601: The Individual is born...

I thought it might be helpful to put all we have discussed so far in a diagram. 

It recapitulates nicely all we have said about the concept of the individual as it developed in Europe.

Just look at it closely….it is quite a picture….

In fact it is a rather unique picture. Nowhere in the world has developed such a view of man except in Europe.

The ultimate conclusion of this individual  could be, that he is all alone in the universe and has to discover why he exists all by himself.

So let’s turn our attention to Jean-Paul Sartre (1905 -1980). He argues that mankind is abandoned in the world. 

This is not to say mankind has been abandoned in the sense of 'left behind' or 'neglected' by something or someone.

For Sartre there is nothing "out there" that could have abandoned us in this way. Rather, mankind is abandoned because there is no God to give human life purpose or moral direction.

Sartre's adoption of the notion of abandonment is the clearest possible expression of his profound atheism, his view that mankind is a cosmic accident and not the product of some higher design on the part of God or gods.

This conclusion brings us to the quintessence of Sartre's existentialism. As the human being is uncreated the idea or essence of each person does not precede his existence. Thence existence precedes essence.

With this maxim Sartre wants to say that the human being first exists without goal or definition and finds himself in the world. As a reaction on this awareness he defines the meaning of his existence.

This is the very opposite of philosophical idealism which we already find with Plato and Aristoteles. For Sartre it is not ideas, essences or minds that are primary but pure existence in the form of Being-IN-itself.

Being-IN-itself, like a stone just IS, does not depend on anything else for its being, whereas Being-FOR-itself, the basis of consciousness and ideas, arises through the negation of Being-IN-itself.

Sartre places negation at the centre of his ontological theory of consciousness, his theory of Being-FOR-itself. 

In "Being and Nothingness" he argues that the only kind of being that can exist as a relation to reality or the world is a being that is, in itself, nothing, the negation of Being-IN-itself.

This may sound pretty abstract and you may wonder what he means by this. Let me try to explain. We are in the world in two ways. 

On the one hand we are a material object, a body and as such we exist in the same way a stone exists.

Consciousness, however, makes us aware of our Being and is as such the negation of our Being-IN-itself. We become without purpose or design a Being-FOR-itself. Impossible to be in the world like a stone is.

The designer of the meaning of our live are we ourselves. We create ourselves by making choices, groundless choices, but we have to choose for even not choosing is a choice.

Sartre's general claim is that ultimately choice is always and unavoidably based upon arbitrary decisions. 

His view is that if a choice could be guided and influenced in any way by beliefs, convictions or values, it would be a caused phenomenon rather than a genuinely free choice.

In the novels of Sartre we meet the ultimate individual, an unknown concept to many people on this earth. What to think of this situation ???

Thank you for your  attention…the floor is yours…

The Discussion

The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson smiles

[13:21] herman Bergson: not a easy one today I guess :-)

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a bit tricky but i think I get it some

[13:22] herman Bergson: Bsic idea is that you define yourself, design your own existence.....

[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the idea that we have a purpose is our own idea sort of if i get his ideas right

[13:22] herman Bergson: there si no karma or fate or things like that for you...

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): since we are not created for a specific purpose but just happen to be here

[13:23] herman Bergson: Indeed bejiita...you define your own purpose in life

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Me myself decide my interests for ex, part of it might be genetic what you are interested in however

[13:24] herman Bergson: IN a way we are a being -IN - itself...we are just there...

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cause I’ve even since little been very technically interested for x

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ex

[13:24] herman Bergson: But our ocnsciousness tells us THAT we are there....a next step which never happens to a stone...

[13:25] CB Axel: Lucky stone

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:25] Uli Helendale: Does Sartre discuss an existential crisis? Where we come to the understanding that we have no meaning?

[13:25] Areyn Laurasia: seems like such a cold detached sterile existence

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we have a meaning and that is to discover how everything else work, with machines like LHC and spaceships

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes CB..we would LOVE to be just a stone on this earth.....escaping our responsibility to choose

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I mean we have a built in curiosity drive

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the urge to discover

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least most of us have

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): least

[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): including me

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and to experiment

[13:27] herman Bergson: What is an existential crisis Uli?

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why Bejiita?

[13:27] Uli Helendale: The point at which we face the notion that there is nothing, no god or other force who can provide us with meaning.

[13:28] herman Bergson: Isn't is philosophical interesting that you call suhan observation a crisis?

[13:28] herman Bergson: isnt that begging the question?

[13:28] herman Bergson: But your remark is very interesting...

[13:29] Uli Helendale: I think I make the distinction because it is a crisis for some. Maybe not for all, anymore.

[13:29] Areyn Laurasia: like the look in the eyes of someone on their deathbed

[13:29] herman Bergson: Yes I agree Uli...

