In the discussion of my previous lecture I told you, that I am not the bright guy who invents all these ideas and arguments against neo-liberalism.
As I told you, look on the internet, check the literature, read your newspaper. Everywhere you find the growing insight, that we are definitely on the wrong track when pursuing the apparent blessings of the free market.
As I said….just read your newspaper. Therefor, as an example, I'd like to quote for you alter, written by some Dutchman and send to a national newspaper which published it. I read it as a confirmation of the growing insight, that things have to be changed.
-quote-
"More and more voices advocating reduction of privatization and of its product: the free market. The theory does not work. Healthcare is likely to be unmanageable and priceless. Most doctors who just want to be a doctor, want to get rid of the market.
Education groans under regulations; institutions are uncontrollable and chaotic mammoth organizations. Pupils and students become completely lost and often go their own way.
The remnant of the unsurpassed PTT (Dutch postal Services, hB), TNT, threatening to become unmanageable due to the repeated departure of directors . Housing .., no, now I hold on.
The Liberal toys just do not work for these organizations and services. Hopefully that penetrates slowly through in The Hague (seat of the Dutch parliament, hB)
and hopefully a new government will take appropriate measures to stop this misbegotten privatization and its product, the free market, as much as possible and to reverse with reason."
Henk Schraa, Heemskerk (The name of the author, just an ordinary concerned Dutch citizen). Tomorrow will be a significant day in Dutch politics. We may vote.
The campaigns are on and the situation is the clearest proof of what is happening in this world. The dutch situation is thus: the dutch parliament is composed of about 12 different parties. A government is always a coalition.
At this moment there are two parties in the lead for becoming the biggest party. On the one hand the liberal party, strong advocates for privatization and unlimited economic growth and on the other hand a socialist party, pleading for less free market and a more fair sharing of the national wealth.
At this moment the polls show a tie between the two. Nobody dares to predict anymore who will be the biggest party tomorrow evening at midnight.
And this simple political fact about a small country I interpret in the same way as I interpret the on coming presidential elections in the US.
Tho there are a lot of powers and influences beyond our democratic control, voters are not stupid. They too see what is going on in the world, that we have to choose between greed or sharing.
Before the 80s the stock exchange was a place where people interacted with people. After work you could meet the guy, who, for instance, ripped you off that day and you could at least have a discussion about fair trade,
but economic theory developed in the wrong direction after the war, because the mathematicians took power there. Economics thus has become a value-free trade in which moral judgments no longer count, but only numbers, put in a mathematical formula.
In other words, the pseudo-science claims thanks to the models of Nobel Prize Winners as Paul Samuelson and Black & Scholes, such as the option price theory and market efficiency theory, to have become a real science.
In this environment, the beast in man got loose. The goal is no longer to be the best bank for the customer, but to be the largest and most profitable one so that, thanks to super bonuses bankers could enrich themselves.
Economics is not a science like physics. In fact it is human behavior and thence a part of psychology end thence a part of philosophy, which can show you that there first is ethics and then there is economics.
[13:33] herman Bergson: Thank you ^_^
[13:33] Qwark Allen: ::::::::: * E * X * C * E * L * L * E * N * T * ::::::::::
[13:33] Lizzy Pleides: thank you herman
[13:33] Debbie Dee (framdor): Thank YOU Herman.
[13:33] Qwark Allen: first thing i have to say, that it doesn't matter what your vote will be
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): tomorrow we can vote..I hope that the politicians do what they promise us
[13:33] Qwark Allen: there is no option in the parties you have to choose off
[13:33] herman Bergson: I disagree (to some extend) Qwark ^_^
[13:33] Qwark Allen: its a illusion
[13:34] Kime Babenco: Thanks Herman
[13:34] herman Bergson: No that is not true....
[13:34] Qwark Allen: ☆ ->~*~Partyyyyyyyyyy!!!!~*~ <- ☆
[13:34] Qwark Allen: no matter the that wins
[13:34] Debbie Dee (framdor): Yes Qwark, I find that the pre election promises evaporate the day after.
