It is around 1900 and materialism is now in the open. No longer a highly distrusted theory on the fringes of philosophy, but a solid justification of Marx's interpretation of the historical development of mankind.
It is the material world that shapes the consciousness of the people and this leads to a growing awareness of the social classes in society, their position, and their justified rights, based on the material relations in the state.
Of at least equal significance for the history of materialism is the impact of an advance in biology. It is difficult to overestimate the impact that the theory of evolution has had on our conception of the world, and difficult too to overestimate the scope of its acceptance in the scientific community.
It is inevitable, that we have to address the issue of atheism, for the non-existence of any transcendental or spiritual entity or force is inherent in the materialist point of view.
I'd rather avoid it because materialism is closely related to science and it is more interesting to discuss the consequences of a scientific worldview than to discuss beliefs and fantasies which have no relation with science at all.
Well, there have been attempts to create a kind of link with science by claiming that it can't be otherwise than that there has to exist a design and thence a designer behind all this, that we call our world.
Newton (1643 -1727) already wrote: " Atheism is so senseless and odious to mankind that it never had many professors. Can it be accident that birds, beasts, and men have their right side and left side alike shaped.........", (...)
Whence rises this uniformity in all their outward shapes but from the counsel and contrivance of an Author? (...) These and such like considerations always have
and ever will prevail with mankind to believe that there is a being who made all things and has all things in his power and is therefore feared." -end quote-
It is worth observing how Newton sneaks into the theist stance the need of the pious to be fearful. Religion has the aim of keeping men fearful. Epicurus and Lucretius seek the exact opposite.
While materialism and atheism aren't still in the open in those days, let alone, that you would write openly about it, David Hume (1711 -1776) had found a trick to push the issue and invented a "friend who loves skeptical paradoxes" in "Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion" (1779).
As you see, it was published after his death and not without reason, for the key point delivered in this camouflaged way is that there is an illegitimate leap from the evidence of the existence of a craftsman, an "Author", to the assertion that that is also evidence for the existence of a god.
Just take this observation of Philo, this "friend who loves skeptical paradoxes": "If the cause be known only by the effect, we never ought to ascribe to it any qualities beyond what are precisely requisite to produce the effect....." -end quote- I'd say 'case closed'.
Philo offers further arguments, but we can conclude that this is a powerful reply to the argument of design for the existence of god, but it wasn't until the theory of evolution that it was dealt the final blow.
Evolution is understood as a random process in which the fittest survives, not the most perfect in whatever sense, but the one most adapted to its environment. We have all kinds of evidence for this thesis.
Believers in a god transgress the boundaries which are set by Philo's argument. However, when this designer is an all-knowing, all-loving, all-mighty, benevolent designer,
why, then did it/he/she create all these creatures on this planet that can feel pain, eat each other, get ill, get cancer, can be sadistic and murderous, and eventually if not by violence, simply die?
If that was by design.... OMG ...... ^_^
Thank you for your attention again...
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
The Discussion
[13:13] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:14] herman Bergson: Silence.....
[13:14] herman Bergson: No smiles.....
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Its not a but, its a feature!!
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as programmers say
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): bug
[13:15] bergfrau Apfelbaum: I've often wondered that too.....why why why
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the same questions still remain
[13:15] herman Bergson: that is the point, Bergie, there is no WHY in evolution, just randomness
[13:16] herman Bergson: We just happen to be conscious
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hmmm
[13:16] oola Neruda: I'm with the evolution thought
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good thing we just happen to have two hands and feet too
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is still all amazing
[13:17] bergfrau Apfelbaum: lol Gemma
[13:17] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hahaa
[13:17] herman Bergson: Yes. quite handy, Gemma :-)
[13:17] bergfrau Apfelbaum: we humans ONLY ask about things to which there are (still) no answers
[13:17] herman Bergson: It is, Gemma . absolutely....
