325: The Brain and Consciousness

The history of mankind in the last three hundred years has been punctuated by major upheavals in human thought that we call scientific revolutions

- upheavals that have profoundly affected the way in which we view ourselves and our place in the cosmos. First there was the Copernican revolution -

the notion that far from being the centre of the universe, our planet is a mere speck of dust revolving around the sun.

Then there was the Darwinian revolution culminating in the view that we are not angels but merely hairless apes, as Huxley once pointed out.

And third there was Freud's discovery of the "unconscious" - the idea that even though we claim to be in charge of our destinies, most of our behaviour is governed by a cauldron of motives and emotions which we are barely conscious of.

Your conscious life, in short, is nothing but an elaborate post-hoc rationalisation of things you really do for other reasons. But now we are poised for the greatest revolution of all - understanding the human brain.

This will surely be a turning point in the history of the human species for, unlike those earlier revolutions in science, this one is not about the outside world,

not about cosmology or biology or physics, but about ourselves, about the very organ that made those earlier revolutions possible.

These were not my words but those of Vilayanur S Ramachandran, one of the leading neuroscientists of today, at the Reith Lectures in 2003.

Until very recently, most neurobiologists did not regard consciousness as a suitable topic for scientific investigation.

This reluctance was based on certain philosophical mistakes, primarily the mistake of supposing that the subjectivity of consciousness made it beyond the reach of an objective science.

Once we see that consciousness is a biological phenomenon like any other, then it can be investigated neurobiologically. Consciousness is entirely caused by neurobiological processes and is realized in brain structures.

The essential trait of consciousness that we need to explain is unified qualitative subjectivity.

Consciousness thus differs from other biological phenomena in that it has a subjective or first-person ontology,

but this subjective ontology does not prevent us from having an epistemically objective science of consciousness.

We need to overcome the philosophical tradition that treats the mental and the physical as two distinct metaphysical realms.

These words of John Searle, one of the leading philosophers of mind today, direct our attention to the very first problem we have to tackle: THE MIND - BODY problem.

We are all convinced, that we have a mind and a body, but the idea that the mind is just a feature of the body is not common knowledge.

Many believe that the mind is something that resides inside of us, more or less separate from the body. The way we often talk about ourselves is in such a way as if the mind is almost independent of the body.

This is what is called Dualism: mind and body regarded as two separate entities. or even as two different substances. This way of thinking about man is more than 300 years old and it was Descartes (1576 - 1650) who "invented" this philosophy.

So, this will be our first hurdle to take: in line with what I have said before, I have to convince you philosophically, that dualism is fundamentally mistaken about the relation between body and mind.


