Welcome to the 300th lecture of The Philosophy Class and allow me to mention my special admiration for those here present who have endured almost all 300: Gemma, Qwark and Aristotle and Alarice.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
herman Bergson: ♫♪♫♪ ♪♫♪♫ APPLAUSE ♪♫♪♫ ♫♪♫♪
Gemma Allen : wow
Bejiita Imako: \o/
Bejiita Imako: || Hoooo!
Bejiita Imako: / \
Gemma Allen : OMG!!!
Gemma Allen : omg
Gemma Allen : ♥ LOL ♥
:: Beertje :: : *•.¸'*•.¸ ♥ ¸.•*´¸.•*
:: Beertje :: : .•*♥¨`• BRAVO!!!! •¨`♥*•.
:: Beertje :: : ¸.•*`¸.•*´ ♥ `*•.¸`*•.¸
Gemma Allen : almost
Aristotle von Doobie : Bravo!.....Bravo!!!
Gemma Allen : i think i missed some
herman Bergson: yes....!
herman Bergson: I therefore said "almost all" ^_^
BALDUR Joubert: grin
Aristotle von Doobie : I am sure Gemma has the record
herman Bergson: I think so too Aristotle...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neuroeconomics may be interesting, because it focusses on the decision-making processes in the brain. Neuromarketing is even cooler (for some parties), because it focusses on the "buy-button" in the brain.
It all began with the psychologists, who developed all kinds of tests to reveal the consumer's preferences. Then the sociologists added the test group to the marketing equipment. And now the neuroscientists offer the marketing guys the brain.
They love to scan our brains when we drool and want to buy that car. They peek in our brains at locations where we ourselves even cannot reach.
This is again a new development in the neuro-world. Again of recent date. And keep in mind, a scientific development that started 5 years or so ago on such a complex object as the brain, means nothing. It's just scratching the surface.
It all began with the neuroscientist Clinton Kilts of Emory University in Atlanta in 2003. The goal of his research wasn't at all neuromarketing. It even didn't exist then.
He was just curious about the question why certain products are popular and others just a flop. The experiment was simple. Test persons were shown a series of products that they had to rate on a scale of numbers.
Then the test persons were put in the fMRI-scanner and were shown the products again. And what happened? Every time a test person saw a product he liked the medial prefrontal cortex fired like hell.
The prefrontal cortex (PFC) is the anterior part of the frontal lobes of the brain. This brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behaviors, personality expression, decision making and moderating correct social behavior.
So this part of the brain is highly involved with our self-identification and the construction of our personality. When you point at your forehead just above your nose you are pointing at that region of the brain…. peculiar gesture by the way :-)
Clinton Kilts had found something. Just by looking into the brain of the consumer you can see whether he likes the product or not. He concluded that there is some identification of the self with the product. The product fits in with the personality.
Don't get too upset right now. It doesn't mean that Kilts had discovered the button to push to make the consumer actually buy the product. The decision to buy something is a way more complex brain process.
A classic experiment in this matter is the Pepsi - paradox. The experiment was executed by Read Montague of Baylor College of Medicine in Houston.
It is already a well known fact that when you blindfolded taste Cola and Pepsi, the majority of people will say that the second one (that was Pepsi) tastes better.
Montague put people in the fMRI-scanner and made them taste the two unmarked liquids. When drinking Pepsi a part of the striatum, which is associated with the 'rewarding system' in the brain, fired significantly stronger then when the test person tasted Cola.
But here comes the catch. When the test persons were told which brown liquid was which, they all of a sudden almost all preferred the Coca-Cola, even when it wasn't the case before.
And while peeking in the brains of these versatile test persons something special was observed. The medial prefrontal cortex entered the debate with the putamen in the striatum, that gives us the feeling of being rewarded.
The brain part with the higher cognitive functions (medial prefrontal cortex) interfered and outclassed the direct experience of reward (putamen), which was caused by the taste experience.
An amazing observation, which tells us how we consciously and subconsciously experience the world around us. It is the brain that does the shopping, not we.
The Discussion
[13:20] herman Bergson: And to coclude this 300th lecture I would like to thank Ciska for the choclate cake :-)
[13:20] herman Bergson: Thank you...