[13:29] Uli Helendale: (I see it as a wonderful opportunity)

[13:30] Areyn Laurasia: an empowering opportunity :)

[13:30] herman Bergson: Bu tit is a crisis for those who believe in  whatever ....which defines their lives

[13:30] Uli Helendale: Yes.

[13:31] herman Bergson: We defined the individual.....

[13:31] herman Bergson: I think it is an amazing fact...

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:32] herman Bergson: Sartre took everything away from the individual...reduced it to a Cartesian ERGO SUM...

[13:32] herman Bergson: Just look arounfd in this world....

[13:32] herman Bergson: this kind of thinking is a Western product only....

[13:33] herman Bergson: bu tthe consequence of this "product" is that we have medicines, physics, psychology, and whatever sciences there are to understand our existence

[13:34] Areyn Laurasia: which level of the individual are we looking at? who you think you are? who you are based on how you appear? or who others think you are?

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all of it I guess

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but we define ourselves, no one else, no god or whatever

[13:34] herman Bergson: I think that is a psychological question Areyn....

[13:34] Uli Helendale: Are you contrasting the Western individual to an idea of the individual as in relation to others, to nature, etc.?

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there is thus nothing as fate

[13:35] Uli Helendale: A more communal individual?

[13:35] herman Bergson: yes yes Uli...I am contrasting our concept of  "the individual" to any other culture on this earth

[13:36] herman Bergson: and this from a Darwinian point of view...where is our chance of survival...

[13:36] herman Bergson: for instance...in Islam????

[13:36] herman Bergson: just to name a popular subject :-)

[13:37] Uli Helendale: hmmm, that makes me wonder about your conclusion that the Western individual is a scientific individual. More communal cultures may not focus on science as much but certainly have meaningful ways of thinking about things that don't align with our Western understanding.

[13:38] herman Bergson: that doesn’t answer the question of survival...

[13:38] herman Bergson: better medicines offer better chances....

[13:38] herman Bergson: not better meaningful ways of thinking

[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and u need science to make medicine

[13:39] herman Bergson: my point bejiita...

[13:39] herman Bergson: so you need a scientific analysis of reality

[13:39] Uli Helendale: Communal cultures, or those that come from "developing" countries, often have medicinal treatments that work for them. Also, their way of living harmoniously with nature provides for a sustainable approach to living on this planet.

[13:39] Uli Helendale: But yes, I understand what you're saying. :)

[13:40] Areyn Laurasia: if the western individual is a scientific individual, why then the illogical choice?

[13:40] herman Bergson: which illogical choice Areyn?

[13:42] herman Bergson: which illogical....:-)

[13:42] Areyn Laurasia: a few years back, the west did nothing with Syria, today, they are throwing billions and helpless under the deluge of refugees and more fearful and hateful sentiments in the western society

[13:42] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): (sneaks out to turn in, too tired, enjoy everyone)

[13:42] herman Bergson: ahh...

[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): welterusten Chantal

[13:42] herman Bergson: keep in mind one thing....

[13:43] herman Bergson: it is common practice to compare the human brain to a computer....

[13:43] herman Bergson: there is no greater nonsense than that...

[13:43] Uli Helendale: I have to go as well, but thank you. I'll come to another of these discussions. :)

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Uli

[13:43] herman Bergson: a computer is a completely predictable determinate machine..our brain isn’t at all..

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): A computer can not feel, its just switches dumbly following whatever is fed to it

[13:44] herman Bergson: our brain is a mass of conflicting processes...

[13:44] herman Bergson: one process we call rationality...the prefrontal lobe at work....

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all a computer can sense is voltage or no voltage 1 and 0 no matter what it is doing

[13:45] herman Bergson: bu tthat is just a part of our brain....we are much more complex...

[13:45] herman Bergson: so we are able to create chaos

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): isn't the whole universe chaos?

[13:46] Areyn Laurasia: entropy? :)

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a computer can't create chaos as even a random number generator have to be based on definite math for a computer to be able to process

[13:46] herman Bergson: I donn't know Beertje :-)

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true chaos cant be described wit a formula, its just everything messed up

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): divided evenly

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all over

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): blended

[13:47] herman Bergson: And if it was...I dont mind ...all here seems pretty  organised :-)

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I like controlled chaos and that i guess you could use a computer for

[13:47] herman Bergson: Bejiita's particles are in chaos now Beertje!

[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): smiles

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed they are since the machines are still off

[13:48] herman Bergson: The it i better to end this chaos for today, dear friends :-)

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but lot of data to go through still

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): this was something to think about anyway

[13:48] Areyn Laurasia: that's one way to put it into order :)

[13:48] herman Bergson: So thank you all for your participation again....Class dismissed....

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time ㋡

[13:49] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[[13:49] herman Bergson: My pleasure CB :-)

[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ㋡ great lecture Herman, thank you

[13:49] CB Axel: Much to think about.

