320: The Brain and [ moral ] Disgust

Let's have a closer look at disgust today. We can make a distinction between the real, initial core of disgust and the more social form, that evolved from it.

The primary form of disgust relates to spoiled food and all kinds of secretions of the body. It is again an emotion that orchestrates a series of behaviors.

When we see something disgusting, and I'll save you the examples, we show a specific facial expression, we feel nausea or even vomit. A clear response of the organism on a threatening situation.

Most important is that we want to keep it as far as possible away from our selves, especially from our mouth.

Paul Rozin,who I mentioned in the previous lecture, did a nice experiment. He offered people chocolate. They refused to eat it. Why ????

The chocolate was in the shape of a realistic looking dog turd. When our ancestors did find something that looked like feces, then it were droppings, not chocolate, so let's disgust.

Your dog has a complete different opinion. When you take the fellow out, you have to stop at least every 50 paces, because our Fido needs to study the droppings or pee of a comrade with utmost accuracy.

In the previous lecture I suggested the question whether disgust is typical human or not. Animals dislike and avoid certain tastes too, but is that a genuine disgust response?

An important part of the human disgust reaction is the notion of contamination, a complex cognitive evaluation. We are very sensitive to it.

Suppose I show you a glass of lemonade and dip a fat spider in it. I have informed you that the spider was sterilised. Then I offer you the glass.

99% percent chance that you refuse to drink it. The drink is contaminated and thence disgusting. This doesn’t happen among animals, nor in children under 5 to 7 years of age.

Contamination is a strong effect. Paul Rozin did an experiment in which the test persons had to spit in their own glass of Cola. After that they refused to drink it.

This contamination effect is often used in politics. There is a famous Nazi propaganda movie about jews - next shot you see rats crawling - then a group of orthodox jews again - the rats again.

To qualify your opponent as trash, cockroach or rat is an effective way to mobilize the mob against a specific group in society. Disgust as a means to mobilize the mob.

It is amazing that we still love French kisses: yuk….body fluids touching each other! However, we could say, that kissing always has been an evolutionary advantage.

Husband and wife exchange their bacteria with love, which stimulates the immune system of the mother, so the baby is immune for the bacteria of mama and daddy both.

And isn't it true that parents never feel disgust, when sweet little Tommy decorates mamma's dress with his vomit, or daddy has the honor to change a well done diaper?

I could go on and on with all kinds of example of disgust, primary disgust and disgust also shaped by culture.

But the most important evolution of disgust is, that this response is no longer restricted to spoiled food and our excrements, but also to moral situations.

In this we are unique. When we ask people what they find the most disgusting, they barely will mention the objects of primary disgust like feces or spoiled food.

They will refer to the latest events mentioned in the news: the child abuse by priests, rape, a horrible murder or bonuses for bankers and unlimited enrichment.

I wonder. Has this basic emotion been the primary power in evolution to teach the homo sapiens ethics?