[13:21] herman Bergson: This was just an introduction to the phenomenon of neuromarketing
[13:21] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yummy, looks delicious!
[13:21] Peli (peli.dieterle): ! ! ! Applause ! ! !
[13:21] Anja Tigerfish: Hm.......chocolate cake.....)))
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: Hooo!!!
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: Hoooo!
[13:21] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[13:21] Zinzi Serevi: we are nothing more then our brains i would say
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: great
[13:21] herman Bergson: Every one can have a piace after our discussion ^_^
[13:21] Bejiita Imako ♪♥♪APPLAUDS!!!♪♥♪
[13:21] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:21] Anja Tigerfish: Haha dats funny!!
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: looks tasty yes
[13:21] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i would rather have cheese cake
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: eating Toblerone rl
[13:22] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): LOL
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: also tasty
[13:22] herman Bergson: ok....calm down....there is enough for everyone
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:22] herman Bergson: Let's stick to our subject...
[13:22] herman Bergson: I would say YES Zinzi that is that we are...our brain
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: smile.zinsi.. may be more.. may be our brains arejust what we can "see"..
[13:23] herman Bergson: Like the title of the book of Dick Swaab...Dutch neuroscientist....
[13:23] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the interesting thing in the dissauding of our natural selection of Pepsi is the social conditioning Coca Cola has subjected us to
[13:23] Zinzi Serevi: so what is the rest
[13:23] herman Bergson: Wij zijn ons brein / We are our brain
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: but that tells nothing about what we "are"
[13:23] Zinzi Serevi: yes it does
[13:23] herman Bergson: We are organic beings Baldur...
[13:24] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): my friend drank coke every day for years we went to a fair and she picked the pepsi as the best drink in a test lo
[13:24] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): name recognition being drummed into us constantly
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: smile beji you work in cern?
[13:24] herman Bergson: Result of 5 million years of evolution
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: that col st wars interesting, its like we have been indoctrated that coca olai nr 1 no matter the taste
[13:24] Zinzi Serevi: yes a brain is flexible and can learn
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: the basis of organic components ..is still materia..
[13:24] Zinzi Serevi: but you can only as far as your brains allow
[13:24] druth Vlodovic: there must be a biological component to picking what we believe is "popular" in order to maximize acceptance by others
[13:25] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): politicians do the same thing at election time....we knew that Bush was bad for us LOL
[13:25] BALDUR Joubert: lol.. yes..wehave our limits..
[13:25] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:25] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): omg yes
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: aaarrgh damn keyboard
[13:25] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): at least we did ari
[13:25] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:25] BALDUR Joubert: was he ari? he will just be another one in history
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: comåputer at work was hopeless too today
[13:25] herman Bergson: Let's stick to the subject Baldur....
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: ok..
[13:26] Zinzi Serevi: ppl who have a brain injury can be total strangers to their family after
[13:26] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yet, folks are much like sheep and can be led away from apparently what they know is good for them
[13:26] herman Bergson: let's look at what Druth said...
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: i'm sticking to the subject..cause i question all the discoveries you cited
[13:26] herman Bergson: There is an interesting aspect in our behavior...
[13:26] herman Bergson: When we buy things....
[13:27] herman Bergson: We value the object...
[13:27] herman Bergson: next lecture I'll dig into that some more...
[13:27] herman Bergson: we put value in objects...
[13:27] herman Bergson: but not only because of the design or utility....
[13:27] herman Bergson: It also gets a social value....
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: herman. i question cause you cite your examples as being brain ..but not subject to any influence..indoctrination of the brain..
[13:28] Zinzi Serevi: yes ppl can fall in love for things they buy
[13:28] herman Bergson: Bought my car because it is bigger than the one of my neighbor
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: so the brain structure is not the necessary cause..
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: its the input..
[13:28] Ciska Riverstone: cause is the value?
[13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): it is interesting to not that things I buy must have utility but they must be pleasing in appearance also....different parts to the brain being satisfied?
[13:29] herman Bergson: the wiring of the brain makes us who we are Baldur....
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: shit in shit out..that i learned about computers a decade ago
[13:29] Zinzi Serevi: so why do i make other choices then you do Baldur?
