In 2015, Martin Shkreli, the CEO of Turing Pharmaceuticals, acquired the rights to Daraprim, a decades-old drug crucial for treating a serious parasitic infection that is especially dangerous for people with HIV/AIDS.
After acquiring the drug, he raised the price overnight from about $13.50 per tablet to $750 per tablet—an increase of more than 5,000%.
This caused widespread outrage from the public, medical professionals, and politicians around the world, who saw it as a blatant case of price gouging.
This collective sense of injustice reveals a deep-seated intuition: somehow, there is a "just price" for a product.
The idea of a “just price” has occupied philosophers, theologians, and economists for more than two millennia.
It touches the very heart of economic and moral reasoning: how should value be determined, and what makes an exchange fair?
From Aristotle to Thomas Aquinas and into the modern era, the just price has evolved from a moral principle into an economic abstraction. Today, we'll focus on what Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) had to say.
Aquinas accepted Aristotle’s idea that justice in exchange means equivalence, but he added a moral and theological dimension.
The just price was not simply what the buyer and seller agreed upon. It was the price that reflected the true worth of the good,
ensuring that neither party was unjustly enriched. In practice, this was often seen as the common estimate of value within a community.
For Aquinas, the just price represented moral equality, not mathematical precision. He recognized that value could vary due to circumstances like scarcity or need, but he insisted that these variations must remain within the bounds of fairness.
Charging an excessively high price by exploiting another’s necessity was considered the sin of avarice.
For Aristotle and Aquinas, this debate was held in the arena of ethics. In the coming lectures, we'll see how it shifted into ideas about free markets and supply and demand.
Today, the phrase “just price” has re-emerged in debates about ethical consumption, fair trade, and corporate responsibility. While economists rarely use the term, its moral legacy persists.
Fair trade movements argue that producers, especially in developing countries should receive a “just” compensation reflecting their labor and sustainability efforts.
Philosophers like Michael Sandel, in his book What Money Can’t Buy, have criticized the expansion of market values into all aspects of life, reviving the ancient concern for moral limits in exchange.
Thank you for your attention... the floor is yours.....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:14] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:14] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman.
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:14] herman Bergson: I presented Michael Sandel extensively in project 7 (2012)
[13:14] herman Bergson: oops that is more than ten years ago :-)
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he has slipped my mind
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was i here then? I think so, how long have i been here
[13:15] herman Bergson: but determining the just price is still an issue....
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): more than ever
[13:16] herman Bergson: especially when you live in a country where for instance healthcare not a universal right is but big business
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): exactly
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but pharma is an example if anything of NOT just prices
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for them it is only about making profit, not saving lives, thats why they raise prices like that on such important medications and why so many still die of these diseases, because only the rich can afford the medicine
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it's evil if u ask me
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Thatis what Thomas said
[13:19] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): who desides what is a just price for an item?
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the maker or the seller
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: And what are you justified in factoring in?
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what does it cost to produce, things like that
[13:19] Lukkie Sands: That was a moral question then, Beertje.....
[13:19] herman Bergson: Yes indeed...
[13:20] herman Bergson: For Aristotle and Thomas it meant fairness and equality....
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mixing chemicals cant be that expensive, that price hike after the takeover was only about profit
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cant be anything else
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): also, as sai, saving lives
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): said
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well have to consider the research that made the meds
[13:21] herman Bergson: So a builder would not build a house for the shoemaker in exchange for just one shoe
[13:21] herman Bergson: There has to be an equilibrium in the exchange
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): depends on the size of his feet:)
[13:22] herman Bergson: And fairness is a moral feature....
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true Herman
[13:22] Stranger Nightfire: Interestingly the last there was a major inflation crisis in the US someone considered a quite conservative Republican president initiated wage and price controls
[13:22] herman Bergson: ok ㋡
[13:22] Stranger Nightfire: Raise prices and you go to jail
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes yes....a lot of countries have laws that block such exsessive price gouging.
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i usually say there should be a win win, like if you make something good for a fair price i will come back again and again but otherwise i will probably not buy even one thing from the producer
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ( and he turned out to be a crook!
[13:24] herman Bergson: But more interesting is that after the Middle Ages this moral aspect of economics fell silent.....
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): if you get a lot of customers you will still make money and both then win in the end
[13:24] herman Bergson: economics became a matter of figures...supply and demand
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats how i think
[13:25] herman Bergson: The reasons for this shift are complex, but one of the main reasons is the increasing trade in the world.
