296: Empathy and the Brain

When you look at Amazon for the book of Professor Marco Iacoboni, " Mirroring People: The Science of Empathy and How We Connect with Others" Amazon comes with a number of suggestions of books which might interest you too.

Just look at the titles:

- Mirrors in the Brain: How Our Minds Share Actions, Emotions and Experiences… by Giacomo Rizzolatti

- The Body Has a Mind of Its Own: How Body Maps in Your Brain Help You Do (Almost) Everything Better
by Sandra Blakeslee

- The Social Neuroscience of Empathy by Jean Decety

- The Age of Empathy: Nature's Lessons for a Kinder Society by Frans de Waal

- The Tell-Tale Brain: A Neuroscientist's. Quest for What Makes Us Human
by V. S. Ramachandran

- Social Neuroscience: Integrating Biological and Psychological Explamations of Social Behavior by Eddie Harmon-Jones PhD

- The Neuroscience of Psychotherapy: Healing the Social Brain by Louis Cozolino

- The Empathic Civilization: The Race to Global Consciousness in a World in Crisis by Jeremy Rifkin

- The Healing Power of Emotion: Affective Neuroscience , Development and Clinical Practice by Diana Fosha



Do you remember the times of Erich From, Abraham Maslow, Karl Rogers, the days of self realization, psychological self-help and titles like "Toward a Psychology of Being", "On Becoming a Person" and so on.

We all read such books and every 18 year old in the late 60s and early 70s wanted to study psychology, myself included. The new insights in personal psychology would bring us greater happiness in life.

In the book titles, which I showed you, you see a big shift of focus. Psychology is out, neuroscience is in. Maslow and Rogers are out, Iacoboni and Ramachandran are in.

Iacoboni is one of the leading scientists in the research of mirror neurons. He has discovered something very interesting. Test persons were read sentences in which certain actions were described like picking up a cup and so on.

When put in an fMRI-scanner it showed that the test persons' brain immediately responded. Of course in the auditory areas of the brain, but in particular in those parts of the brain that were related to the actions as described, the pre-motoric cortex.

What was happening in the brain, was, that it was running a simulation of the action as described. So, you could conclude that simulating the action leads to understanding what is described.

There are indications that this simulation behavior of the brain is absolutely necessary to understand. In further research the scientists disabled the mirror neurons of the test persons with strong magnetic pulses.

This at the very moment that the test persons were listening to the description of certain actions again. The result was amazing. The test persons heard the words loud and clear, but they did not understand what they meant.


One step further was to assume that there were not only mirror neurons in the pre-motoric cortex. In other words, can the brain also play simulations of feelings and emotions?

And yes indeed, that appeared to be the case. Test persons were tickled on their leg with a feather. Then they were put in the scanner and watched a short video of an actor who was tickled with a feather. And the mirror neurons fired.

Same was demonstrated with feelings of disgust or loathing. A small part of the brain, the insula, always fires when we feel disgust..

Test persons had to endure the smell of rotten eggs and after that watched a short video of a man smelling at a glass and then reacting with a grimace of disgust. Again the insula of the test persons fired.

Mirror neurons not only simulate the action but also analyze the meaning or motivation of an action. This means that on a deep neural level, we as human beings are even physically connected with each other.

This is perhaps what Second Life makes such a fun. We are not simply watching our screen and see two avatars dance….. our brain simulates the action. Our nervous systems are in direct contact with each other.

The deepest bond between each other is of course the bond created by empathy. Just recall this title: "The Age of Empathy: Nature's Lessons for a Kinder Society" by Frans de Waal

I did mirror neuron research without knowing it in the early 80s, while they were only discovered around 1996. I used to sit in a bar and observe the faces of people.

Then I put on my face the same expression of someone, supposing that I thus could 'feel' and understand the feelings of the other person.

Iacoboni showed test persons faces with emotional expressions, joy, anger, disgust. Then the test persons were asked to imitate the facial expressions. In both situations specific areas of the frontal cortex fired.

As you may conclude from the book titles, the discovery of the mirror neurons may open a way to better understand empathy and social behavior

and as some neuroscientists hope it may open a gateway to a better world by finding out how we can strengthen the power of our mirror neurons system.