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: true
[13:29] herman Bergson: Yes Aristotle
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: not the wiring harman.. i disagree..
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: it's what we learn
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: now i have banged on the keyboard a bit however and seem work better now
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: stupid machine
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:30] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and you personal makeup will decide with is more important in you purchase
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: the wiring is the same for all..more or less..
[13:30] herman Bergson: Yes Aristotle....that is what I mean.....
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: what i tried say before however is that we seem to have been indocrtrinated that coca cola is the better one despite the taste
[13:30] herman Bergson: our brains are shaped during our personal development...
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: we are a learning species..that's how we developed
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: i like both but i think Pepsi might in fact have slightly better characteristics
[13:31] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I would classify my self as artist/scientist rather that scientist/artist so I would probably have to have the best looking product
[13:31] herman Bergson: yes Bejiita...Coca Cola has a better status than Pepsi...
[13:31] herman Bergson: Good advertizing...:-)
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: and i can differ between them in a blind test as well i think cause recognize the tastes
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: hmm yes must be the case
[13:32] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, you hear Coca Cola so much , it must be the best
[13:32] druth Vlodovic: "The pepsi generation" is only good marketing until the next generation arrives lol
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: hmm
[13:32] herman Bergson: Well...they call it "BRANDING"
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: omg..give me some rum for acuba libre..
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i just think it is amazing that our brain shows it so simply
[13:32] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, akin to brainwashing
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: so i can digest this chat
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: i however mostly get mad when they break tv show 5 th time in 15 minutes for the coca cola commercial
[13:33] herman Bergson: We'll talk about that too Bejiita...
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: "YES I KNOW COLA IS TASTY U DINT NEED TO TELL ME EVERY 15 MINUTES PUT ON THE FILM NOW"
[13:33] herman Bergson: But indeed Gemma...our brain shows the effects of branding....
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: cause i already know that
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: one time before a film is ok but not 5 6 times in it
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): well it is a twist on the spider
[13:34] herman Bergson: The brand is connected to many more braincells than just the striatum....the reward system part
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): one would drink more water and forget the soft drinks anyway LOL wonder if they have test the brain on those two
[13:34] druth Vlodovic: hmm, what part of the brain responds positively to repetition?
[13:34] herman Bergson: hypothalamus....
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: how come ari prefers bourbon to scotch?
[13:35] herman Bergson: It is active when we perform long term memory storage...
[13:35] Mick Nerido: I worked at an advertising agency, they are not a clever at brain washing as most people think
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): of cours liquor and the brain have a notorous relationship
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): some are
[13:35] herman Bergson: Mick…..advertising is still an "art"
[13:36] herman Bergson: But keep in mind....
[13:36] Mick Nerido: A black art?
[13:36] herman Bergson: the neuromarketing costs a fortune to use...
[13:36] herman Bergson: and it is only a developing issue in neuroscience...a new branch
[13:37] herman Bergson: To give you an example.....
[13:37] druth Vlodovic: so the hypothalamus must have a significant effect on the medial prefrontal cortex
[13:37] Mick Nerido: explain neuomarketing please
[13:37] herman Bergson: They work together Druth...
[13:37] herman Bergson: Ok Mick...an example...
[13:37] herman Bergson: A credit card company starts a campaign....
[13:38] herman Bergson: Logo of the company on houses and billboards…traditional approach...
[13:38] herman Bergson: then they showed people pictures of the creditcard held in a hand...in a certain situation...for instance in a shop
[13:39] herman Bergson: what did the brain....
[13:39] herman Bergson: It wasnt impressed by the logo pictures...
[13:39] herman Bergson: But the hand held card in the image caused the brain to fire mirror neurons....the ones related to holding or grabbing something
[13:40] herman Bergson: So such a picture has an observable effect on the brain activity
[13:41] Mick Nerido: Yes true, that's why showing a sexy woman is so prevalent it advertising products
[13:41] herman Bergson: Thence as an advertisement they suppose that it is more effective...
[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes...but there is still one thing to answer....
[13:41] herman Bergson: the process is way more complex...
[13:42] herman Bergson: When I see that sexy lady next to that spartscard I dont stand up from my lazy chair and gonna buy that car
[13:42] herman Bergson: There is a lot more to that...