[13:26] herman Bergson: For Aristotle the debate was focused on managing the household....
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the original meaning of the word econonomy
[13:26] herman Bergson: But just think of beginning colonialism...alll those ships that plunder foreighn shores
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): looking for gold, silver , and spices and more
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): selling humans
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:27] herman Bergson: In the coming lectures we'll show who were responsible for this shift towards capitalism.....
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: pricing of athletic games
[13:29] Stranger Nightfire: Of the British Empire there were even some Victorian economomists who were pointing that the cost of all that militarism to support empire was costing more than they were gaining from it
[13:29] herman Bergson: What crosses my mind is the observation that it looks almost impossible to find another system than capitalism if you look at history
[13:29] herman Bergson: Winning millions in the American Open....just a tennisgame
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or like now, to watch sports on TV you need to pay about 100$ per month for a sport channel. because the players have fantasy salaries
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): of millions of dollars per game
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): per player
[13:30] Max Chatnoir: yikes!
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and so watching sport today is also only for the rich
[13:31] herman Bergson: oh my....I fortunaltely do not subscribe to a sport channel
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): me either
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but I know lots who do
[13:31] herman Bergson whispers: Is it expensive in the US, Gemma/
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and like before you could watch many national games on public service channels but now thay also are moving to these expensive subscription channels
[13:32] herman Bergson: Well, what would be a "just price"
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): there is way too much money involved in sports
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just a game, a play
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): copied
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Sports channel prices in the USA range from around $8 to over $125 per month, depending on the service and the amount of content included. Streaming-only services like Peacock and Paramount+ start at around $8-$11/month for specific sports, while live TV streaming bundles that include major sports networks start at about $46/month with options like Sling TV and go up to $124.99/month for packages like DIRECTV's Ultimate
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fun to watch but dont produce anything of real value
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there are loads
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): those are just a few
[13:33] Stranger Nightfire: How about the of tickets to music events That has an insane capitalist monopoly
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right!!!
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): then i have thought, i make things for golf courses, golf is also just a game even if i work as a welder
[13:33] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but i make a physical product
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i have thought about this many times
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): a thought game
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but also i dont have fantasy salary like fotball players
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so the idea falls there a bit,
[13:35] herman Bergson: One thing may be clear.... morality, fairness, fair exchange... all such concepts have disappeared from the economic debate on prices
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): actually some of the salaries shown include money from othre companies
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): like shoe companies for wearing their shoes
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sure evryone including fotball players should have a decent salary but
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or advertizing other items
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): etc
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): golfers for clubs
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or shirts etc
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but they are still sort of outrageous sounding
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed, crazy amounts of money
[13:38] herman Bergson: At least Fair Trade actions and demands and people like Michael Sandel show us that the debate is re-emerging and not dead.
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:39] herman Bergson: There are still good people.... ㋡
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:39] Stranger Nightfire: Consider what some of us in the United States are forced to pay for an Internet connection
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): like people of the repaircafe..they work for free
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): correct
[13:39] Stranger Nightfire: It is some insane price gouging
[13:40] herman Bergson: Is it?
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm heard some similar stories here too
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and we cannot pick oer chose in some places
[13:40] herman Bergson: What prices are you talking about Stranger?
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the one company controls an area
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: And I could not believe my last electric bill.
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wild
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): here it is part of my montly rent so i dont pay extra for internet
[13:40] Stranger Nightfire: In my case I am paying $107 a month for a mediocre connection
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): only the electricity
[13:41] Stranger Nightfire: The company could He usually charged me $20 and make a profit
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: That does seem like a lot!
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ooof Stranger, thats expensive
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sheesh
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): here the minimum internet starts at 80 a month
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and is not usually enough
[13:42] herman Bergson: I pay a 92 dollar for highspeed internet + TV with dozens of free channels
[13:42] Stranger Nightfire: It costs me about one tenth of my entire income
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): give us your password!
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): normally a decent internet connection here used to be between 200-300SEK/month
[13:42] herman Bergson: ㋡
[13:43] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I ay 78 Euro for high speed + tv with a lot of chanels
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): = 32 dollar a minth
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): month
[13:43] herman Bergson: YEs I pay 80 euro amonth
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): what gets me is that we cannot choose one channel we like
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): have ot do a bundle
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed Gemma
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): half of which we dont want
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to get that one channel
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and most are crap, porn, commercials ect
[13:44] herman Bergson: I have way too many channels I could watch....