The Discussion

[13:22] herman Bergson: Thank you....
[13:22] herman Bergson: You have the floor ^_^
[13:22] BALDUR Joubert: the interesting thing is that mirror neurons react to the surrounding..to say they are a social component in our brain..which propably is genetic,not learning
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur....
[13:23] herman Bergson: Still little is known...but it is intriguing
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: and animals have them too
[13:23] herman Bergson: My goodness Bejiita ..you made me nervous with all you typing :-)
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i have to read the class on mirror neurons
[13:24] herman Bergson: Oh yes....
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: haha typing?
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes on my screen at least :-)
[13:24] hannes Breda: firing neurons can be measured....But how we feel as a consequence of that firing is a different question all together...
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: aaah...
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: hehe my avatar hang up or something
[13:24] hannes Breda: and that is where psychology becomes important again
[13:24] Paula Dix: lol
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: firing is one thing..which synapses are involved another..
[13:25] herman Bergson: There you touch the relation between the physical and the mental hannes...
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: afraid i would post a 200 line message or something?
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:25] Paula Dix: here he was typing too
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: well very interesting stuff came to my mind indeed now and a LOTR of it
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: LOT
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: this mirror thing i really need to check up
[13:26] herman Bergson: Today the Philosophy of Mind is an interdisciplanary study...
[13:27] herman Bergson: But we'll see later in this project how much we know and don't know if we get to the fundamental questions
[13:27] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): seems to me that the mirror neurons tbe able to experience the emotion mustfirst have a foundation of empirical data to relate it to
[13:27] BALDUR Joubert: where the human being should be also regarded as just a species part of nature
[13:27] herman Bergson: At least there is some agreement.....cartesian dualism cant be uphold anymore
[13:27] hannes Breda: how does this relate to the notion of submersive feelings in SL, or the notion of the suspended disbelieve where the old brain convinces the new brain that this is fun, so it should shut op for a while?
[13:28] Paula Dix: I dont know Ari, I just read the class about that "fake" mirror showed to babies
[13:28] herman Bergson: the old brain and the new brain hannes....
[13:28] herman Bergson: you mean the reptile part and the cortex?
[13:28] hannes Breda: yes
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: i think what hannes brings up is the question of brain-and the contents of the brain/memory/learned/culture
[13:28] hannes Breda: yes i do:)
[13:29] hannes Breda: but i am a psychologist:))
[13:29] herman Bergson: Hold on.....not too may issues at a time....
[13:29] Paula Dix: sorry, "fake" square! :)))) mirror got in i don't know how
[13:30] herman Bergson: What you refer to Aristotle is the Nature / Nurture problem
[13:30] herman Bergson: Tests wis new borns reveal a little of what is nature....
[13:30] herman Bergson: But we are still guessing and generally is assumed......ok 50 % - 50%
[13:31] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): to believe that there is a connection between individuals that llow s the passing of emotions from one to the other is a mystical thing
[13:31] herman Bergson: Let me see....the hannes issue was which part of the brain has to shut up ^_^
[13:31] herman Bergson: In SL...:-)
[13:32] Paula Dix: yes, how babies could see the fake square if they never had seen one before? Maybe its the same with emotions and the rest for these mirror neurons
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: or how they can recognize a spider without have seen one
[[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: do they? how you know
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: cause preprogrammed from or african heritage cause there are dangerous spiders and snakes there
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: to help to survive
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes....
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: thats an interesting thing
[13:33] hannes Breda: the old brain again
[13:33] herman Bergson: Well Bejiita ...that was a possible interpretation.....but sounds plausible
[13:33] Ciska Riverstone: or do they just mirror the feelings of their parent when they c a spider?
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:33] herman Bergson: from an evolutionary point of view
[13:33] hannes Breda: "look out, this is a snake!!" new brain: "no, it is just a picture..No worry'
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): :))
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes Hannes
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:34] Paula Dix: lol
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:34] herman Bergson: Yes hannes I guess...in that order...
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): joint control of us
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): bipartisan
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well...welcome to your mirror neurons.....a new experience and intensely used in SL ^_^
[13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): oops, is that old fashioned Cartesian thinking?
[13:36] herman Bergson: What do you mean Aristotle...I would say..in no way
[13:36] hannes Breda: and the theory is that on SL we l;et the old brain deceive us for a while (it is a picture, but i like experiencing it for a while as a genuine snake, because it is fun)
[13:36] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): dualism?
[13:36] hannes Breda: sorry, herman, back to the mirror neurons:)
[13:36] herman Bergson: no dualism so far in sight Aristotle :-)
[13:36] hannes Breda: lol
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: aa yes i don't just see a picture, i feel almost like I am with u all for real because we comunicate and do things that are shown in here on the screen at same time
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: so feel connected
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: and not alone
[13:37] hannes Breda: indeed
[13:37] Paula Dix: for me it is real
[13:37] Paula Dix: made of pixels, real pixels
[13:37] hannes Breda: it is...for a while
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes true Bejiita....
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: and SL is the only computer program that has given me actual memories
[13:38] herman Bergson: if you assume that our brains are running simulations at top speed now....we really feel and communicate here
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: no other thing have done that at least in thois way
[13:38] Paula Dix: yes, sensory like its limited, but all real
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: really interesting
[13:38] herman Bergson: Well..if you take SL as a simulation of RL
[13:38] Paula Dix: i guess we have that social thing so necessary for humans here
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:39] herman Bergson: and our eyses seeing it on a screen make our brain run simulations in our brain....interesting idea
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: I live alone here but thanx to sl i never fel alone in the evnings
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes Paula, I think so too
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the pixels are communication tools
[13:39] hannes Breda: very interesting this notion of the neurons firing the same way as if it was 'reality', because then it becomes reality
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: parties friends and lot of fun 9 torture my neighbors with loud music
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: +
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): WaaaHaHAhahAHA! AhhhhHAhahhAHhahHAH! haha!
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): of course it is nothing but reality
[13:40] herman Bergson: at least a mental and inner reality hannes, yes
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: well..ari.. before pictures people communicated too and shared thought and emotioons..
[13:40] Paula Dix: yes Ari, maybe it add a sense (like taste or hearing) to us
[13:40] hannes Breda: is there another kind?
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: pictures is just as visual plus
[13:40] Paula Dix: lol Bekita
[13:40] herman Bergson: Oh....
[13:40] Paula Dix: Bejita, sorry
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:40] Qwark Allen: i usually say it`s a virtual world with real feelings
[13:40] herman Bergson: seeing pictures fire mirror neurons constantly...
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: true
[13:41] Paula Dix: well, i learned here that Plato said everything is virtual
[13:41] Alexia Rodeyn: simulation is nothing but an artificial model of a real thing and if so , SL is a simulation for us
[13:41] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): my mind allows me to feel all the emotions just like the physical world
[13:41] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[13:41] hannes Breda: a shadow on the wall
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes Qwark that it is in my opinion too
[13:41] Alexia Rodeyn: i agree on that
[13:41] herman Bergson: I love this brain...nice toy!
[13:42] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): because the body perfoms the same function of communication
[13:42] Paula Dix: how much i missed being here in these months i couldn't come was very, very real
[13:42] Qwark Allen: and yet still in evolution
[13:42] Paula Dix: lol herman
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:42] herman Bergson: Yes Qwark, but for that we have to wait a 50.000 years to see results :-)
[13:43] herman Bergson: Maybe reincarnation yet is fun....:-)
[13:43] Alarice Beaumont: lol lots of grey hair until then lol
[13:43] Qwark Allen: we never know
[13:43] herman Bergson: Well thank you all for this nice discussion....
[13:43] Qwark Allen: sometimes evolution leaps forward fast
[13:44] herman Bergson: It is time for me to fire some other mirror neurons I think ^_^
[13:44] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the body sprouted from the ancient brain and the cerebral cortex has made good use of it since
[13:44] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:44] hannes Breda: could this be bad for our bodies, herman? Our neurons firing, we ready to perform the bodily actions that go with it and...poof!! Inertia
[13:44] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): hope i make it tuesday
[13:44] herman Bergson: Yes Aristotle....and so should you ^_^
[13:44] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): will try
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:44] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:44] Qwark Allen: very nice these classes about neurons
[13:44] Qwark Allen: thank you
[13:44] Qwark Allen: ¸¸.☆´ ¯¨☆.¸¸`☆** **☆´ ¸¸.☆¨¯`☆ H E R MA N ☆´ ¯¨☆.¸¸`☆** **☆´ ¸¸.☆¨¯`
[13:44] hannes Breda: bye friends
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: this get more and more interesting
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:44] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): interesting yes
[13:44] CONNIE Eichel: great class :)
[13:44] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:44] herman Bergson: thank you all
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: cu ㋡
[13:45] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the pixels seem to be doing the same fine job :)
[13:45] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Thank you Professor
[13:45] Alexia Rodeyn: thank you !!!
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: cu next time
[13:45] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman!! very interesting! was that!!!
[13:45] Alarice Beaumont: really interesting again... thanks Herman
[13:46] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[13:46] herman Bergson: My pleasure Bergie!
[13:46] CONNIE Eichel: bye all, great class, till next time :)
[13:46] herman Bergson: Bye CONNIE
[13:46] CONNIE Eichel: :)