[13:34] Qwark Allen: the politic resultant of the election will be the same
[13:34] herman Bergson: We voted for better health care and we HAVE better health care than for instance the US,
[13:34] Qwark Allen: ☆ ->~*~Partyyyyyyyyyy!!!!~*~ <- ☆
[13:34] Qwark Allen: A or B, when elected follow the same rules
[13:34] Qwark Allen: the market rule
[13:34] herman Bergson: To some extend I agree with you Qwark....
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I think we HAD better healthcare before Herman
[13:35] herman Bergson: Here in the netherlands they complained about the fact of 6 elections in 10 years...
[13:35] Qwark Allen: you are blind if you think the party B, with the pre election view of sharing will do any different then the A, with neoliberal view
[13:35] Qwark Allen: they are sponsored by the same ones
[13:35] Debbie Dee (framdor): Well, you guys at least have health care. here public health care sucks....
[13:35] herman Bergson: average lifetime of a government is 2 years....
[13:36] Kime Babenco: Voting is a duty or a right there? I prefer it as a duty
[13:36] herman Bergson: Yet...the Netherlands has become one of the richest countries in the world...
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's a right Kime
[13:36] Debbie Dee (framdor): Its a right here.
[13:36] Qwark Allen: one sponsor both parties, so it doesn't matter who wins, the "one" that sponsored both for elections, is the one that wins
[13:36] herman Bergson: Yes it is a right....
[13:36] Kime Babenco: It's a duty here (right between 18 and 21, and above 55)
[13:36] Qwark Allen: do you think any of them will go agains`t the sponsor?
[13:36] herman Bergson: Well Qwark what shocked me was what our prime minister said......
[13:37] herman Bergson: he said in some debate "We have to listen to the financial markets..."
[13:37] Qwark Allen: eheheh see what i mean
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes I know what you mean..... ^_^
[13:37] Qwark Allen: the ones that rule the markets at the moment, are the ones in control of any government you choose
[13:37] Kime Babenco: Really ? Markets talk there?
[13:38] Qwark Allen: there is not really a option there
[13:38] herman Bergson: And these financial markets are a threat to democracy
[13:38] Qwark Allen: i`m still with rand vision
[13:38] herman Bergson: Yes Kime…they even have a big mouth....
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I hope he will be gone by tomorrow
[13:38] Qwark Allen: separete government for economy, and regulate the market
[13:38] Lizzy Pleides: in Gemany every big company has a lobby in berlin
[13:38] Qwark Allen: market
[13:38] Kime Babenco: That's their goal Herman...
[13:39] herman Bergson: Let me give you an example.......
[13:39] herman Bergson: yes Lizzy....
[13:39] Qwark Allen: markets now, are not regulated and any government is just corrupt to them
[13:39] Qwark Allen: any governnent
[13:39] herman Bergson: The government proposes a plan...say...something about taxes on profits...
[13:39] Qwark Allen: taxes for us, profits for them
[13:39] herman Bergson: then the prime minister gets a phone call from a big CEO of a multinational....
[13:40] Lizzy Pleides: true Qwark
[13:40] herman Bergson: He says....if you do that we move our main office and factory abroad.....
[13:40] herman Bergson: thousands of jobs.....
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so only the poor among us have to pay higher taxes
[13:40] Qwark Allen: because this lobbies have enslaved all countries
[13:40] Debbie Dee (framdor): and millions of taxes
[13:41] herman Bergson: At the same time his colleague in London does the same there....and they have a good laugh about it.
[13:41] Lizzy Pleides: not the poor
[13:41] Debbie Dee (framdor): lol... if only
[13:41] Kime Babenco: Rich people are among themselves like us knows us
[13:41] Lizzy Pleides: but those who earn money and work
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes indeed Kime,
[13:41] Qwark Allen: they control the money, therefore they control the countries
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i mean the people with the lowest income Lizzy
[13:42] Qwark Allen: they give money to all the parties to a election
[13:42] herman Bergson: Indeed Qwark....but not in all respects
[13:42] Qwark Allen: so doesn`t matter who win the election
[13:42] Lizzy Pleides: in Germany they pay almost no taxes
[13:42] Kime Babenco: They have the best lawyers, the most capital, all of friends in the same situation... like friends help friends
[13:42] Qwark Allen: look the example of the world wars
[13:42] Kime Babenco: Even judges i
[13:42] herman Bergson: As long as the workers work hard and produce profits for the rich all is well
[13:42] Qwark Allen: they were sponsored by warburg brothers
[13:43] Qwark Allen: or the russian revolution
[13:43] Qwark Allen: or any thing else
[13:43] herman Bergson: Krupp stahl...
