As we concluded last time, the basic condition of human existence is, according to the Buddha, suffering, the First Noble Truth of Buddhism. If you don’t understand this, you are still far from enlightenment.
This suffering finds its causes in birth ,aging, illness, death, union with what is displeasing, separation from what is pleasing, not to get what one wants. In brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering.
These last words need some explanation: “the five aggregates”. What is meant by them? Summarized you could say, the term means our body and mind in our material environment.
1. “Form" or "matter" , the physical world. the material body and the physical sense organs.
2. “Sensation" or "feeling" sensing an object[g] as either pleasant or unpleasant or neutral.
3. “Perception", " registers whether an object is recognized or not (for instance, the sound of a bell or the shape of a tree).
4. “Mental formations", all types of mental habits, thoughts, ideas, opinions, prejudices, compulsions, and decisions triggered by an object.
5. “Consciousness"
These five aggregates cause various kinds of desire – craving, clinging, attachment, impulse, greed, lust, thirst, and so on. The Second Noble Truth states that the source of our discontentment is found not simply in our desires, but in the connection we forge between desires and happiness.
-quote -
The Second Noble Truth: Now this is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence,accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence,craving for extermination.
-end quote -
Many people would agree that suffering or unhappiness is rooted in desire, that it consists of not getting what we want and getting what we do not want.
Happiness, in this view, is acquisition of all that we try to gain and security from all that we seek to avoid. The Buddha taught that this understanding of happiness is a mistake.
We can never achieve true and complete happiness in these terms, and there is another, far better form of happiness that we can achieve.
Obtaining what we are hoping to gain and safety from what we are trying to avoid will not bring us real happiness. This can only be achieved by a radical transformation of our desires and aversions and especially of our attitudes towards them, according to the Buddha.
-quote -
Third Noble Truth. Now this is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance on it.
-end quote -
True happiness in life, the opposite of suffering, is brought about by reaching a state in which, we eliminate many of our desires and stop clinging or attaching ourselves to all of them. The Buddha referred to this state with the term ‘Nirvana’.
And here we are offered a classic epistemological problem. On the one hand we have happiness, as we know it
and on the other hand there is a kind of happiness, as claimed by some fellow human being, which it the TRUE happiness, which for some reason he only knows or discovered while sitting under a tree some day.
How he knows, what I don’t know, I do not know, but I am told that I have to pray, meditate, perform special activities to discover that happiness too.
In one of this kind of philosophies - maybe a bit extreme - I am even promised 72 virgins, when I blow myself up in a crowded marketplace.
Rhank you ^_^
[13:17] herman Bergson: Y
[13:18] herman Bergson: T
[13:18] Debbie dB: ✧✩*❤*✩✧ G I G G L E S ✧✩*❤*✩
[13:18] herman Bergson: in other words thank you :-))
[13:18] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:18] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:18] Bejiita Imako: the suicide bombers philosophy i guess
The Discussion
[13:18] Qwark Allen: ::::::::: * E * X * C * E * L * L * E * N * T * ::::::::::
[13:18] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:18] Lizzy Pleides: Thank you Professor
[13:18] Gemma Allen: well sitting under a tree for 40 years should teach something
[13:18] Bejiita Imako: those guys are nuts for sure
[13:18] Gemma Allen: i guess
[13:18] Debbie dB: Thanks Herman. Pity you couldn’t tell us more about how Nirvanah feels :)
[13:18] Bejiita Imako: buddha is better
[13:19] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:19] herman Bergson: I just don't know Debbie :-)
[13:19] Lizzy Pleides: do you think herman has reached nirwana already Debbie?
[13:19] Gemma Allen: i don’t think he has tried
[13:19] Debbie dB: Oh well, Ill have to go and find a tree, and a cushion.
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: you never know with Herman ㋡
[13:20] ἀρετή: too attached to the suits... :)
[13:20] Ciska Riverstone: want one debbi? ;)
[13:20] herman Bergson: Besides that I have no idea why I should have the disire to get into Nirvana state, as it is required to have NO desires at all, which crave for happiness
[13:20] Debbie dB: I don’t think so Liz - he's new to eastern philosophy
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:20] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:21] Debbie dB: The question is will Nirvanah be so cool you would ignore your iPhone?
