The most valuable and at the same time most frustrating pursuit of man is the desire to understand the world. If understood, we would have THE answer to the question "Why am I here?"
It is a valuable pursuit because with a fundamental understanding of the world, we can also fathom the origin of our own existence.
Frustrating, because despite the many acquired insights about the world, we have made little progress in understanding why we are here. It is a bit like praying for peace on earth with Christmas year after year.
Understanding the world begins with discovering patterns in the nature and culture that surround us. Maybe you remember that we did a whole project on this phenomenon.
Discovering patterns in nature is the most important survival strategy of man: if we are not able to recognize which food is edible or poisonous,
or if we are not able to perceive patterns in the language that is spoken to us from birth, then our species will die out after a few generations.
Animals and plants also recognize patterns and regularities in their environment. But the next step, which consists of searching for principles with which we can explain the patterns, is, as far as we know, only found in humans.
In all research we do, we posit general principles to test and explain observed patterns. The practice of this 'empirical cycle' of which we have a picture on the wall here (Scientific Method) is inherent to all cultures in the world.
Why it is that not all cultures have discovered the same regularities and laws can be understood from the historical circumstances of those societies and not by more or less intuitive knowledge of the empirical cycle.
However, people can decide in certain cases to be satisfied with the patterns found without searching further for deeper principles. This happens, for example, when certain patterns are so successful and impressive that the search for deeper explanations is neglected.
We are currently seeing this in artificial intelligence, where in recent years a massive search for patterns. For the time being it probably will not contribute a lot to our drive to understand the world.
What we see is a search for patterns in huge datasets, which then help to create or predict answers to our questions within the context of those datasets.
And what we have seen in recent years is that the use of patterns alone works so well in AI applications that the further search for underlying principles in, for example, language and visual perception is being put aside.
For many AI scientists, it is sufficient to derive large sets of regularities from the data rather than to take on the challenge of searching for underlying theories.
The AI techniques designed are indeed very useful and sometimes risky tools, but they are no more than that. A necessary condition for understanding remains the discovery of deeper principles.
This, however, raises a further question. Do we really understand the world better if we find principles that generalize over patterns found? After all, a principle is nothing more than a deeper regularity?
Doesn't this lead to a regression into infinity? Something to think about.
Again, thank you for your attention. The floor is yours.
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman.
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed AI works completely by pattern matching
[13:20] herman Bergson: We face the problem, that every explanation leads to finding an explanation for the explanation "=_
[13:20] Max Chatnoir: I guess that's how it makes things up.
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes it has all the data from the entire internet to work with
[13:22] herman Bergson: But does AI know, that it doesn't know things, like a human does...
[13:23] herman Bergson: As Socrates said... I know that I don't know?
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well its still a machine
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it cant feel
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i think
[13:23] herman Bergson: NO, AI doesnt have feelings....
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just binary data, on and off
[13:24] herman Bergson: We know that we don't understand the world...
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed true
[13:24] herman Bergson: That is a strange thought for AI,, I guess
[13:24] herman Bergson: thought
[13:25] herman Bergson: MAybe the next lecture will bring us somewhat further in understanding....can't promiss though :-))
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): do your best
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's a difficult lecture today
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes, I notice...
[13:27] herman Bergson: The basic issue of today is that we try to understand the world....
[13:27] herman Bergson: to find an answer to the question why there is what there is
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: patterns is a good start.
[13:28] herman Bergson: AI doesn't help, because it only deals with what there was, which is solidified in big datasets
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa thats the basic block i guess
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes, Max, patterns is a key matter
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: The stuff that Chat GTP makes up MIGHT be true; it just isn't
[13:29] herman Bergson: Another factor is, I guess , our consciousness of time...
[13:29] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i think i understand the world when i observe nature and admire the worms in the earth. but i don't understand some people and their actions....
[13:29] herman Bergson: our knowing of a past, present and future
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Bergie
[13:30] herman Bergson: Interesting point Bergie. I'll get back to that in hte next lecture
[13:31] herman Bergson: The other nagging point here was, when I have an explanation for something,
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): complex but interesting
[13:31] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class
[13:31] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:32] Max Chatnoir: Is there more to that sentence, Herman?