[13:46] Qwark Allen: paarty next ^^
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: cu connie
[13:46] CONNIE Eichel: cu :)
[13:46] herman Bergson: You look nice again ...:-)
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:46] Ciska Riverstone: Thank You herman
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: time to scare my neighbors again
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: and have some more fun
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:47] herman Bergson: Go for it Bejiita !!!
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: bye all
[13:47] Paula Dix: bye!
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: see u next week! byebye class :-)
[13:47] herman Bergson: Bye Ciska ....be well :-)
[13:47] hannes Breda: bye:)
[13:47] Alexia Rodeyn: bye everyone
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: hugds
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: hugs
[13:47] herman Bergson: smiles
[13:47] Paula Dix: hannes, i remember seeing something
[13:47] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye herr professor :o)
[13:47] herman Bergson: thnx Bejiita ^_^
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:48] hannes Breda: oh, paula, what?
[13:48] herman Bergson: Bye Bergie :-)
[13:48] herman Bergson: See you soon ^_*
[13:48] Paula Dix: in a tv news, that if you think you are running it will have the same effect on body
[13:48] Paula Dix: or, 3x less
[13:48] herman Bergson: Yes Paula...that is the attraction of action movies...
[13:48] Paula Dix: you need to think youre runnig 1:30hs to have the same effect as really running 30 mins
[13:48] hannes Breda: yes, but i have heard that the adrenaline that builds up but is not used is bad for us
[13:49] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): good bye everyone, thatnksagian Herman
[13:49] Paula Dix: yes, then SL wont be bad on body
[13:49] herman Bergson: Bye Aristotle
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: bye Ari
[13:49] Paula Dix: provided you make your av move a lot! :))))
[13:49] hannes Breda: lol
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:49] herman Bergson: grins
[13:49] hannes Breda: in whatever way?
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: well dancing is fun so
[13:49] herman Bergson: I KNEW you would ask hannes lol
[13:49] hannes Breda: lol
[13:49] Paula Dix: lol depends what part you want to exercise
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: wish there was a way to control my avatar through rl movements as well
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: would be cool
[13:50] Paula Dix: Bejita i dream of that, imagine neural control
[13:50] herman Bergson: there are options Bejiita...
[13:50] hannes Breda: like the Wii
[13:50] Paula Dix: lol good but still not there
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: kinect i think can be made to control all sort of stuff
[13:50] hannes Breda: there is already a way to use the wii to control movements in sl, i have heard]
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: for the xbox
[13:50] herman Bergson: in fact a matter of simple programming and wearing a sensor suit which they also use to "record' dances
[13:51] Paula Dix: ah! interesting!
[13:51] Bejiita Imako: they deliberatley opened for it to be used in general I think
[13:51] Paula Dix: yes but if neural directly this can be more perfect than FL
[13:51] herman Bergson: yes....USB cable in your ear Paula
[13:51] hannes Breda: or any other part...
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:52] Paula Dix: lol
[13:52] herman Bergson: coughs
[13:52] hannes Breda: sorry
[13:52] Paula Dix: There is a book by Scott Card, the guy has mechanical eyes
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: connect a usb contact to the brain and plug the computer in
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:52] hannes Breda: yes i know that one, paula...
[13:52] herman Bergson: yeah would be cool Bejiita
[13:52] Paula Dix: one is to see, the other to connect, he loves to use the cable to record what he sees and make other people unease
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: could be useful
[13:53] Paula Dix: nice book except that he uses that of making the atheist being negative, depressive, wasted
[13:53] hannes Breda: ah yes, the same with his other books
[13:53] Paula Dix: Carl Bach??
[13:54] hannes Breda: Scott Card
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: hmm im atheist and im certainley not that
[13:54] Paula Dix: True
[13:54] Paula Dix: lol same here
[13:54] herman Bergson: nor am I..^_^
[13:54] hannes Breda: would you allow me to invite you 2 as friends?
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: or to say if i can get scientific proof for god THEN i will believe it but since i've never seen a god or ghosts and such i don't believe in them
[13:54] herman Bergson: I guess it is an American author?!
[13:54] Paula Dix: one of his books that scape it, i think, is that fairy tale, Hope something...
[13:55] Paula Dix: yes, american and from that church, whats the name?
[13:55] Paula Dix: from Salt Lake City
[13:55] herman Bergson: Mormons
[13:55] hannes Breda: in the end he was rather boring...I love SF btw:)
[13:55] Paula Dix: yes!
[13:55] Bejiita Imako: aa yes
[13:55] Paula Dix: lol me too hannes
[13:55] hannes Breda: thank you, friends
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: time to move on now
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: cu soon
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: :
[13:56] herman Bergson: Bye Bejiita
[13:56] hannes Breda: for me, too, bye now:)
[13:56] Paula Dix: i just discovered Bruce Sterling, very interesting
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: tnx paula
[13:56] herman Bergson: Take care
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:56] Paula Dix: :)))
[13:57] Paula Dix: ops, bejita is gone before i could say...
[13:57] herman Bergson: he'll be here next class ^_^
[13:57] herman Bergson: then you can say .....
[13:57] Paula Dix: lol would talk to him about 1000 avatars, his is interesting, would be nice htere
[13:59] Paula Dix: ok, time to go take care of dinner!!!
[13:59] Paula Dix: thats the worst of having just two people at home :)
[13:59] BALDUR Joubert: bon appetit paula:)
[13:59] Paula Dix: ty :)))
[14:00] herman Bergson: Yes...have fun Paula
[14:00] Paula Dix: oh, its true, ive read September and half october, not july and august, on the site
[14:01] Paula Dix: ok, let me run! kiss!

295: A Mirror in your Brain

In his theater play "Huis close" [Closed doors] Jean Paul Sartre makes one of the characters say": "L'enfer c'est l'autre." [Hell is other people]. The idea is that the other is a mirror showing your own shortcomings.

But is Sartre right? Isn't it equally true, that we only can experience love and kindness because of the other? And isn't it true, that the most severe punishment for a human is absolute isolation. Isn't loneliness our heaviest burden to carry?

We are social animals. According to theory our social way of life was one of the powers in evolution which stimulated the development of our brain and our intelligence. The smarter we are the better we can live in a group.

There is a steadily growing interest in social behavior among neuroscientists: the brain as a social organ. You should not investigate the brain in isolation, but in its working in a social context.

This means that today phenomena like prejudices, personal attitudes and social conflicts are now studied in relation to neural and physiological processes, which are involved.

In an experiment with white and black Americans the test persons were shown a series of pictures of faces. In the beginning the amygdala, a small part in the brain responsible for emotions - especially fear-, fired.

After having seen the portraits a number of time the activity of the amygdale decreased….. except when the test person saw a face of the opposite race.

But there happened something even more interesting. This amygdala activity showed up all the time when test persons were shown faces for 30 milliseconds per portrait.

However, when the faces were shown for a period of 525 milliseconds something happened. The more areas in the frontal cortex became active, the more the activity of the amygdala decreased.

That part of the brain, the frontal cortex, is associated with the ability to estimate, regulate and control. The more activity in the frontal cortex the more the activity of the amygdala decreased.

In the social group we invent our behavior. This enables us to transcend biological instincts. An interesting question here is : where does this ability come from? A serious candidate for this are the so-called mirror neurons.

These mirror neurons were in fact discovered just by accident. In 1996 three researchers of the University of Parma (Italy) were studying the brains process of rhesus monkeys with respect to some grab movements.

The brains of the monkeys were wired with electrodes, which activated equipment when they grabs an object. When the specified areas of the brian fired a sound was hear.

During a lunch break the equipment began to make sounds, but when they checked the monkeys…none of them was moving. They sat quietly in their cages.

But who had moved was one of the researchers. He had walked over to a fruit bowl and picked up some fruit, which was observed by the monkeys.

After thorough testing the researchers discovered that observing the grabbing of some fruit activated the pre-motoric neurons of the monkeys. That means that the brain activity of the person who grabs a banana is "mirrored" in the brain of an observer of the action.

This was an important discovery. Philosophically you can relate it to the problem of "Other minds"…. How do we know that other persons have an independent conscious mind, independent of mine?

Superficially spoken you could say that at least our brain assumes this by mirroring brain processes, that go on in another brain.

It is now generally assumed that there exist systems of mirror neurons in the human brain too, which are located in the frontal and parietal lobs of the brain.

in the next lecture we'll have a closer look at the phenomenon of mirror neurons and what their role might be.