The Discussion

[2011/04/19 13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you... :-)
[2011/04/19 13:21] herman Bergson: Feel free to take the floor ...
[2011/04/19 13:22] herman Bergson: if you have any remark or question
[2011/04/19 13:22] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): i think disgust is for our own protection..to keep our body healthy
[2011/04/19 13:22] Zen (zen.arado): so disgust started as evolutionarily advantageous?
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Beerthje that was the primary goal
[2011/04/19 13:23] Bejiita Imako: primairly I think so too
[2011/04/19 13:23] Zen (zen.arado): to protect us
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Zen
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: Biologically interesting...
[2011/04/19 13:23] Zen (zen.arado): or it worked out that way I should say
[2011/04/19 13:23] herman Bergson: but now we also have amoral disgust...
[2011/04/19 13:23] Zinzi Serevi: so when we had no disgust we would have less ethics?
[2011/04/19 13:24] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): homo sapiens ethics would indicate a mystical scroll of proper behavior
[2011/04/19 13:24] Zen (zen.arado): if you didn't feel disgust you would eat things that would kill you
[2011/04/19 13:24] herman Bergson: No Zinzi..then we would have been extinct because of diseases
[2011/04/19 13:24] Doodus Moose: it almost seems as though we should have another word (or term) for moral & learned disgust
[2011/04/19 13:24] Bejiita Imako: I have a big such ones with swedish electrical companies like Vattenfall, the bosses behave bad and get the sack but still cause it stand in the papers
[2011/04/19 13:24] Bejiita Imako: they get 100s of millions
[2011/04/19 13:24] Bejiita Imako: that we pay on our electrical bills
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: manu families had to move out this winter cause they couldn't afford the bills to heat their homes
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: cause had to pay the bosses fat bonuses
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: grrr thats horrible
[2011/04/19 13:25] herman Bergson: Let's stick to the subject Bejiita...
[2011/04/19 13:25] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): could it be that disgust over a specified behavior coutl only be self reinforcemnt as to theri chosen belief system?
[2011/04/19 13:25] Bejiita Imako: thats a big moral disgust for me
[2011/04/19 13:26] herman Bergson: I understand...and I share it with you
[2011/04/19 13:26] Bejiita Imako: but don't know if i feel disgust really, i more get angry
[2011/04/19 13:26] Zen (zen.arado): wonders if it is valid to say it is the same disgust in the moral case. We could say it is revulsion, antipathy, dislike?
[2011/04/19 13:26] Bejiita Imako: disgust i feel mostly with well spoiled food and yucky unhealthy unfresh stuff
[2011/04/19 13:26] Zinzi Serevi: why disgust and not love ?
[2011/04/19 13:26] Zen (zen.arado): but disgust expresses it more strongly
[2011/04/19 13:27] Zinzi Serevi: or other strong feelings
[2011/04/19 13:27] druth Vlodovic: is physical and moral disgust the same reaction physiologically?
[2011/04/19 13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Druth...that is an important point
[2011/04/19 13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): it is interesting the mention of children under 7 years old not being disgusted
[2011/04/19 13:28] herman Bergson: Moral disgust also has the same physiological effect....a slowing down of the heart beat rate
[2011/04/19 13:28] Bejiita Imako: hmm maybe some for me, but for moral things i more feel anger and think " don't these people have morale, know how to behave"
[2011/04/19 13:28] herman Bergson: Yes aristotle....
[2011/04/19 13:28] Jerome Ronzales: existe a questio da salubridade, seja fisica o psicologica, ambas fedem...
[2011/04/19 13:28] herman Bergson: Some use it as an argument against its evolutionary origine...
[2011/04/19 13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): taht would indicate a nurtured response to some degree
[2011/04/19 13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): a combinating ot the two
[2011/04/19 13:29] herman Bergson: yes indeed....but also may indicate that the emotion needs time to grow in the organism
[2011/04/19 13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): to be exposed to the the revulsion?
[2011/04/19 13:29] druth Vlodovic: I think there are different reactions to different types of moral breach, for instance you're angry at energy company bosses, but you might be disgusted by a homosexual (if you're against it)
[2011/04/19 13:30] herman Bergson: Yes indeed Druth....that is the right distinction
[2011/04/19 13:30] Bejiita Imako: something like that i guess
[2011/04/19 13:30] Zen (zen.arado): disgust in the moral case could be evolutionarily beneficial too....disgust at moral breaches can be detrimental to societies..
[2011/04/19 13:31] herman Bergson: Oh yes....
[2011/04/19 13:31] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): homo phobis is very interesting as to its origins, and our understanding of it via primally and cerebrally
[2011/04/19 13:31] Jerome Ronzales: errr
[2011/04/19 13:31] herman Bergson: brute murders..child abuse...name it...they all threaten the safety of the group
[2011/04/19 13:32] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): and therefore you have to feel disgust
[2011/04/19 13:32] herman Bergson: You dont have to Siggi..you just feel it..automatically
[2011/04/19 13:32] Bejiita Imako: yes
[2011/04/19 13:33] herman Bergson: The main feature of basic emotions is that they are not controlled by our ratio..
[2011/04/19 13:33] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): not automatically - Ghadafi does not feel it automatically