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:21] herman Bergson: this sounds like Nirvana talk :-))
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:21] Lizzy Pleides: maybe sometimes it makes you happy to have more bad desires, lol
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: hahaha
[13:21] herman Bergson smiles
[13:21] Qwark Allen: that way should be "nirvana"
[13:22] herman Bergson: good point Lizzy :-))
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:22] ἀρετή: so is Nirvana like a coma?
[13:22] herman Bergson: No...
[13:22] herman Bergson: my point is that someone say what TRUE happiness is, while I say...hmmm...I feel happy already
[13:22] Ciska Riverstone: (doesn't come with a tree i'm afraid debbie)
[13:22] Debbie dB: Certainly the part of letting go of attachments is good for us.
[13:23] Debbie dB: and thanks ciska for this clear view.
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: many things are discovered under a tree it seems, Newton did the same and discovered gravity
[13:23] herman Bergson: Everybody knows that wishing things you never can reach makes no sense
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: gravity
[13:23] Debbie dB: Herman, How happy are you?
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: indeed
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita...but that was already there
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: yes but no one gave gravity a thought before that
[13:24] herman Bergson: I don’t think you can quantify happiness...
[13:24] Ciska Riverstone: but qualify?
[13:24] Debbie dB: Agreed. but there is more and less happy?
[13:24] herman Bergson: indeed Bejiita...or the wrong thoughts
[13:24] Qwark Allen: seems we don`t know much more about gravity since then bej :-)))
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: no its hard but i’m happy when i feel good and motivated and have friends around me doing fun things together
[13:25] herman Bergson: That depends Debbie....
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: stuff like that
[13:25] herman Bergson: there is research in this matter
[13:25] herman Bergson: It seems that every individual has some kind of general state (of happiness)
[13:25] herman Bergson: that means....
[13:26] Debbie dB: Certainly riches don't bring happiness - they result in more stress, and the need for more work.
[13:26] herman Bergson: if you ask a person to score his feeling of happiness on a scale it will be most of the time the same score...
[13:26] herman Bergson: independent of his conditions...
[13:27] herman Bergson: one wins the lottery....another gets an accident which brings him in a wheelchair....
[13:27] Debbie dB: Oh amazing.
[13:27] herman Bergson: eventually...after a certain period it showed that both persons scored their happiness again as before
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: it normalizes
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: sort of
[13:28] herman Bergson: in the long run the man in the wheelchair wasn’t unhappier than he was before
[13:28] herman Bergson: yes Bekiita
[13:28] Debbie dB: So there is a kind of happiness level inside us, that can get driven up or down, but returns to normal with time?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Kind of ...like you have optimists and pessimists
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: i guess you have an "idle state" that you level to and when above it you feel extra happy and below you feels sad
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes Debbie...
[13:28] Gemma Allen: I think the idea of nirvana is much deeper than jiust a happiness as we are talking about it
[13:29] Gemma Allen: needs exploration
[13:29] herman Bergson: but why Gemma?
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: i go up and down around that state all time
[13:29] Gemma Allen: i mean the understanding of what it means to buddhists
[13:29] Debbie dB: So the buddha view is very enlightening - if we can let go of the things that cause us pain and stress, and focus on understanding, and love - we will be happier more often
[13:29] herman Bergson: It is a know fact that meditation influences our brainwaves
[13:29] Gemma Allen: takes lots of study to be a real buddhist
[13:30] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:30] Gemma Allen: oh
[13:30] Ciska Riverstone: yes debbie
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: aaa indeed
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: we would for sure
[13:30] herman Bergson: You don’t need Buddha to come to that conclusion, I would say, Debbie :-)
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: seems logical
[13:30] Debbie dB: I often sit in the lotus position and breath in rl ...
[13:30] Debbie dB: my boss thinks i’m nuts ;)
[13:31] ἀρετή: isn't it the goal for each to find their own buddha in themselves?
[13:31] Ciska Riverstone: it is very logical but it seems its difficult to do ;)
[13:31] herman Bergson: You also could say...when you behave more social an healthy you stay happier
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:31] Ciska Riverstone: at least for many people
[13:31] Gemma Allen: i look at the dalai lama's life
[13:31] Lizzy Pleides: we know that the state of happiness also depends of the saturation of micronutrients
[13:31] Gemma Allen: has been so sorrowful
[13:31] Gemma Allen: but he is a living example of happiness
[13:31] Ciska Riverstone: of course herman - but our societies say the contrary _ if you behave competitive you stay more happy and have more
[13:32] herman Bergson: Yes Ciska...