The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you...
[13:21] herman Bergson: and hello Paula ..nice to see you again ^_^
[13:21] Paula Dix: hi! :))
[13:21] Qwark Allen: very interesting herman
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: aa yes
[13:22] Paula Dix: saddly a bit late
[13:22] herman Bergson: if you have a question or remark..the floor is yours :-)
[13:22] Qwark Allen: i`ll check it out
[13:22] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, what a pleasure Paula
[13:22] Cyberpedia Bolissima: u c in me what u need me 2 b 4 u 2 c urself
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: thats almost like mind reading
[13:22] Paula Dix: my pleasure, i really missed you all
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: hi Paula
[13:22] Paula Dix: hi :)
[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita..it is an interesting phenomenon and they hardly canexplain it
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: hmm yes
[13:23] herman Bergson: But I'll get to that in the next lecture
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: that if i see someone doing something whatever might be it activate the same things in my brain that would control my movements for example dancing
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: even i dont move myself
[13:24] Paula Dix: did you mention that case oliver sachs told in his book?
[13:24] herman Bergson: Well what makes you so tired looking at an action movie....?
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: well then if i see someone dance it makes me want to do that too cause i like it a lot, its fun
[13:24] herman Bergson: your brain is mirroring all that muscle movements
[13:24] herman Bergson: :-)
[13:25] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): is there a insinuation of a super-communal conection between individuals
[13:25] Paula Dix: ok, so we just need to see that gymnastic shows on tv?
[13:25] herman Bergson: I wouldn't say that Aristotle...
[13:25] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): hmmm
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: hmm might be thats why I am so good at many of the moves in a web series i watch about some super dancers
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: LXD
[13:25] herman Bergson: lol...yes Paula and you keep your fine shape..lol
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:25] Paula Dix: lol
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: interesting idea
[13:25] BALDUR Joubert: a connection to the other is necessary for survival ari..
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: take child-mother..
[13:26] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but twins then in each of us that is provoked by other's behavior
[13:26] herman Bergson: At least ist is a special phenomenon...
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: facial expressions we receive like language information
[13:26] herman Bergson: There is a behavioral trick...I sometimes used it...
[13:27] herman Bergson: When you look at someones face and you give your own face the same expression....you 'feel' what the other feels
[13:27] herman Bergson: When you look at body language...
[13:27] Paula Dix: interesting!
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: aah
[13:28] herman Bergson: People also mirror poses and gestures
[13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): would that require common life experiences?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Just observe two people talking ....
[13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): sadness, joy etc
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: social life ari.
[13:28] herman Bergson: I dont think so Aristotle...it is caused by direct observation
[13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): a mimick only then?
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: no mirror without a mirror..
[13:29] Paula Dix: maybe you need the experience to name it and talk about, but not to feel
[13:29] herman Bergson: yes..
[13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): hmmm
[13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): then we learn the behavior by observing the other
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: not necessarily paula.. you can feel the same when someone gets hurt..
[13:30] herman Bergson: Yes Aristotle...to some extend the mirror neurons are the way we learn behavior from others
[13:30] Paula Dix: yes, exactly, you always feel the other, but only can talk about if you know the names
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: so as we know what it means to cut one's finger
[13:30] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and indicates some kind of training of our own minds
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: better..we react
[13:30] herman Bergson: Oh yes....
[13:30] herman Bergson: when you see another hurt himself..in a way you feel it too
[13:31] herman Bergson: That is why I hate those programs with home videos...
[13:31] Paula Dix: empathy? or thats only for some kind of more subtile emotions?
[13:31] BALDUR Joubert: could be sharing pleasure too paula
[13:31] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I have pondered on how terrible it wold be to lose a loved one to a certain accident and actually cringed at the thought
[13:32] herman Bergson: where people fall and hurt themselves.....and we are expected to find it funny to watch it...
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: why do people cry at the end of "Gone with the wind.."
[13:32] herman Bergson: No PAula....this IS about empathy indeed
[13:32] Paula Dix: yes herman thats terrible!
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: or feel glad when julia roberts gets richard gere
[13:32] Paula Dix: ok, so empathy names all the possibilities
[13:33] herman Bergson: yeah..that's better Baldur ^_^
[13:33] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I have always been baffled at the humor of America FavortieVideo clips
[13:33] herman Bergson: lol...I can imagine Aristotle....
[13:33] herman Bergson: the risks people take there...unbelievable
[13:33] Paula Dix: i dont know these videos but am imagining
[13:33] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the accidents make you flinch
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:34] herman Bergson: I find it horrible....
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: there you got your mirror neuronms ari
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and some folks find it funny
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: like jackass
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: they are insane
[13:34] herman Bergson: some in the videos definitely ^_^
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): jackass is an appropriate title
[13:35] Paula Dix: i know some people dont feel the others, but to do so with yourself!
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well actually this is also a brain issue...
[13:35] BALDUR Joubert: zeit an ein ruhiges plaetzchen zu denken..xxx
[13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, I wonder how the mirror neurons works in psychopaths
[13:35] herman Bergson: people that don;t feel fear have often deteriorated amygdalas
[13:36] Paula Dix: ah, interesting!
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: hmm ok
[13:36] herman Bergson: Problem is Aristotel...
[13:36] herman Bergson: that such things don't work in psychpats...
[13:36] herman Bergson: they can watch the face of a person they are strangling.....and dont feel the fear and panic of the other at all...they don't even see it
[13:37] herman Bergson: This also is due to a malfunction in the brain
[13:37] Paula Dix: can they loearn to identify the feelings?
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: shouldn't we rather say we don't know much about it yet..so we can'ttell about pschopaths
[13:37] Paula Dix: i dont know if you know the series Dexter
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, Dester is interesting
[13:37] herman Bergson: What is that Paula?
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Dexter*
[13:37] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): and people who have too much fear?
[13:38] Paula Dix: its about a guy who likes to kill
[13:38] Paula Dix: but he is adopted by a policeman who notices how he is while children
[13:38] Paula Dix: and train him to only kill people who deserves
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, he only kills killers
[13:38] Paula Dix: he is crazy for blood and works as a blood specialist on police
[13:39] herman Bergson: oh my policeman becomes judge an jury
[13:39] Paula Dix: its very interestng
[13:39] Paula Dix: his dad code makes him go after proof
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes he is that Herman, but tries to have a family at the same time
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: as interesting as why normal people became guards in auschwitz
[13:39] Paula Dix: and he is ultra inteligent, learn to mimic emotions and have a fake normal life
[13:40] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes Paula he adapts with his mimicry
[13:40] Paula Dix: i was wondering if this learning emotions is possible for them in real life
[13:40] herman Bergson: One thing is for sure....
[13:40] herman Bergson: these days lots of things are discovered about the brain
[13:40] herman Bergson: but believe me...we still know just a little of it...
[13:41] Paula Dix: lol yes, there are still people telling we use only 10% of brain
[13:41] herman Bergson: and here I not even want to mention the philosophical problems regarding consciousness....
[13:41] Paula Dix: maybe true in some cases
[13:41] herman Bergson: that is for a later date ^_^
[13:42] herman Bergson: The brain is like a universe Paula...
[13:42] herman Bergson: it contains as much neurons as stars in our galaxy...:-)
[13:42] Paula Dix: that will be interesting. i've been reading the site, finished up to august
[13:42] BALDUR Joubert: yes..and we are galileo at the moment
[13:42] Paula Dix: lol
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:42] herman Bergson: If we are lucky Baldur....if we are lucky...
[13:42] Paula Dix: its exciting!
[13:43] herman Bergson: But we are definitely making progress :-)
[13:43] Paula Dix: and most people says there is nothing going on!
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:43] herman Bergson: oh forget it....a LOT is going on....
[13:43] herman Bergson: but because it are small steps it doesn't reach the new papers
[13:44] Paula Dix: oh herman, have you read David Deutsch already? A friend was telling about him, seems very interesting
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: what's his subject paula
[13:44] Paula Dix: yes, and people just dont look for it...
[13:44] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): The problem I see in mapping the brain is its evolution, I doubt it can ever be completed
[13:44] herman Bergson: yes..who is he?
[13:44] Rodney Handrick: testing
[13:44] Paula Dix: he is a physician, but talks about philosophy also
[13:45] Paula Dix: he starts with multiverse, explains why he believes its real
[13:45] herman Bergson: Mapping the brain is a mega project Aristotle...
[13:45] BALDUR Joubert: evolution of the brain material will take thousand of years ari..
[13:45] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the flux of life
[13:45] Paula Dix: oh, sorry, physicist
[13:46] herman Bergson: I'll check out the name Paula :-)
[13:46] Paula Dix: there is something of him on TED, very nice
[13:46] herman Bergson: ah..ok
[13:46] BALDUR Joubert: natuaL Scientists making philosophical conclusions.. interesting but often misleading
[13:46] herman Bergson: Well...
[13:47] herman Bergson: I think in next lecture we will focus on the phenomenon of empathy...
[13:47] Paula Dix: the fabric of reality is his main book
[13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): that will be interesting Herman
[13:47] Paula Dix: lol ok, sorry for the detour
[13:47] herman Bergson: thx Paula...:-)
[13:47] herman Bergson: So ..thank you all for your participation again....
[13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): would be nice to find out who invented empathy
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:48] herman Bergson: Nice discussion....
[13:48] BALDUR Joubert: ty herman..
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: interesting once again ㋡
[13:48] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): very interesting
[13:48] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:48] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Thanks Professor
[13:48] Paula Dix: lol Ari
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: Thank You Professor - Interesting as always
[13:48] Cain Levasseur: thank you all its been an interesting class and debate
[13:48] herman Bergson: You are welcome Cain
[13:49] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): good to have you Cain
[13:49] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): come back
[13:49] Cain Levasseur: thanks

294: Another Rationalist's error

Modern moral philosophers generally agree that altruism is important to morality, although they disagree about what it is, how to explain it, and what its scope should be.

