352: The Brain and the Identity Theory 1

Very roughly, the identity theory asserts that the mind is the brain.More precisely, it claims that mental states are physical states of the brain.The qualification 'physical' is important.

After all,property dualism asserts that mental states are properties of the brain. However,according to property dualism, mental states are nonphysical properties of the brain.

Conseqently,if the identity theory is to be distinct from property dualism,it must assert that mental states are physical states of the brain.

Maybe you have an intuitive notion of agreeing with this idea: the mind is the brain. At least you have been softened up to get used to this idea by the media.

The brain is hot these days. To give you some examples. I got an offer of a trial subscription to a news weekly.

When I would accept I also would receive a 100 pages full color magazine titled "The brain", subtitle: "Everything you need to know about the brain, how it operate and how to keep it sharp."

I read two newspapers and both newspapers found it news to report on a publication in the professional magazine "Nature Neuroscience".

It is about the fact that we actually are born optimists. From psychology we already know for decades that we are.

Most people think, that misery, diseases and accidents always happen to others, never to themselves.

The newspaper article reveals, that this optimism isn't just a mental state, no…it is hard wired in the brain.

With fMRI scans neuroscientists have discovered that only when positive messages are received the prefrontal cortex really comes into action.

Test persons were asked to estimate their chances on all kinds of misery, from accidents to Alzheimer. Then they were confronted with the real statistics.

Asked a second time to estimate their chances, those who had mentioned higher chances than statistics predicted, adjusted their guess properly.

However those who had estimated their chances on misery lower than statistics predicted, stuck to their lower estimations with only a little adjustment.

The brain scans showed that when test persons had to adjust their estimation downward, their prefrontal cortex showed lots of activity.

But when they had to adjust their estimation upward to get in line with the statistics, most of the test persons just ignored that information and showed little activity in the prefrontal cortex.

You can imagine that when you get such information from the media continuously, unconsciously you are softened up to accept the idea that the brain is the mind.

The idea that mental states are brain states is not new.The English philosopher Thomas Hobbes (l588-1679) and his French contemporary Pierre Gassendi (l592-1655) both made the claim more than three hundred years ago.

However, the idea wasn't carefully expressed and defended until the 1950s when a group of Australian philosophers including J.J.C.Smart explored the idea.

I searched my bookshelves and found it, bought in September 1976: "A Materialist Theory of the Mind" by D.M. Armstrong (1968).

I really get nostalgic, when after I guess a 30 years or so I read the first lines of the 'Acknowledgements": "Professor J.J. Smart converted me to the view, defended in this book, that mental states are nothing but physical states of the brain" (University of Sydney).

Next lecture we'll have a detailed look at the Identity Theory. In the meantime, you just keep an eye on how often you read or see in the media messages, that support the idea that the mind is the brain.