[13:32] Debbie dB: Competition to use everything as quickly as possible has to be a bad idea.
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:32] herman Bergson: And we all see what mistake that is ...
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: indeed but we are learned that its the other way around
[13:33] herman Bergson: the greed and competition have lead to the crisis we are in now
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: more and consumption buying lot of things all time and so on
[13:33] Gemma Allen: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:33] Gemma Allen: western thinking
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: money
[13:33] Debbie dB: And we so love it.
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: sure i’m happy with my new computer cause it works good, but still it s just a machine
[13:34] herman Bergson: Our prosperity may be a basis for hapiness...but how it is distributed makes it a source of unhappiness
[13:34] Gemma Allen: new movie where the hero falls in love with a machine
[13:34] Gemma Allen: Her
[13:34] herman Bergson: when rich people only get richer and poor only poorer
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: a very useful machine though that i can use to socialize with others
[13:34] Debbie dB: well, we don’t see the poverty much Herman. Its kind of out of sight mostly.
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: and that make me happy
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: not the machine itself
[13:35] herman Bergson: So...Buddha forces us to face the question: what is happiness
[13:36] ἀρετή: contentment?
[13:36] Debbie dB: I thought you guys were all inside my computer? That used to make me happy.
[13:36] herman Bergson: and...how to achieve it!
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:36] Lizzy Pleides: that was NSA only Debbie
[13:36] Debbie dB: happiness is the absence of pain and sadness.?
[13:36] ἀρετή: we had to break out of the box, Debbie :)
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:36] Debbie dB: ✧✩*❤*✩✧ G I G G L E S ✧✩*❤*✩
[13:36] Debbie dB: lizzy
[13:37] herman Bergson: Contentment might be a good concept here
[13:37] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:37] Gemma Allen: better word
[13:37] Debbie dB: It is a good word to describe the Buddha’s happiness.
[13:37] herman Bergson: I mean...I have an income, but I am not a millionair...but I am really content with my situation...
[13:38] Debbie dB: But a bad word to describe westerners happiness. We need MORE!
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: and more and more and mooooorre!
[13:38] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:38] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:38] herman Bergson: We are forced to believe that we want more...
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: and then all crashes down
[13:39] Lizzy Pleides: that is the basis of our economy
[13:39] herman Bergson: I really don’t know what I would want more at this moment....
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: i also have mostly all i need at moment
[13:39] herman Bergson: I don’t need a bigger house, bigger car, more money...faster computer, larger TV
[13:40] Debbie dB: Me too, but ill still buy a new pc, and a phone soon.
[13:40] herman Bergson: I need health :-)
[13:40] Gemma Allen: we all do
[13:40] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: i buy good things that are a bit future proof so they last very long
[13:40] Gemma Allen: wonders where everyone is today
[13:40] herman Bergson: Got it again now L-)
[13:40] Debbie dB: Well - its hard to be happy when you’re in pain.
[13:40] herman Bergson: Yes Debbie....
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: indeed
[13:41] herman Bergson: Bu tis makes no sense to expect that a personin pain should be able to feel happy
[13:41] Debbie dB: and death remains a looming stumbling block to eternal happiness ;)
[13:42] herman Bergson: That is a bit Buddha's problem....
[13:42] herman Bergson: does life end just like that or do we live for ever....
[13:42] herman Bergson: a solution for the suffering of death
[13:42] Debbie dB: we live for ever ;)
[13:43] herman Bergson: yes:-)
[13:43] herman Bergson: one way or the other will the atoms I am made of find a way to continue:-)
[13:43] Lizzy Pleides: of course
[13:43] Debbie dB: Look how many people live on in your grand museum. Captured forever in pixels.
[13:44] herman Bergson: only the "I" saying mechanism wont be there anymore :-)
[13:44] Gemma Allen: i missed the field trip
[13:44] Gemma Allen: darn
[13:44] Debbie dB: ha ha... maybe
[13:44] Gemma Allen: but i have been there before
[13:44] Debbie dB: I went there after the field trip.
[13:44] Debbie dB: ((nice work Prof))
[13:44] herman Bergson smiles
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:45] herman Bergson: thnx Debbie...
