Wednesday, December 7, 2022

1034: The Story extended...

 It was my plan to lead you through the historical development of the philosophy of materialism and then end with a clarification of why I find it the most reasonable explanation of the human condition.

   

But you may have noticed that I have changed the order. At this moment we are in the middle of describing an understanding of what it means to be human, to belong to the species homo sapiens.

  

I'll continue on this path and use the history of materialism as a philosophy to present to you arguments, which makes this view on homo sapiens plausible and even more plausible than other views if you allow me the audacity.

   

What makes me wonder at this stage is how all kinds of people, I mean, reverends, psychiatrists, psychologists, and so on talk about man, about what he is and what he can, will, or must feel.

  

Let's dig into this step by step. In the first place, materialism is, or maybe was, if you allow me some wishful thinking, an unpopular philosophy. 

  

The reason is that the human brain has created so many much more attractive narratives about man. We love these stories. Remember how our current theme started? 

  

I brought to your attention the thesis that religions and conspiracy theories have a lot in common: they are both based on unproven and unprovable assertions. But yet a lot of people want to believe these theories and religions.

   

What always has made me wonder is the belief that man is so special, such an exceptional being on this planet. Let me give you an example, a quote from a psychiatrist in an article about depression.


 “If it is real, then, what it comes down to it, we are a mystery. If you really knew me, I would be unknowable. That is a frustration, but also a great relief. The phenomenon of man is a mystery, and, if you like, of divine order and beauty.” -end quote-

   

Then I think: we aren't a mystery at all. As I said in a previous lecture, we have to be able to accept the fact

  

 that we don't know a lot of things. By the way, you'll understand that I certainly don't agree with the idea that we are of a divine order.

    

We simply have to accept the fact, that we have a mind, that this mind is 100% related to the existence of the brain, and that the working of this brain in many cases is related to hormones like endorphins, dopamine, adrenaline, and so on.

   

We know that there is a relation between our physical brain, what it produces, namely a Mind, and that it is the engine behind our behavior. 

 

What we don't know is, how a material brain can produce, generate, and make emerge what we call a mind, a person.

   

Then, what are we really? We are members of the animal kingdom of this planet. Biologically we don't differ from any other primate, except with respect to the brain in our head. 

   

And with this brain, the "trouble" begins. It, actually, disconnects us from our roots and has enabled us to believe in the makeability of the world. And that is what we are working on every day indeed.

   

Don't misread me. What this mind is able to produce is really fantastic. Let's not start the petty discussion, that homo sapiens does also bad things.

  

What is more interesting is the question, of how homo sapiens is able to achieve all this. To say it in a few words: The awareness of Space, Time and Causality.

   

I know: the first term should be self-consciousness, but that is precisely the thing we don't know how,  although it absolutely does, connects to the physical brain.

  

Today I'll add two other products of the mind to these three factors: Expectations and Hope. So, the awareness of S + T + C + E + H = homo sapiens.

   

Just for fun and to add to the stories we love to believe in: if you mix those characters they form the word CHEST and that is where it all comes from according to the Ancient Greeks: our heart.

   

Thank you for your attention again....


Main Sources:

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition

Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
 http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm
R.G. Brown/J. Layman, "Materialism", Routledge (2019)


TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------  


  1 - 100 Philosophers                         9 May 2009  Start of

  2 - 25+ Women Philosophers                       10 May 2009  this blog

  3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking                       10 May 2009

  4 - Modern Theories of Ethics                       29 Oct  2009

  5 - The Ideal State                                               24 Febr 2010   /   234

  6 - The Mystery of the Brain                                  3 Sept 2010   /   266

  7 - The Utopia of the Free Market                       16 Febr 2012    /   383

  8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism                      5 Sept 2012   /   413

  9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist                             6 Nov  2012   /   426                        

10  - Non-Western Philosophy                               29 May 2013    /   477

11  -  Why Science is Right                                      2 Sept 2014   /   534      

12  - A Philosopher looks at Atheism                        1 Jan  2015   /   557

13  - EVIL, a philosophical investigation                 17 Apr  2015   /   580                

14  - Existentialism and Free Will                             2 Sept 2015   /   586         

15 - Spinoza                                                             2 Sept 2016   /   615

16 - The Meaning of Life                                        13 Febr 2017   /   637

17 - In Search of  my Self                                        6 Sept 2017   /   670

18 - The 20th Century Revisited                              3 Apr  2018    /   706

19 - The Pessimist                                                  11 Jan 2020    /   819

20 - The Optimist                                                     9 Febr 2020   /   824

21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream                8 Oct  2020   /   872

22 - A World Full of Patterns                                    1 Apr 2021    /   912

23 - The Concept of Freedom                                  8 Jan 2022    /   965



The Discussion


[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:22] oola Neruda: remember that one we discussed the other day... fear

[13:22] herman Bergson: I know, oola

[13:22] oola Neruda: is it instinct or... just stupidity

[13:23] herman Bergson: The basic drive to avoid pain and achieve pleasure

[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): fear can save our lives

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:23] herman Bergson: it always has Beertje

[13:24] herman Bergson: That counts for every animal

[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but fear is related to expectations?

[13:24] oola Neruda: good point

[13:24] herman Bergson: yes...

[13:25] herman Bergson: on e the one hand you look for food and on the other hand you look out ofr enemies

[13:26] herman Bergson: You are on your way to expect to find food and you are also on high aert for danger, predators

[13:26] oola Neruda: it almost feels like a sideline... but joy should fit in there somewhere

[13:26] herman Bergson: I just have to look at the birds in my garden....

[13:28] herman Bergson: You are a pretty dull group of people :-)))))

[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): dull fits here too :))

[13:28] herman Bergson: No one of you stands up and claim anything spiritual or the like :-)

[13:28] oola Neruda: what about generosity... that could be complex

[13:29] herman Bergson: You all seem to agree with me??????

[13:29] oola Neruda: Buddah would or would not

[13:29] herman Bergson: He is not here....so?

[13:29] oola Neruda: it's a way of thinking.... a philosophy

[13:30] herman Bergson: I don't agree with buddhism because it also implies believing in something spiritual

[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well

[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what's wrong in believing in something spiritual?

[13:31] oola Neruda: The basic drive to avoid pain and achieve pleasure

[13:31] herman Bergson: THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION Beertje

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess sop

[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so3

[13:31] herman Bergson: Let's look at Beertje's question....

[13:32] herman Bergson: The first aspect....what is WRONG....with.....

[13:32] oola Neruda: define spiritual

[13:32] herman Bergson: this 'wrong' implies a question for norms...standards to decide what is allowed and what not

[13:32] herman Bergson: no no oola...wait

[13:33] herman Bergson: so...there philosophy begins....

[13:33] herman Bergson: what is wrong with....?

[13:33] herman Bergson: So, Beertje....

[13:34] herman Bergson: Do you know some norm/standard that could decide your question?

[13:34] herman Bergson: Your question assumes that believing in something spiritual is OK

[13:35] herman Bergson: Don't take  it personal...this is just a logical analysis of your question :-)

[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i felt that you are negative in believing in something spiritual, that's why I asked the question, what's wrong with that

[13:36] herman Bergson: ok...clear....

[13:36] oola Neruda: i agree

[13:36] oola Neruda: choosing kindness for example

[13:37] herman Bergson: As I said before...homo sapiens is quite willing to believe in all kinds of narratives based on unproven and unprovable assumptions....

[13:37] oola Neruda: a mother and her child.... it comes naturally

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we have many different sides

[13:38] herman Bergson: You could 'attack' me on this point by showing me that I only want to believe in provable facts......and then you can say...what method of prove should be acceptable...and so on

[13:39] oola Neruda: i can prove the mother child thing

[13:39] herman Bergson: And yes..I still am quite skeptical about believing in spiritual things ^_^

[13:40] oola Neruda: generosity ...

[13:40] oola Neruda: is where this started

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm well indeed spiritual stuff is not proven, but what about things like meditation, that can be nice for ex and we want nice things

[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's your choice, other people feel safe in believing in spiritual things

[13:40] herman Bergson: I'd go even further...all that spritiual babble is nonsense

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and meditation often go together with well spiritual stuff

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its a complicated concept

[13:41] herman Bergson: Good point Beertje....It is my CHOICE

[13:41] herman Bergson: now take this....

[13:41] herman Bergson: there are facts and believes...

[13:41] herman Bergson: You can believe things that are contrary to facts...

[13:42] herman Bergson: then you can say...well that is your choice....

[13:42] herman Bergson: Now look at the US....

[13:42] herman Bergson: there is a person who believes the elections were corrupt...

[13:42] herman Bergson: the facts show that this was not the case...

[13:43] herman Bergson: but what do you say....?

[13:43] oola Neruda: HE is corrupt

[13:43] herman Bergson: Saying the elections were corrupt, believing that is just your choice you are entitled to?

[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Oola

[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he can say and believe that, but bother other people with his choice is wrong

[13:44] herman Bergson: We are not discussing this person....we are discussing the logic of believes and choices

[13:44] oola Neruda: agree

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed

[13:45] herman Bergson: How can someone say things and claiming them to be true, while the facts show the opposite, Beertje?

