In an era defined by widening income inequality, precarious labour, and the short-term profit imperatives of shareholder capitalism,
The Mondragón Corporation stands as a remarkable anomaly, as I already mentioned in the previous lecture.
Headquartered in the Basque Country of northern Spain, this federation of worker cooperatives has demonstrated that democratic ownership,
social responsibility and international competitiveness need not be mutually exclusive.
With over 81,000 employees and an annual turnover of billions of euros, Mondragón is not a marginal experiment, but Spain’s tenth-largest business group and the leading corporation in the Basque region.
Its longevity—nearly seven decades—and scale render it arguably the most successful example of worker-owned enterprise in modern economic history.
The basic social philosophy was, that human dignity could be realised through meaningful work, that labour must take precedence over capital, and that economic democracy was inseparable from broader social transformation.
In an era of growing discontent with shareholder capitalism, characterized by widening inequality, labour precarity, and the perceived capture of political systems by corporate elites, the cooperative model presents a compelling alternative.
Mondragón demonstrates that large-scale enterprise can be productive, innovative, and internationally competitive without concentrating ownership and control in the hands of a tiny minority.
But it would be naive to present Mondragón as a utopia. The corporation has compromised with capitalist norms in ways that trouble purists.
Its foreign subsidiaries (dochterondernemingen) are not cooperatives. Its workforce includes a significant stratum of non-member wage labourers.
Its governance has become more centralised and managerial. Perhaps the most honest assessment is this: Mondragón is not a finished blueprint but a living experiment.
It has shown that a different kind of economy is possible, but it has not resolved all the tensions inherent in that possibility.
Whether Mondragón can maintain its cooperative soul while competing in the global marketplace remains an open question.
one that carries profound implications for everyone who believes that the economy should serve people, not the other way around.
And again, this leaves us with the question, why is capitalism as an economic system still so powerful?
Thank you for your attention again... the floor is yours...
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:15] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:16] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): rich people don't have the intention to serve other people
[13:16] Max Chatnoir: So when did Mondragon start compromising with other economic designs and why?
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): inddeed Beertje
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they only want to serve themselves
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): want
[13:17] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): Capitalism is not one
[13:17] Max Chatnoir: How much of the corporation is still a corporation?
[13:18] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): laissez-faire, unchecked capitalism is making Karl Marx's prophecy become true
[13:18] herman Bergson: Problems started in the 1980s Max, due to the financial crisis
[13:18] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): one of the many
[13:18] herman Bergson: Well, John, If you look at the current situation, it looks like capitalism is a system of accumulation g as much money as possible by a small group
[13:18] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): financial crises are cyclical
[13:18] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): same as always
[13:19] herman Bergson: yes inherent to the system
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aha
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the power of greed
[13:19] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): greed works
[13:19] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): up to a certain point
[13:19] herman Bergson: Cooperative organisation has never become the standard....
[13:19] herman Bergson: Seems it is always the fight between greed and the will to share
[13:20] Stranger Nightfire: Italian law governing worker cooperatives is highly supportive, rooted in the Constitution, and centered on promoting employee ownership and mitigating unemployment. Key laws include Law 49/1985 (Marcora Law), which facilitates worker buyouts of distressed firms, and Law 381/1991, which regulates social cooperatives, allowing them to integrate disadvantaged workers
[13:21] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): it's a form of company that we have
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the questio is what use is having that much money. Is it just for boasting their "status"
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): =
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ?
[13:21] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): but some are like ordinary companies, only they have less taxation
[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: The Marcora Law (Law 49/1985): Known for enabling worker buyouts, this law allows employees from failed or closing businesses to pool their unemployment benefits to create new worker-owned cooperatives. It offers financial support through companies like CFI (Cooperazione Finanza Imprese) to help save jobs and retain the company's productive base.
[13:21] herman Bergson: That is what Mondragon does too....incorporating workers that lose their job elsewhere...
[13:22] herman Bergson: Problem was however that they had also a lot of wage workers, not being member of the corporation
[13:22] Max Chatnoir: Why was that?
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Why weren't all of the workers members of the corporation?
[13:23] Stranger Nightfire: When it looked like Jeremy Corbyn was the likely next Prime Minister of the UK he had a plan to do something like the Italians did in the UK
[13:23] herman Bergson: When Fagor went bankrupt, 1900 workers were appointed eslwhere, but 3500 were simply fired...not being a member of the corporation...
[13:23] Stranger Nightfire: but that is among the reasons he became widely attacked and slandered by the entire UK establishment
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:24] herman Bergson: Silly thing , isn't it...that they don't like corporations...
[13:24] herman Bergson: There is that small rich 1% that seems to rule this planet
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: So from the beginning of Mondragon, were there two classes of workers? The ones in the corporation and others outside of it/
[13:25] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): today's capitalism is also consumerism
[13:25] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): before consumerism there was a frequent overproduction crisis
[13:25] herman Bergson: No, Max, that problem came later, not in 1941 -1943 when Mondragon started...
[13:25] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): goods have to last very little and be replaced soon
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): planned obsolescence
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: What is consumerism?