[13:43] Debbie Dee (framdor): All is not well - we need to consume as well, to sustain growth...
[13:43] herman Bergson: Fokker aviation industry....
[13:43] Qwark Allen: if you sponsor both sides, doesn't matter who wins, you always win
[13:43] herman Bergson: Yes ^_^
[13:44] herman Bergson: But there is a new aspect in this matter.....
[13:44] Kime Babenco: You mean Fokker airplanes ?
[13:44] Qwark Allen: that is what gives the illusion of choice to all of us
[13:44] herman Bergson: in the financial world....the upper 10% new players have entered the game...
[13:44] Qwark Allen: there is no choice or option at the moment
[13:44] herman Bergson: Chinese and Russians...
[13:45] herman Bergson: I have no idea what that can mean....
[13:45] Qwark Allen: russians we know at a long time, are controlled by the rich families
[13:45] Lizzy Pleides: they are having the same greed as all others i guess
[13:45] herman Bergson: But a fact is that there are industrial tycoons with big money from the former communist countries pulling strings, I suppose
[13:45] Debbie Dee (framdor): What illusion of choice? I don't believe there is a proper choice at election time.
[13:45] Qwark Allen: there is no choice there, its what i`m saying
[13:46] Qwark Allen: A or B, will do the same thing
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Russians are buying our industry'
[13:46] Debbie Dee (framdor): yay qwark ;)
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and make their own rules
[13:46] Kime Babenco: If China ( which has so much US$ in stock) would sell all those US$... by now... then USA is down...to the floor (except military)
[13:46] herman Bergson: Yes it is a simplification as you put it, Qwark…
[13:46] Kime Babenco: The question is , would that a good thing to do for China ?
[13:47] herman Bergson: The world is not that one-dimensional in my opinion
[13:47] Qwark Allen: china lives in a illusion also
[13:47] Qwark Allen: unfortunately for them and for us
[13:47] Lizzy Pleides: china will have a problem with the age pyramid soon
[13:47] herman Bergson: Well, my friend ^_^
[13:47] Qwark Allen: their economy is based in a fake GDP
[13:47] herman Bergson: what do you expect next?
[13:48] herman Bergson: The Apocalyse :-))
[13:48] Qwark Allen: was artificially made, to look like they are growing well
[13:48] Debbie Dee (framdor): Yes, afraid so!
[13:48] Qwark Allen: its just another illusion
[13:48] herman Bergson: I still don't think so...
[13:48] Qwark Allen: they will have a black monday in the future
[13:48] herman Bergson: oh...maybe Qwark....
[13:48] Debbie Dee (framdor): Herman, there are 1 billion starving people this year according to the un
[13:49] Qwark Allen: read about what is making the GDP growth there
[13:49] Debbie Dee (framdor): thats the apocalypse already
[13:49] herman Bergson: But just keep in mind that human life is not just economics....
[13:49] Lizzy Pleides: hey, you are the modern Herman von Rotterdam (Erasmus)
[13:49] Kime Babenco: If I would have been living in Europe now... I would be afraid of the rising power of Germany there once again..
[13:49] Qwark Allen: you are right herman, its a shame what this bankers are doing with all us
[13:49] herman Bergson: smiles...
[13:49] herman Bergson: I see no threat in that.....
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I'm not afraid of germany
[13:50] Qwark Allen: for me one solution to start, was to vote blank in elections
[13:50] Qwark Allen: saying that any of those politicians are no good for us
[13:50] herman Bergson: Germany has risen to economic power already pretty soon after the war....it showed a remarkable recovery of the disaster
[13:50] Qwark Allen: to find others, with different ideas, and with courage to say no to the bankers
[13:50] herman Bergson: since the 60s Germany was the strongest in economy in Europe.
