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Maybe this is a good moment to check what we have achieved till now.The first issue is that my starting point is a absolute materialism. This means that only matter matters ^_^Of course we could start a serious debate on what "matter" is, but for the sake of our present discourse we could loosely define it as that what obeys the laws of nature, the laws of physics.What I don't do now is to discuss the question whether or not absolute materialism is a tenable ontology. For now I just assume that it is and that there are good arguments for. But again a complete different discussion from what we are focused on now.A second issue is that we regard the human being and thus his brain too as the result of tens of thousands of years of evolution. In this evolution of the brain, its development took its own course, which has resulted in the brain as it is now.A third issue is that we therefore conclude that the brain is the mind. That means that the activity of the brain generates that what we call our mind.A fourth issue is that we know that, as cognitive development psychology shows us, the mind goes through several cognitive stages. WIth regard of our present subject, the most interesting stage is around the age of 2 to 4, when animistic thinking emerges.Animistic thinking, or animism, is the mental act to ascribe human traits like intentions, thoughts and feelings to non human things. We see that happen in all kinds of variations.A fifth issue is that we have neurobiological proof that the brain is already wired to interact with and interpret the world around from the moment that we are born. Thus patting Immanual Kant on the shoulder.A six issue is that we have learnt, that our interaction with reality is driven by three belief-systems: science, religion and supernatural beliefs.Science I define as knowledge claims that can be tested on true or false. Supernatural beliefs are characterized by the fact that they defy the laws of nature and often can not be tested on true or false.If we hold something to be a supernatural belief and a test shows that it yet is true, then the supernatural belief shows to be a natural belief, that is, it is knowledge.The seventh and last issue is that we experience the mind as something different from the body. The body is material and the mind is not, as Descartes thought."We treat the mind and the body as separate because that is what we experience. I am controlling my body, but I am more than just my body. We sense that we exist independently of our bodies.", says Bruce Hood.Yet in brain research the Canadian brain surgeon Wilder Penfield pioneered operations on awake patients for treatment of epilepsy. I leave the details out, but by stimulating parts of the surface of the brian people experienced tastes, moving limbs, relived past experiences. Direct stimulation proved that mental life is a product of the physical brain.Our brain gives us the illusion that we live in our body. When you cut your finger you feel pain in your finger, but in fact there is nothing in your finger….your brain tells you where to look for physical damage. The pain is in the brain.When you take an aspirin because your back hurts, the chemicals of the aspirin go to your brain and block some neural transmitters. They never go to your back to ease the pain.Children of 6 or 7 believe that you don't need a brain to have a mind. And I think a lot of adults still believe this too. The mind is a thing of its own with its own life.This leads to the supersense belief that we will continue to exist after our death. It leads to the belief that the evil mind of the criminal is still there in the house where he killed so many young girlsI will leave it to that for the moment. Things get pretty complicated now. We'll leave these complications for the philosophical chapters which still have to come in this project and the next lecture.The Discussion[13:21] herman Bergson: thank you :-)[13:21] herman Bergson: If you have any question or remark..plz feel free[13:21] AristotleVon Doobie: Issue #6 would indicate that supernaturalness evaportes if it can be proven and moves to then scientific realm[13:22] herman Bergson: yes Aristotle...[13:22] Gemma Cleanslate: very good aristotle[13:22] Bejiita Imako: ah ok[13:22] Bejiita Imako: yes[13:22] herman Bergson: If we can prove that the mind has telekinetic power...it becomes a matter of scientific research to find out how it works[13:23] Bejiita Imako: then its not supernatural anymore[13:23] Alaya Kumaki: is telekinetic include telepathy?[13:23] Bejiita Imako: then its fact[13:23] Alarice Beaumont: yes.. no longer supernatural[13:23] herman Bergson: There is research on such matters but nothing conclusive[13:23] Gemma Cleanslate: lots of experiments going on about that yes[13:23] AristotleVon Doobie: so then, was the supersense merely curiosity about life?[13:23] herman Bergson: No Alarice...[13:23] Alarice Beaumont: no?[13:24] herman Bergson: It is our survival tool to make sense of what doesn't make sense to us..[13:24] Alarice Beaumont: but if proven.. it became "normal"[13:24] herman Bergson: sorry Alarice..should have said Yes .:-)[13:24] AristotleVon Doobie: I believe that....to remove the fear of not knowing[13:24] herman Bergson: yes Aristotle..[13:24] herman Bergson: What happens when you die for instance...[13:25] AristotleVon Doobie: or diminish it at least[13:25] herman Bergson: a serious question for many of us[13:25] Alarice Beaumont: yes... better not think about it Herman[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: all of us into some[13:25] Alarice Beaumont: questin ..if one has a soul[13:26] AristotleVon Doobie: and there are those who would offer scientific proof of its extistance....'seeing the light'[13:26] herman Bergson: Well Alarice ..the answer is simple...when you die you are dead..that is all..nothing happens thereafter :-)[13:26] herman Bergson: the brain has stopped creating the mind[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: of course the answer is simple if that is in fact the case[13:27] Jozen Ocello: that's a scientific view, isn't it, Herman?