[2011/04/19 13:33] Bejiita Imako: no its a basic instinctual drive
[2011/04/19 13:33] Bejiita Imako: i guess
[2011/04/19 13:33] herman Bergson: Oh yes Siggi...Gadafi feels fear
[2011/04/19 13:34] herman Bergson: even before he evaluates his political position
[2011/04/19 13:34] druth Vlodovic: they can be trained that effort, but often an old prejudice will surface if faced with an unexpected event
[2011/04/19 13:34] Bejiita Imako: i hope they shot that bastard soon , have killed sooo many innocent people that wants freedom
[2011/04/19 13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but allowing those destructive emotions to come to fruition is a cerebral failure
[2011/04/19 13:34] Bejiita Imako: ghadaffi make me both angry and disgusted
[2011/04/19 13:34] Bejiita Imako: what a swine he is!
[2011/04/19 13:35] herman Bergson: let's focus on the subject..:-)
[2011/04/19 13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the ratio should keep our primal selves in check
[2011/04/19 13:35] herman Bergson: what destructive emotions, Aristotle?
[2011/04/19 13:36] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): all those negative aspects of our humanity, murder, rape , theft etc
[2011/04/19 13:36] herman Bergson: As I said atthe very beginning.....the ratio is en overestimated quality in man
[2011/04/19 13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): still, I believe that humans must use rationality to control our primitive urges
[2011/04/19 13:37] herman Bergson: When you study the history of philosophy...it looks as if mankind moved from one station to the next rational station...
[2011/04/19 13:37] herman Bergson: Oh yes Arsitotle...
[2011/04/19 13:37] Siggi Ludwig (ludwig.john): and then returned to the beginning
[2011/04/19 13:37] herman Bergson: at the very end of evolution..it was our rationality that made us survive as homo sapiens...
[2011/04/19 13:38] Zen (zen.arado): our 'primitive' urges might be wiser than our rationality :)
[2011/04/19 13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and that the gift of rationality is only a empty box when we are born
[2011/04/19 13:38] herman Bergson: otherwise we were just another chimpansee colony now, I guess..
[2011/04/19 13:38] Bejiita Imako: yes, something like that
[2011/04/19 13:38] Doodus Moose: rationality versus love? don't we sometimes choose to survive for the sake of our children?
[2011/04/19 13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): it is contributed to as we live
[2011/04/19 13:38] herman Bergson: Well..it would have been more benificial for planet earth maybe ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:39] herman Bergson: next lecture I'll tell you about John Gray..British philosopher...completely in line with my project..
[2011/04/19 13:39] druth Vlodovic: we can use our rationality to make our emotions into tools to help us
[2011/04/19 13:39] Zen (zen.arado): you mentioned the disgust reaction being manipulated to fool our rationality Herman
[2011/04/19 13:40] herman Bergson: to some extend Druth
[2011/04/19 13:40] herman Bergson: Yes Zen....standard method to mobilize the mob
[2011/04/19 13:40] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): passion is a most wonderful thing, the sweet fruit of life, untethered it can be a nighmare for us and others
[2011/04/19 13:41] herman Bergson: Call your opponent some disgusting being...rat, wurm, slime, shit...and the mob is willing to hit on him
[2011/04/19 13:41] druth Vlodovic: it is often better to direct and channel our passions, then to deny them
[2011/04/19 13:41] Zen (zen.arado): rationality untempered by feeling can be a monster too I think
[2011/04/19 13:41] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I can tell you Herman that in perparation for war, soldiers are routinely done the same way
[2011/04/19 13:42] herman Bergson: rationality as such doesn't exist...
[2011/04/19 13:42] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the enemy must be a vile creature
[2011/04/19 13:42] herman Bergson: nor feeling as such...
[2011/04/19 13:42] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): so you can kill him
[2011/04/19 13:42] herman Bergson: the brain is a constant battlefield between priorities
[2011/04/19 13:43] Zen (zen.arado): yeh emotions and reason are intertwined some say now
[2011/04/19 13:43] Zinzi Serevi: till next time, :) thanks Herman
[2011/04/19 13:43] herman Bergson: Bye Zinzi
[2011/04/19 13:43] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): we teach our soldiers to hate, to me that is disgusting
[2011/04/19 13:43] Bejiita Imako: bye Zinzi
[2011/04/19 13:43] Zen (zen.arado): bye zin
[2011/04/19 13:44] herman Bergson: They need to regard their adversary disgusting Aristotle
[2011/04/19 13:44] druth Vlodovic: but rationality is controlled, to an extent, consciously
[2011/04/19 13:44] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes :(
[2011/04/19 13:44] Zen (zen.arado): but the original motivation is from emotions
[2011/04/19 13:44] druth Vlodovic: doesn't that make it distinct?
[2011/04/19 13:44] herman Bergson: Wait.....
[2011/04/19 13:44] Zen (zen.arado): we want something and justify it rationally
[2011/04/19 13:44] herman Bergson: an interesting remark of Druth....
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: rationality is controlled consciously.....
[2011/04/19 13:45] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): LOL, go to a fire and brimstone religious revival and you will see the manipulation of emotions at work
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: this brings about a hell of a lot of philosophical questions...
[2011/04/19 13:45] Zen (zen.arado): agree Ari :)
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: rationality..some autonomous machine....
[2011/04/19 13:45] herman Bergson: consciousness...some controler…
