What is a just price for the goods we buy? By the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries, thinkers such as Luis de Molina, Domingo de Soto,
and Francisco Suárez of the School of Salamanca began to interpret the just price more dynamically.
They agreed with Aquinas that prices should be just, but they also recognized that in a growing commercial economy, it was difficult to define a “true” value independent of supply and demand.
Thus, they began to argue that the market itself, if free from fraud and coercion, could reveal the just price.
Luis de Molina wrote that “the just price is determined by the common estimation of the market,” meaning by the collective judgment of buyers and sellers.
This was a critical step toward modern economic thinking; justice in exchange was no longer a fixed moral standard, but an outcome of voluntary transactions among informed participants.
However, the scholastics maintained moral boundaries. A merchant who took advantage of famine to raise prices excessively, or who monopolized goods, still acted unjustly.
Thus, while they allowed market forces to play a role, they continued to see prices as subject to ethical evaluation.
The late scholastics were therefore a bridge between medieval moral theology and the emerging science of political economy.
They preserved Aristotle’s notion of fairness but blended it with empirical observation of trade, risk, and competition.
Beneath these empirical observations, however, remained a core belief in fairness, rooted in the concept of Natural Law.
Maybe you remember that video of the two little apes, where one always received a grape as a reward and the other just a piece of cucumber.
The one who got only a piece of cucumber got really upset about the fact that his colleague received a grape as a reward for the same task: UNFAIR! An example of the existence of Natural Law?
At least the concept of Natural law becomes a universal moral constraint on power, a limit on the actions of kings and empires, and it becomes the normative foundation of early economic thought.
In this context, Natural Law referred to the idea that certain moral principles are inherent in human nature and can be discovered through reason, rather than being imposed by rulers or institutions.
Thank you for your attention.. the floor is yours..
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:10] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:11] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:11] herman Bergson: The idea of natural law fascinates me.
[13:11] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aha
[13:11] herman Bergson: It confronts us with the question: are we inherently moral beings ofr on....or is this natural law idea a fiction?
[13:12] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is always the question still to this day
[13:12] herman Bergson: oh yes....
[13:12] herman Bergson: But those little apes of Frans de Waal showed us at least something....
[13:13] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fairness is natural and built into living organisms as instinct i guess
[13:14] herman Bergson: And it oopenes the debate about why certain companies ask exagerated prices for their products in stead of a fair price?
[13:14] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): because not only humans react on this
[13:14] Max Chatnoir: Thank you, Herman.
[13:14] herman Bergson: And why profit mazimization has become the highest goal in commerce
[13:15] Max Chatnoir: Money isn't "natural". And it isn't evenly distributed. and its distribution isn't always parallel to the input effort needed to acquire it.
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well also for ex dogs, our "office schnauser" at work gets grumpy if only served boring dog food while we munch on BBQ on fridays
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats one observation i made
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): she also wants some
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): of that BBQ
[13:16] Max Chatnoir: Yes, my cats have similar opinions!
[13:16] herman Bergson smiles
[13:16] herman Bergson: you see!
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Finance should be taught in all schools
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): before a youngster is on their own
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: ...and ethids...
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes Gemma
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:18] herman Bergson: While in the Middle Ages it still was a truth, the ethical relation with accumulating money and why has been lost these days
[13:18] Max Chatnoir: ethics
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i am not sure it ws so prevelent in the middle ages
[13:18] herman Bergson: An Elon Musk asks for 1000 million for his work.....?!
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): during feudelism
[13:19] Stranger Nightfire: morality is expressly downplayed i the business schools of today
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): when the farmers owed everything to the kings or their vassels
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah indeed stranger
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no 1 trilllion now Herman
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that was the vote
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: I'm not against being compensated for creative work.
[13:19] herman Bergson: Ahh Stranger...yes Max checked that out....No ethics in MBA education...or optional
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he will get 1 trillion over the decade
[13:20] herman Bergson: absurd....
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i bet what they teach there now is akin to that wall street movie with the teacher like a version if Hitler shcreeching to the students GREED IS GOOD! GREED IS GOOD!
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something like that, ethics out the window
[13:21] herman Bergson: Might bre true Bejiita
[13:21] Max Chatnoir: and how many politicians will he be able to buy?
