The name Aristotle conjures images of the Lyceum, of logic, metaphysics, and ethics. It seldom evokes the intricate workings of markets, the nature of money, or the distribution of wealth.
Yet, embedded within the vast corpus of his work, particularly in the "Politika" and the "Ethica Nicomachea ", lies a coherent and profoundly influential system of economic thought.
As a philosophy student, you never readthe original texts of all the philosophers you study. You read a lot about them, written by others who have read the original texts.
Thus it happened that I never read an original text, written by Aristotle himself, until now. I can tell you, it is an experience.
In the first place it is amazing that these words from more than 2000 years ago have been so well preserved and secondly, his words sound as if they were written yesterday.
The way Aristotle thinks about what happens and should happen in the material world is revealing. You would even wish people would think like he did. Let me explain.
He does not discuss “economics” in the modern sense. For Aristotle, what we term economics was not an autonomous science of wealth maximization
but a subordinate branch of politics and ethics, intrinsically tied to the ultimate human goal: *eudaimonia*, often translated as human flourishing or the good life.
His analysis of production, exchange, and wealth is not a cold, technical dissection of mechanisms, but a moral inquiry into how material goods serve or subvert the proper ends of human community.
And that is already a fascinating beginning. You may remember that we here in class sometimes discussed the question "Shouldn't there be a limit to the accumulation of individual wealth?"
Just imagine that Aristotle was already well aware of this question, and today we still can learn from his answer.
At the heart of his philosophy lies a fundamental and enduring distinction between two forms of acquisition:
"oikonomia", the prudent management of the household aimed at satisfying natural needs,
and "chrematistikē", the art of wealth-getting for its own sake, which he viewed as unnatural and potentially corrosive.
To explore Aristotle’s economic thought is to journey into a world where the market is not free from moral judgment but is instead its primary arena, and where the purpose of wealth is not accumulation but virtuous action.
This is already the first philosophical gem: the relation between the accumulation of wealth and ethics. For Aristotle, a natural thing.
I dare say that contemporary capitalism has completely forgotten this relation.
Thank you for your attention... the floor is yours
To be continued......
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:17] herman Bergson: yes
[13:17] Stranger Nightfire: Like Aristotle I know marks mostly from other people's descriptions of his ideas
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sne second one i have not heard though but is what I would describe as greed
[13:17] Stranger Nightfire: Marx that is of course
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): chrematistikē
[13:18] herman Bergson: Greed could be a translation indeed, I guess
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aha
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:19] herman Bergson: acquiring wealth for its own sake
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for status ect
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: Is the "eco" in economics the same as the "eco" in ecology?
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: household
[13:20] herman Bergson: I don't know Max....my knowledge of Greek is more than 60 years old :-)
[13:20] Daruma Boa: The word economics comes from the Greek oikonomia (oikos = household, nomos = management/law).
[13:20] herman Bergson: I had 5 years of Greek at the gymnasium....
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah yes that sounds familiar
[13:21] herman Bergson: ah yes...
[13:21] herman Bergson: oikos
[13:21] Max Chatnoir: So the environment could be a sort of Household?
[13:21] Max Chatnoir: The place we live in
[13:21] Daruma Boa: yes, for me sounds logical
[13:21] herman Bergson: I guess that might be the etymology of that word
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): donnt rememeber of it it means like self
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or similar
[13:22] Daruma Boa: how to administer resources, land
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a contained system working as a whole
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes it is the same
[13:23] herman Bergson: exo-logy where logy comes from logos = knowledge
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): from Ancient Greek οἶκος (oîkos) 'house' and -λογία (-logía) 'study of')[
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ecology
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: Thanks! I was just going to ask about that!
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: Here is something about the transformation of the concept of economics: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242148194_Oikos_and_Economy_The_Greek_Legacy_in_Economic_Thought
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well the entire planet is our house/home so
[13:24] herman Bergson: The most important point Aristotle makes is the relation between acquiring wealth and ethics....
[13:25] herman Bergson: I'll elaborate on that matter in another lecture
[13:25] Daruma Boa: These day I have the feeling that there are no ethics at all. And when you talk about that you are a looser.
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: Goody!
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Daruma
[13:26] Daruma Boa: Sadly.
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: Oh, I hope it hasn't always been that way.