[2011/04/19 13:46] herman Bergson: We will face all these questions soon...:-)
[2011/04/19 13:46] herman Bergson: Just such a statement shows how complex the issue is
[2011/04/19 13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): :) you raise so many tittelating things to think about Herman :)
[2011/04/19 13:47] herman Bergson smiles
[2011/04/19 13:47] herman Bergson: there is still so much in store Aristotle....
[2011/04/19 13:47] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): the origins of this disgust just blossoms in my mind
[2011/04/19 13:47] herman Bergson: What we are doing now is just loking at the world from a given point of view...
[2011/04/19 13:48] Zen (zen.arado): titillation =opposite of disgust ? :)
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[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: Herman crashed
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: back in a flash
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: wb Herman
[2011/04/19 13:50] Beertje Beaumont: welcome back
[2011/04/19 13:50] Jerome Ronzales: holly macarrony
[2011/04/19 13:50] Ciska Riverstone: wb Herman
[2011/04/19 13:50] Bejiita Imako: hehe wb,
[2011/04/19 13:50] herman Bergson: Oh I HATE THIS....
[2011/04/19 13:50] Bejiita Imako: that was fast indeed
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: yes amazingly
[2011/04/19 13:50] Zen Arado: disgusted herman? :)
[2011/04/19 13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL
[2011/04/19 13:51] AristotleVon Doobie: SL is disgusting sometimes
[2011/04/19 13:51] herman Bergson: Yes Zen !!!! INDEED ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:51] Bejiita Imako: good that, i often have to wait several minutes when i crash cause "region logging u out now please try again in a few mins"
[2011/04/19 13:51] Zen Arado: yes me too
[2011/04/19 13:51] Bejiita Imako: and then when i get back in im naked and a girl and cant use my invent without loading the test avatar first
[2011/04/19 13:52] Bejiita Imako: happens now and then
[2011/04/19 13:52] Bejiita Imako: frustrating
[2011/04/19 13:52] herman Bergson: Yes Bekiita...if there is one disgusting thing in SL then it is such a crash ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:52] Bejiita Imako: yes
[2011/04/19 13:53] Bejiita Imako: esp when u are already late to some event say this class and want to get in as soon as possible
[2011/04/19 13:53] herman Bergson: We are lucky that is is almost time to dismiss class ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL, don't you just love being Ruthed
[2011/04/19 13:53] Zen Arado: we are diluting the power of the word
[2011/04/19 13:53] Ludwig John: now I have to log out from sl and to log in to my bed - good night and bye
[2011/04/19 13:53] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[2011/04/19 13:53] Bejiita Imako: ok night Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: goodnight Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] Zen Arado: bye Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] herman Bergson: thank you all for your participation....
[2011/04/19 13:53] Doodus Moose: take care, Siggi
[2011/04/19 13:53] Beertje Beaumont: goodnight Siggy
[2011/04/19 13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ...^_^
[2011/04/19 13:54] Bejiita Imako: well was interesting stuff again Herman
[2011/04/19 13:54] Bejiita Imako: gave me some stuff again to think about
[2011/04/19 13:54] Zen Arado: thanks Herman
[2011/04/19 13:54] druth Vlodovic: thank you herman
[2011/04/19 13:54] AristotleVon Doobie: Thank you Professor :)
[2011/04/19 13:54] Doodus Moose: thanks everyone, and you Professor
[2011/04/19 13:54] herman Bergson: My pleasure doodus
[2011/04/19 13:54] herman Bergson: We'll talk later, Doodus
[2011/04/19 13:54] Bejiita Imako: cu soon
[2011/04/19 13:54] Doodus Moose: till then, BYEEEEE!!!!!
[2011/04/19 13:55] Bejiita Imako: bye
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: as always, I leave with my mind in contemplation, Herman
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: thanks
[2011/04/19 13:56] herman Bergson: Drive carefully Aristotle...
[2011/04/19 13:56] herman Bergson: Keep your eyes on the road ^_^
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: good bey everyone
[2011/04/19 13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: indeed
[2011/04/19 13:57] Bilthor Esharham: Good bye everyone
[2011/04/19 13:57] herman Bergson: `Bye Bilthor
[2011/04/19 13:57] Jerome Ronzales: good-bye
[2011/04/19 13:57] herman Bergson: Adios jerome :-)
[2011/04/19 13:57] Bilthor Esharham: have safe paths and fare winds and honey sweet dreams
[2011/04/19 13:57] Jerome Ronzales: hasta prof.
[2011/04/19 13:58] Bilthor Esharham: ::))
[2011/04/19 13:58] Bilthor Esharham: Namarie
[2011/04/19 13:58] herman Bergson: hasta la proxima jerome :-)
[2011/04/19 13:58] Jerome Ronzales: we can talk spanish but my main language is portuguese
[2011/04/19 13:59] Jerome Ronzales: european portuguese
[2011/04/19 13:59] herman Bergson: oh dear...Portuguese...too much for me...:-)
[2011/04/19 13:59] Jerome Ronzales: yep, its not easy
[2011/04/19 13:59] herman Bergson: oh yes...way more difficult than spanish
[2011/04/19 13:59] herman Bergson: at least for me
[2011/04/19 14:00] Jerome Ronzales: i find spanish funny to talk...lots of different words
[2011/04/19 14:00] Jerome Ronzales: but hey, i love languages
[2011/04/19 14:01] druth Vlodovic: bye guys
[2011/04/19 14:01] herman Bergson: i love Spanish because I had 6 years of classic latin education...
[2011/04/19 14:01] herman Bergson: Bye Druth...
[2011/04/19 14:01] Jerome Ronzales: ah, very well
[2011/04/19 14:01] Zen Arado: bye everyone :)
[2011/04/19 14:01] herman Bergson: Bye Zen ..
[2011/04/19 14:02] Jerome Ronzales: ciao
[2011/04/19 14:02] Jerome Ronzales: :-)
[2011/04/19 14:02] LadyJayne Resident frowns....."I missed class...sorry Herman"