[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: but we do not know[13:27] herman Bergson: Yes Jozen, it is all we know about reality so far...[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: I would call it the use of the supersense to state it[13:28] herman Bergson: To state what Aristotle?[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: this is how you feel Herman[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: about nothing after death[13:28] Alarice Beaumont: well..people who died clinically speaking and then woke up... say different ,-)[13:28] herman Bergson: No....I wouldn't say so...[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: but can you prove your claim?[13:29] AristotleVon Doobie: true or false?[13:29] herman Bergson: We know that the brain generates the mind...so when the brian stops the person is gone..dead...[13:29] AristotleVon Doobie: makes sense, but where does the mind go?[13:29] Alarice Beaumont: vanishes Ari.....[13:29] AristotleVon Doobie: and are we the body, the brain or the mind?[13:29] herman Bergson: nowhere...light a light bulb...light on ...light off...where did the light go???[13:30] herman Bergson: question makes no sense[13:30] AristotleVon Doobie: yes, as a supposition[13:30] herman Bergson: When you say..where did the mind go , you stick to cartesian dualism..[13:31] Alarice Beaumont: we only occupy our body... it's the mantle we use during our lifetime to move in the world[13:31] AristotleVon Doobie: no, I say that I do not know, and have not seen proof eitherway[13:31] herman Bergson: As I said in the former lecture..we are intuitively inclined to think in terms of dualism[13:31] Alaya Kumaki: where, is only pointing, into the unknown[13:31] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL of course I thence in at least three components of me[13:31] AristotleVon Doobie: think[13:32] herman Bergson: That is a paradox Alaya....how can we know the unknown, for if we do the unknown is known :-)[13:32] AristotleVon Doobie: yes![13:32] Alaya Kumaki: yes its a riddle[13:32] herman Bergson: smiles[13:32] herman Bergson: yes...[13:32] AristotleVon Doobie: form supernatural to scientific in a flash[13:33] herman Bergson: So...what method or means do we have to search for an afterlife...[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: not much[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: none[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: conjecture is all[13:33] herman Bergson: No and even more....[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: except to those with faith[13:33] Alarice Beaumont: not really much[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: who are sure[13:33] herman Bergson: this idea of an afterlife is based on our supersense beliefs[13:34] Alarice Beaumont: only speculations[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: indeed[13:34] herman Bergson: yes indeed[13:34] Alarice Beaumont: yes i agre[13:34] herman Bergson: What is more interesting is why people love the idea of an afterlife...[13:34] herman Bergson: I just today discussed it with my wife...:-)[13:34] Qwark Allen: afterlife(S)[13:35] Qwark Allen: plural[13:35] herman Bergson: a human life is just a flash of light in eternity...[13:35] hope63 Shepherd: HERMAN-- ITS NOT THAT THEY LOVE THAT IDEA[13:35] Alarice Beaumont: perhaps it is in us that we want a piece of us to survive[13:35] Alarice Beaumont: not just go away... the fear of just vanishing[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: The brain tho is required in order for the mind to manifest itself, the body to communicate with the world[13:35] herman Bergson: and when you die you are condemned to exist for ever one way otr th eother in an afterlife...such an absurd idea![13:36] Qwark Allen: Lavoisier have a law, that says nothing is lost, everything just transformes[13:36] AristotleVon Doobie: immortality LOL, maybe that is why Vampirism is so popular[13:36] herman Bergson: Oh yes Alarice..the motivations are clear[13:36] Alarice Beaumont: welll... works with the terrorists .... they think they get 7 virgins[13:36] Qwark Allen: why should the mind energy get lost, and not transform?[13:36] Gemma Cleanslate: 72[13:36] Gemma Cleanslate: not seven[13:36] Alarice Beaumont: in afterlife.. that's what they kill for[13:36] herman Bergson: Did you ever read Nobody is immortal by Simone de Beauvoir...???[13:36] Alarice Beaumont: looool[13:37] Alarice Beaumont: yes... which they can never handle ^^[13:37] Jozen Ocello: wow 72![13:37] Alarice Beaumont: they just don't get it loool[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: yes Qwark, why?[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: Why is the big question isn't it?[13:37] Qwark Allen: that is my question[13:37] Jozen Ocello: no, Herman, seems like an interesting book to get hold of though[13:37] Qwark Allen: yep[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: someone just needs to find the answer[13:37] Bejiita Imako: ah[13:37] Alarice Beaumont: some people think the energy will be left in this world[13:38] Gemma Cleanslate: some time maybe[13:38] Qwark Allen: there is no evidence that that isn`t correct[13:38] herman Bergson: Qwark...perfect idea...[13:38] herman Bergson: But![13:38] herman Bergson: The energy of the brain is electricity...[13:38] Qwark Allen: yes[13:38] herman Bergson: so when the electricity stops...what is left then?[13:38] Qwark Allen: and nothing get lost, so, must be transformed in something else[13:39] herman Bergson: that is not a law of physics Qwark, but a supersense law..