"It is September the 5th...Welcome to Morning Joe...with us is... and we welcome to the table Mayor Pete Buttigieg....".
He is mayor of South Bend, Indiana since 2012 and presidential candidate for the Democrates and there seem to be some racial problems in his town with the police involved.
It happens that I have to discuss the same theme today too, but the difference is that Buttigieg deals in the 21st century with a relic from the 20th century.
This is not entirely correct. The relation beween the white and the black race has a much longer history,
but it was in the 20th century that this relation changed fundamentally, that is, in words and on paper primarily.
There are two countries in the world were racial segregation between black and white people has been substantial: the United States and South Africa.
If you look at the charts behind me, it is clear that in the US black people are a minority and in South Africa the white people are the minority.
An interesting detail is, that when you look at the pie-charts of South Africa in the period of 1911 to 2004 the white population decreased from 21% to 10%
But yet..."Ten percent of all South Africans — the majority white — owns more than 90 percent of national wealth,
according to a 2016 research paper by Anna Orthofer, a graduate student at Stellenbosch University.
Some 80 percent of the population — overwhelmingly black — owns nothing at all." (New York Times, Peter S. Goodman, Oct. 24, 2017)
The racial relations between black and white n the US is a different story in the 20th century. President Johnson's first public reference to the "Great Society"
took place during a speech to students on May 7, 1964, at Ohio University in Athens, Ohio. What was he referring to?
"The Great Society" was a set of domestic programs in the United States launched by Democratic him in 1964–65.
The main goal was the total elimination of poverty and racial injustice. The Great Society's programs expanded under the administrations of Republican Presidents Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford.
President Johnson mentioned in his speech the topics that Harrington, to whom I referred in the previous lecture, addressed too (i.e. poverty in the US).
But it is certain that in addition to the "deep background" of the Cold War, the racial issue, and especially the situation of black Americans was the most important issue that prompted him to make his speech about the Great Society.
ln 1966, twelve years had passed since the Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education of Topeka,
that racial segregation in schools was unconstitutional, a milestone that rejected the doctrine of "separate but equal".
Johnson realized that the results achieved since then in the living conditions of the black Americans were daunting.
In 1963 there were de facto more black Americans in segregated schools than in 1952. There were more black Americans unemployed than in 1954.
Even more serious, the average income of a black Americans had fallen from 57% of the average white Americans income in 1954 to 54% in 1966.
In 1963 Johnson understood that action had to be taken to prevent more problems.
Among the black Americans themselves, there was, as could be expected, a whole range of views on how to proceed.
Some were more in a hurry than others; some thought that violence was necessary, others thought that nonviolence would eventually yield more.
In March 1963, riots broke out in Birmingham, Alabama. These were nonviolent demonstration, where a 34 years old reverend was arrested: Martin Luther King Jr.
What is our situation now, in the US and South Africa, but increasingly in Western Europe too with its growing number of refugees?.
info:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/24/business/south-africa-economy-apartheid.html
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/buttigieg-race-is-something-we-need-to-deal-with-as-a-country-68236869611
https://www.economist.com/democracy-in-america/2019/09/04/why-pete-buttigieg-is-losing-momentum
The Discussion
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ww have the biggest rise of white nationalist parties here since the kKK
[13:22] herman Bergson: THe floor is yours....
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is kKK ?
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Ku Klux Klan
[13:23] herman Bergson: KU KLUX KLAN
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you
[13:23] Lai Fallen (laila.streeter) is online.
[13:23] herman Bergson: The guys in the white bedsheets
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some of these are the same anyway
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): without sheets
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the story sadly repeats
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and it has to end
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i recall about 3 or 4 years ago some one warned that z was happening
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and were a bigger threat than isis
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or taliban or any
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): home grown
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): terrorists
[13:24] herman Bergson: The rise of those white nationalist groups is within the 35% of the T-base, I guess, Gemma
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think so too
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa indeed what have happened just now lately, loners shooting and blowing people up with bombs
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): watch the polls lately and fingers crossed they are correct
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no warning at all before
[13:25] herman Bergson: So they may be large in numbers but not in percentages of the whole population
[13:25] CB Axel: The problem in the past, as I see it, was that everyone knew racism was bad. White supremacists kept quiet.