The Discussion

[13:20] herman Bergson: I'll do that in my next lecture....thank you :-)
[13:20] herman Bergson: If you have any questions or remarks...feel free...
[13:21] herman Bergson: Hi Gemma :-)
[13:21] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hellihello Gemma :-))
[13:21] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[13:21] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:21] Kiki Walpanheim: hi gemma
[13:22] Mick Nerido: I think the dualism of body and mind goes further back the Descartes...
[13:22] herman Bergson: what are you thinking of Mick?
[13:23] Mick Nerido: Like the soul and body in religion
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes indeed.....
[13:23] herman Bergson: But that is actually a distinction between a soul and a body....
[13:23] herman Bergson: Related to ideas of afterlife
[13:24] herman Bergson: It was Descartes who made a distinction between thinking/the mind and the body...
[13:24] Kiki Walpanheim: where does the first person feeling come for me?
[13:24] herman Bergson: from the brain Kiki, I would say
[13:24] Kiki Walpanheim: why am i me not others?
[13:25] Mick Nerido: Our conciousness seems so onrelated to our bodies ie. foot hands etc.
[13:25] herman Bergson: well....when your brain is malfunctioning you CAN be others....schizofrenia is an example
[13:25] Nitro Fireguard: ·What difference could we make between mind and counciousness
[13:25] Mick Nerido: unrelated
[13:25] Qwark Allen: mmm there they think others think for them
[13:26] herman Bergson: In fact I make no difference between mind and consciousness...
[13:26] Kiki Walpanheim: if physical things dont change at all, it still makes sense if my 1st person view is others, not me
[13:26] herman Bergson: two words referring to the same thing
[13:26] Kiki Walpanheim: yet i am just me
[13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Kiki.....this first person feature is a unique feature of the brain...
[13:27] Kiki Walpanheim: thats the point when i cant find answer and tempt to resort to spirituality...yet i doubt that thing strongly too since they cant be observed empirically
[13:28] herman Bergson: Main issue here is that there does not exist some special substance or material that we can call mind or consciousness
[13:29] herman Bergson: There is nothing inside my body that is independent of it....
[13:29] herman Bergson: Like some people think who believe to have a soul
[13:30] Mick Nerido: All brain function is electro chemical including the so called conciousness?
[13:31] Cocoa Moonkill: if consciousness is a property of body - is it related to humans only?
[13:31] herman Bergson: I wouldnt say that.....
[13:31] herman Bergson: no Cocoa....
[13:31] herman Bergson: Let me put it this way...
[13:32] herman Bergson: The elctro chemical activity in the brain CAUSE the minde or consciousness
[13:32] Kiki Walpanheim: and the materials composing my body keeps refreshing and changng, yet i still have the consistent first person feeling of beingme
[13:32] herman Bergson: Ohhh...Kiki.....THAT is a serious philosophical debate...personal identity.....
[13:33] herman Bergson: We certainly will get to that to
[13:33] Kiki Walpanheim: oh
[13:33] Cocoa Moonkill: then animals can have that "first person" feeling also?
[13:33] herman Bergson: Well Cocoa...to some extend, yes.....
[13:33] herman Bergson: not all but some do....
[13:33] Mick Nerido: we are anamals with big brains
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: so..you dont wake up every day..pick a personality cloth..put it on..and walk out the door to live...?
[13:34] herman Bergson: When you look in the mirror you say…hey...that is ME....
[13:34] Cocoa Moonkill: mmmm... I would not recognize my face on the street
[13:34] herman Bergson: No Kyra..neither do you pick up a new brain every day :-)
[13:34] Kiki Walpanheim: some low level animals might not; thinking about soil worms which live as two worms when you cut it to two parts
[13:34] Kyra Neutron: "consistent me"
[13:35] Cocoa Moonkill: it is completely "inner" feeling
[13:35] Kyra Neutron: who can call itself "consistent"?
[13:35] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): but little children do not recognize themselves in the mirror?
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well the mirror test is regarded as a proof of a sense of personal identity
[13:35] herman Bergson: They do pretty fast Siggi.....
[13:36] herman Bergson: Dont know exactly when...but maybe even after 6 months or less even
[13:36] Kiki Walpanheim: the 1st person feelings of consciousness is kinda ..hmm...confusing to me...maybe that is just the way things are..
[13:37] herman Bergson: But to get back to personal identity.....some animals like elephants and chimps recognize themselves in a mirror....
[13:37] Kyra Neutron: idk...if you can watch yourself in the mirror...who is who ? kinda messy
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes Kiki....that is how the brain works...
[13:38] herman Bergson: .
[13:38] herman Bergson: You mean you dont recognize yourself in the mirror Kyra?
[13:38] Kyra Neutron: actually no :)
[13:38] herman Bergson frowns
[13:39] Kyra Neutron: and worms can wear shoes
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): better try a new mirror
[13:39] Kyra Neutron: so..ky shall be a worm
[13:39] Kyra Neutron: what a lag..
[13:39] Qwark Allen: had a shower to
[13:39] herman Bergson: yes..never been that bad for me...this lag
[13:39] Qwark Allen: when i got home had a nap
[13:40] Qwark Allen: ehheh sry
[13:40] herman Bergson smiles at Qwark
[13:40] Kiki Walpanheim: maybe if i don have consciousness/1st person feeling any more, i am no different than stones/plants,then i might not exist no more ...
[13:40] herman Bergson: You would be in coma then Kiki
[13:41] Mick Nerido: I sometimes don't recognize myself in a reflection if I am surprised by it, like in a window
[13:41] Kiki Walpanheim: i think therefore i am..lol
[13:41] Kiki Walpanheim: nods....but perhaps the consciousness is only small part of brain. the determinal part is the same as primates...its those primitives that define us...i dunno]
[13:43] herman Bergson: Well....I discussed in previous lectures our basic emotions and the fact that the idea that we are rational and by ratio controlled beings is a bit of a mistake
[13:43] Kiki Walpanheim: oh
[13:43] herman Bergson: to some extend we control our actions by our ratio...
[13:43] Cocoa Moonkill: mmm... may be we have some "symbols" that our brain uses to designate us as "I"
[13:43] herman Bergson: but that is just a part of our consciousness
[13:44] herman Bergson: Consciousness consists of inner, qualitative, subjective states and processes of sentience or awareness.
[13:44] Mick Nerido: Is there an evolutionary advantage to the "I" consciousness?
[13:44] herman Bergson: Consciousness, so defined, begins when we wake in the morning from a dreamlesssleep - and continues until we fall asleep again, die, go into a coma or otherwise become "unconscious."
[13:44] herman Bergson: .
[13:45] Kiki Walpanheim: nods
[13:45] herman Bergson: .
[13:45] herman Bergson: Well Mick.....I would say....look around and how we survive and live a social life...
[13:46] herman Bergson: An advantage????
[13:46] herman Bergson: SOme might even say that it is a danger for our planet and our survival
[13:47] herman Bergson: It is just how the brain works....
[13:47] Mick Nerido: We are a pack animal...
[13:47] Kyra Neutron: shakes her head..longs for the parfumed punk bee..that never works..what a lively dreamy planet...
[13:47] Kiki Walpanheim: to help to rationalize and guide your primitive to be more adaptive?
[13:47] herman Bergson: One advantage is for instance that we can cure the sick......animals just get ill and die
[13:48] Qwark Allen: we can cure them to
[13:48] herman Bergson: yes Qwark, they just cant cure themselves like a human being can
[13:49] Kyra Neutron: weird
[13:49] Kyra Neutron: that people started to cure themselves
[13:49] Qwark Allen: we wouldn`t be here, having this class, if we weren't conscious
[13:49] Kyra Neutron: by watching the nature healing itself..
[13:49] herman Bergson: Our brain makes us probably the most adaptive organisms on this planet
[13:49] Kiki Walpanheim: but the consciousness, rational brain part seems to be th only art nder our contol
[13:49] Qwark Allen: that is why we are so sucessfull here
[13:49] Kiki Walpanheim: other parts of body won listen to us
[13:50] Qwark Allen: probably not even that one
[13:50] Nitro Fireguard: why should we make a difference between the counsciousness of the world and the "I" consciousness?
[13:50] herman Bergson: yes Kiki...the idea that we have absolute control over ourselves seems to me to be a mistake....
[13:50] Mick Nerido: The placebo effect...
[13:50] Kiki Walpanheim: like ur stomach, intesine wont listen to u how thy work
[13:51] Nitro Fireguard: I personally include myself in the whole Universe *lol*
[13:51] Qwark Allen: +/-
[13:51] herman Bergson: I don't see a difference between the two Nitro
[13:51] herman Bergson: .
[13:51] Nitro Fireguard: yes I agree with that :)
[13:52] herman Bergson: Ok...next lecture I'll try to show you that the Cartesian dualism has been a historic mistake...
[13:52] Kiki Walpanheim: but consciousness is also biological, so there is o free wil right ok another big question i philo;p
[13:52] Kiki Walpanheim: TY professor
[13:52] Qwark Allen: there is no free will
[13:53] herman Bergson: We'll get to that Qwark.....
[13:53] Qwark Allen: we have been allready there a litle herman
[13:53] herman Bergson: We have a long road ahead of us... :-)
[13:53] Qwark Allen: that is nice
[13:53] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:53] Qwark Allen: was really interesting as usual herman
[13:53] Qwark Allen: missed classes for sure
[13:53] herman Bergson: Thank you Qwark....
[13:54] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
[13:54] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes i am I'm Sorry! missing tuesdays
[[13:54] Mick Nerido: Thanks great class!
[13:54] herman Bergson: Thank you all for your creative participation....
[13:54] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman and class!! see u soon:-) i must go
[13:54] herman Bergson: class dismissed :-)
[13:54] Qwark Allen: HooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo !!!!!!
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: Thank you Herman :-)
[13:54] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:54] Cocoa Moonkill: thank you for the lecture
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: bye everyone :)
[13:54] Kiki Walpanheim: see you later
[13:54] Kiki Walpanheim: ty
[13:54] herman Bergson: Bye Ciska
[13:55] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): thank you and bye till next time
[13:55] Nitro Fireguard: Thank you so much
[13:55] Nitro Fireguard: see you next time
[13:55] herman Bergson: My pleasure Nitro
[13:55] Nitro Fireguard smiles
[13:55] herman Bergson: You're always welcome
[13:55] Nitro Fireguard: Bye :)
[13:55] Kyra Neutron: by goldie..
[13:56] Cocoa Moonkill: goodbye
[13:57] Kyra Neutron: it could be taken..and no copy...idk if you need this one back
[13:57] herman Bergson: no no.... :-)
[13:57] herman Bergson: it is my own work
[13:58] Kyra Neutron: oks :)
[13:58] Kyra Neutron: so i has a naked picture of hermans avi in invo
[13:58] Kyra Neutron: lovely
[13:58] Kyra Neutron: good night gentlemen
[13:58] herman Bergson smiles
[13:58] Mick Nerido: Thanks professor
[13:59] herman Bergson: yw Mick :-)
[14:01] herman Bergson: Hi Jerome
[14:02] Jerome Ronzales: Hi herman!
[14:02] herman Bergson: class is over...unfortunately
[14:03] Jerome Ronzales: yep, i thought so
[14:03] Jerome Ronzales: the fact that i keep trying splitting my self in several others is kind of difficult…
[14:04] Jerome Ronzales: althought its kinda entertaining..
[14:04] Jerome Ronzales: know what i mean?
[14:06] herman Bergson: yes I know....too many options :-)

324: The Philosopher against the Brain

When I started the series of lectures on basic emotions, interpreted from an evolutionary biological perspective, I said in lecture 306:

"It is a mistake, but it is a generally accepted view through history: the human being controls himself by use of his ratio, his actions are based on reasonable considerations, and his behavior is based on knowledge, analysis and synthesis."

