Many history books describe the development of history as the reign of this king, then came that king, then the country was conquered by another ruler, and so on.
Marx's great merit is that he chose a completely different approach, which he called scientific and historical materialism, versus utopian socialism as discussed in previous lectures.
This meant that, according to Marx, history developed on the basis of the material conditions and relations in a society.
Marx's ideas, particularly his analysis of private property, capitalism, and class struggle, acted as a profound intellectual catalyst. These were his concepts to describe the real, material world.
His influence didn't create a single, unified school of thought but rather fractured into diverse and often fiercely contested streams that have shaped politics, sociology, history, and philosophy for over a century.
It would be going too far to discuss all the movements that emerged under the banner of Marxist, socialist, or communist after Marx's death, but let's look into some of them that shaped history.
One big name is Vladimir Lenin (1870–1924). He represents a pivotal break and a radicalization of Marxist thought.
Operating in Tsarist Russia, where a bourgeois revolution had not yet occurred, he challenged the orthodox view that socialism was only possible after a fully developed capitalism.
He developed the theory of the vanguard party, a disciplined, centralized party of professional revolutionaries
that would guide the working class, arguing that without such leadership, workers' consciousness would only develop to a "trade-union" level.
In his "The State and Revolution" (1917), using it as a guide, he drew on Marx's ideas to argue that the existing state must be smashed and replaced with a "dictatorship of the proletariat,"
which would be more democratic, based on the influence of the workers, but also a coercive instrument for suppressing the former ruling class until a classless society could emerge.
This resulted in the first major attempt to build a Marxist state by Vladimir Lenin and the Bolsheviks during the Russian Revolution of 1917.
Marx had predicted that revolution would happen in advanced industrial nations, like Germany or the UK, but Lenin adapted the theory to Russia, a largely peasant-based, agrarian society.
Following the revolution and the Civil War (1918 - 1922), after which the USSR was founded, private property was abolished, and the state took control of the "commanding heights" of the economy.
In the USSR, the state became all-powerful and totalitarian, which was justified by some using Marx’s ideas and also emerged from Lenin’s interpretation.
In this context, I should also mention Stalin, in power from 1922 to 1953. Marxism meant something other than Stalinist practice.
In the coming lectures, I'll present some more consequences of Marx's ideas, to begin with Mao and Fidel Castro, for they all had a great influence.
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:17] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what was the profit of Lenin and Stalin?
[13:17] herman Bergson: Power?
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): profit for the people I ment
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: Did "the state" as visualized by Lenin always devolve into an effective kingship in the hands of somebody?
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: Or a few oligarchs?
[13:18] herman Bergson: Under Lenin there still was room for debate and issent...That ended when Stalin came to power
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: How did he take over?
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what did it mean for the well-being of the people?
[13:20] herman Bergson: I don't know the details, Max...is in the history books
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Stalin to me is similar to Hitler. Terror regime and the Gulag camps for everyone who dared to think differently.
[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: The problem with the dictatorship of the proletariat is that it is a dictatorship and dictatorships do not relinquish power
[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: One way to put it is that the proletariat must not simply have some sort of abstract ownership of the means of production but must have control over the means of production
[13:22] herman Bergson: Stalin became the high commissioner of the Communist Party in 1922 and Lenin died in 1924. That was when Stalin grabbed all power
[13:22] Stranger Nightfire: Socialism must have a bottom-up democracy rather than a top-down bureaucracy
[13:22] herman Bergson: Very complicated intrigues in the top of the party
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Stranger...maybe a more cooperative organisation of the workers
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:24] herman Bergson: Besides this dictatorship of the proletariat.... that was Lenin's vanguard party of professional revolutionaries
[13:26] herman Bergson: That period around 1920 1922 was a complicated one with lots of fights and murder...Trotsky was even murdered in Mexico for his opinions, if I am not mistaken
[13:26] Stranger Nightfire: Yeah it's interesting but few of the communist leaders actually came from a working-class background
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: But how did Stalin grab that power and keep it for so long? We're dealing with a similar question right now.