[13:49] Areyn Laurasia: indeed

600; The Individual, CB and evolution

In the debate after the previous lecture CB made some remarks which unfortunately passed unnoticed due to the racist and discriminating remarks of one of the participants.

Unfortunately we first had to deal with that. However, I’d like to discuss CB’s remarks, for they suggest a real issue.

CB said: “As soon as the individual feels threatened, it seeks to band together with others who think the same. I don't know if we can completely pull ourselves away from tribal thinking.”

This morning there was an article in my newspaper, an interview with the authors of the book “Mismatch. Hoe we dagelijks worden misleid door ons oeroud brain.” (2016)

It is a Dutch publication. Translated the title of the book is “Mismatch.How we are day-by-day are mislead by our age-old brain.”

The point here is, that humans have most recently evolved to life as hunter-gatherers, where food resources were scarce. 

In the 10,000 years the advent of agriculture, the environment and lifestyle that humans live in have changed considerably, 

so much so that evolution has not been able to keep up with the rapid changes in environment. This leads to the notion of a mismatch theory in humans.

The essence of mismatch theory is that organisms possess traits, including behavioural, emotional, and biological,

that have been passed down through generations, preserved by natural selection because of their adaptive function in a given environment. 

However, the given environment of the evolutionary period can be quite unlike the current environment. 

Therefore, traits that were at one time adaptive in a certain environment, are now "mismatched" to the environment that the trait is currently present in. (from Wikipedia)

Maybe within this context CB’s observation regarding inclinations to tribal behaviour could be explained. An explanation by Evolutionary Psychology.

Our present cultural situation shows, that we have adopted the stand that ideally conflicts have to be resolved in peaceful and democratic ways,

based on the respect for every individual and for instance on Human Right. Our ability to use our ratio should be the leading principle and not primitive US versus THEM reflexes.

The later could be regarded as an example of a Mismatch, demonstrating that our brain is not adequate in dealing with enmities.

Another beloved example of mismatch is our current tendency to obesity. In Pleistocene environments sugars were relatively uncommon in the human diet since 200.000 year ago. (assumption)

In the modern Western diet, however, food with such properties is relatively easy to acquire. This can be problematic since an abundance of sugars

combined with the human adaptation to prefer them can, and often does, contribute to obesity and chronic metabolic syndrome.

However, the mismatch hypothesis is based upon assumptions regarding our ancestor’s environment, how we interacted with it, 

and how we evolved as a result.  There are many assumptions and guesses based upon few direct observational data. 

All nature loves sweets, from bee to bear and none of them suffer of obesity. And that we do, should be caused 

by the fact that our evolution of the brain didn’t keep pace with the changes in our environment? I have my serious doubts about that theory.

Being an individual doesn’t mean that our brain is like a compute,where you have input and output. Our brain is much more complicated.

You have input and how it is dealt with just depends on who you are as an individual.

Thank you…the floor is yours….

The discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: To introduce you to evolutionary psychology...:-)

[13:21] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): I would love to see you discuss with one

[13:21] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): or with an anthropologist

[13:21] herman Bergson: I don't think it leads to understanding the individual..

[13:22] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): ah more in general you mean

[13:22] herman Bergson: yes...

[13:22] CB Axel: I still feel that when stressed, our cerebral cortex gets overwhelmed and lets the more primitive part of our brains take over.

[13:22] herman Bergson: yes CB..to some extend this is true, I think

[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe is stress situations we need shelter near other individuals

[13:23] herman Bergson: Yet, you can ask the question...to what extend.....is this extend decreasing for instance?

[13:24] herman Bergson: Last week there was a column in my newspaper...

[13:24] herman Bergson: the auther discussed those prehistoric findings in Kenya of this massacre...

[13:24] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): when in stress, anxiety or fear... seek other like minded... tribe, religion etc.... sounds plausible Beertje

[13:24] herman Bergson: and he said...yes there we go...

[13:25] herman Bergson: remove the thin layer of varnish and man is that ferocious animal again....

[13:25] CB Axel: Exactly.

[13:25] herman Bergson: but in his opinion that was too easy....

[13:26] herman Bergson: we HAVE changed.....

[13:26] herman Bergson: we are less violent to begin with....

[13:26] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): due to language

[13:26] CB Axel: Until cornered.

[13:26] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): ㋡

[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): does that count for every human on this planet?

[13:26] herman Bergson: even when cornered....

[13:26] herman Bergson: of course not Beertje...