The basic emotions show that our behavior is controlled by a lot more than our overestimated rationality.

As I told you before, we are now in the frontline of neurobiological developments and the philosophical discourse related to those events.

Ludwig John (someone who attended our class) directed my attention to a german URL, which was an interview with Alexander Braidt on his book "Bewußtsein. Der Abgrund zwischen Mensch und Tier" (Consciousness: the Abyss between man and animal)

The subtitle is exciting in the sense that it refers exactly to what my next lectures will be about:

Zur unverstandenen Sonderstellung des menschlichen Gehirns. Eine Streitschrift zum Menschenbild der jüngeren Hirnforschung bei Roth, Singer und Co.

Translation: About the misunderstood special position of the human brain. A pamphlet against the concept of man in recent brain research by Roth, Singer and Co.

I could not find further information on Alexander Braidt except that he is the author of the book, I mentioned. Interesting however is, that he is one who questions the neuroscientists.

And that is exactly what I also was planning to do. In an interview Alexander Braidt said, in line with what I already said in lecture 306, but he adds a few interesting ideas:

he reacts to the mistake I mentioned earlier: the idea that the human being with his rationality should be regarded as almost positioned above nature, but also to the views of the neuroscientists on man.

"So there are good reasons to warn against a special position of man. Only the established brain research pours in this case the baby out with the bath water:

that man is from the animal kingdom, does not exclude absolutely that evolution has brought with it a radically new quality, which transcends pure biology.

Already the formation of the first molecular chains of elementary atoms introduced radically new properties, which transcended the the purely physical.

Take for example atoms that organize "all of a sudden" in an evolutionary process into H2O/water.

And a special arrangement and organization of certain long chain molecules into a DNA brought forth revolutionary features like replication and metabolism , which were considered impossible of the individual molecules.

Inorganic materials thence developed the radical new feature of life.

With some justification, one could say that the current brain research tries to cover up its long-term failure regarding the peculiar phenomenon of consciousness and with it the special position of mankind;

it degrades his ego and his so-called free will to pure illusion and consciousness to an epiphenomenon. Brain research has so far failed to discriminate between specific contents of consciousness of perception, attention (e.g. a tree, dog, etc.) and the pure, general condition of awareness."

Braidt argues in fact that like atoms, that organized into molecules, these molecules, that constitute our braincells, have organized into something that transcends pure biology: consciousness.

There still is so much to say now, but we'll have to address that in new lectures, but what is for sure: our battle between the philosopher and the brain has begun.

source:
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/34/34648/1.html


The Discussion

[13:25] herman Bergson: Thank you... :-)
[13:26] herman Bergson: If you have any question or remark..the floor is yours ^_^
[13:27] Doodus Moose: we can almost draw a line from atoms to organic molecules, but from molecules to consciousness?????
[13:27] Mick Nerido: It is quite amazing that matter can be able to evolve into conscious life forms
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: interesting
[13:27] herman Bergson: yes Doodus...that is the fascinating philosophical problem we gonna tackle :-)
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: and kind of amazing
[13:28] Kyra Neutron: so...none of you believes that..first..there as conciousness
[13:28] Kyra Neutron: ?
[13:28] herman Bergson: That is the problem Mick....
[13:28] herman Bergson: mattter into consciousness...we have no clue at all how to understand that
[13:28] Kyra Neutron: you truly can place yourself coming from inorganic mollecules?P
[13:29] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:29] Doodus Moose: organic molecules exhibit (as we say in computers) determinism - but consciousness does not
[13:29] herman Bergson: Yes Kyra I see no problem there...
[13:29] Kyra Neutron: herman
[13:29] Kyra Neutron: wood is wood
[13:29] Mick Nerido: we are organic
[13:29] Kyra Neutron: yes..and
[13:30] Kyra Neutron: what hocus pocus
[13:30] Kyra Neutron: created organic?
[13:30] herman Bergson: what we cant understand doesn't mean that it yet happened...and in evolution ..it happened
[13:30] Kyra Neutron: how the protons and quarks turned into this dna and rna?
[13:30] Mick Nerido: We are carbon based life forms
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: also another thing
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: plants are also alive but are they conscious
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: a tree or a flower
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: i dont think so
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: yes bejita
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: they are part of the consiousness too
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: plants
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: and they can understand death
[13:31] herman Bergson: HOLD ON!
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: fear
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: love
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: but
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: still
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: as we do
[13:31] herman Bergson: Hold on....!
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:31] Mick Nerido: Plants have light and gravity sensing tropisms
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: hmm cause they seem to feel well when the environment is right
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: but they have no brain, seems just a bunch of independent cells
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: a good point
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: gravity
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: dont know
[13:32] herman Bergson: It will be our goal to understand the concept of consciousness in the nexrt lectures...
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: we are a bunch of
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: independent cells either
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: you and me
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: is no better than a cucumber
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:33] herman Bergson: Hold on agian...:-)
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: but for ex a tree have no such thing as a brain have no mind
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: can a tree feel?
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: we are all part of this great breathing gravity
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:33] Mick Nerido: That we are conscious is self evident how is the question
[13:33] herman Bergson: What is the focus of this discussion..what are we debating?
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: in some way i think it can
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: with the independent cells
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: but is it aware of its surroundings
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: ah yes
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: sorry herman
[13:34] herman Bergson: What it is all about today is that the neuroscientists have no clue what consciousness is...
[13:34] Kyra Neutron: but a crystal remains as a crystal..and..there is still not a good explanation for the dna ...entereing the scene
[13:34] Mick Nerido: The more complex the brain the more it will be aware and possibly conscious
[13:34] herman Bergson: and we have to figure out WHAT it is...
[13:35] herman Bergson: philosophically :-)
[13:35] Kyra Neutron: so first..conciousness...next..
[13:35] Kyra Neutron: shadows
[13:35] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:35] Doodus Moose:
[13:35] herman Bergson: Might be true Kyra...
[13:36] herman Bergson: But even if w edont understand consciousness....
[13:36] herman Bergson: I'd like to explain to you WHY we dont understand it....
[13:37] Kyra Neutron: yes pls
[13:37] herman Bergson: In the interview was anther remarkable question....
[13:37] herman Bergson: Was something like....
[13:38] herman Bergson: What politicla goals are persued by this neurobiological approach of man?
[13:38] herman Bergson: Everyone is inclined to beleiv ethat science is science....not that science is politics...
[13:39] Mick Nerido: I don't think we yet have words for what conciousness is...
[13:39] Kyra Neutron: ...we don't need english letters to know it
[13:39] herman Bergson: We gonna work n that Mick...
[13:39] Kyra Neutron: close your eyes..and see...
[13:39] Kyra Neutron: :p
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: to be aware of yourself and your surroundings i d say
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: and to be able to feel
[13:40] herman Bergson: .
[13:40] Mick Nerido: But we need a language for true communication about it
[13:40] Kyra Neutron: idk
[13:40] Kyra Neutron: a synestesic can find the correct words for it?
[13:41] Kyra Neutron: yeti believe they see it easier...
[13:41] herman Bergson: Well Mick..that is was Paula Churchland claims...in het book Neurophilosophy
[13:41] Kyra Neutron: lowers eyes...sorry herman..i stay silent :p
[13:42] herman Bergson: Like in the Middle Ages we had a language which explained nature using terms of whitchcraft and magic...
[13:43] Mick Nerido: Naming a thing makes it more real and understandable
[13:43] herman Bergson: today...we don't use these terms at all anymore...we use the language of physics
[13:43] Kyra Neutron: a "thing"
[13:43] Kyra Neutron: that you can touch
[13:43] Kyra Neutron: smell
[13:43] Kyra Neutron: see
[13:43] Kyra Neutron: hear
[13:43] Kyra Neutron: makes it easire to definable by mind
[13:43] herman Bergson: yes. Kyra...
[13:44] herman Bergson: Magic as explanaion has just ceased to exist...like witches
[13:44] Kyra Neutron: a name which doesnt have any connection via our senses...
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: magic by definition is to defy all laws of nature
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: wich is impossible to do
[13:45] herman Bergson: yes Bejiita...
[13:45] Kyra Neutron: it was pleasure to mess the class again
[13:45] Kyra Neutron: hopefully see you next time
[13:45] Kyra Neutron: nite nite
[13:45] herman Bergson smiles at Kyra
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: cu Kyra
[13:46] herman Bergson: Ok...I guess you wait for the nexr round..:-)
[13:46] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:46] herman Bergson: who will win...the philosopher or the neuroscientist..?
[13:46] herman Bergson: If I have to bet....???
[13:47] herman Bergson: I'd put my money on herman Bersgon ^_^
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:48] herman Bergson: OK...
[13:48] herman Bergson: It is up to me to win my own bet then ^_^
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:48] Doodus Moose: (is curious about the odds in the bet)
[13:48] Ciska Riverstone: thank you herman
[13:49] herman Bergson: Nice thought Doodus....^_^
[13:49] Mick Nerido: So you bet on the philosopher?
[13:49] herman Bergson: I do Mick!
[13:49] Zinzi Serevi: thanks Herman, till next class, bye all..:)
[13:49] Mick Nerido: Me too
[13:50] Doodus Moose: bye Zinzi
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: interesting for sure
[13:50] Doodus Moose: bye all!!!!!!
[13:50] Mick Nerido: Thanks
[13:50] herman Bergson: Thank you Zinzi..:-)
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: bye Doodus
[13:50] Ortwin Sveiss: thanks for this last minute
[13:50] herman Bergson: Time to dismiss class
[13:50] Mick Nerido: , your best lecture to date imo
[13:50] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman...it was very interersting;)))
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: I think both have right but in their own ways but who have the most right
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: interesting
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:51] herman Bergson: We'll see Bejiita...we'll see :-)
[13:51] Bejiita Imako: but raw science is maybee not the best thing always
[13:51] Bejiita Imako: a combination of both things make best I think
[13:51] Bejiita Imako: science and philosophy
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: cause both have right in their special ways i think
[13:52] herman Bergson: Betrand Russell said that when we can answer a question...the question moves from philosophy to science...
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: yes science is raw facts about what is proven
[13:53] herman Bergson: yes...as far as we understand reality now...
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:53] Ciska Riverstone: yes its in a permanent flow
[13:54] herman Bergson: yes Ciska...
[13:54] Ciska Riverstone: and the speed grows.
[13:55] herman Bergson: We just appraoch reality forma pragmatic point of view...
[13:55] herman Bergson: science is that what works...
[13:55] Ciska Riverstone: well what else can we do ;)
[13:55] herman Bergson: ok...true
[13:55] herman Bergson: we need to survive...
[13:55] herman Bergson: so to be pragmatic is maybe the best strategy
[13:56] herman Bergson: interesting thought...:-)
[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: maybe its the only one
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: ;)
[13:56] herman Bergson: especially from an evolutionary point of view
[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: yes
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: anyway have a good evening folks
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: cu thursday
[13:57] Bejiita Imako: aaa cu ㋡
[13:57] Bejiita Imako: ㋡

