Thursday, November 14, 2019

811: We're all Family.....

While the genetic difference between individual humans today is minuscule – about 0.1%, on average – 
study of the same aspects of the chimpanzee genome indicates a difference of about 1.2%. 
The bonobo (Pan paniscus), which is the close cousin of chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes), differs from humans to the same degree. 
(Source: Genetics | The Smithsonian Institution's Human Origins Program)
In 1871 Charles Darwin surmised that humans were evolutionarily closer to the African apes than to any other species alive.
Just Google on "jokes on Darwinism" and within 0.47 seconds you get 465.000 hits.
The cartoons of Darwin show that the observation, that we were part of the animal kingdom was pretty cognitive dissonant in those days.
However, with the discovery of DNA and genetics since 1954 it simply became an irrefutable fact, what our place in nature and evolution is.
The conclusion, that we definitely are a member of the evolutionary family tree of primates, had a serious impact on sciences like psychology, sociology, cultural antropology and biology.
In the 1970s books were published, which tried to tell the story of man by showing by analogy how man behaved just like the chimps in the zoo. Well, not that literally of course :-)
Robert Ardrey (1908 –  1980) was such a story teller, an American playwright, screenwriter and science writer.
"The Social Contract: A Personal Inquiry into the Evolutionary Sources of Order and Disorder" is a 1970 book by him. It is the third in his four-book Nature of Man Series.
Ardrey is explicitly supporting a number of ideas based on the fundamental principle that man possibly faces evolutionary disaster if he cannot find ways to live in accord with his innate biological heritage. 
Ardrey finds that the increasing complexity of industrial society is warping human behaviour in such a manner that  fundamental human drives are contradicted or given little chance for expression.
 It is this attitude toward society which led Ardrey to dedicate his book to Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1762). Ardrey is in fundamental sympathy with Rousseau's arcadian utopianism 
although he cannot accept Rousseau's belief that there was a time before the social contract brought natural man into the restrictive orbit of unnatural society. 
Ardrey maintains that society is the natural condition of man and that the basic conditions for society are written into human genes. 
He therefore seeks to define the natural condition of man by reference to the natural conditions of society 
and he does so mainly through an examination of the nature of non-human societies especially those of the other primates.
He refers to a number of innate needs which he believes exist in man and which account for the nature of human society,
but most of his examples are taken from animal behaviour studies. There are three innate needs, common to men and all higher animals.
There is identity as opposed to anonymity, stimulation as opposed to boredom and there is security as opposed to anxiety. 

This way of thinking about man became popular in the 1970s. Just think of Desmond Morris and his book "The Naked Ape" (1967).
-QUOTE- There are one hundred and ninety-three living species of monkeys and apes. One hundred and ninety-two of them are covered with hair. 
The exception is a naked ape self-named Homo sapiens. This unusual and highly successful species spends a great deal of time 
examining his higher motives and an equal amount of time studiously ignoring his fundamental ones. -END QUOTE-
Or Gordon Rattray Taylor with "The biological Time Bomb (1968). Taylor boldly claims that the living world of increasing complexity is not one of mere chance and material determinism, 
or the result of a divine plan and vital force. Instead, he strongly suggests that life is ordered through some internal genetic mechanism.
In the previous century these were all new ideas. For us, at least for me anno 2019 it is common knowledge.
Thank you for your attention....