319: The Brain, a Motivation and Disgust

I think, that today is a good moment to repeat my basic assumptions in this project "The Mystery of the Brain". Not the mind but the brain. I formulated the title so deliberately.

The basic assumptions are, that there exists only one thing: matter. The brain, which generates the mind, does not generate an immaterial something, called "the mind".

The mind is somehow a feature of the brain like liquidity is a feature of water. Thus the brain is the cause of our "Supersense", which we discussed in the beginning.

We have seen a number of neurobiological discoveries and insights regarding the functioning of the brain. The present subject, the basic emotions of the homo sapiens, focus on the fact, that he a biological being.

This means that he is the result of evolution and as a species possesses general features, that you will find with any individual of the species.

Most important to understand is, that the presence on this planet of the homo sapiens as we know it today, is in relation to 5 million years of evolution, still a pretty short period and do you think that we are the end of evolution?

A second issue to keep in mind is, that the homo sapiens is inclined to believe, that its essence is defined by describing itself as a rational being.

Our focus on the basic emotions, which helped the species through the evolutionary process, is one way to show, that this Self is a bit unbalanced. The ratio is just a part of our Self and we really can question the fact that it is our dominant feature.

These are all not absolute facts, but my basic assumptions, my picture of the homo sapiens and its existence. I have proposed to assume the "truth" of these assumptions only for a pragmatic reason.

It offers the opportunity to paint a specific picture, which we definitely will scrutinize with a magnifying glass in the near future, when we'll ask the real philosophical questions about what we see in the painting.