320: The Brain and [ moral ] Disgust

Let's have a closer look at disgust today. We can make a distinction between the real, initial core of disgust and the more social form, that evolved from it.

The primary form of disgust relates to spoiled food and all kinds of secretions of the body. It is again an emotion that orchestrates a series of behaviors.

When we see something disgusting, and I'll save you the examples, we show a specific facial expression, we feel nausea or even vomit. A clear response of the organism on a threatening situation.

Most important is that we want to keep it as far as possible away from our selves, especially from our mouth.

Paul Rozin,who I mentioned in the previous lecture, did a nice experiment. He offered people chocolate. They refused to eat it. Why ????

The chocolate was in the shape of a realistic looking dog turd. When our ancestors did find something that looked like feces, then it were droppings, not chocolate, so let's disgust.

Your dog has a complete different opinion. When you take the fellow out, you have to stop at least every 50 paces, because our Fido needs to study the droppings or pee of a comrade with utmost accuracy.

In the previous lecture I suggested the question whether disgust is typical human or not. Animals dislike and avoid certain tastes too, but is that a genuine disgust response?

An important part of the human disgust reaction is the notion of contamination, a complex cognitive evaluation. We are very sensitive to it.

Suppose I show you a glass of lemonade and dip a fat spider in it. I have informed you that the spider was sterilised. Then I offer you the glass.

99% percent chance that you refuse to drink it. The drink is contaminated and thence disgusting. This doesn’t happen among animals, nor in children under 5 to 7 years of age.

Contamination is a strong effect. Paul Rozin did an experiment in which the test persons had to spit in their own glass of Cola. After that they refused to drink it.

This contamination effect is often used in politics. There is a famous Nazi propaganda movie about jews - next shot you see rats crawling - then a group of orthodox jews again - the rats again.

To qualify your opponent as trash, cockroach or rat is an effective way to mobilize the mob against a specific group in society. Disgust as a means to mobilize the mob.

It is amazing that we still love French kisses: yuk….body fluids touching each other! However, we could say, that kissing always has been an evolutionary advantage.

Husband and wife exchange their bacteria with love, which stimulates the immune system of the mother, so the baby is immune for the bacteria of mama and daddy both.

And isn't it true that parents never feel disgust, when sweet little Tommy decorates mamma's dress with his vomit, or daddy has the honor to change a well done diaper?

I could go on and on with all kinds of example of disgust, primary disgust and disgust also shaped by culture.

But the most important evolution of disgust is, that this response is no longer restricted to spoiled food and our excrements, but also to moral situations.

In this we are unique. When we ask people what they find the most disgusting, they barely will mention the objects of primary disgust like feces or spoiled food.

They will refer to the latest events mentioned in the news: the child abuse by priests, rape, a horrible murder or bonuses for bankers and unlimited enrichment.

I wonder. Has this basic emotion been the primary power in evolution to teach the homo sapiens ethics?