[13:26] herman Bergson: In the financial world there is little ethics....
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: Make economics great again: MEGA
[13:26] Daruma Boa: yes true
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aha
[13:26] Daruma Boa: Cant hear that anymore.
[13:27] herman Bergson: It was a course in the American MBA educational program., but many years ago cancelled, so I have heard once
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: Oh, really , Herman? I should look at the course requirements at my school.
[13:28] herman Bergson: Ahh interesting Max... I hope you yet find a course on ethics for MBA
[13:29] herman Bergson: would be interesting
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: I'll ask our Provost -- he came out of the school of business.
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: But first, I'll just look at the catalog.
[13:31] herman Bergson: Well, guess we learned something from Aristotle today.... the pro and cons of accumulating unlimited wealth as a moral issue.
[13:31] Stranger Nightfire: Grinding myself thinking about William MacAskill and his Idea of effective altruism
[13:32] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): It would be interesting to hear about slaves in economy. When humans become a commodity. not sure it's philosophy and not history
[13:32] herman Bergson: No, Aristotle is rather explicit about slaves
[13:32] Stranger Nightfire: Pretty ironic that one of his students was was Sam Bankman Fried
[13:32] Max Chatnoir: What does he say, Herman?
[13:33] herman Bergson: They are a commodity...only Greek citzens were human beings
[13:33] herman Bergson: Slaves he sees as instruments to run the oikos
[13:33] herman Bergson: lol
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): oops
[13:33] herman Bergson: the word!
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): shh
[13:34] Daruma Boa: Employees are the new slaves these days;-I)
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i say so indeed
[13:34] Stranger Nightfire: The tolerance of slavery has been a major blind spot for many an otherwise great thinker
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well AI is about to replace us so
[13:35] herman Bergson: I don't know how it is to be a slave....and I wonder how people felt about it in 330 BCE.
[13:35] Daruma Boa: Finally Holidays all day long!
[13:35] Daruma Boa: True Herman. Was not funny for sure.
[13:35] Stranger Nightfire: I suppose that blind tolerance of slavery is something similar to the blind tolerance of the many evils of our current capitalist system
[13:36] Daruma Boa: And evil in general in the world. Politics and so on
[13:36] herman Bergson: I myself would actually be afraid of a slave in my household....how can you trust such a person, that you kind of dominate?
[13:36] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): we are the children of socialist struggles
[13:36] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): only, now socialism is dead
[13:36] Daruma Boa: True Herman
[13:37] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): social classes, proletariat and the return of virtual slavery is our immediate destiny I am afraid
[13:37] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): they are cycles
[13:37] herman Bergson: hmmm socialism dead... got a pont there
[13:38] Stranger Nightfire: Looking back it is kind of amazing more slaves didn't cut their master's throats during their sleep
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, being threated like crap, tortured, humiliated ect
[13:38] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): God is dead too, btw, lol
[13:38] herman Bergson: what is virtual slavery, John?
[13:38] Max Chatnoir: I'm not familiar with the concept of effective altruism.
[13:39] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): when workers were so poor and wages so low, they could not have real choice
[13:39] herman Bergson: Some strange theory. Max
[13:39] Stranger Nightfire: Effective altruism is basically the idea that the most noble saying a bright young man can do is to go into business and make a lot of money because that way he will be able to do good in the world
[13:39] Stranger Nightfire: most noble thing
[13:40] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): it comes from calvinism then
[13:40] Stranger Nightfire: I need to pay attention to what my voice dictation software types sometimes
[13:40] herman Bergson: Like a Bill Gates?
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: Andrew Carnegie said, I think, that a rich man dying rich had failed.
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: Something like that.
[13:40] Stranger Nightfire: I would say that Bill Gates like Sam Bankman Freed is a rather good example of how it doesn't work
[13:41] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): humans have not evolued since Aristotle's times
[13:42] herman Bergson: I agree, John. The brain is still the same imperfect tool.
[13:43] Daruma Boa: But While our brains haven’t changed drastically, culture, language, and institutions have transformed dramatically.
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: But it does work -- that brain.