[13:50] Qwark Allen: to regulate markets
[13:51] Qwark Allen: to end with this governments corruption, to the bankers
[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Germany is very aware of what they have done in 1940
[13:51] Qwark Allen: no more of this very expensive campaigns, saying all the same
[13:51] herman Bergson: Yes Qwark.....the next job for human beings, politicians, is to put the financial markets in chains
[13:51] Qwark Allen: its millions of euros spent only in marketing
[13:52] Qwark Allen: marketing for politicians
[13:52] Qwark Allen: big parties, big everything
[13:52] Lizzy Pleides: we have a powerful economy but dissatisfied people in germany
[13:52] Kime Babenco: For as know as I know about financials and bankings ... I guess in 2008 governments had to let banks fail.. and only pay out people who saved their money there... Stock holding is a risk... first lessons of economy
[13:52] herman Bergson: true Kime
[13:53] Qwark Allen: and then in the end, they have to pay back their sponsors by keeping things as they are at the moment
[13:53] Kime Babenco: And secondly put all those trouble countries out of the Euros-zone...
[13:53] Kime Babenco: Help them later outside...
[13:53] Lizzy Pleides: yes, they will tear us all in the disaster
[13:53] Kime Babenco: If would have cost less ... and the result is still uncertain today.
[13:54] Qwark Allen: eheheh that will be devastating for us, to start
[13:54] Kime Babenco: Imagine it crashed next month.. they other countries put 3000 billion US$ in a sinking ship
[13:54] Qwark Allen: its a good idea, to stop the federalism
[13:54] herman Bergson: Yes KIme.....
[13:54] Lizzy Pleides: the big companies take the profit from the € and not the normal people
[13:54] Qwark Allen: but will keep things as they are now
[13:55] herman Bergson: One thing is for sure.....
[13:55] herman Bergson: not a single soul in Europe can predict how the situation will be in ...say ...two months....
[13:55] Qwark Allen: yes
[13:55] herman Bergson: There always is the intrigues of the financial markets....
[13:55] Lizzy Pleides: I can, lol
[13:56] Kime Babenco: Only one thing ?
[13:56] herman Bergson: plz don't tell us Lizzy ^_^
[13:56] Lizzy Pleides: ok i keep it for me
[13:56] Debbie Dee (framdor): awww
[13:56] Qwark Allen: i have to go
[13:56] Lizzy Pleides: giggle
[13:56] herman Bergson: Let me live with my illusion for two month on ^_^
[13:56] Qwark Allen: party starts in 3 minutes for me
[13:56] herman Bergson: thanks for coming Qwark...
[13:56] Qwark Allen: you very welcome
[13:56] herman Bergson: and cheer up ^_^
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): alles sal reg kom..is an Utopia...
[13:57] Qwark Allen: i`m not optimistic at the moment for sure
[13:57] Kime Babenco: Lucky Qwark
[13:57] Qwark Allen: but at least , i know a bit of the truth about
[13:57] herman Bergson: So I notice Qwark...
[13:57] herman Bergson: Well I still am...
[13:57] Qwark Allen: somehow i`m happy with that
[13:57] Qwark Allen: not everyone is blind
[13:57] Qwark Allen: somehow you helped me opening the eyes
[13:57] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:57] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:57] herman Bergson: We aren't blind here....
[13:58] Qwark Allen: ^^
[13:58] Qwark Allen: ¸¸.☆´ ¯¨☆.¸¸`☆** **☆´ ¸¸.☆¨¯`☆ H E R MA N ☆´ ¯¨☆.¸¸`☆** **☆´ ¸¸.☆¨¯`
[13:58] Qwark Allen: ty
[13:58] Debbie Dee (framdor): Leading the blind....
[13:58] Qwark Allen: you are awsome
[13:58] herman Bergson: A few more lectures and you all are ready for the revolution I think ^_^
[13:58] Lizzy Pleides: Good night everybody! sleep tight!
[13:58] Qwark Allen: Hooooooo!!!!!!! \O/ \O/ \O/
[13:58] Qwark Allen: | | |
[13:58] Qwark Allen: / \ / \ / \
[13:58] Debbie Dee (framdor): lol. yes. thanks herman
[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): night Lizzy...Gute Nacht
[13:58] Qwark Allen: lets crush them, with the truth of their lies
[13:58] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:58] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:58] herman Bergson: We will...