The Discussion

[2011/04/19 13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you... :-)
[2011/04/19 13:21] herman Bergson: Feel free to take the floor ...
[2011/04/19 13:22] herman Bergson: if you have any remark or question
[2011/04/19 13:22] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): i think disgust is for our own protection..to keep our body healthy
[2011/04/19 13:22] Zen (zen.arado): so disgust started as evolutionarily advantageous?
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Beerthje that was the primary goal
[2011/04/19 13:23] Bejiita Imako: primairly I think so too
[2011/04/19 13:23] Zen (zen.arado): to protect us
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Zen
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: Biologically interesting...
[2011/04/19 13:23] Zen (zen.arado): or it worked out that way I should say
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: but now we also have amoral disgust...
[2011/04/19 13:23] Zinzi Serevi: so when we had no disgust we would have less ethics?
[2011/04/19 13:24] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): homo sapiens ethics would indicate a mystical scroll of proper behavior
[2011/04/19 13:24] Zen (zen.arado): if you didn't feel disgust you would eat things that would kill you
[2011/04/19 13:24] herman Bergson: No Zinzi..then we would have been extinct because of diseases
[2011/04/19 13:24] Doodus Moose: it almost seems as though we should have another word (or term) for moral & learned disgust
[2011/04/19 13:24] Bejiita Imako: I have a big such ones with swedish electrical companies like Vattenfall, the bosses behave bad and get the sack but still cause it stand in the papers
[2011/04/19 13:24] Bejiita Imako: they get 100s of millions
[2011/04/19 13:24] Bejiita Imako: that we pay on our electrical bills
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: manu families had to move out this winter cause they couldn't afford the bills to heat their homes
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: cause had to pay the bosses fat bonuses
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: grrr thats horrible
[2011/04/19 13:25] herman Bergson: Let's stick to the subject Bejiita...
[2011/04/19 13:25] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): could it be that disgust over a specified behavior coutl only be self reinforcemnt as to theri chosen belief system?
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: thats a big moral disgust for me
[2011/04/19 13:26] herman Bergson: I understand...and I share it with you
[2011/04/19 13:26] Bejiita Imako: but don't know if i feel disgust really, i more get angry
[2011/04/19 13:26] Zen (zen.arado): wonders if it is valid to say it is the same disgust in the moral case. We could say it is revulsion, antipathy, dislike?
[2011/04/19 13:26] Bejiita Imako: disgust i feel mostly with well spoiled food and yucky unhealthy unfresh stuff
[2011/04/19 13:26] Zinzi Serevi: why disgust and not love ?
[2011/04/19 13:26] Zen (zen.arado): but disgust expresses it more strongly
[2011/04/19 13:27] Zinzi Serevi: or other strong feelings
[2011/04/19 13:27] druth Vlodovic: is physical and moral disgust the same reaction physiologically?
[2011/04/19 13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Druth...that is an important point
[2011/04/19 13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): it is interesting the mention of children under 7 years old not being disgusted
[2011/04/19 13:28] herman Bergson: Moral disgust also has the same physiological effect....a slowing down of the heart beat rate
[2011/04/19 13:28] Bejiita Imako: hmm maybe some for me, but for moral things i more feel anger and think " don't these people have morale, know how to behave"
[2011/04/19 13:28] herman Bergson: Yes aristotle....
[2011/04/19 13:28] Jerome Ronzales: existe a questio da salubridade, seja fisica o psicologica, ambas fedem...
[2011/04/19 13:28] herman Bergson: Some use it as an argument against its evolutionary origine...
[2011/04/19 13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): taht would indicate a nurtured response to some degree
[2011/04/19 13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): a combinating ot the two
[2011/04/19 13:29] herman Bergson: yes indeed....but also may indicate that the emotion needs time to grow in the organism
[2011/04/19 13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): to be exposed to the the revulsion?
[2011/04/19 13:29] druth Vlodovic: I think there are different reactions to different types of moral breach, for instance you're angry at energy company bosses, but you might be disgusted by a homosexual (if you're against it)
[2011/04/19 13:30] herman Bergson: Yes indeed Druth....that is the right distinction
[2011/04/19 13:30] Bejiita Imako: something like that i guess
[2011/04/19 13:30] Zen (zen.arado): disgust in the moral case could be evolutionarily beneficial too....disgust at moral breaches can be detrimental to societies..
[2011/04/19 13:31] herman Bergson: Oh yes....
[2011/04/19 13:31] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): homo phobis is very interesting as to its origins, and our understanding of it via primally and cerebrally
[2011/04/19 13:31] Jerome Ronzales: errr
[2011/04/19 13:31] herman Bergson: brute murders..child abuse...name it...they all threaten the safety of the group
[2011/04/19 13:32] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): and therefore you have to feel disgust
[2011/04/19 13:32] herman Bergson: You dont have to Siggi..you just feel it..automatically
[2011/04/19 13:32] Bejiita Imako: yes
[2011/04/19 13:33] herman Bergson: The main feature of basic emotions is that they are not controlled by our ratio..
[2011/04/19 13:33] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): not automatically - Ghadafi does not feel it automatically
[2011/04/19 13:33] Bejiita Imako: no its a basic instinctual drive
[2011/04/19 13:33] Bejiita Imako: i guess
[2011/04/19 13:33] herman Bergson: Oh yes Siggi...Gadafi feels fear
[2011/04/19 13:34] herman Bergson: even before he evaluates his political position
[2011/04/19 13:34] druth Vlodovic: they can be trained that effort, but often an old prejudice will surface if faced with an unexpected event
[2011/04/19 13:34] Bejiita Imako: i hope they shot that bastard soon , have killed sooo many innocent people that wants freedom
[2011/04/19 13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but allowing those destructive emotions to come to fruition is a cerebral failure
[2011/04/19 13:34] Bejiita Imako: ghadaffi make me both angry and disgusted
[2011/04/19 13:34] Bejiita Imako: what a swine he is!
[2011/04/19 13:35] herman Bergson: let's focus on the subject..:-)
[2011/04/19 13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the ratio should keep our primal selves in check
[2011/04/19 13:35] herman Bergson: what destructive emotions, Aristotle?
[2011/04/19 13:36] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): all those negative aspects of our humanity, murder, rape , theft etc
[2011/04/19 13:36] herman Bergson: As I said atthe very beginning.....the ratio is en overestimated quality in man
[2011/04/19 13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): still, I believe that humans must use rationality to control our primitive urges
[2011/04/19 13:37] herman Bergson: When you study the history of philosophy...it looks as if mankind moved from one station to the next rational station...
[2011/04/19 13:37] herman Bergson: Oh yes Arsitotle...
[2011/04/19 13:37] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): and then returned to the beginning
[2011/04/19 13:37] herman Bergson: at the very end of evolution..it was our rationality that made us survive as homo sapiens...
[2011/04/19 13:38] Zen (zen.arado): our 'primitive' urges might be wiser than our rationality :)
[2011/04/19 13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and that the gift of rationality is only a empty box when we are born
[2011/04/19 13:38] herman Bergson: otherwise we were just another chimpansee colony now, I guess..
[2011/04/19 13:38] Bejiita Imako: yes, something like that
[2011/04/19 13:38] Doodus Moose: rationality versus love? don't we sometimes choose to survive for the sake of our children?
[2011/04/19 13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): it is contributed to as we live
[2011/04/19 13:38] herman Bergson: Well..it would have been more benificial for planet earth maybe ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:39] herman Bergson: next lecture I'll tell you about John Gray..British philosopher...completely in line with my project..
[2011/04/19 13:39] druth Vlodovic: we can use our rationality to make our emotions into tools to help us