[13:27] Max Chatnoir: The people who could effectively say no to him are afraid to do so, because they can benefit from the situation.
[13:27] Max Chatnoir: And they don't want to lose that advantage?
[13:27] herman Bergson: When you are the highest official in the party, you can appoint your followers in important positions...just like Trump does....that is how you increase your power
[13:27] Stranger Nightfire: Yeah Max, I have often been puzzled by one individual can maintain so much power over others for prolonged periods of time
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if u manage to murder anyone who dare to oppose you and also as said, the threat to be sent to gulag. same as Putin does now
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): scarig everyoe into submission with his terror
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): scaring
[13:28] Stranger Nightfire: I look at Franco Spain Franco ruled as a dictator for decades and everyone fell into line right till the day he died And as soon as he died they all danced around and sang Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes me too....but there are always people who agree with the dictator for various reasons..
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: Yes, but he can only do that because other people help him do it.
[13:29] herman Bergson: It is a strange phenomenon in human behavior
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmmm yes
[13:30] herman Bergson: I can't explain it
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed there must be some more who are on his side for it to work
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the devils imps
[13:30] herman Bergson: But it happens all the time.... take Hitler...he came to power in a democratic way. He won an election...
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): True
[13:31] herman Bergson: And in his case the big industry supported him
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same with Trump, the warning signs were there though but the ones voting for trump were uneducated and ignorant just looking for "cheaper eggs"
[13:33] Stranger Nightfire: American industrialists attempted to a military coup d'etat against Franklin Roosevelt
[13:33] Stranger Nightfire: attempted to start I should say
[13:34] herman Bergson: Never heared of that, Stranger....
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: I haven't either.
[13:34] herman Bergson: interesting
[13:34] Stranger Nightfire: It's not that well known
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: They didn't talk about it/
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: ?
[13:35] Stranger Nightfire: No it didn't get very far and establishment sources like the New York Times claimed it was all a hoax
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:36] Stranger Nightfire: It might have gone further had they not made the mistake getting the rather honest American general Smedley Buttler invovled who ratted them out
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a traitor ok
[13:36] Stranger Nightfire: Badly is also the general who wrote important book called War is a Racket
[13:38] Stranger Nightfire: Smedly that was
[13:38] Stranger Nightfire: I need to stop trusting my voice dictation
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: https://www.amazon.com/War-Racket-Smedley-D-Butler/dp/1684228735/ref=asc_df_1684228735?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79920961900971&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=66251&hvtargid=pla-4583520436427056&psc=1&msclkid=2f1aa9bdfd731c5e85bdc0732efc1cdd
[13:38] herman Bergson: It happened in 1933
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: Never heard of him, but he is apparently well known!
[13:38] herman Bergson: Even befor WWII
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not familiar eeither with this part of history
[13:39] Stranger Nightfire: Butler was at the time the most decorated soldier in US history
[13:40] Stranger Nightfire: And when he wrote that book he compared his military career to that a gangster like Al Capone
[13:40] Stranger Nightfire: When you doubt that what his career had been was slaughtering thousands of people on behalf various American business interests
[13:41] herman Bergson: The coup d'etat story is true. That is a fact
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: So why were they ganging up on Roosevelt?
[13:42] Stranger Nightfire: It isn't obvious why American oligarchs were not fond of Roosevelt ?
[13:42] Stranger Nightfire: They considered him a dangerous communist
[13:42] Stranger Nightfire: and for that part most of them were actually fans of Adolf Hitler
[13:42] Stranger Nightfire: and wanted to put a government similar to his
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: This is probably relevant to to the question of why you can't get a stable worker-managed society.
[13:43] herman Bergson: The man who approached Buttler was the republican and banker, Prescot Bush!. The father of George W. Bush
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: OMG!
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: George W or George H W?
[13:44] Stranger Nightfire: Grandfather of W
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: OK
[13:44] herman Bergson: George H.W. Bush was his son
[13:45] herman Bergson: The man died in 1963
[13:45] herman Bergson: Is all in Wikipedia ...my external memory ㋡
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:46] herman Bergson: Buttler and the coup story is too
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: I'll have to check your external memory out...