The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you....
[13:21] Qwark Allen: ::::::::: * E * X * C * E * L * L * E * N * T * ::::::::::
[13:21] Qwark Allen: :-)
[13:21] herman Bergson: Feel free to drop some remarks or questions ㋡
[13:22] herman Bergson: the floor is yours
[13:22] Qwark Allen: in a way it`s how media explore us, to get the message they want to us
[13:22] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman - rl needs me - have a good time everyone
[13:22] Bibbe Oh: ciao
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: Ciska
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: cu
[13:22] Qwark Allen: manipulation of the message
[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes Qwark...the media play an important role in shaping our thinking
[13:23] Mick Nerido: Why do you thing we are hard wired optimists?
[13:23] herman Bergson: Just go to the bookstore and look how many books there are on the brian and the mind
[13:23] Bibbe Oh: and in triggering primal response systems to manipulate our behavior
[13:23] herman Bergson: Well Mick....I think because evolutionary this has an advantage
[13:24] Qwark Allen: bad brains don`t procreate ehehhe
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: heheh
[13:24] herman Bergson: When the brain closes itself for negative information....we stay explorers and curious after new things
[13:24] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): the neurosicences research are feeding these ideologies, but in other country they say that the mind isn't the brain but a physical extention... since we cant see its invisible part, where is the mind….core….if the brian is the feet sort of
[13:24] Bibbe Oh: some of these attached to autonomic functioning, hormone release, fight or flight, and these give rise to "feelings" which many identify as being the true self
[13:24] Mick Nerido: The glass is half full..
[13:25] Bibbe Oh: though they are products of the body regulatory systems
[13:26] herman Bergson: yes Bibbe ...it is what they call the reptilian brain or limbic system in our head
[13:26] Bibbe Oh: yes
[13:26] Bibbe Oh: lizard and dog brains
[13:26] Rodney Handrick is Online
[13:27] herman Bergson: And yes Alaya....we should keep a sharp eye on the question what is science and what is ideology...
[13:27] herman Bergson: As I said...the continuing information in the media.....
[13:28] herman Bergson: on the one hand science...on the other hand…well…a specific view of reality
[13:28] Mick Nerido: There is so much more information faster than ever now...
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes Mick..it is all under our fingertips now
[13:29] herman Bergson: And in our case....
[13:29] herman Bergson: the materialist theory of mind conflicts with a lot of metaphysical beliefs
[13:30] herman Bergson: But I notice that you don't worry too much about that..at least not yet :-)
[13:31] herman Bergson: Well... I guess that all was quite clear then today
[13:32] herman Bergson: unless some one still has a question or remark?
[13:32] herman Bergson: Ok... let's have an easy day :-)
[13:33] Mick Nerido: Thanks good session
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:33] herman Bergson: Thank you all for your participation
[13:33] Lizzy Pleides: thank you Herman
[13:33] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ㋡
[13:33] Bibbe Oh: thank you!
[13:33] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i didn't hear much metaphysic data recently
[13:34] herman Bergson: Thursday will be more difficult , so be prepared ^_^
[13:34] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): i ll keep an open eye
[13:34] Lizzy Pleides: good byee everybody
[13:34] Qwark Allen: yes indeed
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: cu all
[13:34] Qwark Allen: very interesting
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: 9
[13:34] herman Bergson: No Alaya, today it was rather quiet on the metaphysical front
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:35] Qwark Allen: there wasn't much to go in that direction
[13:35] herman Bergson: no...
[13:35] Qwark Allen: agains't facts, not much arguments
[13:35] Qwark Allen: eheheh
[13:35] Bibbe Oh: pretty straightforward
[13:35] herman Bergson: true....
[13:35] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:35] Qwark Allen: at least in what concerns the physiology of the brain
[13:36] Qwark Allen: ㋡ ˜*•. ˜”*°•.˜”*°• Helloooooo! •°*”˜.•°*”˜ .•*˜ ㋡
[13:36] Qwark Allen: Hey! rodney
[13:36] Qwark Allen: just in time
[13:36] Qwark Allen: eheheh
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: 9
[13:36] Rodney Handrick: Hi Qwark
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: hi Rodney
[13:36] herman Bergson: I thought it was interesting to show you how often you are exposed these days to a specific theory of the mind in the media
[13:36] Rodney Handrick: hi Bejiita
[13:36] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): are yuo the one who always come at the exact last minut rodney?
[13:36] Qwark Allen: indeed
[13:36] Qwark Allen: ehehehhe
[13:36] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:36] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:36] herman Bergson: Hi Rodney...
[13:37] Rodney Handrick: Not sure Alaya...lol
[13:37] Rodney Handrick: Hi Herman
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes Alaya…Rodney comes always too late ^_^
[13:37] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): aw, then it wasn't you, there was one….that i forgot the name
[13:37] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): was it, lol
[13:37] Rodney Handrick: HA HA HA HA HA
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes That is our Rodney...
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hehehe
[13:37] Rodney Handrick: HA HA HA HA HA
[13:37] Qwark Allen: so funny that smile rodney
[13:37] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): ♦♫♦.。・*゜*・。.♦♫♦♪♥❢APPLAUSE❢❤♪♦♫♦♫.。・*゜*・。.♦♫♦
[13:38] Qwark Allen: allways makes me laught
[13:38] Qwark Allen: °͜° l ☺ ☻ ☺ l °͜°
[13:38] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:38] herman Bergson: no one better in timing than he! ㋡
[13:38] Rodney Handrick: :-)
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:38] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): well ill nick name my son rodney, than, he does the same
[13:38] herman Bergson: smiles
[13:39] herman Bergson: an honor to Rodney I guess !
[13:39] Alaya Chépaspourquoi (alaya.kumaki): ^^

338: The materialist Brain 4

After our sidetrack on the question "What is matter?", let's return to our main road, that of investigating materialism itself.