[2011/04/19 13:39] Zen (zen.arado): you mentioned the disgust reaction being manipulated to fool our rationality Herman
[2011/04/19 13:40] herman Bergson: to some extend Druth
[2011/04/19 13:40] herman Bergson: Yes Zen....standard method to mobilize the mob
[2011/04/19 13:40] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): passion is a most wonderful thing, the sweet fruit of life, untethered it can be a nighmare for us and others
[2011/04/19 13:41] herman Bergson: Call your opponent some disgusting being...rat, wurm, slime, shit...and the mob is willing to hit on him
[2011/04/19 13:41] druth Vlodovic: it is often better to direct and channel our passions, then to deny them
[2011/04/19 13:41] Zen (zen.arado): rationality untempered by feeling can be a monster too I think
[2011/04/19 13:41] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I can tell you Herman that in perparation for war, soldiers are routinely done the same way
[2011/04/19 13:42] herman Bergson: rationality as such doesn't exist...
[2011/04/19 13:42] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the enemy must be a vile creature
[2011/04/19 13:42] herman Bergson: nor feeling as such...
[2011/04/19 13:42] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): so you can kill him
[2011/04/19 13:42] herman Bergson: the brain is a constant battlefield between priorities
[2011/04/19 13:43] Zen (zen.arado): yeh emotions and reason are intertwined some say now
[2011/04/19 13:43] Zinzi Serevi: till next time, :) thanks Herman
[2011/04/19 13:43] herman Bergson: Bye Zinzi
[2011/04/19 13:43] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): we teach our soldiers to hate, to me that is disgusting
[2011/04/19 13:43] Bejiita Imako: bye Zinzi
[2011/04/19 13:43] Zen (zen.arado): bye zin
[2011/04/19 13:44] herman Bergson: They need to regard their adversary disgusting Aristotle
[2011/04/19 13:44] druth Vlodovic: but rationality is controlled, to an extent, consciously
[2011/04/19 13:44] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes :(
[2011/04/19 13:44] Zen (zen.arado): but the original motivation is from emotions
[2011/04/19 13:44] druth Vlodovic: doesn't that make it distinct?
[2011/04/19 13:44] herman Bergson: Wait.....
[2011/04/19 13:44] Zen (zen.arado): we want something and justify it rationally
[2011/04/19 13:44] herman Bergson: an interesting remark of Druth....
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: rationality is controlled consciously.....
[2011/04/19 13:45] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): LOL, go to a fire and brimstone religious revival and you will see the manipulation of emotions at work
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: this brings about a hell of a lot of philosophical questions...
[2011/04/19 13:45] Zen (zen.arado): agree Ari :)
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: rationality..some autonomous machine....
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: consciousness...some controler…
[2011/04/19 13:46] herman Bergson: We will face all these questions soon...:-)
[2011/04/19 13:46] herman Bergson: Just such a statement shows how complex the issue is
[2011/04/19 13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): :) you raise so many tittelating things to think about Herman :)
[2011/04/19 13:47] herman Bergson smiles
[2011/04/19 13:47] herman Bergson: there is still so much in store Aristotle....
[2011/04/19 13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the origins of this disgust just blossoms in my mind
[2011/04/19 13:47] herman Bergson: What we are doing now is just loking at the world from a given point of view...
[2011/04/19 13:48] Zen (zen.arado): titillation =opposite of disgust ? :)
.
.
. poof…….!
.
.
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: Herman crashed
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: back in a flash
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: wb Herman
[2011/04/19 13:50] Beertje Beaumont: welcome back
[2011/04/19 13:50] Jerome Ronzales: holly macarrony
[2011/04/19 13:50] Ciska Riverstone: wb Herman
[2011/04/19 13:50] Bejiita Imako: hehe wb,
[2011/04/19 13:50] herman Bergson: Oh I HATE THIS....
[2011/04/19 13:50] Bejiita Imako: that was fast indeed
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: yes amazingly
[2011/04/19 13:50] Zen Arado: disgusted herman? :)
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL
[2011/04/19 13:51] AristotleVon Doobie: SL is disgusting sometimes
[2011/04/19 13:51] herman Bergson: Yes Zen !!!! INDEED ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:51] Bejiita Imako: good that, i often have to wait several minutes when i crash cause "region logging u out now please try again in a few mins"
[2011/04/19 13:51] Zen Arado: yes me too
[2011/04/19 13:51] Bejiita Imako: and then when i get back in im naked and a girl and cant use my invent without loading the test avatar first
[2011/04/19 13:52] Bejiita Imako: happens now and then
[2011/04/19 13:52] Bejiita Imako: frustrating
[2011/04/19 13:52] herman Bergson: Yes Bekiita...if there is one disgusting thing in SL then it is such a crash ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:52] Bejiita Imako: yes
[2011/04/19 13:53] Bejiita Imako: esp when u are already late to some event say this class and want to get in as soon as possible
[2011/04/19 13:53] herman Bergson: We are lucky that is is almost time to dismiss class ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL, don't you just love being Ruthed
[2011/04/19 13:53] Zen Arado: we are diluting the power of the word
[2011/04/19 13:53] Ludwig John: now I have to log out from sl and to log in to my bed - good night and bye
[2011/04/19 13:53] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[2011/04/19 13:53] Bejiita Imako: ok night Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: goodnight Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] Zen Arado: bye Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] herman Bergson: thank you all for your participation....
[2011/04/19 13:53] Doodus Moose: take care, Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] Beertje Beaumont: goodnight Siggy
[2011/04/19 13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ...^_^
[2011/04/19 13:54] Bejiita Imako: well was interesting stuff again Herman
[2011/04/19 13:54] Bejiita Imako: gave me some stuff again to think about
[2011/04/19 13:54] Zen Arado: thanks Herman
[2011/04/19 13:54] druth Vlodovic: thank you herman
[2011/04/19 13:54] AristotleVon Doobie: Thank you Professor :)
[2011/04/19 13:54] Doodus Moose: thanks everyone, and you Professor
[2011/04/19 13:54] herman Bergson: My pleasure doodus
[2011/04/19 13:54] herman Bergson: We'll talk later, Doodus
[2011/04/19 13:54] Bejiita Imako: cu soon
[2011/04/19 13:54] Doodus Moose: till then, BYEEEEE!!!!!
[2011/04/19 13:55] Bejiita Imako: bye
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: as always, I leave with my mind in contemplation, Herman
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: thanks
[2011/04/19 13:56] herman Bergson: Drive carefully Aristotle...
[2011/04/19 13:56] herman Bergson: Keep your eyes on the road ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: good bey everyone
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: indeed
[2011/04/19 13:57] Bilthor Esharham: Good bye everyone
[2011/04/19 13:57] herman Bergson: `Bye Bilthor
[2011/04/19 13:57] Jerome Ronzales: good-bye
[2011/04/19 13:57] herman Bergson: Adios jerome :-)
[2011/04/19 13:57] Bilthor Esharham: have safe paths and fare winds and honey sweet dreams
[2011/04/19 13:57] Jerome Ronzales: hasta prof.
[2011/04/19 13:58] Bilthor Esharham: ::))
[2011/04/19 13:58] Bilthor Esharham: Namarie
[2011/04/19 13:58] herman Bergson: hasta la proxima jerome :-)
[2011/04/19 13:58] Jerome Ronzales: we can talk spanish but my main language is portuguese
[2011/04/19 13:59] Jerome Ronzales: european portuguese
[2011/04/19 13:59] herman Bergson: oh dear...Portuguese...too much for me...:-)
[2011/04/19 13:59] Jerome Ronzales: yep, its not easy
[2011/04/19 13:59] herman Bergson: oh yes...way more difficult than spanish
[2011/04/19 13:59] herman Bergson: at least for me
[2011/04/19 14:00] Jerome Ronzales: i find spanish funny to talk...lots of different words
[2011/04/19 14:00] Jerome Ronzales: but hey, i love languages
[2011/04/19 14:01] druth Vlodovic: bye guys
[2011/04/19 14:01] herman Bergson: i love Spanish because I had 6 years of classic latin education...
[2011/04/19 14:01] herman Bergson: Bye Druth...
[2011/04/19 14:01] Jerome Ronzales: ah, very well
[2011/04/19 14:01] Zen Arado: bye everyone :)
[2011/04/19 14:01] herman Bergson: Bye Zen ..
[2011/04/19 14:02] Jerome Ronzales: ciao
[2011/04/19 14:02] Jerome Ronzales: :-)
[2011/04/19 14:02] LadyJayne Resident frowns....."I missed class...sorry Herman"