But before we do that there are still some interesting subjects to discuss regarding our brain activity. In this case the emotion of disgust.

In the previous lecture I said "as far as we know, you only find this emotion in the repertoire of the homo sapiens", but I have discovered other sources.

The name connected with the emotion of disgust is Paul Rozin (born 1936). He is a psychology professor at the University of Pennsylvania. His current work focuses on the psychological, cultural, and biological determinants of human food choice.

In an article in PENN Arts & Science, fall1997, we read this:
"Disgust evolves culturally," explains Rozin, "and develops from a system to protect the body from harm to a system to protect the soul from harm."

At its root, disgust is a revulsion response -- "a basic biological motivational system" -- that Darwin associated with the sense of taste. Its function is to reject or discharge offensive-tasting food from the mouth (and/or the stomach),

and its fundamental indicator, the "gape" or tongue extension, has been observed in a number of animals, including birds and mammals. In humans, the characteristic facial expressions of disgust that coincide with gaping include nose wrinkling and raising the upper lip,

behaviors usually accompanied by a feeling of nausea and a general sense of revulsion. Together these behaviors and sensations facilitate the rejection of food that has been put into the mouth.
(http://www.sas.upenn.edu/sasalum/newsltr/fall97/rozin.html)

This may sound a bit confusing, as is said that eventually disgust evolved into "a system to protect the soul from harm." Animals certainly haven't a soul as is meant here.

But here we must make a clear distinction between a primary form of disgust, which solely has to do with spoiled food and -but this is questionable - with faces and other "products" of the human body,

because it is quite well possible that we can interpret these as examples of the secondary form of disgust: disgust shaped and influenced by culture. Next lecture I'll dig into the disgusting details, which will elucidate this distinction.