[13:58] Debbie Dee (framdor): night liz,
[13:58] Kime Babenco: The problem with an economic crises like this is that politicians are reacting too slowly. Bankers on the otherside , have the most accurate informations
[13:58] Qwark Allen: ˜*•. ˜”*°•.˜”*°• Bye ! •°*”˜.•°*”˜ .•*˜ ㋡
[13:58] herman Bergson: Beginning next lecture!
[13:58] Qwark Allen: for now
[13:59] herman Bergson: Bye Qwark
[13:59] Qwark Allen: AAHH!!!
[13:59] Qwark Allen: ::::::::: * E * X * C * E * L * L * E * N * T * ::::::::::
[13:59] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:59] Kime Babenco: Like I said rich knows rich, us knows us in that world
[13:59] herman Bergson: Yes Kime..and we still are the majority...
[14:00] Debbie Dee (framdor): Mmmm. I enjoy coming here, but it sometimes depresses me that we are so powerless.
[14:00] herman Bergson: and the rich need the workers to survive...
[14:00] Kime Babenco: And to put it in explication : all waters run to the seas o oceans
[14:00] herman Bergson: Well Debbie...you should look at it this way....
[14:00] Kime Babenco: Money behaves like water
[14:00] herman Bergson: evolution didn't happen in a week but took millions of years...
[14:00] Debbie Dee (framdor): sure
[14:01] Kime Babenco: \It goes from nothing to were there is already plenty of it
[14:01] herman Bergson: our scientific development ..to get where we are now took more than 300 years...
[14:01] herman Bergson: the social revolution with the fall of the Berlin wall to 90 years...
[14:01] Kime Babenco: More than or only ?
[14:01] Debbie Dee (framdor): yes? everything is speeding up....
[14:02] herman Bergson: We only can create conditions in our lifetime which will lead next generations in the desired direction
[14:02] Debbie Dee (framdor): Or in the wrong direction.
[14:02] herman Bergson: Well Kime....as a matter of evolution..I would say..it took only 90 years
[14:02] Kime Babenco: I hope not in deserted directions
[14:03] Debbie Dee (framdor): My underlying fear, as you know, relates to our inability to stop consuming, in the face of resource depletion.
[14:03] herman Bergson: Dont forget that there is a lot to do about environment, pollution, ozon layer defects, depletion of oceans and other natural resources….
[14:03] herman Bergson: we all SEE it....
[14:03] Debbie Dee (framdor): But we don't fix it.
[14:03] herman Bergson: even the greediest asshole cant deny that the resources of the world are limited...
[14:04] herman Bergson: that is not true...we do fix it.....but only on a small scale still
[14:04] Debbie Dee (framdor): So, why have there been NO carbon emission reductions since the signing of kyoto?
[14:04] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): these assholes don't care about limited rescourses
[14:05] herman Bergson: Maybe not Beertje....but eventually they have to...
[14:05] Debbie Dee (framdor): Not one country has lived up to its commitments
[14:05] Kime Babenco: Do you really believe they are looking for water at the Moon or Mars ?
[14:05] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes..when they consumed it all..
[14:05] Debbie Dee (framdor): Why is there carbon cap and trade deals?
[14:05] herman Bergson: True.....
[14:05] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and nothing is left..they search for other resources
[14:05] Debbie Dee (framdor): and they are about to drill the arctic
[14:05] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why are we buying useless things???
[14:06] herman Bergson: Yes they are...
[14:06] Debbie Dee (framdor): and fracking has been approved in the karoo desert in south africa this week
[14:06] Kime Babenco: Yes, in deed... Antarctica will follow one day
[14:06] herman Bergson: what is fracking Debbie?
[14:06] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they produce so many useless things we don't need...and we//stupid consumers..are buying these things..why?
[14:06] Debbie Dee (framdor): fracking is the method of gas extraction from shale.
[14:07] herman Bergson: Ahh..ok..
[14:07] Debbie Dee (framdor): It has damaged large parts of americas water table
[14:07] Debbie Dee (framdor): They drill a hole, and then ram a liquid down to break the rock and release the gas.
[14:07] herman Bergson: the discussion on useless things is not that simple Beertje....
[14:08] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): tomorrow is a big day for the Netherlands...I hope the next government uses their brains...
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