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no signs
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thta is true
[13:25] CB Axel: Now, with social media, they find other out there like themselves.
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): cb
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but are enabled
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): now
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes it was below the surface......
[13:26] CB Axel: And now we have a racist president, so that legitimizes them further.
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:26] CB Axel: I like knowing who the racists are.
[13:26] herman Bergson: just look at the numbers I mentioned regarding the period 1954 -1964
[13:26] CB Axel: It's just like how some stores in the US are banning people from openly carrying weapons into their stores.
[13:27] herman Bergson: A decline in all aspects....work, wages, education, etc for black people
[13:27] CB Axel: I'd rather see who's carrying a gun instead of letting people carry them concealed.
[13:27] CB Axel: Then I know who to avoid.
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well if i saw anyone in any store with a gun beside the police id be very worried but here only the police can carry weapons legally anywhere
[13:27] herman Bergson: Interesting point CB
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and hunters but they are restricted to the forest
[13:28] CB Axel: Me, too, Gejiita. I'd leave.
[13:28] CB Axel: and that's what store owners are worried about.
[13:28] CB Axel: People without guns will just leave the store.
[13:28] CB Axel: Without buying anything.
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why? cause they cant murder each other?
[13:28] CB Axel: Anyway, back to racism.
[13:28] herman Bergson: it is already bizar that someone except a police officer walks around with a gun
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha
[13:29] CB Axel: I like knowing who the racists are so I can avoid them.
[13:29] herman Bergson: We are not used to that in Europe....we are only inclined to racism :-)
[13:30] herman Bergson: I think one of the basic causes of the black/white racism is colonialism....
[13:30] CB Axel nods
[13:31] herman Bergson: The belief that WE, the Western culture , should bring civilization to those black countries
[13:31] CB Axel: And Christianity.
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks our founding fathers did really ot realize liberty with slavery ws not working
[13:31] herman Bergson: and to that, exploit them and their resources merciless
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): as real liberty
[13:31] CB Axel: Or was Christianity a means to the end?
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): did not that is
[13:32] herman Bergson: Might be so, CB
[13:32] CB Axel: Exploitation of their labor and their resources was probably the ultimate goal.
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): still is CB
[13:32] herman Bergson: I think so too
[13:33] CB Axel: True, Beertje.
[13:33] herman Bergson: and still is indeed
[13:33] herman Bergson: And it is so easily implemented.....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sadly yes
[13:33] herman Bergson: Just appeal to the WE vs. THEM gut feeling we have
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just go there, murder everyone and steal all resources
[13:34] herman Bergson: The idea that WE are superior is easily implanted in the white brains
[13:34] CB Axel: That's why I don't want to see us colonize Mars or the Moon. We messed up one planet, why do the same elsewhere.
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some think they can get away with anything
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its sad
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and after all were all same
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): because we can CB
[13:34] CB Axel: The only good thing about other planets is there is no life to speak of.
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): who knows
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we really don't
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and in the beginning we were all black, man comes from Africa
[13:35] CB Axel: Exactly, Bejiita.
[13:35] herman Bergson: But that was long ago and easily forgotten Bejiita
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's only a matter of pigment, we in Europe don't need that many pigment for we have not the burning sun, that's all
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and many who would NEVER believe it
[13:36] herman Bergson: One problem is the development of Western civilization.....that is a fact....
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed its just a protection mechanism
[13:36] herman Bergson: Nowhere in the world has happened the same
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): + it looks good
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i wish i was a bit darker at least
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i'm as white as a milk bottle:)
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): almost here
[13:37] CB Axel: Dead fish belly white.
[13:37] herman Bergson: What you see today is that every culture uses Western developed science and technology...look at China
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol CB
[13:38] CB Axel: But gunpowder came from China.
[13:38] CB Axel: And pasta.
[13:38] CB Axel: I'm grateful for the pasta.
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): me too
[13:38] CB Axel: The gunpowder? Not so much.
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:38] herman Bergson: It had a great culture and science indeed......
[13:38] Lai Fallen (laila.streeter) is offline.
[13:38] herman Bergson: like the Arabs had too....