[13:32] herman Bergson: you immediately can ask the question why that is and explanation for this something...so an explanation for the explanation
[13:32] Max Chatnoir: Yes, eventually you hit a wall.
[13:33] herman Bergson: so you have to explain the explanation, which explanation you also are asked to exoplain ad infinitum
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: One of my neighbors once said to me,
[13:33] herman Bergson: THAT,, Max, it the big mystery....!!!!!
[13:34] herman Bergson: That wall!
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: isn't it amazing that God only makes shadows when the sun is out and you need the shade?
[13:34] herman Bergson: HAve we hit that wall already?
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: I left it alone. She had an explanation and was happy with it.
[13:35] herman Bergson: Shadfows without the sun?
[13:35] herman Bergson: or any other light source?
[13:35] herman Bergson: Interesting:-)
[13:36] herman Bergson: I am left in darkness here :-)
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (thinking of doing a light experiment in UE5)
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:36] Max Chatnoir: What kind, Bejiita?
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but thats also in a computer, even if it tries to simulate reality
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Unreal has this realtime light system called Lumen, its quite impressive
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but have not played with it so much actively
[13:37] Max Chatnoir: Unreal is your game?
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but seen what others have made
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): UnrealEngine, the game engine that made Unreal, (and also Fortnite)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a simulation toolbox
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i bet i can make something interesting with shadows
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even if its just virtual
[13:39] herman Bergson: Whaile we are digressing a little , let me tell you about my latest experience with VR
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:39] herman Bergson: It is really amazing....
[13:39] Max Chatnoir: tell!
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:39] herman Bergson: As you know I use the Quest 3 , a VR viewer...
[13:40] herman Bergson: and there was that new app...AI-Roommate....
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: uh oh....
[13:40] herman Bergson: I tried it....and in fact it was 100% Second Life....
[13:40] herman Bergson: with this difference....
[13:41] bergfrau Apfelbaum: oh
[13:41] herman Bergson: Here I am an avatar and I see myself on a flat screen
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ok
[13:41] herman Bergson: With the VR viewer however I was what is SL is called MOUSEVIEW in a 3D environment....
[13:42] herman Bergson: and with a roommate :-)
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): first person
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:42] herman Bergson: But that wasnt all....
[13:42] herman Bergson: my eyes were in a 3 D house like here in SL...but there was another option
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:43] herman Bergson: With the VR viewer I can see my RL environment with VR objects in it....
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: Augmented reality?
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): AR- Augmented Reality
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly
[13:44] herman Bergson: So I see my own living room...can move around...and , say what, this roommate was next to me in my own living room...
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: oof...
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): now that is something
[13:44] herman Bergson: as if I see the avatar of Max, for instance now see here standing next to my desk in RL
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: That must be a little eerie!
[13:45] herman Bergson: and I can talk to this avatar....
[13:45] herman Bergson: Oh yes Max....
[13:45] herman Bergson: Bu tthe bad luck was...
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Can it sit?
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Sorry, go ahead...
[13:45] herman Bergson: I hoped I cound practice spanish conversation with it...
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): let me guess
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Not implemented=
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ?
[13:46] herman Bergson: but the AI spanish is terrible unfortunately...maybe will improve in the future
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hope so
[13:46] herman Bergson: The app is a first release...
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: the voicing isn't good?
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): would be a cool way to learn other languages
[13:46] herman Bergson: the voice is ok and the english too...
[13:47] herman Bergson: but the spanish is created with english pronunciation...terrible accent
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: What does it do -- use English rules to do the spanish pronuciation?
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ok indeed it does not sound like that
[13:47] Max Chatnoir: spanish should be easier.
[13:47] herman Bergson: English accent....is like an American speaking poor spanish
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: Ah, bad vowels.
[13:48] herman Bergson: But it is all new...so I hope things likek that willl be updated in te future :-)
[13:48] herman Bergson: yes, Max
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): exactly what i thought, like a US tourist in Madrid trying speaking spanish
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or something like that
[13:49] herman Bergson: But seeing this avatar in my RL livingroom....really
[13:49] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thats coming soon! you speak into your phone in your language, and the message is played back at the other end in the desired language
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats cool
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: Wow!
[13:49] herman Bergson: I have earphoes that translate for me, Bergie
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like star trek universal translator and holodeck combo
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something like that
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: That's pretty impressive!