The nineteenth-century French theorist Auguste Comte, who first coined the term altruism, claimed that the way to end social conflict is by training people to “live for others,” rather than themselves.

In a popular sense, altruism means something like noble self-sacrifice. A more minimal understanding, one that many philosophers favor, is an acknowledgment that the interests of others make claims on us and limit what we may do.

David Hume in the eighteenth century characterizes altruism in terms of particular benevolent dispositions, desires, or affections. According to this view, you help others because you love them.

Hume also thought that we possess the capacity to act from sympathy. When you see someone in distress, sympathy leads you to feel distress, which in turn motivates you to alleviate your distress by alleviating theirs.

By contrast, philosophers in the Kantian tradition conceive of altruism as a rational requirement on action. They claim there is no need to postulate a benevolent desire to explain altruism.

To mention a contemporary view, the Dutch leader of the "Intelligent Design" moment states: " For sociobiology and evolutionary ethics altruistic behavior is biologically perverse and pathological, because it is against the very nature of man. But in most cultures and important religions real artistic behavior is regarded as a high ideal."

While Hume was closer to the truth than Kant, who claims the primacy of rationality, the statement of the ID supporter is ultimate nonsense.

Darwin already described how our moral sense originates from social instincts which are important for the survival of the group. You see it with all species which have to rely on co-operation, like primates, elephants or wolves.

An other prominent ID - supporter said in an interview in 2006: "Jesus says: Love God above all and your fellowman like yourself. That is a moral duty, a law which is hard to understand or scientifically investigate with research methods of physical sciences. And yet there exists a sense of good and evil".

Again wrong. To possess the ability of empathy, empathize with others, is the basis of all moral behavior and evolution has embedded this in our brain.

It is reasonable to assume that during evolution the willingness to help each other has evolved from the care of siblings to the care of members of the group.

Thus loyalty to the own family and then to the own community has evolved into a moral duty. When this is all taken care of the loyalty will expand to a region, a nation. One day maybe to even global loyalty.

Another iD supporter claimed that "[..] humans are the only primates which think about moral standards." Again a mistake. Most of the time we do't think at all about our actions, but we act fast and instinctively moral based on our biological makeup.

Afterwards we come up with a story, a justification of our actions, while the real source of the actions are neural networks in our brain.

It is proven, that our brain is often ahead of our consciousness and that our justification of an action comes after the brain already has made the decisions and pushed the right buttons.

The amygdala is an early evolutionary part of the brain, specialized among other things in the emotion of fear. The experiment is thus: a test person sees a picture of a face for no more than 33 milliseconds.

Some faces show fear , others joy or indifference, but you can't see that in 33 milliseconds…. Yet, the sensory system is that fast and with every sighting of a face expressing fear, the amygdala shows extra activity, although the test person says "I didn't see any expression in the faces."

Another interesting phenomenon - and I will get back to that in the next lecture - are 'mirror-neurons". These are neurons for a certain functions, for instants grabbing something. They fire when you grab something….but they also fire when you only SEE somebody grabbing something.

We'll continue next Tuesday…..thank you.