[13:46] Stranger Nightfire: History is full of strange connections
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same here!
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:46] herman Bergson: Access is for free Max :-)
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: :-)\
[13:47] herman Bergson: Yes, this is a really strange one, Stranger ㋡
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: I get the military industrial complex. Everybody's making money by enabling battle.
[13:47] Stranger Nightfire: like the moment when after Nikola Tesla died the FBI invaded his laboratory and confiscated all of the equipment and papers Accompanied by a government scientist who just happens to be Donald Trump's uncle
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: Well, not everybody...
[13:47] herman Bergson: maybe it shows that only a small bunch of people rule the USA
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[13:48] herman Bergson: rule
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the rich and evil ones
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shuddders)
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: Power corrupts.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): power a money
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and
[13:49] herman Bergson: But reading about what happened in the communist party around 1920 and later can be fascinating, if you love the struggle for power fights
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:50] Stranger Nightfire: This thing insight into that Arthur Kessler's novel Darkness at Noon
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: So George Washington had it right. You can't have the same person in power forever.
[13:51] herman Bergson: Koetsler
[13:51] Stranger Nightfire: That novel begins with a protagonist who will early idealistic Leninist sort of communist Having this Stalinist goons come to his door to arrest him for his show trial and execution
[13:52] herman Bergson: Koestler, I mean
[13:52] Stranger Nightfire: And most of the book is about his memories and reflections as he considers what he had probably done himself to bring about this state of affairs
[13:53] Stranger Nightfire: The overarching theme of the book might be The end justifies the means philosophy never works out well
[13:53] herman Bergson: No, you can't, Max...power distorts the brain of a person and his perception of reality in the long term
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: So no matter how wonderful you think your king is, you can't let him stay in power.
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: Because he will deteriorate and take you with him.
[13:54] herman Bergson: That is why the Dutch king has no power and is only a decoration
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same as with our king in Sweden
[13:54] Stranger Nightfire: You see that a lot with religious cults too Their leaders sometimes start out with good intentions but tend to go crazy over the years
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes!
[13:55] Max Chatnoir: And does having no power make them nicer?
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well our king is not an asshole at least
[13:55] herman Bergson: No, just expensive
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well true
[13:56] herman Bergson: neither is ours Bejiita :-)
[13:56] Stranger Nightfire: The Netherlands is still one of those pseudo monarchies ?
[13:56] herman Bergson: Yes
[13:56] herman Bergson: completely meaningless
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: So it's a family thing?
[13:57] herman Bergson: but there are people who disagree with me ㋡
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: You don't elect or choose them. They inherited the throne?
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i dont get the purpose either, he and the queen ect are just there to "represent" the nation
[13:58] herman Bergson: yes.... the oldest of the family
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sort of
[13:58] Max Chatnoir: Like the Brits
[13:58] herman Bergson: They make a good show of it indeed
[13:58] Stranger Nightfire: In the days of true monarchies when they actually had a kind of absolute power Every once in a while it would work out good when someone who was by nature intelligent and would happen to inherit the throne
[13:59] herman Bergson: as you see...we are already deeply involved in the class struggles again....
[13:59] Stranger Nightfire: There was one king of France who set out to improve the lives of the peasants, built schools for them and that sort of thing
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:59] herman Bergson: yes
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:59] Max Chatnoir: Which one?
[14:00] Stranger Nightfire: I don't remember at the moment
[14:00] herman Bergson: a one, Max :)
[14:00] herman Bergson: a one
[14:00] herman Bergson: weird... a d-e-a-d one
[14:00] herman Bergson: Weird can't type that word in a normal mode
[14:01] herman Bergson: Time to end our debate..I guess I get a bit overheated ...or my keyboard at least :-)
[14:01] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): was it Napoleon?
[14:01] Max Chatnoir: Probably not.
[14:02] herman Bergson: Next time we'll have a look at Mao....
[14:02] herman Bergson: Thank you all again also those who come out of the box :-)
[14:02] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Napoleon was just a conqueror,
[14:03] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[14:03] Max Chatnoir: OK. I would like to
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