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): asmany as he wants
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but
[13:21] herman Bergson: That is an interesting point indeed Max
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): he really does nto get along with politicians
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): as we saw
[13:21] herman Bergson: Is he going to buy Trump a third term? :-)))
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he can help a lot of poor people now alover the world
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nopehey are on the outs again
[13:22] herman Bergson: So much for natural law in our soul....
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): :(
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:23] herman Bergson: The eternal question...
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: I suspect it might buy a constitutional modification, unless the courts stand up.
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:23] Max Chatnoir: Maybe they will, but I'm not totally confident.
[13:23] herman Bergson: What modification are you thinking of, Max?
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): could be many
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): free speech is not free speech
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: forbidding a third term
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): everyone must carrry a gun
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ithink he has it in his head now that he wont be able to do that
[13:25] herman Bergson: Everything is for sale in the US?
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders)
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no just up for grabs
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: It's already an amendment, but I guess it's part of the constitution.
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it sure is
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I dont think his health is going to hold either
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yet there still seems to be hope becaue NY elected MAndani....
[13:26] herman Bergson: He incorperates everything people like to hate...
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): all over the country places never blue voted blue
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): boards of ed
[13:26] herman Bergson: he is muslim, has socialist ideas etc
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): mayors
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): etc
[13:26] Max Chatnoir: That is a little encouraging.
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump want to innvade NY i read in the paper today because of Mandani
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): guuuuh!
[13:27] herman Bergson: Virginea went all blue
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and keep all the money owed ny
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): nyc that is
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): lots more suits will be in courts after Januuary
[13:28] herman Bergson: So, belief in natural law might be justified yet a little :-)
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hope so indeed
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: Could we just get back to the rule of law?
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I think so
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the rule of natural law?
[13:29] herman Bergson: That would be nice Gemma
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes!
[13:29] Max Chatnoir: And money is not speech.
[13:30] herman Bergson: But money talks, Max :-)
[13:31] Max Chatnoir: It's that distribution problem -- it isn't equally accessible, so some people get to scream.
[13:31] herman Bergson: Ok,, we'll be leaving the MIddle Ages and the relation between ethics and economics....
[13:32] herman Bergson: and money will be speaking another language then.....
[13:32] Max Chatnoir: FREE speech!
[13:32] herman Bergson: Unfortunately not FREE money, Max :-)
[13:33] Max Chatnoir: Isn't that what makes it not speech?
[13:33] herman Bergson: So, thank you all again....
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Free speech is not the same as to say everything
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ty
[13:33] herman Bergson: Unless you still have that one question....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:34] Guestboook van tipjar stand: Gemma Cleanslate donated L$100. Thank you very much, it is much appreciated!
[13:34] herman Bergson: Class dismissed..
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well this is about as good as it gets
[13:34] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman!
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:34] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class!
[13:34] herman Bergson: This lecture got a score of 8.5 :-))
[13:34] bergfrau Apfelbaum: clapclap
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay
[13:35] Päivi (nicolesteel): Thank you herman
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): At least we here I think have been lucky enough to have some money
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: :-)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:35] herman Bergson: I really love the critical review of my lectures by DeepSeek
[13:35] herman Bergson: So true Gemma....
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hope to see you Thursday
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: Me, too, Gemma!
[13:36] herman Bergson: What is your impressin PAVI?
[13:36] herman Bergson: impression
[13:37] Päivi (nicolesteel): I like be here and listen, een if I dont talk so much. I am learning
[13:37] herman Bergson: This class is runningn in this way since 2007
[13:37] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): shh
[13:37] herman Bergson: Dont worry....you are not required to say anything unless you like it yourself
[13:37] Päivi (nicolesteel): I do look forward to see how things ends up in NYC
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm indeed
[13:38] herman Bergson: Yes, interesting situation.....
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no Trump invasion hopefully
[13:38] herman Bergson: Most interesting is that Americans decided to VOTE for this person and his ideas....
[13:38] herman Bergson: that is telling
[13:39] Päivi (nicolesteel): Greed maybe, they thought he would be good for their personal economy?
[13:39] herman Bergson: Maybe a mayority of Americans have reached the state of "enough is enough"
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they are booing at Trump EVERYWHERE now
[13:40] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): he doesn't care
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): he just want them all to die and then he steals their money
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats how evil he is
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: Being president doesn't require their continuing approval.
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): in hell there is a spcial place for him
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just himself
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:42] herman Bergson: oh...is there Beertje?
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed i hope so Beertje
[13:42] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes, he can't reach a dime:)
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