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): math comes from the arabs
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ancient history is so interesting
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the numbers we use
[13:39] herman Bergson: question is...why did the development stop, while it flourished in Europe all the time?
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Algebra is an arab word
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wonder too
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe it's the religion?
[13:39] herman Bergson: yes, it is :-)
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that stopt it
[13:39] herman Bergson: No...not religion....
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess it have to be, like how Khomeini threw Iran back into the stone age and its still stuck there with sharia laws and women opression
[13:40] herman Bergson: religion was stopped in Europe by science
[13:40] CB Axel: No. Religion tends to stop progress.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:40] herman Bergson: Iran has nuclear industry Bejiita
[13:40] herman Bergson: Not exactly stone age toys
[13:41] CB Axel: They are only emotionally in the stone age.
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but everyone think its just for making nukes
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes CB
[13:41] CB Axel: With their attitudes toward power and women.
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but yes they have a few power stations i think and indeed these are high tech stuff
[13:41] herman Bergson: that is what I mean Bejiita
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): let us remember that nukes started in Europe
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but it's not for the benefit of the people
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): IN Germany
[13:42] herman Bergson: true
[13:42] herman Bergson: Everything started in Europe..... regarding sciences
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): YES
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and we need more nuclear power id say, only that can create enough constant demand power, although solar cell battery combos exist today these are mostly for domestic only use, not for driving server halls, factories ect that need sometime to operate 24/7
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): server halls never shut down
[13:43] CB Axel: Didn't the Chinese use gunpowder for things like fireworks and not for blowing each other up?
[13:43] herman Bergson: They also used it in weapons CB
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well thinks they may have cheated yes
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it started with fireworks i think
[13:43] CB Axel: Ah. OK.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i think they realized early the destructive power too
[13:43] CB Axel: I figured it took Europeans to start killing with it.
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well we in usa grabbed the scientists fast
[13:44] herman Bergson: Yes for in the military in China it never was a big thing.....
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): explosives can be used for but good and bad, and yes i know how to use but guns and explosives
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and so did Russia
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): every invention can be used for bad things
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but i would never harm anyone with them
[13:44] herman Bergson: Europe started building cannons....
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i jut want a nice bang and so
[13:44] CB Axel: Gemma, Germany frightened them away.
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:44] CB Axel: Many were Jewish.
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): this was at the end of the war
[13:44] herman Bergson: But the point is....all this gave the white the belief that they are better than others
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:45] herman Bergson: And it leaves us with the question......why did this develop among whites and not among Chinese or Arab people
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well questions that too
[13:46] CB Axel: Arabs were good at taking over land from others.
[13:46] CB Axel: They spread well into Europe>
[13:46] CB Axel: .
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): China went after Japan
[13:46] CB Axel nods
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): way back
[13:46] herman Bergson: Maybe I should study Yuval Noah Harari some more
[13:47] CB Axel: Asians even crossed the Bering land bridge into the Americas.
[13:47] herman Bergson: His book SAPIENS, A brief history of Mankind
[13:47] CB Axel: They didn't have to conquer other humans, though.
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i have that book
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no???
[13:48] herman Bergson: Got it here too ^_^
[13:48] CB Axel: No what, Gemma?
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): they didn't have to battle humans??
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not sure about that either
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): does it have to be the climate?....in Europe it's not hot, maybe that's the key?
[13:49] herman Bergson: If they were the first in Alaska, no, I would say Gemma :-)
[13:49] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje, there have to be favorable climate condition....I think so too
[13:49] CB Axel: There were no humans in the Americas before Asians came across.
[13:50] CB Axel: Genetic testing has shown the native Americans are of Asian descent.
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa ok
[13:51] herman Bergson: Well...as usual we are left with a lot of questions.......
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:52] herman Bergson: but sadly we must conclude that we inherited nothing with respect to racism in a positive sense of the 20th century.....in my opinion
[13:52] herman Bergson whispers: Nevertheless I wish you a colorful weekend :-)
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same to u Herman
[13:53] herman Bergson: And thank you for your participation again......
[[13:53] CB Axel: You, too, Herman.
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu around all
[13:53] CB Axel: Happy weekend, everyone.
[13:53] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:53] CB Axel: Bye
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): now to host fishing
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
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