[13:27] herman Bergson: no

[13:27] herman Bergson: The complexity of this world is that it is in so many different stages of development

[13:27] CB Axel nods

[13:27] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): always have been... seems to shift around the globe

[13:28] herman Bergson: That is one of the tricky points of this project...:-)

[13:28] herman Bergson: the suggestion that we as Western civilisation are in the lead :-))

[13:29] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): This time we are

[13:29] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): China has been for centuries...so were the greek and romans etc

[13:29] herman Bergson: and here I mean in the lead of developing a way of coexistence with our fellowmen based on the concept of individuality

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): as you said Chantal last week..maybe it is because we live in a cool area, we can keep our heads cool

[13:30] herman Bergson: China for instance never has been, Chantal....

[13:30] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): By what standards Herman?

[13:30] herman Bergson: by the standard of individuality.....

[13:30] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): writing? they did centuries before we did ㋡

[13:30] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): ah true that one 100%

[13:30] herman Bergson: Teh individual never has been a value in Chinese culture...

[13:30] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): true

[13:31] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): opposite even

[13:31] herman Bergson: the family was or the collective...

[13:31] CB Axel: They even have one time zone for the entire country. °͜°

[13:31] CB Axel: Although, that could be a good thing.

[13:31] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): yes CB ㋡ funny really

[13:32] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): sorry herman... get back on track please

[13:32] herman Bergson: It needs a lot more of research but it is my belief that this typical concept of individuality is a European "invention"

[13:33] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): isn't america an example of it too? american dream and all

[13:33] CB Axel: I'm not sure but I think some tribes of native Americans valued the individual.

[13:33] herman Bergson: That could be the case indeed, CB....

[13:34] herman Bergson: But I also relate this concept of individuality to a scientific interpretation and approach of reality

[13:34] CB Axel: That would be really interesting, since native Americans descended from Asians.

[13:35] herman Bergson: I mean...the relation between the individual and how he looks at his world

[13:35] herman Bergson: To begin with...

[13:36] herman Bergson: it was the European individual who discovered based on hard data that he was NOT the centre of the universe

[13:36] herman Bergson: to discover that you just are somewhere in the universe on some random planet...

[13:37] CB Axel: But did the Chinese, for example, think that mankind was the centre of the universe?

[13:37] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): (Chinese communism states china is the centre)

[13:37] herman Bergson: I don't know enough about Chinese culture in that detail...

[13:38] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): even taught their students you can see the great wall from space

[13:38] herman Bergson: But the emperor was their centre of their universe

[13:38] CB Axel: Did they think the earth was the centre of everything?

[13:38] herman Bergson: I wonder if thy ever thought about such things at all :-)

[13:38] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): me too

[13:38] herman Bergson: in the way we did

[13:39] CB Axel: Yes. We and our one god.

[13:39] herman Bergson: Confucius didn’t for instance...

[13:40] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Chinese kept their philosophies close to nature, family life and the emperor

[13:40] herman Bergson: Well..Kepler and Galilei caused problems for that one god....

[13:40] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): earth business

[13:40] herman Bergson: for he too was removed form the centre of things and had to find a new home :-)

[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes Chantall....

[13:43] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): during the black death in  

[13:43] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): some died... some did not

[13:43] herman Bergson: Today you may have learnt that I have no high hopes of Evolutionary Psychology to bring us a better understanding of the development of the concept of "teh individual" in an evolutionary sense

[13:44] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): past years we discovered some people are immune .... can it be so... thats some brains are made to function individually and others need "tribes, being part of a group"?

[13:44] herman Bergson: so when we try to understand tribal inclinations in our own behaviour....the mismatch there is just speculation...

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you mean some brains are developing in another way Chantal?

[13:45] herman Bergson: Here I prefer neurobiological insights more

[13:45] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): yes... as in their brain or mind needs others?

[13:46] herman Bergson: I already referred to that issue in my latest lecture Chantal....

[13:46] herman Bergson: and I therefore distinguished between evolution of the mind and evolution of the brain

[13:46] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): yes i recall

[13:47] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): but I keep searching for the why ㋡

[13:47] herman Bergson: as I said last Sunday.....education and a scientific view of the world, Chantal....that could explain a lot

[13:48] CB Axel: That could.

[13:48] herman Bergson: it is also the nature  nurture problem

[13:48] herman Bergson: we just do not know....

[13:48] CB Axel: It's shown that the better educated a woman is, the less likely she is to have children.

[13:49] herman Bergson: that is nly true in a culture where such a woman can get a demanding job, CB :-)

[13:49] herman Bergson: and a cerreer

[13:50] herman Bergson: otherwise you say that there is a simple causal relation between level of education and procreation

[13:50] CB Axel: There seems to be.

[13:51] herman Bergson: Then...when you want a population to grow you should  exclude women form education :-)

[13:52] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): bad idea!!!!!!!

[13:52] herman Bergson: At this moment for instance in China where the one child policy has disastrous consequences

[13:52] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): ㋡

[13:52] CB Axel: Well, is it because education makes women want fewer children, or does having lots of children keep a woman from getting an education?

