There is a strange side to the way we often think about ourselves. We were able to see that clearly in the previous project The Pessimist".
If you accidentally have forgotten what I mean, let me summarize it for you in a few words.
Some people tend to believe that everything used to be better. Everything was once beautiful and harmonious, now the sadness is everywhere.
Others want us to believe, that this beautiful song of prosperity cannot last. Just 'wait and see.
We will soon be crossing some critical threshold, after which we will dive straight into the abyss.
Or they claim that World history is one of eternal return. Fat years and lean years alternate with each other,
just like war and peace, and the human condition always remains the same. Don't expect too much of it.
The Western European Enlightenment thinkers believed that mankind could improve his own destiny by gathering better and better knowledge of the world,
that progress is not a matter of historical necessity, but of diligent human work.
Forget it. We run and run, but we don't get a step further, just like hamsters in a treadmill.
I often wonder why people are so easily inclined to think negative about themselves, in their private situation and in a general antropological sense
Maybe it is our knowledge that we can succeed and fail and our inclination to zoom in more emphatically on our failures than our successes.
A second observation is that most of the dominating religions describe man primarily as a loser.
Just think of that couple of losers in Paradise with whom it all began, not able to leave an apple alone.
In Islam man is nothing without Allah and his divine will.
And the few moments we are successful it is not us, who did it. No, we did it thanks to god's grace and help of the gods. We prayed for it.
It is time to change our attitude and the Dutch historian Rutger Bregman will show us the way this time.
Let me quote him at the start of this project:
-QUOTE- This is a (Project) about a radical idea. It is an idea that has scared the rulers for centuries.
What religions and ideologies have turned against. Of which the media rarely report and history seems to be one long denial.
At the same time, it is an idea that is substantiated in almost every field of science.
That is supported by evolution and confirmed by everyday life.
An idea that ties in so much with human nature that it often doesn't even stand out.
If we had the courage to take it seriously, it would seem: this idea could trigger a revolution. Turning society upside down.
If it really penetrates you, it is even a life-changing medicine, which means that you will never again look at the world in the same way.
The idea in question?
Most people are OK.
Thank you for your attention......
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019
The Discussion
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:16] herman Bergson: yes let it sink in :-)
[13:17] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the idea is that most people are ok?
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:17] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita...but look at your government....at the officials....what is their approach.....?
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not so ok
[13:18] herman Bergson: All people are frauds...
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): same here in the Netherlands
[13:18] herman Bergson: You have to check them, have them fill out forms to let them prove they are not fraudulent...or what is th eword
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa that sort of stuff
[13:19] herman Bergson: Here in the Netherlands we had a huge scandal....
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like they checked my bank account for money laundering while at same times the laundromats from russia and around there poured laundered money into the same banks leading to a huge scandal
[13:20] herman Bergson: based on the assumption that people are committing fraud....which was not the case at all
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with no control what so ever
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): from the banks
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but me they should check
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): threatening to terminate my account otherwise
[13:21] herman Bergson: So..it is a basic attitude.....to assume that the other is cheating and committing fraud [13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well of course they don't know wo I am ( I could be a mafia boss for sure but what is the probability of that really)
[13:21] herman Bergson: It's a relict of the believe that we are all sinners by nature
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but since they can't get to know ever single person they (as we say here in sweden) pulls everyone over the same comb
[13:22] herman Bergson: The bible teaches us that we are sinners and have to do our best to do something good...we evben may succeed if we are lucky...
[13:23] herman Bergson: yes Bejiita
[13:23] herman Bergson: And imagine that the basic idea of the bible had been that we were all good by nature and now and then unfortunately make mistakes....
[13:23] herman Bergson: what religion would we have had then?
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): people would have smiled more
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:24] herman Bergson: I'd say so too Beertje :-)
[13:25] herman Bergson: but it is a basic rule of psychology.....
[13:25] herman Bergson: just ell the person that he does everything wrong......
[13:25] herman Bergson: and then tell him....wow....that you did well.....here is the reward...
[13:25] herman Bergson: that is how to control people
[13:26] herman Bergson: We are all sinners and the reverend tells us how we can be less sinners :-)
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its about getting everything for yourself and show everyone else down the drain by telling them they are worthless liars and assholes
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like the bank directors make sure they can shower in champagne in their luxury apartments
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and even worse, dudes like Trump Putin and Erdogan
[13:28] herman Bergson: so...we have to find evidence that this point of view is wrong....
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its about power
[13:28] herman Bergson: we have to turn the tables.....
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:28] herman Bergson: Oh yes Bejiita...
