When you try to understand what world we live in today, just look at the 20th century.
US president Trump isn't the cause of anything. He is THE symptom of what is going on these days: the world as one big business deal.
What is happening to the Western World may be traced back to a man like Mikhail Gorbachev and November 9,1989, when the wall in Berlin fell.
The message to all CEOs of the multinationals was a big Hurray! Capitalism had won eventually. Haven't we always said that we were right, they must have thought?
After World War II in several European countries there were developments, which can be referred to as "the welfare state".
The basic idea behind it was to give everybody in society an equal chance,
independent of how rich or poor you were. Only based on the talents you had to offer to society.
I myself am an example of this. My parents weren't rich. Certainly unable to pay for a college education for me.
Yet I became a college professor myself for 30 years thanks to the governmental support to finance my education. That is how I paid back to society and I am proud of it.
What we see these days, at least in the Netherlands, is a return to primitive capitalism. You have chances in society only when you have money.
Worldwide we see an increasing gap between the poor and the rich and all this is caused by the conviction, that liberalism has won.
Yet, in the early 20s of the 20th century people understood, what the dangers were of plain capitalism.
Of course we had Marx. We saw the rise of communism and revolutions, which however ended in totalitarian states..
At this moment we have to ask the question, is global capitalism a threat to democracy?
In 1962 at the age of 82 Richard Tawney died, an English economic historian, social critic, ethical socialist.
He wrote a few books and the titles are telling enough: The Acquisitive Society (1921), Religion and the Rise of Capitalism (192.6) and Equality (1931)
After the war (WW I) Tawney expected capitalism to disappear. With its pursuit of the highest possible production and profit,
he thought it was the means to an end, the goal itself. Thus it appealed to the wrong, that is, materialistic instincts of man.
As a very religious man, Tawney believed that materialism was not in line with human nature.
It would suffocate the need for servitude and solidarity, the basis of traditional bourgeois culture.
The weirdest thing in this world is, that people accumulate property and money
and call the moral principle to share with those who are for many reasons not so fortunate, leftist or socialism.
In the US being a 'socialist' is kind of equal to being an "atheist', is my impression. In other words...the worst there is on earth.
In time, capitalism will erode the whole civilization. Under capitalism, according to Tawney, civilization had become primarily a private matter.
And since individualism irrevocably led to greater inequality, the sense of community would be lost.
The notion of civilization then acquired a completely different meaning: no longer an inner attitude, but subordinate to materialistic factors.
These are the observations of a man from the previous century and I cannot ignore the feeling, that he has a point.....
Thank you for your attention again :-)
The Discussion
[13:17] herman Bergson: The floor is yours....
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:18] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:19] CB Axel: Communism may have ended in totalitarian states, but capitalism seems to be heading in the same direction.
[13:19] herman Bergson: If you look at the US today..you got a point CB :-)
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i was really worried when Trump said that "Ok you murdered that journalist but we will still sell weapons to you to protect our jobs (even our weapons will be used by terrorists and create even more suffering refugees wich we want nothing to do with of course!)
[13:20] herman Bergson: Europe looks quite safe still
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in other words Trump supports export of weapons to places where they will continue to drive the war/refugee/suffer spiral just to make money
[13:20] herman Bergson: It was the most horrible thing he ever said Bejiita
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): That is soooo insane! :(
[13:21] herman Bergson: It was Capitalism to the utmost
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and there are other better jobs then make weapons for sure
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or is thats all they make in the US?
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): killing machinery
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wich is a big source to all the terror in the world today
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all because of greed
[13:22] CB Axel: Killing people is something we seem to excel at in the US.
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if we stopped doing that w would live a la star trek since long but when all development and money goes to blowing each other up
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I dont get it
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): why we don't realize this
[13:24] herman Bergson: That's because we are human, Bejiita :-))
[13:24] herman Bergson: As you may have noticed..to be human is quite a stupid business :-0)
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): still not logical, Ok what do i want humanitys goal to be, go into space and be able to live there, cure sicknessess ect or wipe ourselves out from the planet
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the latter seem to be the case
[13:25] CB Axel: That would solve everything.
[13:25] herman Bergson: The main goal of mankind is to share....which we are unable to due to our greed
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something have gotten sooo wrong somewhere
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and now we don't realize it but instead continue on with it
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): n wrong direction
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): worrying it is
[13:26] herman Bergson: Your remark makes me smile Bejiita
[13:27] herman Bergson: and makes me think of Yuval Harari...
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:27] herman Bergson: He wrote that man was somewhere in the middle of the food chain,..like chimps are
[13:28] herman Bergson: then there emerged homo sapiens....
[13:28] herman Bergson: and all of a sudden he was at the top of the food chain...destabelizing everything on this globe :-)
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): like a virus:)
[13:29] herman Bergson: so..what went wrong...? :-)
[13:29] herman Bergson: Smart move Beertje....
[13:29] herman Bergson: That is what some people said indeed.....we are a virus,...a cancer to this planet
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): many of us are for sure
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): luckily many are i the other directio but evil seems to win for now
[13:30] herman Bergson: Slow down BEjiita...be gentle :-))
[13:30] herman Bergson: We aren't that bad :-))
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): most of us are kind hopefully
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but still, destroying nature, blowing each other up ect., that have to stop completely
[13:32] herman Bergson: But the main point of today is..
[13:32] herman Bergson: that in the 20s of the previous century
[13:33] CB Axel: Poor Bejiita. He used to be probably the most optimistic person in this group, and now he's becoming as cynical as I.
[13:33] herman Bergson: a man already saw that plain capitalism would destroy social solidarity....
[13:33] herman Bergson: the drive to let have everyone an equal chance in society
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well greed and capitalism are no good things
[13:34] herman Bergson: to share wealth...
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats important
[13:34] CB Axel: Greed and communism was a bad mix, too.
[13:34] herman Bergson: to offer everyone medical care without question...
[13:34] Bree Birke is online.
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): communism is no pretty either
[13:34] herman Bergson: this is not about Communism....
[13:35] herman Bergson: this is about the social will to share....to respect the weak and less gifted in our society
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:36] CB Axel: So, something in between capitalism and communism?
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): who was this man Herman?
[13:36] CB Axel: Or something entirely new?
[13:36] herman Bergson: Those in the 20th century saw this....and today it seems that we are forgetting this lesson of the past
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something nothing of those 2 but something different id say
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something better
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Herman
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): seems indeed so
[13:37] herman Bergson: So that is the lesson of today....
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least we all realizes the good things
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): who are in here
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:38] herman Bergson: In a way I really feel sad about this all...
[13:38] herman Bergson: How capitalism has become the rule
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i just hope it will turn soon because indeed now feels like going in wrong direction
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and capitalism is driving lot of it
[13:40] herman Bergson: Guess we solved all problems for today :-))
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki time to head back to Burn a while
[13:40] herman Bergson: so unless you have any more questions or remaks...?
[13:40] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-))
[13:40] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu all soon
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hugs ㋡
[13:41] herman Bergson: Thank you all again for your participation
[13:41] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:41] Ciska Riverstone: thanx everyone
[13:41] CB Axel: See you Thursday.
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
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