If fact, for a materialist, it hardly matters, what matter is made of. Atoms, molecules, whatever, maybe with the exception that matter complies to laws of nature.

When you look at the history of materialism, you look at the basic philosophical question "What exists?" And it is astonishing to see how the human mind has answered that question.

Materialism, and thence monism, has been a theme in European speculative thought from the earliest periods for which there is any record. In the previous lecture I already mentioned Leucippus and his pupil Democritus, who lived in the 5th center BCE!

Their basic idea was that the fundamental stuff was of just one kind (matter) and that the fundamental entities were material atoms. These atoms are in constant motion in a void that surrounds them.

Then when you look at a few theses that can be deduced from their "atom theory" and when you ask yourself the question "How can a human mind come to such insights",

if you take into account that those Greeks had no technology whatsoever, that could have suggested these conclusions, it is amazing.

Theses about what is formulated more than 2500 years ago!

(1) Nothing exists but atoms and empty space.

(2) Nothing happens by chance (for no reason at all);everything occurs for a reason and of necessity.This necessity is natural and mechanical; it excludes teleological necessitation.

(3) Nothing can arise out of nothing; nothing that is can be destroyed. All novelties are merely new combinations or separations of atoms.

The conclusions you can come to drawn from these theses are far reaching.
The world is purely mechanical, an idea that became the basis of of the scientific revolution of the 17th century.

Teleological necessitation is excluded. This means that matter, or we could say, the world, just is as it is, changing because of mechanical, that is causal processes. But there is now direction in that process, not a necessary goal it is steering at.

"Nothing can arise out of nothing" is an interesting thesis because of its implications. It leads to a number of metaphysical riddles. One is: there never was a creation. Do we have to conclude that there was never a beginning?

How do we have to understand the Big Bang from this perspective? Is our mind in any way able to understand the concept of Beginning?

When you look at the history of materialism you see, that this kind of thinking was suppressed for almost 1500 years.

Religious thinking, in this case christianity, was so dominant and powerful, that materialism was just a heresy and good for the stake.

From the close of the classical period until the Renaissance the church and Aristotle so dominated European speculation that materialist theories virtually lapsed.

Pierre Gassendi (1592–1655), who in the last part of his life taught astronomy at the Royal College in Paris, was the first one who brought materialism back in the spotlights.

But he still needed a trick. To bring his materialist ideas into closer conformity with Christian doctrine, he claimed that the atoms are not eternal but created.

They are finite, not infinite, in number and are organized in our particular world by a providential determination of initial conditions.

In England Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679) was much more consistent and uncompromising. Hobbes hoped to use the new non-Aristotelian physics of the seventeenth century as the basis for a final, complete account of reality.

No part of the universe is not a body, said Hobbes, and no part of the universe contains no body.Hobbes was a plenist, holding all space to be filled by an intangible material ether if nothing else.

And then Descartes stepped in. The influence of Gassendi and Hobbes was diminished by the prestige of their brilliant contemporary, Rene
Descartes (1596–1650),

who accepted a materialist and mechanical account of the inanimate world and the brute creation but insisted that men had immaterial, immortal spirits whose essential nature lay in conscious thought undetermined by causal processes.

According to Descartes, there are in the world two quite different sortsnof things, extended (material) substances and thinking (spiritual) substances, which are mysteriously united in the case of humankind.

So, after the Middle Ages, which was a dark period for materialism, we now got stuck for another 300 years with the dominance of Dualism, which was politically much more correct than monism.