[13:42] BALDUR Joubert: we are not talking about the brain..but how one can manipulatethe brain..
[13:42] BALDUR Joubert: that we know since 1933
[13:42] herman Bergson: And they still don't know where the buy-button is located ^_^
[13:42] Mick Nerido: No but your pleasure center now connects car sex
[13:43] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur.....
[13:43] BALDUR Joubert: least my side
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: if u buy this car u get lot of women who want to have sex with you sort of
[13:43] herman Bergson: That is a critical question for the next lecture.....
[13:43] herman Bergson: how far may we go peeking not our brain and for what reasons?
[13:44] herman Bergson: If you like that prospect Bejiita go and buy that car ^_^
[13:44] Mick Nerido: Heaven help us if we locate the buy neuron
[13:44] Jerome Ronzales: auto-dictaded
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: smile of course manipulate means how someone else..something outside can manipulate.. how much is genetic..how MUC H mirror neurons..group behaviour etc
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: heh the problem is that I don't work that way because the woman and the car is not connected to each other really
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: the car is a mean of transportation for me thats it
[13:45] herman Bergson: smiles
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: to get from point 1 to 2
[13:45] Mick Nerido: Subliminal advertising also works without our knowing it
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: but sure nice if looks nice in design and have some power
[13:46] herman Bergson: yes...and it caused a lot of upheaval.....
[13:46] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): i think men and woman are really different in this matter
[13:46] herman Bergson: was regarded as unethical
[13:46] Mick Nerido: than there would be no exotic fast cars
[13:47] BALDUR Joubert: mick..buy neuron..you find in survival gene.. he makes it
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: and one think i can say about cars in general is most looikk like upside down thrash bins in wheels
[13:47] herman Bergson: As you see......revealing the working of the brain...and the way the brain....or is it US ...leads to serious questions...
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: they work but no interesting design ansd all look same
[13:47] herman Bergson: We'll continue to play around with the brian for a while yet...:-)
[13:47] herman Bergson: Such a remarkable machinery..
[13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): no women seems to to hit with the need for 'diamonds'
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: eccept really expensive sport cars that only few can afford
[13:48] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): ah yes Ari:))
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: more design in general i want
[13:48] Jerome Ronzales: nowadays the polution term of using the car is related to what ppl make sense of relating it to sex and the sexy girl posing ..
[13:48] Mick Nerido: Diamonds are a ad success
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: hmm most of those cars are gas guzzlers as well
[13:49] Zinzi Serevi: yes maybe even more with a good looking man beside them
[13:49] Mick Nerido: A diamond is forever
[13:49] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: hehehe
[13:49] herman Bergson: Well...next lecture we'll try to look at a few critical questions regarding this neuromarketing.....
[13:49] Jerome Ronzales: cars aren't the pollution agents anymore but the dirty toughts ppl make, impel it to it
[13:49] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:49] herman Bergson: I think now it is time for the chocolate cake...:-)
[13:50] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): yes!
[13:50] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Thanks you Herman
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: well this was really interesting again ㋡
[13:50] herman Bergson: So thank you all for being here again…
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: nice nice
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman :-) and ty class!
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:50] Jerome Ronzales: very nice
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:50] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:50] Anja Tigerfish: *^*^*^*^* Anja thinks that's *^*^*^*^*
[13:50] BALDUR Joubert: smile enjoy your cake herman.. they say ch
[13:50] Anja Tigerfish: SuperCrazyFunnyFantasticBombasticCooool
[13:50] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman:))
[13:50] Anja Tigerfish: *^*^*^*^*^* Ooww laaaaa *^*^*^*^*^*
[13:50] Jerome Ronzales: thanks and sorry the late entrance
[13:50] druth Vlodovic: thank you herman
[13:50] Mick Nerido: sorry i was late
[13:50] Anja Tigerfish: *-*rOfl*-*
[13:50] Anja Tigerfish: *-*r0fl*-*
[13:50] BALDUR Joubert: choclate makes one happy..:9
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Bravo! -- Cheers! - Applause!
[13:50] Ciska Riverstone: Interesting - thank you herman
[13:50] Dewy Fall: Thanks herman :)
