

  

For a lot of people, the big city was still a relatively new experience. Social security systems were not there yet 

   

and the misery and poverty were so massive that the cities had a much more sombre look than today 

   

and the fundamental scientific discoveries that accompanied the new world reinforced the feeling that all old certainties had disappeared.

    

Probably these kinds of feelings were never as strong and widespread as before then. 

   

The decline of religion was but one of the elements of this landslide in the world of experience: 

   

the growth of nationalism, anti-Semitism and racial theories in general, and the enthusiastic embrace of modernism in art were all reactions to the same developments. 

   

The biggest paradox, the most terrifying transformation was this: according to the evolution theory, the natural development process proceeds with the speed of changing ice ages. 

   

According to modernism, everything suddenly changed, and fundamentally, almost overnight. 

  

So most people experienced it as much of a threat as a promise. In the beauty it offered, there was a core of horror.

   

More than ten years ago I already delivered a lecture with the title "Prelude to the 20th century"

The fun is that  I can repeat my words of those days, for what I was talking about was the philosophers who stood on the threshold of 1900.

   

What I then wanted to teach you was this...

   

An issue, which easily would escape our attention but which is important for understanding developments in philosophy, is psychology.      William James reminded me of it, for he was professor of psychology and philosophy.    In 1816 Johann Friedrich Herbart published his "Lehrbuch zur Psychologie"...Text-book on Psychology.     He was a philosopher, even lectured in Köningsberg as a successor of Immanuel Kant.      But psychology, still a part of philosophy then, became gradually an independent science.       James, who lived from 1842 to 1910 was a contemporary of Sigmund Freund, who was only 14 years younger than James.     And today I see with a smile these two philosophers at our door...William James and Henri Bergson.    In fact we do not need to dedicate a lecture to these two, for they already were discussed ten years ago. William James here:  http://www.herman-bergson.nl/P01/Project001.html     and Henri Bergson here: http://www.herman-bergson.nl/P01/Project001.html    The Discussion [13:41] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman. [13:42] CB Axel: And now I need to leave. I'll see you on Thursday. °͜° [13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): suggestion....maybe we can ring the bell if you go too fast, instead after eacht line [13:42] herman Bergson: Be well CB [13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye CB [13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu CB [13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡ [13:42] herman Bergson: Good  suggestion Beertje :-) [13:43] herman Bergson: Maybe even better... [13:43] herman Bergson: Bell means....PAUSE [13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes [13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :) [13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: good Idea Beertje :-) [13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i can imagine that woman and men were afraid of the changes in the ealry 1900 [13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i am distracted by the bell. when i read, i think about the content of the text:-) [13:44] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie....got a point there [13:44] bergfrau Apfelbaum: but the idea to slow Herman down is good :-)) [13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes that was my point too [13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡ [13:44] herman Bergson: So...the bell means...Hold on...give us a minute :-) [13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes [13:45] herman Bergson: very good... [13:45] bergfrau Apfelbaum: or 30 seconds:-) [13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or 15 [13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)) [13:45] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes :-) [13:46] herman Bergson: ok then,., that is settled :-)) [13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i am also afraid of change when I think of Trump [13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sad development indeed he brings [13:48] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie....what this man is destroying.... [13:49] herman Bergson: the whole fabric of international trust [13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: he even brings evil thoughts in my head. against him .. kill and so [13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): imagine that your child is taken from you to live behind bars [13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it gives me shivers [13:49] herman Bergson: Beertje that is beyond debate.... [13:50] herman Bergson: that this happens in a civilized country like the US...unbelievable [13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): agree [13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trump is a monster [13:51] herman Bergson: And they justify it by quoting Paul, Roman 13 [13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the US isn't civilized anymore [13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just who have the most money [13:51] herman Bergson: I agree Beertje.. [13:51] herman Bergson: Indeed Bejiita... [13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Fuck money, be nice i say [13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that is true status [13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least what i connect to it, someone to look up to and like [13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what will happen next to the world? [13:53] herman Bergson: It is becoming a sad story... [13:53] herman Bergson: Yes, my question too Beertje [13:54] herman Bergson: Oh...one thing.... [13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there is another Kennedy to start up campagne [13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): moving backward, not forward [13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe he can save the situation [13:54] herman Bergson: China will not give in in this trade tariffs war.... [13:54] herman Bergson: It will fight to get the US to its knees [13:55] herman Bergson: that is my opinion [13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes a North Korea too [13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Japan too [13:55] herman Bergson: To loose face is an impossibility for a Chinese [13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) is online. [13:56] Ciska Riverstone: next might be that the better educated us folks leave the country... [13:56] herman Bergson: where to Ciska? [13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Europa? [13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Australië? [13:57] Ciska Riverstone: wherever [13:57] Ciska Riverstone: but I expect that to happen any time soon [13:57] Ciska Riverstone: maybe gb [13:57] Quistis Shippe is offline. [13:57] Ciska Riverstone: and maybe they will be happy about it [13:58] Ciska Riverstone: it might be what the brits need right now [13:58] herman Bergson: A brain drain.... [13:58] Ciska Riverstone: highly educated folks [13:58] Ciska Riverstone: to get through their euro crises [13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): without money no one can leave the us [13:58] Ciska Riverstone: its thought to be a scientist in the usa atm [13:59] herman Bergson: Well...an interesting moment in history now... [13:59] Ciska Riverstone: well the question is if  gb sees that potential [13:59] Ciska Riverstone: and does something with it [13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah [13:59] Ciska Riverstone: totally herman [13:59] herman Bergson: Will Trump survive another 12 months??? [13:59] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes and more :(( [13:59] Ciska Riverstone: the problem is [13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (horrible thought) [13:59] herman Bergson: My bet is.....NO [13:59] Ciska Riverstone: the other guy is even worse [13:59] herman Bergson: doesn't matter [13:59] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): which other guy? [14:00] herman Bergson: Pence [14:00] herman Bergson: Vice president... [14:00] Ciska Riverstone: yes - I always put the name out of my consciousness instantly [14:00] Ciska Riverstone: the only good thing about him might be [14:00] Ciska Riverstone: that he is easily controlled [14:00] Ciska Riverstone: the question is only [14:00] Ciska Riverstone: who will control him [14:00] herman Bergson: But don't worry....he is easier to control by the system... [14:00] Ciska Riverstone: (apart from his wife) [14:01] Ciska Riverstone: same thought Herman [14:01] herman Bergson: he isnt such ego centric narcist like Trump [14:01] Ciska Riverstone: no of course not [14:01] herman Bergson: he is closer to a human being [14:01] Ciska Riverstone: he is the co-dependent part [14:01] Ciska Riverstone: but that means that he is easily controlled yes [14:02] Ciska Riverstone: so psychologically an interesting situation if it would not be in the white house [14:02] Ciska Riverstone: with tons of lives on stake [14:02] herman Bergson: yes [14:02] Quistis Shippe is online. [14:02] herman Bergson: So keep your fingers crossed...and I'll dismiss class :-) [14:03] herman Bergson: Thank you all again..:-) [14:03] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :) [14:03] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman