1035: Let it be Christmas....

x````````````````cz                                                                                                                     

                                                                                                        w        w                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 One of the objections against materialism and consequently the idea, that homo sapiens is a part of nature, or stated in other words, is member of the fauna of this planet, admitted, as an exceptional member, is:

     

homo sapiens is more than just an exceptional animal. Being human transcends the material reality. 

    

Just look what man has created, especially in science and arts. No other creature on this planet is able to do so.

     

Wikipedia says it in a more elegant way: "Humans (Homo sapiens) are the most abundant and widespread species of primate, characterized by bipedalism and exceptional cognitive skills due to a large and complex brain. 

     

This has enabled the development of advanced tools, culture, and language. Humans are highly social and tend to live in complex social structures 

     

composed of many cooperating and competing groups, from families and kinship networks to political states. 

       

Social interactions between humans have established a wide variety of values, social norms, and rituals, which bolster human society. 

     

Its intelligence and its desire to understand and influence the environment and to explain and manipulate phenomena have motivated humanity's development of science, philosophy, mythology, religion, and other fields of study." -end quote-

      

This is an eloquent way of telling us that homo sapiens really differs from the rest of nature due to his MIND.

    

The description I have given so far of man is, that it is a being conscious of space, time and causality and their interrelationships. 

   

The fundamental motive behind all his action is the same as that of all living organisms on this planet: reproduction and survival.

  

If we rewrite the terms "reproduction and survival" we also could call them expectations and hope.

    

We expect to continue our existence and say "she is pregnant and expecting a child and we hope for a better future for the newborn".

       

This may be basic biology which applies to all living organisms on this planet, but the big question mark is our MIND. It is like gravity. We know it exists, we know that it must be caused by the material existence of this globe.

      

We see a stone fall. Ok, we say, the object is pulled towards the earth, But this mysterious gravity goes much further. They say that the moon is within the sphere of the gravitational pull of the earth. That is why it is still there.

      

There are all kinds of theories, but just like the mind, we have an earth and gravitation, no mass no gravitational pull. We have a physical brain and the mind, no physical brain no mind. 

     

What we simple don't know is how these physical phenomena are related and how these special features emerge from the physical reality.

      

What we may be sure of, based on this materialist perspective, is, that EVERY thought on this planet has been and will be produced by this mind. 

     

Whatever theory, religion or fairytale we want to believe in, it is the product of this physical brain.

     

Science is the method of survival. We have to test all stories and statements to ensure we can say, they will help us to survive as a species on this earth.

     

We already have seen all kinds of complex philosophical theories about whatever you like. They are meaningful and fascinating within their contexts. You could call it culture.

     

But from a biological point of view, why produces homo sapiens art, music, literature. Isn't that way beyond the gross world? Isn't here homo sapiens in touch with higher spheres?

     

I have a simpler explanation. When you deprive a living organism of all sensory stimuli, it will go crazy and die. 

    

The complexer the central nervous system of the organism, the greater the need of external stimuli.

      

Homo sapiens is a creative organism because he craves the stimulation of his central nervous system. We have all kinds of fine theories about art and culture, I know, and you can accuse me of simplism,

    

but despite of all these interesting theories and philosophies it is just us, here on this planet with our brain/mind unless you can prove empirically that there is more.

     

Soon it will be Christmas again and the angels will sing again "Peace on earth and joy to the world". I guess they must have a soar throat by now......

   

Thank you for your attention again. Let's go for a holidays break. 

  

In January I'll introduce you in the historical development of materialist thinking, in which you may find some confirmation of what I have told you so far.....

Let me add this thought, that just occurred to me,  to finish. I was just thinking, if you look at religions or ideologies, what they have in common is that they all offer some father figure, a god or a great leader.

   

What can we conclude from that? My conclusion is, that up to now  the brain has evolved to a stage of childhood. It still needs a parent, a father, longs for him. It still hasn't evolved into adulthood. We need some more centuries for that.

   

This was just a thought...^_^...thank you

Main Sources:

MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition

Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995

http://www.iep.utm.edu/

 http://plato.stanford.edu/contents.htm

R.G. Brown/J. Layman, "Materialism", Routledge (2019)

TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------  

  1 - 100 Philosophers                         9 May 2009  Start of

  2 - 25+ Women Philosophers                       10 May 2009  this blog

  3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking                       10 May 2009

  4 - Modern Theories of Ethics                       29 Oct  2009

  5 - The Ideal State                                               24 Febr 2010   /   234

  6 - The Mystery of the Brain                                  3 Sept 2010   /   266

  7 - The Utopia of the Free Market                       16 Febr 2012    /   383

  8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism                      5 Sept 2012   /   413

  9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist                             6 Nov  2012   /   426                        

10  - Non-Western Philosophy                               29 May 2013    /   477

11  -  Why Science is Right                                      2 Sept 2014   /   534      

12  - A Philosopher looks at Atheism                        1 Jan  2015   /   557

13  - EVIL, a philosophical investigation                 17 Apr  2015   /   580                

14  - Existentialism and Free Will                             2 Sept 2015   /   586         

15 - Spinoza                                                             2 Sept 2016   /   615

16 - The Meaning of Life                                        13 Febr 2017   /   637

17 - In Search of  my Self                                        6 Sept 2017   /   670

18 - The 20th Century Revisited                              3 Apr  2018    /   706

19 - The Pessimist                                                  11 Jan 2020    /   819

20 - The Optimist                                                     9 Febr 2020   /   824

21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream                8 Oct  2020   /   872

22 - A World Full of Patterns                                    1 Apr 2021    /   912

23 - The Concept of Freedom                                  8 Jan 2022    /   965

The Discussion

[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:19] Let me add this thought, that just occurred to me,  to finish. I was just thinking, if you look at religions or ideologies, what they have in common is that they all offer some father figure, a god or a great leader.

[13:19]    

[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fine ending to the issue

[13:19] What can we conclude from that? My conclusion is, that up to now  the brain has evolved to a stage of childhood. It still needs a parent, a father, longs for him. It still hasn't evolved into adulthood. We need some more centuries for that.

[13:19]     

[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hmmm

[13:19] This was just a thought...^_^...thank you....

[13:19]    

[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so you still do believe in evolution continuing

[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in humans

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): evolution doesn't stop

[13:20] herman Bergson: it is still happening in nature Gemma

[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes, I believe that

[13:21] herman Bergson: birds get shorter beaks because of changing food conditions for instance

[13:21] herman Bergson: and there are more examples

[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and move to new areas because of climate change

[13:21] herman Bergson: that is just behavioral change....

[13:21] theo Velde is online.

[13:22] herman Bergson: evolution applies to physical change of the organism....and that is still happening

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i meant that several times during different presentations you sort of suggested you did nto believe that humans were really going to evolve

[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): much more

[13:23] herman Bergson: If so, you are witnessing progressive insight on my part, I guess :-))

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:23] herman Bergson: evolution, perhaps?

[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very good

[13:23] Al Michigan: whaabout devolution?

[13:23] herman Bergson: yes what about it all...throw a bone

[13:24] herman Bergson: What about pervolution? :-)))

[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): looool

[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): lots of governments do that

[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): governments

[13:25] Al Michigan: well, evolutonairy, with  stuff to solve, like troubles in survival, you d expect development,and adjusting, but, if there is no problem to solve,... and pll just eat shit,... while there is too much off everything and all....

[13:25] herman Bergson: With this lecture I guess I have concluded my introduction of the philosophy of materialism....

[13:26] herman Bergson: What do you mean Gemma?

[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): al mentioned devolution

[13:27] herman Bergson: No idea what devolution is

[13:27] herman Bergson: never heard of

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh

[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): What is the devolution process?

Devolution means that decision making moves closer to the citizen and is more democratic. Devolution is not new. There have been different forms of devolution in the UK for decades and it is common in other parts of the world.

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): passing down the rights to govern to be more local

[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ok

[13:28] herman Bergson: the transfer or delegation of power to a lower level, especially by central government to local or regional administration., it says

[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not really connected to evolution i think'

[13:29] herman Bergson: interesting, but not really related to the evolution of the brain, I'd say

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no

[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well if anything it sounds like a good thing

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but maybe the question is do any ever go backwards

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in evolution

[13:29] herman Bergson: no Gemma....

[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i thought not

[13:29] herman Bergson: because evolution has no direction.....

[13:30] herman Bergson: it is a random process of adjusting to changing circumstances

[13:30] herman Bergson: to ensure survival of the species

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): like covid ........

[13:30] Al Michigan: and so thatcan be negative,  do yo mean that  mr <bergson?

[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh

[13:30] herman Bergson: no, I don't mean that

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good example of changes evolving that may be worse

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): then the first

[13:31] herman Bergson: the concept of negative/positive is a human evaluation of a situation, not an evolutionary quality

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or not

[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah very true

[13:32] Al Michigan: but if it is all random, the  possibilities are endless. for each moment a cell is dividing,.. what motivate them to just change in the right direction?

[13:32] herman Bergson: conditions of survival, Al

[13:32] herman Bergson: and these are random....

[13:32] oola Neruda: not getting killed by the change

[13:32] herman Bergson: depending on temperature, weather or whatever

[13:32] Al Michigan: but if thereis a gazillion ways to change, whywe  not changeinto a gazillion ways?

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i thnk we are

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and have

[13:33] herman Bergson: That makes me think of Herschel Walker....

[13:33] Al Michigan: have we had 3 legs? or 7?

[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): \from neanderthal

[13:33] herman Bergson: He asked the question....

[13:33] Al Michigan: is there a race with several heads, so they can loose a few

[13:33] herman Bergson: if man evolved form apes, why are there still apes then?

[13:34] theo Velde is offline.

[13:34] Al Michigan: yeah, why did they not change...

[13:34] herman Bergson: Thare is no logic in evolution, nor any plan or design...it just happens

[13:34] oola Neruda: isolataed

[13:34] Al Michigan: and where did our feet came from...

[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we needed them

[13:35] Al Michigan: but mr bergson,if you are right, what would off been the odds we would we became what we are  now? is not there not just  not enough time to  get here where we are?

[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): instead of fins

[13:36] herman Bergson: ok..let me take the question...Where did our feet came from...seriously

[13:36] Al Michigan: it would off take trillions off years!!!

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we needed feet so developed them to get around

[13:36] herman Bergson: just think about what the question implies

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): if you believe we came out of the oceans

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): which i do

[13:36] oola Neruda: survival of the fittest

[13:36] oola Neruda: if it did not work... then something else works... and wins

[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): after the dinosaurs

[13:37] herman Bergson: yes that is the history of evolution....

[13:37] herman Bergson: now I whant to focus on this question

[13:37] Al Michigan: but look at the time frame!

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): huge time frame

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Its mother nature doing debugging

[13:37] Al Michigan: no!

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): billions of eons

[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:37] herman Bergson: Where did our feet come from......?

[13:37] Al Michigan: look atthe time it took to develop in the ocean.

[13:37] Al Michigan: to become a fish...

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right

[13:37] herman Bergson: the question can imply two tings....

[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): amazing amount of time

[13:38] herman Bergson: one is...it was a random adjustment to circumstances that improved survival....

[13:38] herman Bergson: seems to me a correct explanation....

[13:38] oola Neruda: some aquatic critter who developed lungs....

[13:39] oola Neruda: managed to wiggle it's way onto land

[13:39] herman Bergson: the second explanation puts emphasis on the word WHERE....

[13:39] oola Neruda: needed a better way to get around so some offspring gets a bonus...

[13:39] oola Neruda: it develops...

[13:39] herman Bergson: and then you move to a creative design fantasy....

[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes oola

[13:39] oola Neruda: ta dah... feet ... or lungs or whatever

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): glad we got them

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa

[13:40] Al Michigan: there is a 3th option.

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): gills would be fun to have though as well, id like being an amfibious creature

[13:40] herman Bergson: ok...tell us Al

[13:40] Al Michigan: instead off the weirs  intelligent design fantasy

[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): could be useful now and then

[13:41] Al Michigan: well,.. take a baby or a foetus, where does the development start, it starts with the genital area.

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): one option is to believe we were all put on earth 5000 years ago as we are some religions really believe

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): on the other hand the lake here nearby have such murky water that u dont see a thing under the surface

[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): where i usually swim

[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Al time to go back to the study of evolution

[13:41] Al Michigan: if  this genital area stays astays alive:

[13:41] Al Michigan: it cretaes more andmore cells  to grow

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): some people have too many cells there...

[13:43] herman Bergson: ^_^

[13:43] oola Neruda: survival of the one that works.... "the fittest"

[13:43] herman Bergson: The dickheads, Beertje -)

[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes:) lol

[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): looool

[13:44] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Al is writing a novel

[13:44] herman Bergson: We haven't the slightest idea what drives the cell differentiation in a growing organism.....

[13:45] Al Michigan: and it is still alive. but then it produces eggs/sperm, these cells are like the same as the other cells, and a start again,  but what if it is still the same zexual organ...but spit, in that case  it is a copy, that was and is still alive and was always alive because there is no  difference in the connection off being a live in the original  bgenitals, or the new to become genital, for both  is: they nver died, and always were...... after a while the oldest off the 2 will ...die, but they younger one will split and leave another part to die, while  it self stays alive, with all the info and ideas  it always had and found and gained in its  lif3, encoded in itself, like living indefinitely, and passing ideas  that gets shape by sexual preferences.

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oops

[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): oh dear

[13:45] herman Bergson: they are experimeting with it.....

[13:45] herman Bergson: Sorry Al ...rules are rules here

[13:45] Al Michigan: i ended mynovel.

[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): too long for herman

[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and too long for us

[13:46] Al Michigan: oh well, ...  will i copy pasteit in parts then?

[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but interesting thought

[13:46] herman Bergson: Could you tell us what your point is, Al?

[13:47] oola Neruda: a lot of experiments... some work...some don'/t

[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah

[13:47] Al Michigan: wellk i pressed the enter button a few times, but me keyboards is 18years old, and it dysfunctions

[13:47] herman Bergson: I was thinking of that mouse on whose back they grew an ear

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so in January will discuss more about materialism from the history of its development

[13:48] herman Bergson: To answer that problem, AL, buy a new keyboard....evolution regained :-)

[[13:48] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma....

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wow vacation time!!!!!!!!

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:48] Al Michigan: it is not about the ration or the fight, but about sharing

[13:48] herman Bergson: Then I'll try to explain how I came to where I am now starting in Old India 2500years ago

[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): going to the island or staying home

[13:49] herman Bergson: Because even then there were people who had the same ideas

[13:49] herman Bergson: We stay at home.....

[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok

[13:49] herman Bergson: Still a bit covid scary of being in an hotel

[[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nice i hope we get a Christmas song this year ?

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): on the cello?

[13:50] herman Bergson: Yes...working on it.....

[13:50] herman Bergson: yes yes

[13:50] oola Neruda: yayyyy

[13:50] Al Michigan: with the escalation off the  Ukrainian i am not going to take a risk going to a foreign country only to get stuck in a Europe torn by a nuclear impact, some where far away from home, having to walk back all the way.

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): :)))

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaaa that would be nice

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yeay

[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yay

[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :)3

[13:50] herman Bergson: Next wednesday I plan to record and video some Xmas songs playing together with my teacher

[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah lovely!!!!!

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:51] bergfrau Apfelbaum: BRB RL

[13:51] oola Neruda: yayyyyy

[13:51] herman Bergson: she  doent yet know, but I'll surprise her with the plan

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok ㋡

[13:51] herman Bergson: then I will edit the movie and post it on Youtube

[13:51] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): she'l love it

[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): great

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): .)

[13:51] herman Bergson: Sure Beertje...I agree

[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaaa

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and put a notice

[13:52] herman Bergson: gonna be fun

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or im

[13:52] herman Bergson: I'll keep you informed Gemma...don't worry :-))

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok

[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i cannot believe it is so close to Christmas

[13:52] Lukkie Sands: such a vain man......

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): true Lukkkie

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes lukkie

[13:53] Lukkie Sands: hihi

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all charghed up for weekend, hugs dance battle on saturday

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but we knew that

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): will be amazing

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): amazing inferno

[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we are so old in this class

[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but still here

[13:53] herman Bergson: Well...we finished another year.....

[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wow

[13:54] herman Bergson: 2023 will be my tenth anniversary of being version 2.0 :-)

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mmm

[13:54] Al Michigan: kewl!

[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok

[13:54] herman Bergson: So..a great year to come

[13:55] Al Michigan: awesome

[13:55] Al Michigan: i hope to be a part offit

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): outside looks very nice too

[13:55] herman Bergson: I wish you all happy holidays!

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): tyty

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)

[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): fijne vakantie:))

[13:55] oola Neruda: right back at'cha

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...

[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shall eat my way through

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): been great

[13:55] Al Michigan: merry christmassmr bergson!

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha

[13:55] Al Michigan: and a happy new year!

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (imagining Gemma munching her way through a mountain of food)

[13:55] herman Bergson: Good start Al :-))

[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in little bites

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): followed by a nice glass of wine

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): proost Gemma

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well il probably do that as well , this dance battle should prepare me, burning energy like a nuclear reactor before munch time

[13:56] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:56] herman Bergson: For the last time in 2022....CLASS DISMISSED.....^_^

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i usually go all out on these events

[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:56] Al Michigan: See you next year mr Bergson! :-)

[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