You don't need to come then…. ^_^


The Discussion

[13:20] herman Bergson: Thank you ...
[13:20] Doodus Moose: ... when disgust will be discussed :-)
[13:20] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:20] BALDUR Joubert: grin you had a cat herman.. its facial expression is quite significvant when she is disgusted... don't need a p
[13:20] herman Bergson: Well it is an amazing emotion....
[13:20] BALDUR Joubert: psychologist to find out
[13:21] BALDUR Joubert: so.. its much older than homo sapiens in evolution
[13:21] herman Bergson: Next lecture will be disgusting fun ^_^
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: well i guess all things that look taste and smell bad produce this feeling
[13:21] Bejiita Imako: also a very interesting thing
[13:21] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur…
[13:21] BALDUR Joubert: yes..but why ?
[13:22] herman Bergson: Tell me...
[13:22] BALDUR Joubert: may i ask you a question herman...
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: almost everything that decompose contain sulphur components and those in general smell very bad
[13:22] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): is it to protect our body agains spoiled food?
[13:22] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i think he meant feces not faces
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: and what make us think that different things smell in just that way
[13:22] herman Bergson: yes Beertje..that is the basic issue
[13:22] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): making a show of disgust other that the repulsion of tainted food seems to be tantimonious to me
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but is it a feeling or an expression ari
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: when you say evolution and homo sapiens
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: for me homo s. is the result of an evolution
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: guess that sulphur components smell bad have evolved into our senses cause stuff that decompose contain them and this is not good to eat
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: a warning indicator
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: result
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: sort of
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i get a feeling of disgust at certain statements
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): like certain channels on the tv when i am watching the news
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: take h2 s for ex
[13:23] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I suspect it is different from theprimal urge and more an expression of disapproval
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: which happened through australopectis ..steinheim etc
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: this is the stuff that rotten eggs produce
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma....that is an important observation!
[13:23] Bejiita Imako: H2S
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: how themselves were products of evolution
[13:24] herman Bergson: Yes Baldur......what is your point?
[13:24] herman Bergson: Hi Zinzi
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: so if homo sapiens is the result..changes are not evolutionary ..but development-- just like muscles develop so does the brain
[13:24] Zinzi Serevi: hello..:)
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: I guess if good things instead produced these components we might have been wired to feel a good smell from ex H"S and such things
[13:25] BALDUR Joubert: smile i have finished:)
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: a theory
[13:25] herman Bergson: That is the point Bejiita...I don't think so...
[13:25] herman Bergson: unless disgust is 100% culturally determined
[13:26] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I think disgust at it's core is innate evolution, the rest has to be nurtured development
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: if it were 100% cultural animals won't show disgust
[13:26] herman Bergson: It seems to be a biological feature of the organism...an animal or a homo sapiens
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: cause its otherwise weird cause why does EVERYTHING that is bad produce this smelly stuff otherwise or have nature made it that way by itself so we shouldnt eat it
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: the production of this stuff
[13:27] Doodus Moose: or perhaps we've evolved to recognize something as "smelly" - when it might not be so bad to something else
[13:27] Doodus Moose: (dogs, and what they do, for example)
[13:27] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): how do we explain limburger cheese?
[13:27] herman Bergson: well..keep in mind there are two things...
[13:27] BALDUR Joubert: has to do with survival i think.. learn not to eat what can harm you:)
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: ex rotten eggs shit compost ect
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i love it
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: is bad for u and therefor smell bad
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: 1000 year eggs are delicatessen in china
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): limburger?????
[13:28] herman Bergson: horrible smell Gemma!!!!!!!
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but so so tasty
[13:28] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but a lot of people love it
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: smells like foot sweat EEEEEEEEEWWW
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes me
[13:28] herman Bergson: Yes and I'll discuss that in the next lecture ^_^
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:28] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) nods...
[13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yum
[13:29] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): lol
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: also we have something here in sweden called surströmming ( lit sour herring)
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: basically rotten fish
[13:29] BALDUR Joubert: limbutger in a train you can empty a compartment in no time and find a place to sit
[13:29] herman Bergson: JUST HOLD ON FOR A MINUTE>>>
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: fermented
[13:29] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ;p;
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: stink like hell i think
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: lot of people love it
[13:29] herman Bergson: PLZ....
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: i wouldnt touch the stuff
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: eeeew
[13:29] herman Bergson: I HAVE A QUESTION...^_^
[13:29] herman Bergson: Gemma...
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: lets listen...
[13:30] herman Bergson: How do you know "Limburger"
[13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i am a very cosmopolitan eater
[13:30] herman Bergson: Here it is called rommedoeke...
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: by going to limburg lol
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:30] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): well, the basis of bad smelling food being disgusting is not universal was my points not
[13:30] herman Bergson: let her answer Baldur...
[13:30] Zinzi Serevi: yes a rommedoeke! :)
[13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): universal tastes
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: yes to some degree it seems
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: my mom ex loves this "surströmming"
[13:31] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): like 'nonnevotte?'
[13:31] herman Bergson: Where did you tatsed Limburger Gemma?????
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): lots of times
[13:31] herman Bergson: ?????
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): we have very good cheese shops in connecticut
[13:31] herman Bergson: Been in the area???
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): import cheeses
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): from all over the world
[13:31] Zinzi Serevi: wow