319: The Brain, a Motivation and Disgust

I think, that today is a good moment to repeat my basic assumptions in this project "The Mystery of the Brain". Not the mind but the brain. I formulated the title so deliberately.

The basic assumptions are, that there exists only one thing: matter. The brain, which generates the mind, does not generate an immaterial something, called "the mind".

The mind is somehow a feature of the brain like liquidity is a feature of water. Thus the brain is the cause of our "Supersense", which we discussed in the beginning.

We have seen a number of neurobiological discoveries and insights regarding the functioning of the brain. The present subject, the basic emotions of the homo sapiens, focus on the fact, that he a biological being.

This means that he is the result of evolution and as a species possesses general features, that you will find with any individual of the species.

Most important to understand is, that the presence on this planet of the homo sapiens as we know it today, is in relation to 5 million years of evolution, still a pretty short period and do you think that we are the end of evolution?

A second issue to keep in mind is, that the homo sapiens is inclined to believe, that its essence is defined by describing itself as a rational being.

Our focus on the basic emotions, which helped the species through the evolutionary process, is one way to show, that this Self is a bit unbalanced. The ratio is just a part of our Self and we really can question the fact that it is our dominant feature.

These are all not absolute facts, but my basic assumptions, my picture of the homo sapiens and its existence. I have proposed to assume the "truth" of these assumptions only for a pragmatic reason.

It offers the opportunity to paint a specific picture, which we definitely will scrutinize with a magnifying glass in the near future, when we'll ask the real philosophical questions about what we see in the painting.

But before we do that there are still some interesting subjects to discuss regarding our brain activity. In this case the emotion of disgust.

In the previous lecture I said "as far as we know, you only find this emotion in the repertoire of the homo sapiens", but I have discovered other sources.

The name connected with the emotion of disgust is Paul Rozin (born 1936). He is a psychology professor at the University of Pennsylvania. His current work focuses on the psychological, cultural, and biological determinants of human food choice.

In an article in PENN Arts & Science, fall1997, we read this:
"Disgust evolves culturally," explains Rozin, "and develops from a system to protect the body from harm to a system to protect the soul from harm."

At its root, disgust is a revulsion response -- "a basic biological motivational system" -- that Darwin associated with the sense of taste. Its function is to reject or discharge offensive-tasting food from the mouth (and/or the stomach),

and its fundamental indicator, the "gape" or tongue extension, has been observed in a number of animals, including birds and mammals. In humans, the characteristic facial expressions of disgust that coincide with gaping include nose wrinkling and raising the upper lip,

behaviors usually accompanied by a feeling of nausea and a general sense of revulsion. Together these behaviors and sensations facilitate the rejection of food that has been put into the mouth.
(http://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/fall97/rozin.html)

This may sound a bit confusing, as is said that eventually disgust evolved into "a system to protect the soul from harm." Animals certainly haven't a soul as is meant here.

But here we must make a clear distinction between a primary form of disgust, which solely has to do with spoiled food and -but this is questionable - with faces and other "products" of the human body,

because it is quite well possible that we can interpret these as examples of the secondary form of disgust: disgust shaped and influenced by culture. Next lecture I'll dig into the disgusting details, which will elucidate this distinction.