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very true Bergie
[13:18] herman Bergson: But let me give you an example of evolution
[13:18] oola Neruda: have been studying the universe, star by star... element by element...the rise of life (here) (there???).... how the gasses etc react to light , blah blah blah.... and so i go with the astronomers and scientists.... and evolution
[13:18] herman Bergson: The process.....
[13:18] herman Bergson: happens every day
[13:18] herman Bergson: I say a Youtube clip.....
[13:19] oola Neruda: a lot of high energy physics in the process...
[13:19] herman Bergson: A petri dish with a virus on it and 'lanes of material containing antibiotics
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm,
[13:19] herman Bergson: lane one 10%, lane 2 20% up to a 1000% lane
[13:20] oola Neruda: evolution... even of the presence of things that are not alive... but are affected by their environments
[13:20] herman Bergson: the virus was put at the beginning of the lanes.....
[13:20] herman Bergson: in a few hours the virus had evolved to a virus that was able to survive the 1000% of antibiotics
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): scary research but necessary
[13:21] herman Bergson: pure evolution...survival of the fittest in a petri dish in a lab
[13:21] herman Bergson: there was no god or designer needed for that...it just happened
[13:22] herman Bergson: Which showes that a use of too much antibiotics creates resistant viruses
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they evolve
[13:23] herman Bergson: This was a lab test...small scale and in a short time.....
[13:23] oola Neruda: stars evolve... planets evolve... etc
[13:23] herman Bergson: but this process is developing for millions of years already
[13:23] oola Neruda: exactly
[13:24] oola Neruda: or billions
[13:24] herman Bergson: Keep in mind.....we, as human beings, are just observers, spectators.....
[13:24] oola Neruda: a happy accident
[13:24] herman Bergson: we have not a single clue about what why is happening in evolution
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well i think a lot of scientists do now have a clue
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): clues
[13:25] herman Bergson: as I said last Tuesday....we are the prisoners of the limitations of our minds, and brain
[13:25] oola Neruda: there IS a history of the universe... and it is mostly on an atomic level
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is so true
[13:25] herman Bergson: What clues are you thinking of Gemma?
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i am not a scientist
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but i think those who are are always looking at evolution
[13:26] herman Bergson: In a sense of causality we KNOW what is happening and why indeeed
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and do see what is happening
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): especially in the micro world
[13:27] oola Neruda: and universe.... worlds
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:27] herman Bergson: evolution has no final direction or goal... Aristotle would have believed that
[13:28] herman Bergson: We understand the causal structure of matter...that makes science possible
[13:28] oola Neruda: nor the stars... sun... planets
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:28] herman Bergson: Just to give it a context
[13:29] herman Bergson: I watch a TED talk "Why We are Alone in the Galaxy"
[13:29] herman Bergson: very interesting......
[13:29] herman Bergson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nCOhrYV7eg
[13:29] herman Bergson: nice homework for the weekend :-))
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also seems strange. That this would be the only planet with life other then maybee small microbes
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): will watch
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there is a unsettling theory of the big filter, that all other intelligent organisms have already wiped itself out with nukes and pollution and now Putin will soon do the same with all of us
[13:31] herman Bergson: You know, Bejiita.... that idea, that it is strange....that is also strange if you have watched this clip
[13:31] bergfrau Apfelbaum: to think we're the only ones is selfish
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i sure hope thats not the case
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:31] herman Bergson: Just think....
[13:31] oola Neruda: water is a factor... it is on some planets and not on others
[13:32] herman Bergson: if evolution is a random process....why would it follow the same route on other planets?
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and certain chemicals too oola
[13:32] oola Neruda: exactly
[13:32] herman Bergson: sure...
[13:32] herman Bergson: but the randomness of the process.....