[13:45] Gemma Allen: it looks like a search for nirvana now that i think about it
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: loved that museum
[13:45] herman Bergson: SL nirvana is easily found.....
[13:45] Gemma Allen: true
[13:45] herman Bergson: just turn off your computer :-)
[13:45] Debbie dB: I love the sound and idea of the word... Nirvanah. It conjures up a peaceful thought.
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: gave me some inspiration for some art of my own i try make
[13:45] ἀρετή: wish it was that easy, Professor :)
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: yes indeed
[13:45] Lizzy Pleides: true
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: nirvana = peacefulness for me
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: means something like that
[13:46] herman Bergson: yes a nice word
[13:46] Debbie dB: I bet theres a drink called Nirvanah somewhere
[13:46] Gemma Allen: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:46] Debbie dB: probably a killer cocktail
[13:46] herman Bergson: But they also write it like "nibbana"
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: hahaha
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:47] herman Bergson: Depends whether they romanize Sanskrit or Pali
[13:47] ἀρετή: wow.. no kidding, there's really such a cocktail XD
[13:48] Gemma Allen: i am sure there is somewhere
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: i’m not surprised since there are cocktails called things like orgasm and god know what out there
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:48] herman Bergson: Then this is a good moment to conclude our discussion and make us a Nirvana cocktail :-)
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: just need to see whats in it
[13:48] herman Bergson: Thank you all again
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: nice as usual Herman ㋡
[13:48] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....:-)
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: cu soon
[13:49] Lizzy Pleides: Nirwana-Cocktail created by Jamie Boudreau. After a wonderful After Work Party this night this is the right drink before going to bed!
Ingredients
2 oz. Rye Whiskey
1 oz. Amer Picon
1/4 oz. Maraschino Liqueur
1/4 oz. Benedictine
Preparation
Stir all ingredients with ice in a mixing glass and strain into a cocktail glass. Garnish with an orange zest.
[13:49] Gemma Allen: http://www.sheknows.com/recipes/nirvana-cocktail
[13:49] Gemma Allen: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:49] herman Bergson: And now the recipe of the Nirvana coctail Aryen..plz :-))
[13:49] Gemma Allen: Yes-ah!
[13:49] Gemma Allen: sounds good
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: aaa ok
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: saving that
[13:49] herman Bergson: perfect ^_^
[13:49] Gemma Allen: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:49] ἀρετή: one of many... thanks to google ;) http://www.sheknows.com/recipes/nirvana-cocktail
[13:49] Qwark Allen: ::::::::: * E * X * C * E * L * L * E * N * T * ::::::::::
[13:49] Debbie dB: - theres so many menus for Nirvanah Cocktail. It will keep me busy.
[13:49] Debbie dB: ✧✩*❤*✩✧ G I G G L E S ✧✩*❤*✩
[13:49] Gemma Allen: hope to be here thursday
[13:49] Qwark Allen: as usual
[13:49] Qwark Allen: .-)
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: hehee
[13:49] Gemma Allen: Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:49] Gemma Allen: for now
[13:50] Qwark Allen: happy that i was here
[13:50] Qwark Allen: Hooooooo!!!!!!! \o/
[13:50] Qwark Allen: |
[13:50] Qwark Allen: / \
[13:50] Qwark Allen: ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
[13:50] Qwark Allen: Hoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: some event coming up Q?
[13:50] herman Bergson: See you all on Thursday again :-))
[[13:50] Qwark Allen: not today
[13:50] Debbie dB: Nice to see you all - and thanks for the lively chat, and great lecture.
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:50] Qwark Allen: still feeling not so well
[13:50] Lizzy Pleides: Good night everyone
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: cu thursday then ㋡
[13:50] Qwark Allen: ˜*•. ˜”*°•.˜”*°• Bye ! •°*”˜.•°*”˜ .•*˜ ㋡
[13:50] Debbie dB: yep.... byeeeeeeeeee
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: happy nirvana everyone!
[13:50] ἀρετή: get well soon, Qwark
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes
[13:50] ἀρετή: cheers ^^
[13:51] herman Bergson: Nice you could make it Debbie :-))
[13:51] ἀρετή: have a good rest of the day
[13:51] ἀρετή: Thanks for class again
[13:51] herman Bergson: My pleasure Aryen :-))
[13:51] ἀρετή: bye for now :)
[13:52] herman Bergson: Bye
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