[13:44] Stranger Nightfire: There are a few places in the US where Internet is a public utility and in those places people pay about 15 dollars a month
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some cities have their own
[13:44] herman Bergson: That is how it should be
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sounds fair
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh well
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not going to solve this
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i happily pay for things but as said, it have to be ...fair
[13:46] herman Bergson: My health insurance is 279 dollar a month....includes every medical action and free dentist
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yay
[13:46] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's like the heating here, we have no choise were to buy it, it just 1 compagnie and they can ask the prize whatever they want
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true here also
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Netherlands is being advertized as a best place to visit this winter
[13:47] herman Bergson: I wonder if that is true, Beertje...they have space to manipulate...but I think, not all freedom
[13:47] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nice articles about it
[13:47] Stranger Nightfire: If the minimum wage in the United States had simply kept up with inflation he would be at about $23 An hour now
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's just 1 compagnie
[13:47] Stranger Nightfire: instead of the 7 50 that it is
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in some states yes stranger
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): terrible that DC does nothing about it
[13:48] Max Chatnoir: Yes, minimum wage is way too low.
[13:48] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): all these years
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): in CT it is up to over 16 dikkarss
[13:49] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): dollars even
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: Well, that's better, but. ...
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): a few states even better
[13:50] Lukkie Sands: In the Netherlands it is aBOUT 17 dollar per hour
[13:50] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): with what is going on here with financial help for poor stopping tomorrow even the food pantries will not be able to help
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nutty
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i heard about these things :(
[13:51] Lukkie Sands: that peculiar system of shutting dow the government.....weird
[13:51] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): mild word
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I say Trump lets the poor die so he can finance his golfing!
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and build huge buildings
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and build his damn ballroom
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): adn knock down half the white house
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he is a monster
[13:52] Lukkie Sands: in fact it is criminal....why do people pay taxes????
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes i saw that
[13:52] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he hasn't build anything yet
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): GUUUUH
[13:52] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): a big hole
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he destroys EVRYTHING
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and he fired the comission that is to look at the plans yesterday
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ong
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sigh
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): omg
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): OMG!!!
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes i heard that Gemma
[13:53] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): getting a headache
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just...... UUUUUUUUH!
[13:53] herman Bergson: But keep up the good spirit.... eventually this ship will sink....
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hopefully
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: Let's hope it doesn't take the country with it.
[13:54] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): andanother better boat be built hopefully, if it isnt already too late with everything he have done so far
[13:54] herman Bergson: NO, I don't think so Max....I still am an optimist
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all damage done
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): all lives lost ect
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its crazy
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and sad
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed hope the ship will turn around soon
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): upward
[13:55] Max Chatnoir: Did you see that he said congress wasn't really necessary for the rest of his term because off the BBB?
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes i am sure
[13:55] herman Bergson: So, put a smile on your face and look forward to a nice weekend... ㋡
[13:55] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:55] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ty
13:57] herman Bergson: DeepSeek rated it with a 9/10
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa nice
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): even that agree
[13:57] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:58] herman Bergson: Reading the concluding judgement made me blush :-)))
[13:58] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): good:)
[13:59] Lukkie Sands: This text is a standout example of how to teach the history of economic thought. It is engaging, clear, and intellectually robust. The Shkreli example is not just a gimmick; it is an integral part of the pedagogical structure that makes Aquinas's philosophy feel vital and necessary. The lecture is likely to be both understood and remembered by its audience.
[13:59] herman Bergson: Lukkie!
[13:59] Max Chatnoir: Wow, pretty nice!
[13:59] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): tell us more Lukkie:)
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaaa ㋡
[13:59] herman Bergson: You may be my secretary, but I didn't allow you to post this
[13:59] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hhe
[14:00] Lukkie Sands: here...
[14:00] Lukkie Sands: This text is highly effective and well-crafted. It serves as a near-perfect model for how to make historical economic thought accessible and compelling. The structure is logical, the language is clear, and it expertly bridges the gap between a 13th-century theologian and a 21st-century moral dilemma.
[14:00] herman Bergson: That is enough...! You are fired ㋡
[14:00] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hallo Bergie
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lool
[14:00] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa there is Bergie
[14:00] bergfrau Apfelbaum: whisper... a later halliehello:-)
[14:01] bergfrau Apfelbaum: late
[14:01] herman Bergson: Hi Bergie
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