[13:26] herman Bergson: Consumerism is one of our capitalist problems
[13:26] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumerism
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: So how did the corporation get "contaminated" or whatever?
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): throwing away and buy ew all the time to feed the corps while the trash mountains grow higher and higher
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): new
[13:26] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): consumerism is problem and solution at once
[13:27] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): you see, for every problem solved in today's society, ten more seem to arise
[13:27] herman Bergson: It always is a matter of money, Max
[13:27] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): Thrash is a commodity too, it's recycled
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: Well, does that mean that corporate organization, for some reason, isn't sustainable?
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes, John, to paraphrase Ronald Reagan.....
[13:28] herman Bergson: The earth is not the problem, WE are the problem ㋡
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hm, we are good at destroying stuff for profit thats for sure
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ad for power
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: So that's why capitalism requires an increasing population?
[13:29] herman Bergson: No, that is not the case, Max...I think the point is more...where does the money go to....
[13:29] Stranger Nightfire: okay if we all watch a video for 4 minutes
[13:29] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): money doesn't really exist
[13:29] Stranger Nightfire: ?
[13:29] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): money is the promise or more wealth produced in the future
[13:30] Max Chatnoir: Well, it does exist as a marker.
[13:30] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the value of money is conventional
[13:30] bergfrau Apfelbaum: many technical devices already have a built-in weakness.... they break down shortly after the warranty expires
[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: it's a good one on capitalism
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said, its just to boast their status it seems, like they hav so much money that they can each build 100 LHC accelerators or similar
[13:31] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): capitalism is like matter. It's like discussing if matter is a good idea or not
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i thik LHC cost like 40 billion to build if i remmbr correct
[13:31] Stranger Nightfire: i will paste the link if you want
[13:31] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie...I even used some device that showed in the display the text.....Working hours have expired....you have to order a new one
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: Sure, Stranger
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 40 billion is just coffeee money fir the ultra rich
[13:32] bergfrau Apfelbaum: wow Herman
[13:32] Stranger Nightfire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YonS9_QJbp8&list=RDYonS9_QJbp8&start_radio=1
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like dyson vacuums that cost 900 dollar and the failure of a small cap render the machine useless and it is on purpose made very hard to repair
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: I 'mthinking of my recently nonfunctional microwave....
[13:34] herman Bergson: I always worry about imminent malfunctions of tools and appliances :-
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: I have to warm up my coffee in a saucepan....
[13:36] herman Bergson: Well, I guess we all enjoy and dislike capitalism
[13:36] herman Bergson: I still have't a clue what the alternative should be
[13:36] herman Bergson: Still working on it
[13:36] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): hmm
[13:37] Max Chatnoir: Well, I lived in joy for a week thinking that somebody had actually figured it out!
[13:37] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): capitalism or collectivism
[13:37] herman Bergson: There are alternatives.....
[13:37] Stranger Nightfire: i have not seen anything more hopefull than something like worker coops
[13:37] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): there are recipes that included the two ingredients
[13:37] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): with others
[13:38] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): but they are almost always present
[13:38] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): there is an example of collectivism or socialism in the US society
[13:38] herman Bergson: But the big issue here is...who is blocking these developments and changes?
[13:38] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): that is the most antisocialist economy of the world
[13:39] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and yet it has to make rrecourse to some socialism to make its economy go
[13:39] Max Chatnoir: So is the problem really only a few greedy piggies, or something else?
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes US companies contacted Mondragon to learn from them
[13:39] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): this socialism is in the armed forces. They work as a socialist organization, uniforms and all
[13:40] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): you'll remember thant Mao and Stalin used to wear uniforms
[13:40] herman Bergson: yes they did
[13:40] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): inoscialism the state decides where to invest and uses state money to do it
[13:40] herman Bergson: Good question Max....
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: whoever "the state" is....
[13:41] Stranger Nightfire: black suit and tie is actually a uniform of sorts
[13:41] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): no the problem is that the system is not engineered
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: what do you mean?
[13:41] herman Bergson: it evolved....
[13:41] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): wheren there is a war, the US can spend taxpayer's money
[13:42] Max Chatnoir: "not engineered"
[13:42] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and that money helps the economy go
[13:42] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): it's a little bit of socialism in a totally capitalistic society
[13:42] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): can you remember a time without a US war?
[13:42] Max Chatnoir: The US can spend taxpayer's money for better activities that killing people.
[13:42] Max Chatnoir: than
[13:43] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): Max, it can, but the economy won't allow it
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: why not/
[13:43] herman Bergson: I recently learned that in the wars since 1945 the US was involved in almost all of them
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): human lives are worthless, only profit matters, sad reality :(
[13:43] herman Bergson: Some 88 wars or so
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: I mean, what in the econony makes that not work?
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it seems
[13:43] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): big corporations are donors to both candidates
[13:44] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the lack of a war brought about the 1929 crisis, probably
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: are those worker orientation corporations?
[13:44] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): so, since then, no long time without a war
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wish we could also stop blowing each other up and make useful things instead that benefit everyone
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and together push forward i a good way
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: OK, why are wars profitable?