The Discussion

[13:25] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:25] herman Bergson: Ah Hope....did you miss a lot?
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: 19.20 second phrase . the basis od scientific understanding 19.22 right too....and all you said afterwords i agree---but where and how does your concept of morality fit intothe picture
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: smile you see i didn't miss a thing
[13:26] herman Bergson: basically…it is about the idea of altruism....
[13:26] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): interesting that after all the philosophers thoughts down the ages now it comes down to neurons
[13:27] herman Bergson: is the human being like Hobbes said....a wolf for his fellowmen...or like Hume did....feeling sympathy for the other
[13:27] BALDUR Joubert: altruism.. a necessity for a society whioxch raise it s youngs for a long time
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma...that excites me the most....
[13:27] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): or so the neuro folks say
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes loo
[13:28] herman Bergson: To say it in a blunt way..Hume was right , Kant was wrong...
[13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I am not convinced
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: kant knew what he knew..
[13:28] herman Bergson: Most interesting is that the prefrontal lob of the brain is the latest evolutionary part of the brain...
[13:29] herman Bergson: But....
[13:29] herman Bergson: It is also our ability to be rational...
[13:29] Mick Nerido: Where does conciousness fit in here?
[13:29] herman Bergson: However....in matters of altruism..other parts of the brain are active
[13:30] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the poking and proding of the celluar tissue still does not explain what initiates the unassisted poke
[13:30] herman Bergson: earlier evolutionary parts...
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: i think before anything rational..it was the fact that the brain could develop abstract thought which made it evolve
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: to say.. go beyond the survival aspects
[13:31] herman Bergson: A second...
[13:31] BALDUR Joubert: which are inborn
[13:31] herman Bergson: @MIck....
[13:31] herman Bergson: for the moment we leave out the discussion on consciousness....just a pragmatic choice
[13:31] herman Bergson: it will be discussed later in this course
[13:32] herman Bergson: You will be surprise dhat is innate in our brain Baldur.....
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: smile..
[13:32] herman Bergson: there was an experiment with 5 months old babies...
[13:32] herman Bergson: they were shown three pictures...
[13:32] herman Bergson: black and white....
[13:33] herman Bergson: picture one...a spider
[13:33] herman Bergson: picture two a spider but with all parts places wrongly
[13:33] herman Bergson: picture three a spider but all parts a bit random...
[13:34] herman Bergson: the amygdala of the babies fired at picture one.....
[13:34] herman Bergson: Well you might think...maybe they already had seen spiders or so...
[13:34] herman Bergson: thence test two
[13:34] herman Bergson: Picture one..a flower
[13:35] herman Bergson: picture two flowers but with parts displaced
[13:35] herman Bergson: picture three a flower with parts randomly places...
[13:35] herman Bergson: I made a mistake...it wasn't the amygdala that fired....
[13:36] herman Bergson: it was the length of time the babies looked with interest at the pictures...sorry...
[13:36] herman Bergson: only the spider picture kept them looking for a significant longer period of time...
[13:36] herman Bergson: You might say....
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): so their attention span was shorter on the irregular pictures?
[13:37] herman Bergson: ok...but we have no dangerous siders here...
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: friedrich I MADE experiments with new born babies.. around 1250.. to find out what humans are like.. and don't you trust all the experiments.. at least not all conclusions made.. experiments are made.. but knowledge of the brain is still inits baby shoes
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): span
[13:37] herman Bergson: yes ..on all other pictures...
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the inference is that they knew them to be false representations
[13:38] BALDUR Joubert: knew ari?
[13:38] Ciska Riverstone: someone tested that with stuff the mothers of the babys could not know because it doesn't exist in their part of the world?
[13:38] herman Bergson: The explanation can be that the homo sapiens comes from Africa...where there are a lot of dangerous spiders...
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): somehow?
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): so it is ingrained in us to fear spiders?
[13:38] BALDUR Joubert: WELL that i think is baloney
[13:39] herman Bergson: Well...the fear of spiders which is complete nonsense in Europe is still deeply embeded in our brain :-)
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i am not sure i think experiments with 5 month olds can be judged properly
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: so even if u havent seen a spider before u still know how one looks because its programmed in at birthh genetically?
[13:39] Ciska Riverstone: same me gemma
[13:40] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): hmmm, I am an anomaly, slipers and snakes only are on my rational radar
[13:40] myxtc: were these girl babies or boy babies?
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: no..herman.. i made the experience with my little sister..
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: life rl
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: and could prove that'it's a wrong assumption
[13:40] herman Bergson: Basic idea is that there is a lot innate in our brain
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): well that is anecdotal at best 1 person
[13:40] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): are you a bully Baldur?
[13:41] Mick Nerido: So children who recognized spider had a survival advantage?
[13:41] herman Bergson: That would be the conclusion Mick
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: hmm interesting
[13:41] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): interesting yes
[13:41] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): of course that makes Darwinian sense
[13:41] herman Bergson: Sure...
[13:41] Alexia Rodeyn: can you say they recognized spiders ?
[13:41] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): interesting
[13:41] Alexia Rodeyn: seems too much for a 5 months
[13:42] herman Bergson: No Alexia...they did not recognize spiders...that is a conscious act....
[13:42] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): and 5 month old infants are very varied in their progression
[13:42] herman Bergson: But recall what I said about the amygdala experiment....
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: if they have seen one before might be but if they never have seen one and still they can recognize a pic of it
[13:42] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): hmmm, something to think about for sure
[13:42] BALDUR Joubert: INNATE.. yes but what is innate and what is learned?
[13:43] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): wel maybe it is instinctual yes
[13:43] herman Bergson: No..it goes deeper....
[13:43] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I just love these jewels
[13:43] herman Bergson: in 33 miliseconds you are not able to see the expression on a face consciously....
[13:43] herman Bergson: Yet the brain reacts immediately...
[13:43] BALDUR Joubert: innate would mean genetically based.. learned wouldemean culturally
[13:43] herman Bergson: when it is an expression of fear
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: also interesting
[13:44] herman Bergson: Well you see it all the time....
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: lets look at language
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: we all think of language as words
[13:44] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): might be on the same level as animals knowing not to eat poisoness plants
[13:44] herman Bergson: take a herd of wilderbeasts....
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: but if i dont see the expression myself and was consious of it how could i then react
[13:44] herman Bergson: One starts to run.....did he see danger?....all follow....
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: but facial expressions -body expressions-- arfenot controlled by the mind
[13:45] herman Bergson: they dont bring it into vote first
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: but its like reflexes i guess however a reflex generate a response wich that woudnt do
[13:45] BALDUR Joubert: some might be genetical..some learned..
[13:45] herman Bergson: Yes Bejiita.....
[13:45] herman Bergson: Our brain is cheating on us all the time....
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: even if a part on my brain could react on it if im not consious of it i coundnt make my body react to it
[13:46] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the 33 milliseconds is like 'Danger Will Robinson'
[13:46] BALDUR Joubert: smile..that's where mirror neurons play a role.. not just for us humans
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: and just would say " i didnt see any expressions at all"
[13:46] herman Bergson: Let me give you an example.....
[13:46] herman Bergson: Stereo....
[13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): this ability has to be ancient
[13:47] herman Bergson: Stereo...
[13:47] Mick Nerido: So our kind of brain is an inevitable evolutionary adapation?
[13:47] BALDUR Joubert: like radar for bats?
[13:47] herman Bergson: You hear a sound move from the right box to the left speaker box
[13:47] BALDUR Joubert: sorry sonar
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: yes that i can very clearly hear if it does
[13:47] herman Bergson: what really happens is that there is a sound to the left and then to the right....
[13:48] herman Bergson: you would believe that you first hear the left speaker box and then the right....
[13:48] herman Bergson: But that isnt the case at all....
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:49] BALDUR Joubert: we're a lousy species compared to what we find in other animals-as far as senses are concerned
[13:49] herman Bergson: your brain filled in the tones between left and right as if you hear the sound move and your conscious then comes up wth the story you hear the sound move from left to right
[13:49] Mick Nerido: Yes but we build machines to extend our senses
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: i think it have something to do with even if sound moves very fast the brain can detect which ear recieved it firt
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: because even if i hear a sound equally strong in both ears I can still hear where it comes from
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: left or right
[13:50] BALDUR Joubert: smile..not toextend.. in a way tocheat on our senses which cheat on us lol
[13:50] herman Bergson: the basic fact is that consiousness cooks up stories which are only explanations afterwards....
[13:50] herman Bergson: We will get to that issue later...
[13:50] BALDUR Joubert: conciousness..you said we talk about that later
[13:51] herman Bergson: Neurobiologists even claim that free will is a delusion...
[13:51] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): 'covering our tracks' LOL
[13:51] herman Bergson: When you decide to raise your arm...the brain already has pushed all the buttons before you can say "I gonna raise my arm"
[13:51] Mick Nerido: Biocenterism claimes reality is only real to an observer
[13:51] BALDUR Joubert: maybe not a delusion..but has to be defined in a new way..and not on the basis of the ancients
[13:52] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): these neurobiologist are a peculiar lot :)
[13:52] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I suspect they will be in charge someday
[13:52] herman Bergson: Yes aristotle,they are....
[13:52] herman Bergson: We will see a lot more of them :-)
[13:53] BALDUR Joubert: ari.,.when they have to face the physics they have to rethink again
[13:53] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): knowledge is power, power is dangerous
[13:53] Mick Nerido: The brain is a frontier yet
[13:53] herman Bergson: no..power isn't dangerous at all Aristotle...
[13:54] herman Bergson: The use of power can be dangerous
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: just need to use it right
[13:54] BALDUR Joubert: as we are talking about molecules..and in physics they search for belowt he moleculesneurobiologists are working with
[13:54] Mick Nerido: Who decides right?
[13:54] herman Bergson: Yes Mick...that is the goal of this project...to be at that frontier
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: its like a chainsaw or knife and such, if u use it right its not dangerous
[13:54] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): LOL, so far who has been able to resist corruption?
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: u just need how to use it right
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: good question mick
[13:55] Mick Nerido: I think right actions change with what is needed
[13:55] BALDUR Joubert: ari..mankind has only a couple of years in worldhistory. so corruption can't be eliminated that quickly
[13:56] BALDUR Joubert: which is nothing else than profit for one's self..or a group
[13:56] herman Bergson: OK...I guess we have got the picture....
[13:56] herman Bergson: overwhelming problems to solve and questions to answer :-)
[13:56] Mick Nerido: This SL reality is a new frontier also
[13:57] herman Bergson: We'll discuss that later Mick ^_^
[13:57] Mick Nerido: Thnx for a good lecture thanks
[13:57] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:57] herman Bergson: I think that we 'll cool down a bit for the moment and move on to the next lecture on Tuesday dealing with mirror-neurons
[13:58] Bejiita Imako: oki
[13:58] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i must go! see tuesday! thanks, all classes brains :-)
[13:58] herman Bergson: Thank you all for your participation....
[13:58] herman Bergson: class dismissed
[13:58] Bejiita Imako: interesting start ㋡
[13:58] Bejiita Imako: look forward for more
[13:58] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:58] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Thanks Professor, intrigueing as always
[13:58] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:58] Alarice Beaumont: interesting subjects....
[13:58] Bejiita Imako: indeed
[13:58] Alarice Beaumont: thanks a lot Herman :-)
[13:58] Alexia Rodeyn: thank you herman, very interesting
[13:58] Ciska Riverstone: interesting ja
[13:58] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman:)
[13:58] herman Bergson: thank you.....
[13:58] Mick Nerido: Thanks
[13:59] BALDUR Joubert: thank you herman.. smile..
[13:59] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): good bye everyone
[13:59] Bejiita Imako: cu soon again ㋡
[13:59] Ciska Riverstone: bye everyone
[13:59] Alarice Beaumont: is class again next tuesday Herman?
[13:59] Alexia Rodeyn: bye all
[13:59] Alarice Beaumont: bye Alexia
[13:59] herman Bergson: Sure Alarice....
[14:00] Alarice Beaumont: oh great
[14:00] Alarice Beaumont: hope to see you then
[14:00] Mick Nerido: Very interesting
[14:00] herman Bergson: I am glad you enjoyed it Mick
[14:00] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): have a goodnight
[14:00] Mick Nerido: I'll be back again
[14:01] herman Bergson: Look who comes in on time...Rodney!!!!..Happy New Year ^_^
[14:01] herman Bergson: You are always welcome Mick
[14:02] Rodney Handrick: Happy New Year to you as well Herman

293: A summary

Welcome to you all again in 2011. I hope that it will be an instructive year again. A year in which we soon will pass the 300 mark regarding the number of lectures

And a year that will show that it makes a lot of sense to add at least another 300 lectures to our philosophical quest of which I'll give a summary of what we have found so far and an impression of where we are heading for.