[13:45] herman Bergson: Happens with all kinds of religions too

[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he doesn't believe the opposite, he only believes himself

[13:46] herman Bergson: We prayed for the poor fellow and the Lord will help him........and yet he died...oops

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Well if u are a stubborn gigant baby behaving like a crying kid in a store when he is not allowed candy from mom

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not much helps in that case

[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so that one we can shovel aside

[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: it's a kind of belief. whether it is a god, buddha or a spirit in my house

[13:47] oola Neruda: the thing is, I really think he knows it is wrong... but is greedy and will do anything... even against his own knowledge...

[13:48] herman Bergson: What someone believes does not justify what he believes , and certainly not  making it have consequences for others

[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true

[13:48] herman Bergson: As I said before...I am not discussing a specific person....I am discussing manifest social behavior in general

[13:49] herman Bergson: If I believe that all black people are assholes which allows me to beat them up...is that ok because I believe so?

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or all the nazis in Ukarine?

[13:50] herman Bergson: If I believe the elections were corrupt so the Constitution should be set aside...is that ok, just because I believe so contrary to the facts?

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it has more to do with EGO than with believes

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:51] herman Bergson: so..back to the starting point....

[13:51] herman Bergson: what is wrong with believing in something spiritual?

[13:52] oola Neruda: I brought to your attention the thesis that religions and conspiracy theories have a lot in common: they are both based on unproven and unprovable assertions. But yet a lot of people want to believe these theories and religions.

[13:52] herman Bergson: simple answer...the belief is based on thin air....not on facts....

[13:52] herman Bergson: Objection: Who decides here what are FACTS

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the one who can prove them

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): scientifically

[13:53] herman Bergson: and then I say....matter

[13:53] herman Bergson: right, Bejiita

[13:53] herman Bergson: and in a more liberal way....laws, numbers, common sense

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (now i just need to build a particle accelerator that can detect ghosts)

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but i don't think id find any

[13:54] herman Bergson: See you next week with the results, Bejiita ^_^

[13:54] herman Bergson: I guess you better us UNREAL 5.1 for it :-)

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed as said would probably be an impossible challenge

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): THAT i can create ghosts with easily though!

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just using their Niagara particle effects system, but thats just 1 and 0

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): virtual ghosts

[13:55] herman Bergson: Well, Beeertje...what are your thoughts at the moment?

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): those are possible but real ones not soo much i think

[13:55] oola Neruda: my last remark was a repeat of what Herman said earlier

[13:56] herman Bergson: Indeed oola :-)

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): smiles.....everyone can believe what he or she wants, just don't bother other paople with it

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): don't try shovel your non proven beliefs down someone else's throat

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as many do

[13:57] oola Neruda: not just anything.... some people are violent or ...worse

[13:57] herman Bergson: Hmmm...sounds good, but I have my doubts about such a stand....

[13:57] herman Bergson: homo sapiens is a social animal...he wants, needs to interact with other animals to stay sane....

[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he can..but believes are personal

[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i actually did a fun experiment when meeting some christians here in my city and said "prove it to me" he immediatley went a bit uneasy don't knowing what to say

[13:58] herman Bergson: How can you uphold believes which will be ignored by everybody else...

[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): as a strong person I can

[13:59] herman Bergson smiles

[13:59] bergfrau Apfelbaum: about where there are no facts, they don't need to talk until there are facts:-)

[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true

[13:59] herman Bergson: You are one of a kid Beertje, but I understand what you mean :-))

[14:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there is only 1 Beertje and that's enough

[14:00] herman Bergson: Begrie you almost quoted Wittgenstein's last thesis

[14:00] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje..two of you I couldn't handle ^_^

[14:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): grins

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[14:01] herman Bergson: Well, my friends.....

[14:01] herman Bergson: let's cool down our brains again....

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wow time flies

[14:01] herman Bergson: Thank you for the debate....

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

[14:01] bergfrau Apfelbaum: it was very interesting again! thank you Herman and class

[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes

[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you for this lecture

[14:02] herman Bergson: Class dismissed....

[14:02] bergfrau Apfelbaum: When are Christmas holidays?

[14:02] herman Bergson: in a week or so, Bergie

[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa

[14:02] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ok

[14:02] herman Bergson: or do you want holidays now already?

[14:03] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): no let's wait a bit

[14:03] bergfrau Apfelbaum: no no was just a question

[14:04] herman Bergson: ok :-)

[14:04] oola Neruda: be well all.... poof

[14:04] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): goodnight Ool

[14:04] herman Bergson: Maybe coming Thursday last class before Xmas?

[14:04] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): a

[14:04] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Oola:-)

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