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but thats just an utopis I guess
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): utopia
[13:45] Stranger Nightfire: China is the most successful economy on the planet Earth and they have not fought a war since the 1970
[13:45] herman Bergson: War is big business...
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): weapob manufacturing
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): weapon
[13:45] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the most advanced technologies were created during wars
[13:45] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and for wars
[13:45] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the internet was a military project
[13:45] herman Bergson: Indeed Stranger....
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Why are weapons more valuable than say farm machines or cars or movies?
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the microwave oven came from radar
[13:46] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): we started wwII with piston engine planes and ended with jets and rockets
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Indeed, Max
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: Or is there some economic advantage to decimating the population periodically?
[13:47] herman Bergson: Just look at the ingenuity of Ukraine and its drone technology...
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: Because if that's a problem, there are better ways to do it.
[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): no the advantage is in the competition
[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and in the Darwinistic approach for states
[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the most efficient system wins
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: Competition is great, but why focus it on war?
[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): not a choice
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because we are evil
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: Why not?
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least to many of us are evil
[13:48] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the soldiers and the whore are probably the earliest professions
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: I mean, why isn't there a choice?
[13:48] herman Bergson: Ukraine didn't ask for a war
[13:48] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): others than the gatherer, the priest and the hunter
[13:48] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): it's man's ultimate nature, Max
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): destroying each other
[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): even apes fight wars
[13:49] herman Bergson: The lust for power
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hm
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: Yes, competition is natural, but surely we can figure out a less destructive way to do it?
[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): aggressing each others
[13:49] herman Bergson: Power distorts the human brain
[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): but ants have wars
[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): etc.
[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): not just humans
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: Do we have to be ants?
[13:50] herman Bergson: chimps have real territorial wars too
[13:50] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): animals fight over territory and mating partners
[13:50] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): like us
[13:50] herman Bergson: and those are primates...
[13:50] Stranger Nightfire: The Ukrainians who took part in the US inspired coup that overthrew their goverment and instal a government very hostile to the Russians did in fact ask for a war
[13:50] Max Chatnoir: If there is no point to all of this intelligence, then what the heck is it for?
[13:50] Max Chatnoir: Just being reallly good a war?
[13:50] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): what intelligence?
[13:51] herman Bergson: A point there Stranger....and NATO added some more pressure
[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): a stupid programme can easily imitate our so called intelligence
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if our intelligence mostly go to building weapons to blow each other up i guess
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: "imitate" maybe, but does it really replace it/
[13:52] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): it can replace it, sure
[13:52] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): don't you see how easily we can be manipulated?
[13:52] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): look at advertising and political propaganda!
[13:53] herman Bergson: Yes that is really an issue
[13:53] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): we feel alive in the conflict
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: It's very good at computation and that's helpful. And advertising and propaganda come from out little brains.
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: our
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there is a theory called "the big filter" about why we sem to be the only ones un the universe. it says that any lifeform getting intelligent will blow themselves up with mass destruction weapons before they can get out into space. Like the evil side always win in the end
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): quite terrifying theory
[13:54] herman Bergson: funny theory Bejiita ..I like it ㋡
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: Yes, and it certainly seems to be a reasonable argument.
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:55] herman Bergson: Well, before we end up in a Star Trek debate.....
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:55] herman Bergson: let me thank you all agian for your participation....
[13:56] Stranger Nightfire: That assumes but all species would be as angry hateful and hostile is human apes are
[13:56] Max Chatnoir: I would like to know if Gene Roddenberry had figured out a functional economic system.
[13:56] herman Bergson: We still have t ime to figure out what the fun of capitalism is in coming lectures ㋡
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Star Trek shows where we could be if not succumbing to war and green
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): greed
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok sure they have advanced weapon systems in Star Trek too but
[13:57] Stranger Nightfire: Well the economy and the Star Trek civilization had the advantage of things like the replicator technology
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: If we can imagine not succumbing, why can't we do it/
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: succumbing...
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): 3D printers are the closest we get to there i guess
[13:57] herman Bergson: Oh..the creator of Star Trek.... it seems that everything is for free there due to the replictors :-)
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): at least eve i have one of those
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even
[13:58] herman Bergson: Here in SL it also is just Copy/Paste ㋡
[13:58] herman Bergson: So...thank you all...
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe well, that's true
[13:58] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....
[13:58] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman!
[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:58] Jerom Wycliffe: Thanks Herman
[13:58] Stranger Nightfire: Well most commercial products in SL are made either no copy or no transfer
[13:58] herman Bergson: This was fun
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i cant replicate coffee, but i have both a 3D printer AND an espresso machhine so
[13:59] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty for the interesting hour Herman and class
[13:59] herman Bergson: I know, Stranger :-)
[13:59] Max Chatnoir: Fascinating, as always, Herman and class.
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:59] herman Bergson: That is what made people crazy when I created and scripted all kinds of things for free
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its just fun
[14:00] herman Bergson: It is, Bejiita