[13:53] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Maybe the ability to protection is the reason ㋡

[13:53] herman Bergson: It is true that birthrates went down the more educated a population became here in Europe :-)

[13:53] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): I can imagine african women have less options to get a pill or condom

[13:54] herman Bergson: and education

[13:54] CB Axel: Even when women get condoms, the men refuse to use them.

[13:54] herman Bergson: true...

[13:54] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): I know CB... you are as well as informed I often notice ㋡ love it

[13:55] herman Bergson: I think it is time to come to an end again :-)

[13:56] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): (oh I am assuming here, excuse me, was talking about Africa and the struggles women have there to have safe sex)

[13:56] herman Bergson: Thank you for your participation again ...:-)

[13:56] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.

[13:56] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Was great Herman ㋡

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman ㋡

[13:56] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^

599: Some evolution of the Individual

What I try to achieve with this project is to obtain a kind of clear picture of the meaning of the concept “the individual”.

We take it so for granted that we are respected as an individual, that we may claim individual rights, freedom and property.

On the other hand, as soon as we claim that this is a real positive achievement and compare this with other cultures, which don’t support individualism,

in no time we’ll hear the objection that this is Eurocentric or Western thinking and values. Is this kind of cultural relativism justified?

As a working hypothesis I take the view, that individualism as it has evolved in Europe is an evolutionary step in the development of the mind.

It is rather dangerous to add in line with modern ideas like “We are our brain”, that this also relates to an evolutionary step in the development of the brain. Yet through the ages our genes have mutated.

If you value individualism and the individual, you then implicitly would be claiming that the Western brain is more evolved than the brains of people in other cultures.

But because we hardly have any idea how the mind is related to or generated by the brain and the equation BRAIN == MIND is questionable,

why couldn’t there be two lines of evolution, one of the brain and one of the mind?

Just imagine a complex machine and two operators. They both operate the same machine, but operator A gets significantly better results than operator B.

Then you would conclude that operator A is better than operator B. You could analyse how A and B operate the machine and thus discover the cause of the discrepancy.

A simple example from real life. Assume that all homo sapiens in this stage of his evolution have the same central nervous system and brain.

But we can see, that using that brain in one way is better than in another way or to say it in other words: a person with education has more chances of survival than one without education.

Thence you could come to the conclusion, that education contributes to or even influences the evolution of the mind.

One of the strong forces in how we use our brain is the WE versus THE OTHERS thinking.

Archeological findings proof, that this way of using our brain has a long history. Recently 10.000 years  old remains were discovered in Kenya.

A group of people, women, children, massacred. Crushed skulls, smashed knees, limbs, an arrowhead inside a skull.

You need little imagination to picture what must have happened 10.000 years ago…. it was US against THEM.

The diagram, which I presented you is completely based on this atavistic feeling. Just think of religious or tribal feelings……they intrinsically define THE OTHERS.

Up to the present day we see how all acts of terrorism are justified by claiming that THE OTHERS have to be killed.

And then there is Descartes, not defining his personal identity by contrasting it to THE OTHERS, but by simple reference to the consciousness of his own mind.

That is what this project is about: the hypothesis that consciousness of individuality is an evolutionary stage in evolution of the mind.

So let’s continue our research on this subject….

Thank you again for your attention….the floor is yours…

The Discussion

[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: interesting so you do agree then that evolution is still going on in humans

[13:19] herman Bergson: Take your time to think this over...:-)

[13:19] CB Axel: So, according to Descartes, everyone is the other. Even our own families, etc. °͜°

[13:19]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): This we and them thinking i think is a bit strange, after all we are all the same but I guess many dont think like that

[13:19] herman Bergson: of course evolution  is still going on Gemma....

[13:20] herman Bergson: No no CB

[13:20]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): On the other hand i have strong empathy for others in general as long they are kind to both me and others

[13:20] Wolfy (wolfy737): you were talking about US and OTHERS among the people...but what about an idea if there would not be any US or OTHERS but HUMANKIND and inferior SPECIES

[13:20] herman Bergson: From the Cartesian point of view there IS no other....

[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: seems to me as western thought progressed we just got into larger and larger and more horrible wars

[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): back then it was tribes

[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: that is why the dada movement rejected western rationality entirely

[13:21] Wolfy (wolfy737): brain has every animal...but human mind is something special and not common to all

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): those bones were bodies attacked by another we tribe

[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: they said if the best you can give us is the horrors of WWI then the hell with you

[13:23] herman Bergson: WWII was also base don the US and THE OTHERS thinking.....

[13:23] herman Bergson: the pure race and the rest of the world....

[13:23] Wolfy (wolfy737): but I must absolutely agree with idea that the education - the "will to know" -as I call it myself in my works - gives an advantage to humankind

[13:23] herman Bergson: total collectivistic  situation

[13:24] Wolfy (wolfy737): but not all - as it calls - "races" are able to achieve the highest level of knowledge...