In my introduction of the project in September 2010 I said, that the lectures and the research for them will be more of a test, a searching for the answer whether the materialist view is tenable or not, to clarify the arguments in favor and against this view.

For now we will not discuss materialism, but take it for granted. First we started our the Mystery of the Brain from the point of view, that I am my brain.

Although this means that only nature has real (scientific) meaning for me, we all know that our beliefs are not only derived from science. A lot are derived from religious ideas or supernatural ideas like reincarnation, astrology, clairvoyance, tarot readings and so on.

It confronted us with the question "Why do we believe the Unbelievable?" I asserted that beliefs which rely on mechanisms and phenomena that go beyond our understanding of nature belong in the realm of supernatural beliefs. Beliefs that defy any test of their truth, like we can test scientific beliefs and hypotheses by falsifying them.

Because I am my brain, supernatural beliefs can only be generated by my own brain; that is the real source. Based on that conclusion some thinkers even plead for abolishing any religious education. You know the names …..Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and others.

However, if our brain is a product of evolution and has been our sole means to survive, then upholding supernatural beliefs must have been part of this evolutionary process.

Bruce Hood questions the necessity of trying to ban all supernatural beliefs, and in this I agree with him. It is part of the wiring of our brain and it must have had a function in evolution. And it still has. To be honest…I love weird supernatural beliefs. They are the poetry in our life.

The human species is a social animal. We need the group to survive and a group is only a group, if the individuals share certain beliefs with each other. As history shows, supernatural beliefs played and still play an important role in establishing cohesion in a group.

Our next station was the fifth revolution. Through history a number of revolutions have completely transformed the view on ourselves.

We were not the center of the universe. We were not created as we are now, but the result of millions of years of evolution. We are not such rational beings as we believed. It showed that we are controlled by all kinds of subconscious drives.

We were not who we are by coincidence. Our DNA contains the perfect set of building blocks that makes us who we are and which can be modified decisively by genetic manipulations. We are makeable…

And now the realm of the supernatural has fallen in the hands of science. We learn, that we are our brain, that a lot of ideas of which we believed had real existence are only the product of the brain.

First we looked deep into space with a telescope,, then we were dug deep in the ground on archeological sites, next we looked inward into ourself. The microscope was our next resting place and now we lay in fMRI-scanners and PET-scanners.

Now we follow the lead of the biology of the brain. What was regarded as spiritual experiences can be reproduced by magnetically stimulating the brain.

Our moral beliefs and convictions are put under the fMRI - scanner and moral decision processes are mapped in the brain. It appears that from our birth on we posses a series of universal principles, which then are molded by cultural influences.

Moreover there seems to be increasing evidence that the two hemispheres of the brain ( the rational and the emotional) are competing with each other, when we make moral decisions.

Our next station will be the question how feeling happy is wired into our brain and we'll discuss a number of other neurological discoveries, but do't think that this is the science of mind and the end of the philosophy of mind.

Philosophy in this field has become an interdisciplinary operation and believe me, in spite of all great scientific discoveries and insights, at the end we'll left behind with fundamental philosophical questions.

But I want to show you what insights have been reached in the past 30 years. It is too exciting. Only in 1986 the term 'neurophilosophy' was coined. We have to looking that…ind int so many other things still.

I am glad they opened up a whole new year for us, for we gonna need it!