You don't need to come then…. ^_^


The Discussion

[13:20] herman Bergson: Thank you ...
[13:20] Doodus Moose: ... when disgust will be discussed :-)
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:20] BALDUR Joubert: grin you had a cat herman.. its facial expression is quite significvant when she is disgusted... don't need a p
[13:20] herman Bergson: Well it is an amazing emotion....
[13:20] BALDUR Joubert: psychologist to find out
[13:21] BALDUR Joubert: so.. its much older than homo sapiens in evolution
[13:21] herman Bergson: Next lecture will be disgusting fun ^_^
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: well i guess all things that look taste and smell bad produce this feeling
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: also a very interesting thing
[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur…
[13:21] BALDUR Joubert: yes..but why ?
[13:22] herman Bergson: Tell me...
[13:22] BALDUR Joubert: may i ask you a question herman...
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: almost everything that decompose contain sulphur components and those in general smell very bad
[13:22] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): is it to protect our body agains spoiled food?
[13:22] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i think he meant feces not faces
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: and what make us think that different things smell in just that way
[13:22] herman Bergson: yes Beertje..that is the basic issue
[13:22] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): making a show of disgust other that the repulsion of tainted food seems to be tantimonious to me
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but is it a feeling or an expression ari
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: when you say evolution and homo sapiens
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: for me homo s. is the result of an evolution
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: guess that sulphur components smell bad have evolved into our senses cause stuff that decompose contain them and this is not good to eat
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: a warning indicator
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: result
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: sort of
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i get a feeling of disgust at certain statements
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): like certain channels on the tv when i am watching the news
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: take h2 s for ex
[13:23] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I suspect it is different from theprimal urge and more an expression of disapproval
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: which happened through australopectis ..steinheim etc
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: this is the stuff that rotten eggs produce
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma....that is an important observation!
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: H2S
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: how themselves were products of evolution
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur......what is your point?
[13:24] herman Bergson: Hi Zinzi
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: so if homo sapiens is the result..changes are not evolutionary ..but development-- just like muscles develop so does the brain
[13:24] Zinzi Serevi: hello..:)
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: I guess if good things instead produced these components we might have been wired to feel a good smell from ex H"S and such things
[13:25] BALDUR Joubert: smile i have finished:)
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: a theory
[13:25] herman Bergson: That is the point Bejiita...I don't think so...
[13:25] herman Bergson: unless disgust is 100% culturally determined
[13:26] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I think disgust at it's core is innate evolution, the rest has to be nurtured development
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: if it were 100% cultural animals won't show disgust
[13:26] herman Bergson: It seems to be a biological feature of the organism...an animal or a homo sapiens
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: cause its otherwise weird cause why does EVERYTHING that is bad produce this smelly stuff otherwise or have nature made it that way by itself so we shouldnt eat it
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: the production of this stuff
[13:27] Doodus Moose: or perhaps we've evolved to recognize something as "smelly" - when it might not be so bad to something else
[13:27] Doodus Moose: (dogs, and what they do, for example)
[13:27] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): how do we explain limburger cheese?
[13:27] herman Bergson: well..keep in mind there are two things...
[13:27] BALDUR Joubert: has to do with survival i think.. learn not to eat what can harm you:)
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: ex rotten eggs shit compost ect
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i love it
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: is bad for u and therefor smell bad
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: 1000 year eggs are delicatessen in china
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): limburger?????
[13:28] herman Bergson: horrible smell Gemma!!!!!!!
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but so so tasty
[13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but a lot of people love it
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: smells like foot sweat EEEEEEEEEWWW
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes me
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes and I'll discuss that in the next lecture ^_^
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:28] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) nods...
[13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yum
[13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): lol
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: also we have something here in sweden called surströmming ( lit sour herring)
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: basically rotten fish
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: limbutger in a train you can empty a compartment in no time and find a place to sit
[13:29] herman Bergson: JUST HOLD ON FOR A MINUTE>>>
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: fermented
[13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ;p;
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: stink like hell i think
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: lot of people love it
[13:29] herman Bergson: PLZ....
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: i wouldnt touch the stuff
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: eeeew
[13:29] herman Bergson: I HAVE A QUESTION...^_^
[13:29] herman Bergson: Gemma...
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: lets listen...
[13:30] herman Bergson: How do you know "Limburger"
[13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i am a very cosmopolitan eater
[13:30] herman Bergson: Here it is called rommedoeke...
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: by going to limburg lol
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:30] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): well, the basis of bad smelling food being disgusting is not universal was my points not
[13:30] herman Bergson: let her answer Baldur...
[13:30] Zinzi Serevi: yes a rommedoeke! :)
[13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): universal tastes
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: yes to some degree it seems
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: my mom ex loves this "surströmming"
[13:31] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): like 'nonnevotte?'
[13:31] herman Bergson: Where did you tatsed Limburger Gemma?????
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): lots of times
[13:31] herman Bergson: ?????
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): we have very good cheese shops in connecticut
[13:31] herman Bergson: Been in the area???
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): import cheeses
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): from all over the world
[13:31] Zinzi Serevi: wow
[13:31] herman Bergson: Wow.....lol...so cool
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: but its general name is limburger right?
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:32] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): even Limburgse kaas??
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: thats also how i know the stuff
[13:32] herman Bergson: AMAZING!!!!!!
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i do not go get it every week
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): once in a few years i have it somewhere
[13:32] herman Bergson: And this only because we are discussing Disgust...
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:32] herman Bergson: that cheese smells so awfull..
[13:32] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): you're whole fridge wil smell bad...
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i can get past the smell
[13:33] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I believe also it is a cultural thing as to what food odores are offensive
[13:33] herman Bergson: yes Gemma!
[13:33] Ciska Riverstone: yes ARistotle
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): my brain says it still tastes good
[13:33] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): .me nods
[13:33] herman Bergson: Oh Yes Aristotle....
[13:33] Zinzi Serevi: we can learn to eat
[13:33] BALDUR Joubert: culture is full of weird things
[13:33] herman Bergson: We'll discuss that next time!
[13:33] BALDUR Joubert: thoughts
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i have friends who cannot stand the smell of garlic!!!!
[13:33] Doodus Moose: :-/
[13:33] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): thye eat a decaye fish sauce in south east asie robusly that made me ill to smell it
[13:34] herman Bergson: LOVE IT!!!
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): asia*
[13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:34] herman Bergson: The more th ebetter
[13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: sounds like our surströmming
[13:34] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): oh i lóve fish sauce
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: hm..how about the saying when with some one ..i can't smellhim/her?
[13:34] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): Noc Mam/
[13:34] Zinzi Serevi: trassi
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: never tasted that later stuff from asia, doesn't seem to tasty for my taste however
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: but othervise I love asian food
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it is usually texture that repulses me
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): not smell
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): like sweet breads
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): phooey\
[13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and something innately disgusting besides bad food is offensive body odor
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well....I guess this lecture didn't end up disgusting at all ^_^
[13:35] BALDUR Joubert: beertje.. you from a seaside country..go live in the alps:)
[13:35] herman Bergson: Shall we exchange recipes?
[13:35] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): why should i?
[13:36] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) laughs
[13:36] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): getting hungry as a matter of fact
[13:36] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but I tink that is a protective impluse
[13:36] Jerome Ronzales: greetings \o_
[13:36] BALDUR Joubert: seafood could disgust you ...
[13:36] herman Bergson: lol YEs me too...
[13:36] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) nods
[13:36] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): not at all Baldur
[13:36] herman Bergson: Well...I think we'll wait for the next lecture then...
[13:36] herman Bergson: It will kil your appetite ^_^
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: smile..cause you didn't grow up there..
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hmm one thing that is a bit disgusting wen raw but otherwise really tasty is fiish
[13:37] Zinzi Serevi: ol
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: ok trout is ok for us
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: cause when raw extract some horribly smelling compound
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): great then I will fix me a limburgere and sardine sandwich
[13:37] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): Is it really a matter of culture or a matter of taste or does culture dictate your taste?
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: put some straberry on your sandwich ari
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Melody, I know that I love my mothers cooking above all else
[13:38] herman Bergson: house
[13:38] Zinzi Serevi: culture dictates your taste
[13:38] herman Bergson: Ok , my friends...
[13:38] BALDUR Joubert: lady..of coure its culture ..in a wider sense
[13:38] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): I think culture then does dictate your taste to a degree...but then again my whole family may like something that still I find to be disgusting...then it is a matter of my taste
[13:38] Jerome Ronzales: i love tricks
[13:38] herman Bergson: since we have ended up in the cuisine..I think it is time to leave for th ephilosopher..
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): :)) Thanks you Professor
[13:38] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): also depends if your taste buds like sweet or savory
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i love savory
[13:39] herman Bergson: thank you all for your participation...it was great..
[13:39] Zinzi Serevi: thanks Herman
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: lol what is the philosopher cooking:)
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I like most all foods
[13:39] Ciska Riverstone: Thank you Herman
[13:39] herman Bergson: Class dismissed... ^_^
[13:39] Zinzi Serevi: lol
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: interesting once again ㋡
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): would rather have another pizza piece and no dessert
[13:39] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) blushes...."sorry I was late, had to pick up the teenager"
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: nened to get some pan pizza later
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, substance before desserts Gemma, me too
[13:39] herman Bergson: This was really a fun discussion :-)
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:39] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): i'll go and eat a 'haring'
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: haha yes
[13:39] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): Sounds liek I missed a great class...lol
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yum yes
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: viva italia gemma .. the origing of culture...
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: not a "sour herringt" i hope
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): more a cooking class
[13:40] Ciska Riverstone: enjoy it Beertje ;)
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: loool
[13:40] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): lol
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: i love herring beertje:)
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): me too
[13:40] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): a RAW herring Bejiita
[13:40] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): with unions
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): pickled??
[13:40] Zinzi Serevi: i will go and eat some drop
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: especially after a longh nicht with many drinks:)
[13:40] herman Bergson: YES..Beertje!
[13:40] Zinzi Serevi: see you all..:)
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): zenzi
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ok cu
[13:40] Ciska Riverstone: Cu Zinzi
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:41] Ciska Riverstone: bye everyone :)
[13:41] herman Bergson: Bye Zinzi
[13:41] Doodus Moose: be good Zinzi
[13:41] Doodus Moose: byeeee Ciska