[13:24] Stranger Nightfire: and right now in this country we may be about to elect a vicious fascist as president, doesn't seem like we are doing such a great job of evolving

[13:24] herman Bergson: my point is that collectivism can't occur when we see ourselves as individuals...but that is the extreme point of view

[13:24]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): If i got hold of Trump i would immediately put him in the trash compactor

[13:25]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako) whispers: what an idiot that is!

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he is sure an example of oe who is an individual who can do and say what he wants

[13:25]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if he becomes president not only US but the entire world is at risk since us affect the rest of the world

[13:25] herman Bergson: There I agree with you, Stranger !!!!

[13:25] CB Axel: That would be nice, Herman, but I don't see that happening. As soon as the individual feels threatened, it seeks to band together with others who think the same.

[13:25] herman Bergson: That man is a danger to world peace...

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): agreed

[13:26]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:26] CB Axel: I don't know if we can completely pull ourselves away from tribal thinking.

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the centre will not allow it to happen

[13:26] herman Bergson: And if the American people elects him that people is too!

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i really don’t think it will

[13:26] CB Axel: I keep hoping that we can, but I'm pessimistic.

[13:26]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I see trump like Homer Simpson at the controls of their nuclear weapons

[13:26] Wolfy (wolfy737): is not Obama danger for the entire world as well?

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not me

[13:26]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): LALLALA CLICK PUSH KABOOOM BLAM

[13:27] herman Bergson: Trump is the ultimate example of the WE and the others thinking!!!!

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): where he is gaining ground is among many uneducated

[13:27]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess

[13:27] CB Axel: Perhaps, Bejiita, that is the next step in our evolution.

[13:27] Wolfy (wolfy737): the same Obama...as I have noticed

[13:27]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I don’t get how people can support this bastard

[13:27] Wolfy (wolfy737): Obama+jews+niggers

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): because most of them are astards too

[13:27]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he is insane and full of shit

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bastards that is

[13:27] herman Bergson: What do you mean Wolfy???

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes wolfy??

[13:28] CB Axel: Because they are afraid and think Trump will keep them safe. They're wrong, but I think that's what they think.

[13:28]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): be safe from an idiot?

[13:28]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): They are really wrong then

[13:28] CB Axel: And our discussion has evolved into a US political talk.

[13:28] CB Axel: sigh

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true

[13:29] herman Bergson: Explain your "Obama+jews+niggers" plz, Wolfy..

[13:29] Wolfy (wolfy737): I mean that while true MAN pretends to be humanist and follows jewish orders - as called NWO the jews and niggers gets higher power over MANKIND meanwhile

[13:29] CB Axel: The people who back Trump are afraid of Muslims, socialists (even though they are socialists themselves), unemployment, high taxes... the list goes on.

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): jewish orders??

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): N>>????

[13:30] Wolfy (wolfy737): everybody knows that Obama is supported by jews who wish to own true MANKIND - NWO (new world order)

[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: well trying to wrap our head around that we are evolving into higher level rational beings kind of had to bring it up

[13:30]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm i guess so

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we dont use that language I hope

[13:30] herman Bergson: Do we have a Donald Trump in here????

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good question i think

[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: modern politics I mean

[13:30] herman Bergson: Guess you are a bit out of line here Wolfy..

[13:30] Wolfy (wolfy737): I do not care of Trump...I do care of human future...and Obama is the best weapon in jewish hands

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): unless we misunderstood

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good heavens guess we didn’t

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Obama a weapon in Jewish hands???????

[13:31] CB Axel: So you don't like Jews? I guess that's what you're saying.

[13:31] Wolfy (wolfy737): you began to talk about US and OTHERS and about knowledge and about politics

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he has been fighting with benny since he got in office

[13:31] herman Bergson: Sorry Wolfy..but  I think you need better arguments for your point of view...so far you produce nonsense....

[13:32] herman Bergson: this is a philosophy class...

[13:32] Wolfy (wolfy737): yes...it is pretty hard to explain the ideas here by chat

[13:32] herman Bergson: we use facts and arguments for our statements....

[13:32] herman Bergson: it never has been otherwise here in class Wolfy....

[13:33] Wolfy (wolfy737): is it not philosophy to talk about humankind? about its unique brain and mind?

[13:33] herman Bergson: so..think twice before you say something

[13:33] Wolfy (wolfy737): ok... I am quiet from now

[13:33] herman Bergson: just a good advise...

[13:34] CB Axel: Yes, bigotry doesn't go over well here. °͜°

[13:34] herman Bergson: indeed it doesn’t...

[13:34] Wolfy (wolfy737): it is not about bigotry...omg

[13:34] herman Bergson: what does the word mean CB..:-))

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but that statement really was

[13:34] CB Axel: When you complain about Jews and niggers (a verboten word in the US) you are being bigoted.