The Discussion

[2011/01/04 13:27] herman Bergson: Sorry for the lengthy text...:-)
[2011/01/04 13:28] herman Bergson: Thank you
[2011/01/04 13:28] herman Bergson: It seemed to have killed Alexia :-)
[2011/01/04 13:28] BALDUR Joubert: smile .. if you said the more we know the more we know what we don't know i agree with you herman
[2011/01/04 13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): good summation
[2011/01/04 13:28] herman Bergson: thank you Gemma
[2011/01/04 13:29] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur....
[2011/01/04 13:29] herman Bergson: When we come to the real philosophical questions...really...we dont have the answers
[2011/01/04 13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): It is in my mind often now as to how the enormous changes in technology and the use of all the new gadgets will affect evolution of the mind
[2011/01/04 13:29] BALDUR Joubert: and i agree that philosophy has to deal with interdisciplinary science..
[2011/01/04 13:30] herman Bergson: Well..I think that our knowledge of evolution causes a problem...
[2011/01/04 13:30] BALDUR Joubert: 4 years ago i discussed with a philosopher the importance of historical knowledge
[2011/01/04 13:30] herman Bergson: We live fast and we think fast....
[2011/01/04 13:30] herman Bergson: but evolution needs tenthousands of years to establish a single change...
[2011/01/04 13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): are we sure ... that that time will not also speed up
[2011/01/04 13:31] BALDUR Joubert: did man -genetically-change inthe last 50000 years?
[2011/01/04 13:32] herman Bergson: I don't know Baldur
[2011/01/04 13:32] herman Bergson: But maybe he did
[2011/01/04 13:32] BALDUR Joubert: well.. there are few indices for that.. so its not evolution of man.. but evolution of culture.. to say knowledge and society
[2011/01/04 13:32] herman Bergson: Longlivety for instance is a genetically determined matter
[2011/01/04 13:33] Alexia Rodeyn: people might have seen progress running that fast in past times too
[2011/01/04 13:33] BALDUR Joubert: well from what i know its not genetic but medicine.. food..environment
[2011/01/04 13:33] herman Bergson: if the number of people increase with that quality....reaching ages like 88 to 95....
[2011/01/04 13:34] herman Bergson: Yes Alexia...but in relation toevolution these are only marginal and only technological changes
[2011/01/04 13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yesterday i heard they have found a woman who may be 157 years old
[2011/01/04 13:34] BALDUR Joubert: poor girl..lol
[2011/01/04 13:34] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): how can they tell she is that old?
[2011/01/04 13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ‚ô• LOL ‚ô•
[2011/01/04 13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i say so too
[2011/01/04 13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): they are studying
[2011/01/04 13:35] herman Bergson: such an individual instance is irrelevant...nice for the News media...that is all
[2011/01/04 13:35] BALDUR Joubert: as for cultural evolution..just study the behaviour of our ancestors 30 000 years ago and today.. tribalwars.. religious wars.. power structures.. nothing new for mankind
[2011/01/04 13:35] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): looking at her teeth???..
[2011/01/04 13:36] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ‚ô• LOL ‚ô•
[2011/01/04 13:36] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): beertje
[2011/01/04 13:36] herman Bergson: You are right to some extend Baldur...
[2011/01/04 13:36] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): her family
[2011/01/04 13:36] herman Bergson: In fact you see all stages of social evolution in this world....
[2011/01/04 13:36] herman Bergson: from primitive tribal behavior to rational individualistic behavior
[2011/01/04 13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes from the jungles of south america to the thinking capitals of the work
[2011/01/04 13:37] BALDUR Joubert: glad you call the bush policies primitve tribalbehaviours:)
[2011/01/04 13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ‚ô• LOL ‚ô•
[2011/01/04 13:37] herman Bergson: lol..ok..Baldur...
[2011/01/04 13:37] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): lol
[2011/01/04 13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): very true
[2011/01/04 13:37] Alexia Rodeyn: i will have to agree with Baldur on that , i feel that only the tools and technologies have changed
[2011/01/04 13:38] herman Bergson: I dont agree with that Alexia....
[2011/01/04 13:38] BALDUR Joubert: no.. there i disagree.. we a re a learning species..
[2011/01/04 13:38] herman Bergson: Our social behavior has changed too
[2011/01/04 13:38] BALDUR Joubert: cause we have a memory..
[2011/01/04 13:39] herman Bergson: not globally, but certainly insocieties which are science oriented
[2011/01/04 13:39] BALDUR Joubert: aren't we the result of what has been said and thought bevore us'
[2011/01/04 13:39] herman Bergson: Certainly Baldur....the better scientific insights the better we understand the world
[2011/01/04 13:40] BALDUR Joubert: memory. language and then writing are what we are made of.. brainwise:)
[2011/01/04 13:40] herman Bergson: Sure....what counts is what is in that memory and what is written down....
[2011/01/04 13:41] herman Bergson: and in that respect scientific insights shape a lot of our world perception
[2011/01/04 13:41] BALDUR Joubert: and what is transferred to new generations
[2011/01/04 13:41] herman Bergson: That has been shown by history Baldur...
[2011/01/04 13:41] BALDUR Joubert: scientific inside is of no value for someone who was taught that the world was created 5600 years ago
[2011/01/04 13:41] herman Bergson: The scientific revolution began in the 17th century....
[2011/01/04 13:42] herman Bergson: when religious explanations of relaity were abandoned
[2011/01/04 13:42] BALDUR Joubert: should we say questionned
[2011/01/04 13:43] herman Bergson: on the one hand now we have people that believe that the world will be a better place
[2011/01/04 13:43] herman Bergson: with more medical car, education, ecological production of food....
[2011/01/04 13:44] herman Bergson: and on the other hand we have people who believe the world will be a better place by blowing up themselves in a marketplace or in a church
[2011/01/04 13:44] BALDUR Joubert: smile.. the problems the philosophers never dared to touch are emotions.. love.. laughter.. and more
[2011/01/04 13:44] herman Bergson: Well...if it is about laughter....Aristotle already wrote about it...
[2011/01/04 13:45] BALDUR Joubert: we don't have the text.. just that he wrote about it or am i wrong
[2011/01/04 13:45] herman Bergson: To keep that secret the monestary in The Name of the `rose burned down ^_^
[2011/01/04 13:46] BALDUR Joubert: i think it was a interesting subject of the book-and film
[2011/01/04 13:46] herman Bergson: The Name of the Rose by Umberto Ecco....also a great movie staring Sean Connery!
[2011/01/04 13:46] BALDUR Joubert: church and love and laughter.. just a thing for the popes in the middle ages and even later..
[2011/01/04 13:47] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): seems i read that
[2011/01/04 13:47] BALDUR Joubert: well..they didn't have a condom problem lol
[2011/01/04 13:47] herman Bergson: Well..let's look into the future....
[2011/01/04 13:48] herman Bergson: some people hope that there will be no church anymore....
[2011/01/04 13:48] herman Bergson: no monotheistic fanatism...
[2011/01/04 13:48] herman Bergson: but real insight in the human condition
[2011/01/04 13:48] BALDUR Joubert: empathy.. mirror neurons:)
[2011/01/04 13:49] herman Bergson: GREAT Baldur...!!!! The right words
[2011/01/04 13:49] herman Bergson: Empathy IS wired into our brain!!!!
[2011/01/04 13:49] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes it is
[2011/01/04 13:49] BALDUR Joubert: i agree.. and not just ours
[2011/01/04 13:49] herman Bergson: OK…Next lecture will be about altruism....
[2011/01/04 13:50] herman Bergson: is it a product of education or is it a real part of the organism....
[2011/01/04 13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): hmmmm
[2011/01/04 13:50] herman Bergson: Yes..fascinating question....
[2011/01/04 13:50] BALDUR Joubert: thank you herman.. sorry i was overpresent tonight.. just too much time over the holidays to think:)
[2011/01/04 13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ‚ô• Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ‚ô•
[2011/01/04 13:50] herman Bergson: smiles...
[2011/01/04 13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): see you thursday I hope i get home in time
[2011/01/04 13:51] BALDUR Joubert: snow gemma?
[2011/01/04 13:51] herman Bergson: thank you Baldur....You get your lecture next Thursday!
[2011/01/04 13:51] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye „ã°
[2011/01/04 13:51] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): all
[2011/01/04 13:51] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ‚ô• Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ‚ô•
[2011/01/04 13:51] herman Bergson: Bye Gemma...I am moved by your loyalty to the class
[2011/01/04 13:51] herman Bergson: :-(.... and that remark she missed...
[2011/01/04 13:52] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): sorry that i didn't say much..i needed my dictionary
[2011/01/04 13:53] BALDUR Joubert: now you can talk beertje:)
[2011/01/04 13:53] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): lol..
[2011/01/04 13:53] herman Bergson: It is not primarily important what you say, Beertje....what is important is what you think...:-)
[2011/01/04 13:53] herman Bergson: But if you want to tell us what you think...go ahead
[2011/01/04 13:53] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): no..i have to think about that
[2011/01/04 13:54] herman Bergson: smiles..
[2011/01/04 13:54] herman Bergson: Thank you all for your paricipation...
[2011/01/04 13:54] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thanks herman: -) for, 2009, 2010 and 2011: -) it is good to think WITH you
[2011/01/04 13:54] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[2011/01/04 13:54] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye all :-) see u!!
[2011/01/04 13:54] herman Bergson: See you next Thursday in a lecture on Altruism...dedicated to Baldur :-)
[2011/01/04 13:55] herman Bergson: Bye Bergie
[2011/01/04 13:55] Alexia Rodeyn: is the class at the same time on Thursday ?
[2011/01/04 13:55] BALDUR Joubert: thank you.. and i'll follow up with egoism lol
[2011/01/04 13:55] Alexia Rodeyn: lol
[2011/01/04 13:56] herman Bergson: Yes Alexia..
[2011/01/04 13:56] herman Bergson: every Tuesday and Thursday at 1 PM PST
[2011/01/04 13:56] Alexia Rodeyn: Baldur gave me the link to your blog
[2011/01/04 13:56] BALDUR Joubert: isn't he a nice guy:)
[2011/01/04 13:57] herman Bergson: wow...cool
[2011/01/04 13:57] Alexia Rodeyn: i have still very much to read about your previous topics
[2011/01/04 13:57] herman Bergson: yes...30 lectures :-)
[2011/01/04 13:57] BALDUR Joubert: i thought we were close to 300
[2011/01/04 13:57] Alexia Rodeyn: but that will be a nice dare for me as a person who calls her a tech nerd
[2011/01/04 13:57] Alexia Rodeyn: »ò)
[2011/01/04 13:58] herman Bergson: ok..:-)
[2011/01/04 13:58] herman Bergson: Give it a try Alexia
[2011/01/04 13:58] BALDUR Joubert: don;t dare her herman..she might lol
[2011/01/04 13:59] Alexia Rodeyn: i will
[2011/01/04 13:59] herman Bergson: She is welcome Baldur :-)
[2011/01/04 13:59] Alexia Rodeyn: was nice meeting you , see you on thursday then
[2011/01/04 13:59] Alexia Rodeyn: bye
[2011/01/04 13:59] BALDUR Joubert: yes..but when she is acquainted with the topics..its propably the moment i have to retire lol
[2011/01/04 14:00] herman Bergson: You are welcome Alexia
[2011/01/04 14:01] BALDUR Joubert: pity we have never enough time to discuss details..but -a compliment to you.. i might go back to university and take some history and philo classes:)
[2011/01/04 14:02] herman Bergson: thank you Baldur...
[2011/01/04 14:02] herman Bergson: You arent getting rusty are you....???!!!
[2011/01/04 14:02] BALDUR Joubert: lol.. i am.. that's why i thought of that..
[2011/01/04 14:03] BALDUR Joubert: ok.. got to go and talk to my friend.. see you thursday.