[13:31] herman Bergson: Wow.....lol...so cool
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: but its general name is limburger right?
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:32] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): even Limburgse kaas??
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: thats also how i know the stuff
[13:32] herman Bergson: AMAZING!!!!!!
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i do not go get it every week
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): once in a few years i have it somewhere
[13:32] herman Bergson: And this only because we are discussing Disgust...
[13:32] Bejiita Imako: ok
[13:32] herman Bergson: that cheese smells so awfull..
[13:32] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): you're whole fridge wil smell bad...
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i can get past the smell
[13:33] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I believe also it is a cultural thing as to what food odores are offensive
[13:33] herman Bergson: yes Gemma!
[13:33] Ciska Riverstone: yes ARistotle
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): my brain says it still tastes good
[13:33] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): .me nods
[13:33] herman Bergson: Oh Yes Aristotle....
[13:33] Zinzi Serevi: we can learn to eat
[13:33] BALDUR Joubert: culture is full of weird things
[13:33] herman Bergson: We'll discuss that next time!
[13:33] BALDUR Joubert: thoughts
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i have friends who cannot stand the smell of garlic!!!!
[13:33] Doodus Moose: :-/
[13:33] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): thye eat a decaye fish sauce in south east asie robusly that made me ill to smell it
[13:34] herman Bergson: LOVE IT!!!
[13:34] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): asia*
[13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:34] herman Bergson: The more th ebetter
[13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: sounds like our surströmming
[13:34] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): oh i lóve fish sauce
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: hm..how about the saying when with some one ..i can't smellhim/her?
[13:34] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): Noc Mam/
[13:34] Zinzi Serevi: trassi
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: never tasted that later stuff from asia, doesn't seem to tasty for my taste however
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: but othervise I love asian food
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): it is usually texture that repulses me
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): not smell
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): like sweet breads
[13:35] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): phooey\
[13:35] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): and something innately disgusting besides bad food is offensive body odor
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well....I guess this lecture didn't end up disgusting at all ^_^
[13:35] BALDUR Joubert: beertje.. you from a seaside country..go live in the alps:)
[13:35] herman Bergson: Shall we exchange recipes?
[13:35] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): why should i?
[13:36] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) laughs
[13:36] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): getting hungry as a matter of fact
[13:36] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): but I tink that is a protective impluse
[13:36] Jerome Ronzales: greetings \o_
[13:36] BALDUR Joubert: seafood could disgust you ...
[13:36] herman Bergson: lol YEs me too...
[13:36] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) nods
[13:36] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): not at all Baldur
[13:36] herman Bergson: Well...I think we'll wait for the next lecture then...
[13:36] herman Bergson: It will kil your appetite ^_^
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: smile..cause you didn't grow up there..
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hmm one thing that is a bit disgusting wen raw but otherwise really tasty is fiish
[13:37] Zinzi Serevi: ol
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: ok trout is ok for us
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: cause when raw extract some horribly smelling compound
[13:37] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): great then I will fix me a limburgere and sardine sandwich
[13:37] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): Is it really a matter of culture or a matter of taste or does culture dictate your taste?
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: put some straberry on your sandwich ari
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): Melody, I know that I love my mothers cooking above all else
[13:38] herman Bergson: house
[13:38] Zinzi Serevi: culture dictates your taste
[13:38] herman Bergson: Ok , my friends...
[13:38] BALDUR Joubert: lady..of coure its culture ..in a wider sense
[13:38] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): I think culture then does dictate your taste to a degree...but then again my whole family may like something that still I find to be disgusting...then it is a matter of my taste
[13:38] Jerome Ronzales: i love tricks
[13:38] herman Bergson: since we have ended up in the cuisine..I think it is time to leave for th ephilosopher..
[13:38] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): :)) Thanks you Professor
[13:38] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): also depends if your taste buds like sweet or savory
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i love savory
[13:39] herman Bergson: thank you all for your participation...it was great..
[13:39] Zinzi Serevi: thanks Herman
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: lol what is the philosopher cooking:)
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): I like most all foods
[13:39] Ciska Riverstone: Thank you Herman
[13:39] herman Bergson: Class dismissed... ^_^
[13:39] Zinzi Serevi: lol
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: interesting once again ㋡
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): would rather have another pizza piece and no dessert
[13:39] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne) blushes...."sorry I was late, had to pick up the teenager"
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: nened to get some pan pizza later
[13:39] Aristotle von Doobie (aristotlevon.doobie): yes, substance before desserts Gemma, me too
[13:39] herman Bergson: This was really a fun discussion :-)
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:39] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): i'll go and eat a 'haring'
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: haha yes
[13:39] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): Sounds liek I missed a great class...lol
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yum yes
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: viva italia gemma .. the origing of culture...
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: not a "sour herringt" i hope
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): more a cooking class
[13:40] Ciska Riverstone: enjoy it Beertje ;)
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: loool
[13:40] Melody Jayne (ladyjayne): lol
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: i love herring beertje:)
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): me too
[13:40] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): a RAW herring Bejiita
[13:40] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): with unions
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): pickled??
[13:40] Zinzi Serevi: i will go and eat some drop
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: especially after a longh nicht with many drinks:)
[13:40] herman Bergson: YES..Beertje!
[13:40] Zinzi Serevi: see you all..:)
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): zenzi
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ok cu
[13:40] Ciska Riverstone: Cu Zinzi
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:41] Ciska Riverstone: bye everyone :)
[13:41] herman Bergson: Bye Zinzi
[13:41] Doodus Moose: be good Zinzi
[13:41] Doodus Moose: byeeee Ciska