[13:32] herman Bergson: Watch this man explaining it to you...really interesting
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well cause there has to be more planets like ours, earth cant be the only planet in the entire universe with the right conditions for intelligent life
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or idk
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): universe is HUUUUGE after all
[13:33] oola Neruda: one factor is orbit vs. mayhem
[13:33] herman Bergson: modesty has never been the most prevailing virtue of man:-))
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very very true
[13:34] herman Bergson: so..listen to this man:-)
[13:34] herman Bergson: is fun
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ill check
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok will do
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i will
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bookmarked
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa same here
[13:35] herman Bergson: And in relation to materialism....I also ran into a TED talk about the decline of religiosity....
[13:35] herman Bergson: It confirmed my idea.....
[13:35] herman Bergson: materialism is related to science, knowledge...
[13:35] herman Bergson: religiosity is just a cultural thing
[13:36] oola Neruda: agree
[13:36] herman Bergson: it will disappear eventually....
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:36] herman Bergson: The man showed interesting statistics
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i think it should have since long already
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): only cause wars
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and suffering
[13:36] herman Bergson: Why there is no way back for religion in the West | David Voas | TEDxUniversityofEssex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtAR_OGzlcg
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): religion is a recipe for conflict mostly
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mostly
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): more homework!!!!!
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:37] herman Bergson: No agitated yelling like Harris or Dawkins would show...just simple presentation of facts
[13:38] herman Bergson: oops...yes sorry Gemma :-)
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shall look at that too
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): long weekend
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ill check the stuff out also
[13:38] herman Bergson: Well...some homework after 1051 lectures....can't be too much, I'd say
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok ill try and see of i can get to an event im invited to, its that surrealist place again
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just started
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no not after 1000 with none
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:39] herman Bergson: Ok Bejiita...but stay real :-))
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): after so many lectures we had a lot to think about
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i cant use Unreal at same time, too many people, eats all memory as is
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes beertje
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sim is often full
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): even without homework:)
[13:39] herman Bergson: heads have grown indeed Beertje :-)))
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if i cant get there i come to card place
[13:40] oola Neruda: think microscopic... for a LOT of the answers
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:40] oola Neruda: about the most HUGE things
[13:40] oola Neruda: and their temperatures or lack of
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): need huge things to look for the smallest stuff (LHC)
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :)=
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): what happened to al michigan?
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): btw
[13:41] herman Bergson: What about Michigan Gemma?
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Al
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you miss him?
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he was coming to class so often
[13:41] herman Bergson: oh...Al :-))
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he had some original thoughts
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:41] herman Bergson: Last time he said he hadn't finished his homework...since then he hasn't shown up anymore
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh oh
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ow:))
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): heheh ok,
[13:42] oola Neruda: was he an artificial inteligence bot
[13:42] herman Bergson: no....
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no oola
[13:42] oola Neruda: AI ?
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): naaa ChatGPT was not created yet then
[13:43] herman Bergson: oh..before I forget....:-))
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): one of few ais hard to distinguish from a real person
[13:43] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:43] herman Bergson: otherwise you have to stay allthe time....
[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class!
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well i cu over there is sim is full
[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: clapclap
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh i just look at the date and he has not been on line since Feb 4
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:44] herman Bergson: Poor Al....guess this class was his playground
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): you think?
[13:44] herman Bergson: oh yes....
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think he was really thinking
[13:44] herman Bergson: he was indeed
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and really wanted to participate
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but got off course once in a while
[13:45] herman Bergson: nicely said, Gemma ^_^
[13:45] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ツ
[13:45] herman Bergson: But we didn't throw him out..on the contrary
[13:46] herman Bergson: Like that looney on that horse
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he was a real griefer i think
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): his livelihood
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:46] herman Bergson: I love them :-)
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the really good ones from years back have mostly retired
[13:47] herman Bergson: Makes me a griefer too then :-))
[13:47] herman Bergson: yes...isn't it a pitty....
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: grins
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): all old people here :)))
[13:47] herman Bergson: self replicating prims...strange sound objects....I miss them
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye Gemma:-)
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