[13:35] Wolfy (wolfy737): you are talking about brain and mind.... about the US and the OTHERS ... but using the wrong view by my opinion

[13:35] CB Axel: You are definitely being them against us.

[13:36] herman Bergson: in dutch Google translate it as "kwezelarij"...but I even do not understand the meaning of that obsolete dutch word....

[13:37] herman Bergson: but yet you are right CB :-))

[13:37] herman Bergson: Well...I think we all gained some new ideas after this debate....

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks the professor will edit the commentary for the blog

[13:38] herman Bergson: so...thank you all again for your participation :-)

[[13:38] CB Axel: Asterisks are our friends in editing. °͜°

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true

[13:38] herman Bergson: I will not edit a syllabi Gemma...it is as it is...

[[13:38] herman Bergson: I only will correct the typos...

[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): see you next Tuesday I hope

[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********

[13:39] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman & Class

[13:39] herman Bergson: Everyone here is responsible for his or her own remarks...

[13:39] CB Axel: I hope so, too, Gemma

[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): get yourself together bergie

[13:39]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): anyway, lets dig deep into this

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now

[13:40] herman Bergson: We will Bejiita :-)

[13:40]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:40] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Gemma :-)

[13:40] herman Bergson: Thank you all...class dismissed...

[13:40]  Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time

598: Back again....!

Welcome to you all again. Glad to see you and thank you for your patience to quote an old adagium of Linden Lab.

.

I had to deal with major events in my First Life. Selling a house, buying a new one….the amount of stress…! 

.

Legal and financial issues, moving. Don’t ask me….but it is all over now (to quote the Rolling Stones) :-)

.

It all started here on this globe and I moved from a place where I lived for 38 years to a place 235 km away from it…

.

And believe me, I am happy about it, even tho it disrupts your whole daily life for months. But we are here again.!

.

I lived in a part of my country where people speak dialects I do not understand. Fortunately the people also are capable of speaking common Dutch.

.

Yet, tho I lived and worked there for more than 38 years with real pleasure, it subconsciously feels as if you are a stranger in your own country. You do not fit in, because you do not speak the dialect(s)….

.

Now I live where I feel at home…near Amsterdam and the other big cities like Rotterdam and The Hague.

.

All boxes are unpacked now and eventually my brain is too, so it is about time to resume our normal SLife again.

.

What was our subject? Ahh yes…Existentialism and Free Will. The quintessence of this project is, however, 

.

that we as European/Anglo-American people see ourselves as individuals with our individual rights.

. 

So what I try to analyse and understand is, what we use to call is individualism. According to the dictionary it means 

.

“Belief in the primary importance of the individual and in the virtues of self-reliance and personal independence”

.

or “a social theory advocating the liberty, rights, or independent action of the individual”.

.

More scientifically formulated along the lines of thought of Max Weber in his “Economy and Society” (1922) it amounts to the idea,

.

that social phenomena must be explained by showing how they result from individual actions, .

.

which in turn must be explained through reference to the intentional states that motivate the individual actors.

.

Thus we could come to the observation, that existentialism is based on free will which as such shapes the individual and thence society, that is, our culture.

.

But, as we have seen, the birth of the individual happened much earlier in history….around 1600, when we accepted that we, according to Kepler,  were NOT the centre of the universe

.

and where Descartes concluded, that the only thing left to him in absolute doubt was the certainty of his own individual mind.

.

Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679) showed how individuals can live in a society. According to him, society is a population beneath a sovereign authority, 

.

to whom all individuals in that society cede some rights for the sake of protection. The individuals are thereby the authors of all decisions made by the sovereign.

.

John Locke (1632 -1704) added the feature of personal inalienable rights to the individual. Thus John Locke can be seen as the father of liberal individual.

.

We easily take all these developments for granted, but it confronts us also with the question: 

.

why does Western civilisation focus on the individual, why did this evolve in Europe, why not in other cultures?

.

And perhaps an even trickier question….. is this a sign of evolutionary progress of the mind/brain or just some accidental  event?

.

I think, that this brings us right back on focus again and revives our thoughts and ideas regarding this project.

.

I feel, that my brain is picking up speed again, so we are ready to continue our project on the individual.

.

Thank you for your attention for now….plz the floor is yours again….^_^

The Discussion

[13:25] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): were you in a hurry?

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks about the European culture before that time

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Feels indeed like individualism is something a bit isolated

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): culture play a part too

[13:26] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): I think wealth is the cradle of individuality and probably education.

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): was it just an escape from medieval life?

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): for the individual

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): who was always under a supervising king

[13:27] herman Bergson: Maybe I should remind you of this diagram....