[13:29] herman Bergson: Downplay the other and you are in power over him
[13:29] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman got to run - have a good night all ㋡ ( or day)
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki Ciska
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu
[13:29] herman Bergson: Eventually it is about a positive belief in mankind
[13:31] herman Bergson: So...that is what ahead of us.....hope you like the idea :-)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:31] herman Bergson whispers: thnks for the cheering :-)
[13:31] CB Axel: You're going to make us believe in the good of mankind?
[13:31] herman Bergson: Gonna give it a try, CB :-)
[13:31] CB Axel: :)
[13:32] herman Bergson: Ok....has to be with documents and witnesses ,,,, to prove my point :-))
[13:32] herman Bergson: otherwise it is a sham project :-))
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): try to make us believe that Herman, i don't right now
[13:33] herman Bergson picks up the glove and accepts the challenge
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i hope you win :)
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:34] herman Bergson: We'll see...but you know...I am an optimist :-))
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok try me on krump, im on!
[13:35] CB Axel: I do think most people start out good. They get corrupted, though.
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:35] herman Bergson: that is Rousseau, CB :-)
[13:35] herman Bergson: Culture corrupts...we should stay pure and natural :-)
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well no one is born evil I think, but however we are born with a personality
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): some people gets more aggressive the others genetically maybee
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no idea but
[13:37] herman Bergson: true Bejiita, but we shouldn't look at deviating individual people here but at society as a whole...
[13:37] herman Bergson: Take traffic.....
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:38] herman Bergson: what do we learn about it....? The number of accidents....
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): road rage, aggressive/drunk driving
[13:38] herman Bergson: but they don't tell that 96% of all cars on the roads travel without accidents....millions of cars
[13:39] Ciska Riverstone is offline.
[13:39] herman Bergson: there...you give the perfect example....you immediately mention misbehavior, Bejiita
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): most indeed drive properly and carefully including about everyone around me and that make me feel safe on the road, all seem to know both the risks and rules, then we ave the ocassonal idiot
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but they are few indeed
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so I feel safe on the roads in general
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when im out rolling
[13:39] herman Bergson: That is how we are educated....we LOVE tv programs about car crashes and policing on the roads...
[13:40] herman Bergson: Showing for an hour how smooth traffic flows is soooooo boring.....
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and watching dashcam videos of Russians crashing all over youtube picturing russians as totally careless drivers in general
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): crash boooom bang
[13:41] herman Bergson: lol...I love those youtube movies Bejiita :-)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehee
[13:41] herman Bergson: They drive like idiots
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they are not careless about everything,, they care about wodka:)
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well they have given me some "but what the hell are you doing!" moments
[13:42] CB Axel: Really? I think watching cars moving on a road, merging into traffic, changing lanes, acting like a fluid is a little interesting.
[13:42] CB Axel: I wish I had studied fluid dynamics.
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe aaah yes
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that can be true indeed
[13:42] herman Bergson: Bu tif you go with that flow, you would think that all Russia is one big car crash junk yard....which is NOT the case
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:43] CB Axel: As for crazy drivers and crazy traffic, Italy looks to be totally insane. :)
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): looking like after ive played a round of GTA (colecting cars in a heap and blowing them up)
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:43] herman Bergson: ok....next time I'll search for Italian dash cams :-))
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe ok
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or Paris crasshcams:)
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): dash cams
[13:44] CB Axel: Just stand on the side of a street in an Italian city and imagine trying to walk across.
[13:44] herman Bergson: DON'T!!!!
[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
[13:44] herman Bergson: ^_^
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahah
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well can be sort of chaotic all time I guess and everyone going BEEEEEEEEEPPPP BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP!
[13:45] herman Bergson: I guess the goal of our new project is clear.....
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:46] herman Bergson: Let's see how far we can get.....^_^
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sure
[13:46] herman Bergson: If all questions and remarks are exhausted...let's dismiss class :-)
[13:46] herman Bergson: Thank you all again...:-))
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: nice positive project :-) thank you Herman and class!
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki now im gonna continue developing my Trump dance and drive Mr trump mad with it
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:47] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman. See you Thursday.
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman:)
[13:47] herman Bergson: Good luck Bejiita :-)
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: lol Bejiita :-) have fun
[13:47] herman Bergson: See you, CB :-)
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu thursday (if im not on dance workshop that day, there is one that day too and a bit later but I tink ill make it)
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): don't break your legs tonight
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ill try
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)
[13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-)
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I mean can be tricky to make Trump mad (or not probably)
[13:48] herman Bergson: Stay in one piece Bejiita ...don't krumble :-)
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): heheh
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hugs all
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bye for now
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he is mad easily
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