The Discussion

[2011/06/23 13:25] herman Bergson: to be continued ....thank you :-))
[2011/06/23 13:26] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[2011/06/23 13:26] Mick Nerido: Care to speculate how the Greeks came up with Monism with no tech to hepl them discover it?
[2011/06/23 13:26] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): all conflicting as usual
[2011/06/23 13:27] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): how could Leucippus and Democritus know that there were things like atoms?
[2011/06/23 13:27] herman Bergson: That is what I find so fascinating Mick
[2011/06/23 13:27] herman Bergson: I have no idea how they could develop such a model of reality...
[2011/06/23 13:27] Mick Nerido: The GREEKS HAD MANY GODS
[2011/06/23 13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): those philosophers knew more than we give them credit for
[2011/06/23 13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): as far as the physical world goes
[2011/06/23 13:28] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma.....but the idea of atoms....
[2011/06/23 13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i know :-)
[2011/06/23 13:28] herman Bergson: First they thought all was composed of earth , air , water and fire
[2011/06/23 13:28] Bejiita Imako: aa yes
[2011/06/23 13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but maybe their idea of atom is different from the microscopic atom
[2011/06/23 13:28] Mick Nerido: Yes there philosophers were like scientists
[2011/06/23 13:29] Bejiita Imako: the elements yes
[2011/06/23 13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Yes-ah!
[2011/06/23 13:29] Bejiita Imako: the word atom mean unsplitable
[2011/06/23 13:29] Bejiita Imako: but later we found out thats not the case either
[2011/06/23 13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): and then guess what!!
[2011/06/23 13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[2011/06/23 13:30] herman Bergson: Well...just the belief that all things were composed of small particles and just become what they are by configuration of the particles...
[2011/06/23 13:30] herman Bergson: and not by properties of the particles themselves
[2011/06/23 13:31] Mick Nerido: Very strange that they came to this theory with no tech...
[2011/06/23 13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[2011/06/23 13:31] herman Bergson: I have no idea why their reasoning went in such a monist direction
[2011/06/23 13:31] herman Bergson: Yes Mick the more you think about it the more fascinating it becomes
[2011/06/23 13:31] Bejiita Imako: indeed
[2011/06/23 13:32] herman Bergson: But it is the work of the human mind.....
[2011/06/23 13:32] herman Bergson: There is however a consequence......
[2011/06/23 13:32] herman Bergson: more than 2500 years ago there was amodel of reality implanted in our thinking....
[2011/06/23 13:33] herman Bergson: we still use that model.....
[2011/06/23 13:33] herman Bergson: I would say basically for pragmatic reasons...
[2011/06/23 13:33] herman Bergson: But when it comes to the mind.....
[2011/06/23 13:33] herman Bergson: the model isnt complete....
[2011/06/23 13:34] Tauto Resident: I'm not sure I understand it correctly, but
[2011/06/23 13:34] Tauto Resident: Guess what is called the prototype of the model do?
[2011/06/23 13:35] Mick Nerido: The Greeks were great theorists inventing Geomerty etc...
[2011/06/23 13:35] herman Bergson: Yes.....quite different from what they now are ^_^
[2011/06/23 13:35] Bejiita Imako: y
[2011/06/23 13:35] Bejiita Imako: the saying
[2011/06/23 13:35] Bejiita Imako: already the old greeks
[2011/06/23 13:35] herman Bergson: Well Tauto....
[2011/06/23 13:36] Mick Nerido: Mathematics had a lot do do with their thinking
[2011/06/23 13:36] herman Bergson: the basic model of reality is that it is constructed out of small particles
[2011/06/23 13:36] (tauto): i just can't follow as fast as and as acurate all.
[2011/06/23 13:36] Bejiita Imako: yes
[2011/06/23 13:36] herman Bergson: The interaction between brain and environment has created that idea...
[2011/06/23 13:37] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): is this old idea true?
[2011/06/23 13:37] herman Bergson: That is the point Beertje....You CAN ask that question.....
[2011/06/23 13:38] Mick Nerido: perhaps we instinctivly reflect the true material world in our brains
[2011/06/23 13:38] herman Bergson: and when it comes to the mind....seen from a materialist point of view you have a problem...
[2011/06/23 13:38] herman Bergson: all that exists is matter....ok
[2011/06/23 13:38] herman Bergson: this matter.....our brain chemistry is than said, produses the mind....