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just look how it is now in the world, suicide bombers who blow people up, rape and torture people and similar, or is this something that have overwritten their evolution making them into monsters

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i think its weird

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and scary

[13:27] Door Deluxe Plus: handy Bade has just entered your land !

[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): how people can become like that

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hi handy

[13:28] herman Bergson: I think this diagram tells you, Bejita...

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok

[13:28] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): If you get taught hatred Bejiita... from baby time on... its probably very easy

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that was then

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess so

[13:28] herman Bergson: the individual is the most lonely person on this planet...

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but still

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not only under the king but the church too

[13:29] herman Bergson: but biologically he comes from far....

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:29] herman Bergson: from a common belief shared with others....

[13:29] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): (agrees with you though on the scary part etc) @ Bejiita

[13:29] herman Bergson: about existence and the universe...

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:30] herman Bergson: if he looses that he still has the belief in his tribe

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): actually if you go back in history and look

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ☆*¨¨*<♥*''*BEJIITA!!! *''*<♥:*¨¨*☆

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there has always been some form of terrorist

[13:30] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): gosh I am lonely... as it seems

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that was frightening

[13:30] herman Bergson: The basic feeling in a human is the we versus the others felling....

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is true

[13:31] herman Bergson: but the we can only exist based on the belief in a religion...or a tribe...or a nation or a family...

[13:31] herman Bergson: and if those are not there anymore...those believes, I mean...you are an individual

[13:32] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Majority that is, herman, right

[13:32] herman Bergson: then you have to define your existence , understand it, understand reality...

[13:32] herman Bergson: and the only thing you have is science

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:33] herman Bergson: just common sense knowledge actually...laws of physics

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if we believed in science instead of religion my feel is world would have been much better

[13:33] herman Bergson: you can deny and ignore any religion or belief...but never the laws of physics

[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you don’t blow each other up over science

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not sure of that bejiitaa

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and also science is fact

[13:34] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Smiles, some do ㋡

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh i think some do

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well not everyone is like the ones at CERN and NASA i gues

[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:34] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): ㋡

[13:35] herman Bergson: if it were that simple...

[13:35] herman Bergson: Science is about causality.....

[13:35] herman Bergson: cause and effect....

[13:35] herman Bergson: A causes B...

[13:35] herman Bergson: so when you see A you know B will show up...

[13:36] herman Bergson: but that means..absolute determinism....

[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): is B always the opposite of A?

[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I don’t believe much in different gods someone state exist but if i get some CERN data like the one i showed before or watch something from NASA then i believe it because its been analysed and they always try to state true fact and if they are not 100% sure they say so

[13:36] herman Bergson: the result of A, beertje...

[13:36] herman Bergson: A veroorzaakt B

[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok, dankjewel

[13:37] herman Bergson: The problem is....

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also they describe very well what they do in those papers

[13:37] herman Bergson: if we acccept that view, we would be deterministic machines ourselves....

[13:37] herman Bergson: especially the neuroscientists have to deal with this problem....

[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok

[13:38] herman Bergson: and thence with free will

[13:38] herman Bergson: we'll deal with that later :-)

[13:39] herman Bergson: so...on the one hand I am inclined to accept that the individual is a stage in darwinian evolution...but also that science as such is not the whole story for the individual to accept life as something meaningful

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not the entire story maybe

[13:40] herman Bergson: no....but I also reject such ideas which are called spirituality....

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: i think science is ongoing in learning itself

[13:41] herman Bergson: of course Gemma...

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but its better to believe in something you can see and check (science) vs religion (where i bet noone ever have really seen a god and it probably was just a nightmare or hallucination)

[13:41] herman Bergson: that is a good start Bejiita, if you ask me :-))

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:42] herman Bergson: Well..I think we are back in business again...:-)

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:42] herman Bergson: And yes chantal, I WAS in a hurry to get there :-))

[13:42] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): ㋡

[13:43] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): we noticed ㋡

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): has been a while yes

[13:43] herman Bergson: Almost lost practice :-)

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:43] herman Bergson: But here we are again....:-)

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): you did well

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:43] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Applauds ㋡

[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope i can make it Thursday

[13:44] herman Bergson: SO..thank you all for your attention, dear friends...:-)

[13:44] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Thank you for your wisdom ㋡

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu thursday then I guess

[13:44] herman Bergson: I'll be there on Thursday, gemma :-))

[13:44] CB Axel: I did miss these discussions. °͜°

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): now I’m gonna plow through some more ATLAS experiment data

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe

[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, they are nice

[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol Bejiita

[13:44] Chantal (nymf.hathaway): Enjoy everyone, till Thursday ㋡

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): .)

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:45] herman Bergson: But be back in time on Thursday!

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman and a goodnight to you all

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu all soon ㋡

[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye

[13:45] CB Axel: Good bye, everyone. It was nice seeing you all again. °͜°

[13:45] herman Bergson: Bye CB