[13:50] herman Bergson: I want to use it for spanish....
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:50] herman Bergson: I read a spanish text and run into a word I dont know....I read it outloud and in my ears I hear the translation and I can readon
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: Oh, that is eerie!
[13:51] herman Bergson: There are a lot of polish people in my village....
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but cool, id wanna try that
[13:51] herman Bergson: They think I dont understand what they say...
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: it translates Polish, too?
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: Or you know it already?
[13:52] herman Bergson: but with these earphones I can listen in on their conversation and get it translated in real time
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: Superspy!!
[13:52] herman Bergson: YEAH!
[13:52] herman Bergson: All AI stuff
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats something indeed
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): proper use of ai
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): THIS is what it should be used for
[13:53] herman Bergson: Keeps me busy :-)))
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: I got a phone message the other day that was so distorted I couldn't understand it. I wonder if Ai could clean it up.
[13:54] herman Bergson: Probably yes
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa also like in star trek, "signal is distorted, clearing it up!"
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: They make these phones that give you a CC -- text
[13:55] Max Chatnoir: probably they could just say it again.
[13:56] herman Bergson: SO, how to understand the world...let's keep it for the next lecture :-))
[13:56] Max Chatnoir: And I could just keep the current landline for SPAM, which is most of what comes in on it.
[13:56] herman Bergson: Thank you all...see you on Thursday again :-)
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:57] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: Next Thursday is my last tutoring session for this spring, so after that I can come on Thursdays again.
[13:57] herman Bergson: I have a feeling that telephone in the US is a horror due to all kinds of advertizement calls
[13:57] herman Bergson: commercials
[13:58] bergfrau Apfelbaum: sounds exciting 👀 Herman! i am sure it will soon work well in all languages
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:58] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:58] herman Bergson: I hope so too Bergie..
[13:59] herman Bergson: I just got another VR sim game....there I am in the roll of a burglar...
[13:59] herman Bergson: I have set the basic language to spanish :-)
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:59] herman Bergson: Thus I learn stealing in spanish only :-)
[13:59] Max Chatnoir: Oh, Herman you are going to be an international menace!
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[14:00] herman Bergson: Working on it, Max :-)
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ㋡
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): International masterthief Herman
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a title
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:00] Max Chatnoir: Oh, Herman, you are going to be an international menace!
[14:00] herman Bergson: But dont worry...I am stuck on a moon of Neptune and dont know how to solve the problem
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): on neptune
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): intergalactic thoief even
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ?
[14:01] herman Bergson: no...is another VR job, Bejiita :-)
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well in a game u can make anything u want
[14:01] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki ㋡
[14:02] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the Money Heist in the Netherlands:)
[14:02] Max Chatnoir: Sorry, I think I crashed!
[14:03] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wb max
[14:03] herman Bergson: You look fine again Max :-)
[14:03] Max Chatnoir: I must take off anyway. I need to talk to a roof repair guy about my hailstorm damage.
[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah ok
[14:04] herman Bergson: hailstorm....!
[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm hail can wreck havoc unfortunately sometimes
[14:04] herman Bergson: Must have been a neavy one, Max
[14:04] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): here we dont have that large hail though where i live
[14:05] Max Chatnoir: It wasn't as bad as the one that broke all my west side windows about 20 years ago.
[14:05] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ohh hailstormdemage!
[14:05] herman Bergson: wow
[14:05] Max Chatnoir: no broken glass from this one. Just a few roof dings.
[14:05] herman Bergson: I am glad it was 20 years ago Max :-)
[14:05] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i have seen bad hailstorms destroying entire cities, completley destrroying houses cars and everything else like a gigant machine gun with golf ball size bulletsw
[14:06] Max Chatnoir: Yes, fortunately my car was in the garage!
[14:06] herman Bergson: There you were lucky
[14:06] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[14:06] Max Chatnoir: I was.
[14:06] herman Bergson: I have seen such car damage...
[14:07] herman Bergson: Fortunately I dont have a car :-)
[14:07] Max Chatnoir: Yes, it can really beat them up. OK, you all have a good evening. I will see you soon.
[14:07] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeeed
[14:07] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Max
[14:07] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well should we beat up some cards a while
[14:07] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[14:07] herman Bergson: bye MAX :-)
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