[2011/06/23 13:39] herman Bergson: is the mind material too?
[2011/06/23 13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): hmmm
[2011/06/23 13:39] herman Bergson: If not what isit then?
[2011/06/23 13:39] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): and if it's true..can we re arrange it?
[2011/06/23 13:39] herman Bergson: Is it a feature of the brain chemistry
[2011/06/23 13:40] Tauto Resident: Many psychologists are still other kinds of brain and mind can believe that.
[2011/06/23 13:40] herman Bergson: like liquidity is a feature of H2O molecules?
[2011/06/23 13:40] herman Bergson: We still have a long way to go to get these questions answered
[2011/06/23 13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[2011/06/23 13:40] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): maybe another 2500 years...
[2011/06/23 13:41] Bejiita Imako: is an interesting question indeed whaqt makes up the mind
[2011/06/23 13:41] herman Bergson: Oh we will have a lot of fun with that question Bejiita :-)
[2011/06/23 13:41] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): LOL
[2011/06/23 13:41] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): over and over
[2011/06/23 13:42] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma ......
[2011/06/23 13:42] Tauto Resident: I have to wonder. For example, brain damage or remove any part make them human morality says about whether to have.
[2011/06/23 13:42] Mick Nerido: lucky the greek ideas were not lost...
[2011/06/23 13:42] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): how many classes are we up to now
[2011/06/23 13:42] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): strange thing..that some protein can influence the mind..like Alzheimer
[2011/06/23 13:42] herman Bergson: But I yet believe that by the end of this project you really have a better understanding of the situation we are in
[2011/06/23 13:43] herman Bergson: yes Beertje..and what you say Tauto.....
[2011/06/23 13:44] herman Bergson: We only can say then that the Brain is the Mind
[2011/06/23 13:44] (tauto): i wish i have exactly accurate translator.
[2011/06/23 13:44] herman Bergson: such a thing doesn't exist Tauto....unfortunately
[2011/06/23 13:44] 방랑자 (tauto): oh..
[2011/06/23 13:44] herman Bergson: One of the big differences between the mind and acomputer....
[2011/06/23 13:45] herman Bergson: A computer isn't able to give MEANING to words...
[2011/06/23 13:45] herman Bergson: especially within a context...
[2011/06/23 13:45] (tauto): i see.
[2011/06/23 13:45] (taut): i try to write a exact word in english then.
[2011/06/23 13:46] herman Bergson: The plane banks to the bank of the river to avoid crashing into the bank in mainstreet
[2011/06/23 13:46] Mick Nerido: Greek word "nous" not translatable into English
[2011/06/23 13:46] herman Bergson: Well...you could translate it as mind
[2011/06/23 13:47] (tauto): ^^
[2011/06/23 13:47] Mick Nerido: But not exact translated my point
[2011/06/23 13:47] herman Bergson: But it included also the soul
[2011/06/23 13:47] herman Bergson: no...I agree
[2011/06/23 13:48] Mick Nerido: A great class, I must go thanks all for a stimulating discussion
[2011/06/23 13:48] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye „ã°
[2011/06/23 13:48] 방랑자 (tauto): bye Mick
[2011/06/23 13:48] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): bye Mick
[2011/06/23 13:48] herman Bergson: Bye mick...thank you too
[2011/06/23 13:48] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): LOL
[2011/06/23 13:48] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i wont see you til september
[2011/06/23 13:48] Bejiita Imako: ok cu mick
[2011/06/23 13:48] Bejiita Imako: very interesting for sure
[2011/06/23 13:49] herman Bergson: Well....when Mick leaves....I cant hold you here any longer ^_^
[2011/06/23 13:49] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): LOL
[2011/06/23 13:49] herman Bergson: So...thank you all for your participation...
[2011/06/23 13:49] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!!
[2011/06/23 13:49] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): for class
[2011/06/23 13:49] Bejiita Imako: nice once again
[2011/06/23 13:49] herman Bergson: Class dismissed :-))
[2011/06/23 13:49] (tauto): thank you herman and all.
[2011/06/23 13:49] Bejiita Imako: aaa cu
[2011/06/23 13:50] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): thank You Herman..i have a lot to think about again:)
[2011/06/23 13:50] herman Bergson: ok Beertje ^_^
[2011/06/23 13:50] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): bye everybody...