[13:43] herman Bergson: You just have to listen to the radio...for venturies they still sing...I love you, she doesn't love me anymore and so on :-)
[13:43] Daruma Boa: Yes Max. But who knows how to use it?;-)
[13:44] Daruma Boa: Yes get to know a culture by their Top 10 songs
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: philosophers?? :-)
[13:44] herman Bergson: iIt works, yes, if we only could use it properly :-)
[13:44] herman Bergson: Plato would agree with you, Max :-)
[13:45] herman Bergson: According to him in his Politeia the philosophers should be the ruling class :-)
[13:45] Daruma Boa: 💜
[13:46] Stranger Nightfire: That is the claim of our techno fasc plutocrats that since they are the smart thinking people they should be in charge
[13:46] herman Bergson: Now it is the corporations and the super rich....those whose Aristotle rather not see at the top
[13:46] Max Chatnoir: Let's not forget the ethics
[13:47] Daruma Boa: Every action gets a reaction and everyone is responsible for what you do.
[13:47] Stranger Nightfire: And the guy who might be about to become President of the United States due to Trump's declining health is one of them or at least the minion of one of them namely Peter Thiel
[13:47] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): Nothing really changes, I am afraid
[13:47] Daruma Boa: you get what you sow
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:48] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): empires are always empires
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:48] herman Bergson: Who is Peter Thiel?
[13:48] Daruma Boa: a terrible man
[13:48] Stranger Nightfire: Peter Thiel one of our overlords creator of the Palantir business which is running national surveillance state at this point
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wasnt that the one who hesitated when he got the question if humanity should survive
[13:48] Stranger Nightfire: and has explicitly stated that democracy is a failed experiment
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was something like that
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes that one
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a monster
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): another one
[13:49] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): platos talked about cycles I believe
[13:49] Stranger Nightfire: That the United States should take over Greenland is one of his many brilliant ideas
[13:49] herman Bergson: oh...democracy a failed experiment.....pretty chilling remark
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed!
[13:50] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): democracy leads to anarchy. Anarchy leads to tiranny, tiranny leads to democracy etc.
[13:50] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): all in cycles
[13:50] Daruma Boa: The next 20 years will be quite exciting...
[13:50] Daruma Boa: Everything happens again on another level.
[13:50] herman Bergson: Then there still is hope, John ㋡
[13:50] Daruma Boa: Yes! We are all responsible to change things.
[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): demcocracy becomes anarchy for too much freedom
[13:51] Daruma Boa: You dont have to be a famous and rich person for that.
[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): then people want order and discipline
[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and they support a tirant
[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): I believe the US and Europe are in that phase now
[13:51] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): or approaching to that
[13:52] Stranger Nightfire: Sometimes I contemplate a certain that when the AIS take over they turn to be better than our human elites have been
[13:52] herman Bergson: Is a perspective....
[13:52] Daruma Boa: And when we think too much these thoughts we support this.
[13:52] Daruma Boa: So, be the change you want to see in the world.
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: There's the rub. To be the change, you have to get a little power and power corrupts
[13:53] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): AIs are programs
[13:53] herman Bergson: We are working on that Daruma ㋡
[13:53] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): humasn make them
[13:53] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): and decide how they work
[13:54] Daruma Boa: No making a change is to be a good persoon and connect with people.
[13:54] herman Bergson: yes, I haven't that much faith in unbiased AI
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: We don't need a philosopher king, but maybe we could use a few philosopher congress people?
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:54] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): machines are made to serve humans
[13:54] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): they'll be used to control or substitute humans
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not the other way around + what is the fun like creating an entire project by writing 5 lines of text in a prompt
[13:55] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): the hunger for power is to strong to allow machines to take over
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like i have a friend that bombards me with AI art but it is because although he is into the latest tech a lot wich AI is he is also very lazy
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just sits on the couch watching movies all day
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): getting him to try learn to draw, code, dance ect, i dont see that happen
[13:57] herman Bergson: Well, then it is our time after this discussion to become lazy too....we have deserved it :-)
[13:57] Max Chatnoir: Bet Aristotle got his 10,000 steps per day. :-)
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): AI art is easy for him to do
[13:57] Daruma Boa: Ok...;-)
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): minimal effort
[13:57] herman Bergson: So, thank you all again....
[13:57] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ....
[13:57] John Howard Cassio (sticaatsi): thank you Herman
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman, very interesting again
[13:58] Daruma Boa: Thank you Herman!
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