The Discussion

[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:20] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:20] herman Bergson: Again an important legacy of the 20th century
[13:21] CB Axel: I think "industrial society" is making me more ape-like in that it makes me want to throw my feces at certain people. :)
[13:22] herman Bergson: Just  relate these scientific insights with the growing secularization for instance
[13:22] herman Bergson: That sounds good CB
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:22] herman Bergson: for all these writers suggest that we are losing some natural state
[13:23] herman Bergson: A natural way of being which is embedded in our genes
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think we do , with all the industrials food we eat
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well living I concrete jungles and being inside offices and factories all day is not really what we were made for so to say
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): from start
[13:24] herman Bergson: Well, biological farming might be a response to that indeed
[13:24] CB Axel: For people living in large cities I think that's very true.
[13:24] CB Axel: Large cities seem to make us less social.
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes, I read something about that too CB
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:25] CB Axel: Oh. I was thinking of what I've observed myself.
[13:25] herman Bergson: Sure...guess we all can observe it....
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that can be very true, Here in Stockholm many look down on those not living there calling them "bonndjävlar" (bloody damn farmers)
[13:26] herman Bergson: I just read something about this theme in my newspaper last week too
[13:26] CB Axel: The town I live in isn't a very big city. At least, not to me. But we love farmers. :)
[13:27] CB Axel: Anyone who eats food should love farmers.
[13:27] herman Bergson: But is it really in our genes that we'd  better not live in large cities?
[13:27] CB Axel: Even if they do tend to vote conservative.
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I myself think its nice to go there now and then but I could not live like that in concrete skyscrapers and nothing but gray concrete and traffic noise 24/7
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I m more a suburban dude, a little city and a little nature, and here where I live is perfect,
[13:28] Ciska Riverstone:
[13:28] herman Bergson: Same here, Bejiita ^_^
[13:28] CB Axel: I wonder what happens to groups of chimps when the group gets too large.
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well I've lived here since I was 4 also so but still
[13:28] herman Bergson: I think they split up, CB
[13:28] CB Axel: I'd love to live in New York City, but I'd need to be near Central Park. :)
[13:29] herman Bergson: oops, expensive dreams CB :-)
[13:29] CB Axel: :)
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:29] herman Bergson: What is interesting to notice is
[13:30] herman Bergson: that none of us gets upset when we claim that we are part of the animal kingdom :-)
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): of course not
[13:30] herman Bergson: Only serious religious people could have problems with the idea, I guess
[13:30] CB Axel: Yes. Some still do.
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the Darwin deniers
[13:31] herman Bergson: Well...Beertje ...when the idea was introduced it wasn't a matter of "of course" at all
[13:31] CB Axel: The science deniers.
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ah :)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and flat earthers
[13:31] herman Bergson: just look at the cartoons behind me :-)
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa those are classics
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:31] herman Bergson: ohh that flat earth idea....
[13:32] herman Bergson: may I tell you that since the Middle Ages people KNEW that the earth was round...
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes, believing that any image from space is made in a studio or on a computer and that there is no real images of out planet and space
[13:32] herman Bergson: Only in the 18th century this flat earth was introduced by the church against the increasing power of science
[13:33] herman Bergson: so it is a complete nonsense idea
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sigh
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:33] herman Bergson: just a trick.....
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why would this church say taht?
[13:36] CB Axel: Here's a fun picture of what the solar system must look like to flat earthers.
[13:36] herman Bergson: To be honest I forgot the precise motivation, Beertje :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ow:)
[13:36] Second Life: CB Axel gave you This Is Awkward.
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol, CB..that is a fine pic:)
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahahaha
[13:37] CB Axel: Since Galileo people could see that planets are round. So why would anyone think the Earth is flat?
[13:37] CB Axel: So stupid.
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes indeed....and most people didn't believe that the earth was flat....
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and even many have probably flown before, but u can not see the curvature from around 13000 m more then slightly, I can't anyway, I must get to at least double that to see it clearly
[13:38] CB Axel: I think it's a case of willful ignorance. They believe it because they want to believe it.
[13:38] herman Bergson: That it was round was common knowledge in the Middle Ages
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): = out in space
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so claiming that the earth is flat because they can't see it from a plane even
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because u cant
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): be careful when you dig a hole in the ground, maybe you will fall into space
[13:40] CB Axel: LOL
[13:40] herman Bergson: Like people who claim that we are not the product of evolution the flat earthers have a lot of (useless) explaining to do :-)
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also a classic
[13:40] CB Axel: No, you'd just dig down to the turtle that holds us up.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha¨
[13:40] Laz Dresler is online.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its turtles all way down!
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:40] CB Axel: They don't explain it. They just say that God made it that way.
[13:40] Ciska Riverstone: true cb - I was biting my tongue to not say it
[13:40] CB Axel: LOL, Ciska.
[13:41] herman Bergson: Ahh...I forgot about the great Creator....
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its like audio snake oil vendors when they try selling u a digital cable for as much as a new car  igoring that a computer is way more sensitive for bit errors then our ears are
[13:41] CB Axel: Well, that's what the church was afraid of when they began denying science.
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and if a cheap cable can deliver correct data to a DAC or computer we won't hear any difference = perfect
[13:42] CB Axel: They were afraid we'd forget about the Creator and they'd all be out of jobs.
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): human animals need religion i think
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same thing only here greed ome into play
[13:42] CB Axel: I don't, Beertje.
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i don't mean you CB:)
[13:43] CB Axel: Ah. Only human animals then. :)
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): pff
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:43] herman Bergson: Jaques Monod, who I mentioned in the previous lecture thought that the more science  would grow the more we would drop the belief in myths
[13:43] CB Axel: It's happening, Herman. It's just happening slowly.
[13:44] CB Axel: And too slowly for our environment. :(
[13:44] herman Bergson: and indeed, it is a peculiar phenomenon that homo sapiens is inclined to believe in myths
[13:44] herman Bergson: I think it is happening indeed CB
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:44] oola Neruda is online.
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): time to start up the Mythbuters show again
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:45] herman Bergson: just combine education, science and prosperity and the process of secularization starts
[13:45] CB Axel: I should try to read Joseph Campbell. I've never been able to get interested enough to get through any of his writings.
[13:46] herman Bergson: What kind of writer is  Joseph Campbell, CB?
[13:46] oola Neruda is offline.
[13:46] CB Axel: He writes about man and myth.
[13:46] CB Axel: On why man creates myths.
[13:47] herman Bergson: sounds interesting...
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:47] herman Bergson: OK class check out that name :-)
[13:47] herman Bergson: I wonder myself too....
[13:48] herman Bergson: I always relate it to a phase of developmental psychology....
[13:48] CB Axel: He did some TV shows, too.
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): have to check that
[13:49] herman Bergson: around the age of four a child gets an animistic world view.....every object is alive
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): there are youtube movies of him
[13:49] herman Bergson: We even stimulate it by saying ...don't hurt the chair , when the little one kicks it :-)
[13:50] herman Bergson: that is where we learn to think in myths
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (attacks Hermans chair with angle grinder and chainsaw) GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRWWWWWWWAAAAOOOOOO
[13:50] herman Bergson: when you add a religious education to :-)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): THUD! (herman falls o floor)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sorry could not resist
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): MUAHHAAH
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bej!
[13:50] herman Bergson: Slow down, Bejiita :0(((
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ahahaha
[13:51] CB Axel: But Herman isn't in a chair, so you're evil plan is doomed to failure.
[13:51] CB Axel: *your
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true
[13:51] herman Bergson: So you know,,  Bejiita :-)))
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a programming language would have said Error using function Chainsaw(Chair) Object Chair don't exist in class Wainscot
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or something similar
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:53] CB Axel: LOL
[13:53] herman Bergson: ^_^
[13:53] herman Bergson: Time to join all your fellow apes again....:-)
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa agree
[13:53] herman Bergson: Thank you all again...
[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im gonna find some more to party with now after, however sl is quite calm on tuesdays otherwise
[13:54] CB Axel: Yes. I need to get back to my hunter/gatherer roots and hunt down and gather up a pizza.
[13:54] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman:))
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and fun
[13:54] CB Axel: See you all Thursday. Thank you, Herman.
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): got me going a bit after a slow day
[13:54] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class for this interesting hour!
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:54] herman Bergson: happy Hunting CB :-)
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu soon
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:54] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye bejiita:-)
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Bejiita
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): welterusten allemaal
[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: slaap lekker Beertje
[13:55] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): dankjewel:)
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: sometimes it's so funny with you all
[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes:)
[13:56] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): true Bergie
[13:56] herman Bergson: Nice to hear, Bergie ^_^

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