[13:39] Qwark Allen: or we just didn`t understood well, what is electricity 100%[13:39] Qwark Allen: like we don`t understand for example, gravity[13:40] herman Bergson: ok...but where is the research that shows that electricity is more than the movements of electrons?[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: I am with you Herman, but there is the lack of the total understanding of the connection to the mind[13:40] Qwark Allen: that is why we spent 6 billions euros on LHC[13:40] herman Bergson: Oh sure..absolutely...[13:40] Qwark Allen: to understand better nature[13:40] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes[13:41] herman Bergson: Yes Qwark..we know still so little of all[13:41] Qwark Allen: that is my point[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: the mind may work on gas instead of electricity[13:41] Bejiita Imako: I wait for it to start now if they only get the access done on the injectors[13:41] Gemma Cleanslate: oh good heavens[13:41] Bejiita Imako: takes forever[13:41] Qwark Allen: we can`t discard the idea, just cause doesn't fit in the science we have today[13:41] herman Bergson: But we have to deal with the present situation and our present knowledge and thus deal with reality[13:41] Bejiita Imako: hmm yes[13:41] Qwark Allen: the science we have today, it`s it self, obsolete[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: gas as in some ethereal method[13:42] Bejiita Imako: its tricky for sure[13:42] Gemma Cleanslate: that is true or we are back to just believing on faith[13:42] Jozen Ocello: how best to deal with this reality then?[13:42] Qwark Allen: from the beginning of 20th century[13:42] herman Bergson: No Qwark, but ideas that can not be tested and yet impose a power and control on our existence are dangerous[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: yes[13:42] Qwark Allen: test gravity[13:42] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: I agree Herman[13:42] Qwark Allen: we know that it is there[13:42] herman Bergson: Oh they do...[13:42] Qwark Allen: just not understand it[13:43] Qwark Allen: no they don`t[13:43] herman Bergson: no..neither do they understand the cosmos...[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: they become intangible tools to control[13:43] Qwark Allen: if you understand it, you should apply your self to a nobel[13:43] Gemma Cleanslate: they just discovered lately that the higher you are there is a miniscule difference in time[13:43] herman Bergson: the big bang theory is nice but makes little sense as such[13:43] Gemma Cleanslate: the higher age faster[13:43] Qwark Allen: see, i`m not talking about big bang[13:43] Qwark Allen: i`m a non believer in that theory[13:44] herman Bergson: I know..but the microcosmos is the same thing..[13:44] Qwark Allen: gravity is about macro cosmos[13:44] Qwark Allen: eheh[13:44] herman Bergson: therefore I said..no discussion on the question what matter is...:-)[13:44] AristotleVon Doobie: theories....are the really supersense if they can not be proven?[13:44] Qwark Allen: we were talking about the life after death[13:44] Bejiita Imako: im not so sure about it either even if thats what the LHC tries to recreate but as i said before how can an explosion that created all stuff around us happen out of nothing[13:44] herman Bergson: There is a lot we don't know..that is ok[13:45] herman Bergson: but we know that the brain generates the mind...that is for sure[13:45] herman Bergson: By altering the brain you alter the mind...[13:45] AristotleVon Doobie: or maybe you just cloud the connection[13:45] herman Bergson: When the brain is destroyed by Alzheimer for instance...the body stays but the person is gone[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: maybe the mind is untouchable in every aspect[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: well the person's memory is gone[13:46] Qwark Allen: you are seeing only the part, when brain is destroyed[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: they can still interact normally in the present[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: loss of memory is a storage problem[13:46] Qwark Allen: what about when it`s enhanced?[13:46] Alarice Beaumont: but gemma .. with the memory .. the person is gone[13:46] herman Bergson: Oh yes Gemmma I agree....[13:46] Gemma Cleanslate: oh i don't think that[13:46] Alarice Beaumont: I must agree with herman[13:47] Gemma Cleanslate: if they hear and answer you they are still there[13:47] herman Bergson: We'll get to the philosophical issue of personal identity certainly[13:47] Qwark Allen: the are people that have a "vision" that none of us here can explain[13:47] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:47] Gemma Cleanslate: yes[13:47] Qwark Allen: yet the exist[13:47] Qwark Allen: they*[13:47] Alarice Beaumont: well... they exist.. but it's not a "life"[13:47] herman Bergson: Yes Qwark....[13:47] Gemma Cleanslate: yes i agree[13:47] Qwark Allen: i meet already some of these[13:47] Qwark Allen: in my life[13:47] Qwark Allen: sorry bout that[13:47] Alarice Beaumont: me too ...it is quite awful :-([13:48] Alarice Beaumont: if you know the person... and are seeing what happens[13:48] Qwark Allen: i`m talking of people that see more then our eyes can see[13:48] Alarice Beaumont: the third eye?[13:48] Qwark Allen: something like that[13:48] Qwark Allen: not really a 3d eye[13:48] Qwark Allen: but a "intuition"[13:48] herman Bergson: Neurobiological research has shown that by stimulating the brain ingivenareas you can have all kinds of visions[13:49] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)[13:49] Qwark Allen: you got to separate that from the squizo ones[13:49] herman Bergson: By stimulating the brain people have seen Jesus , departed family..etc[13:49] Qwark Allen: not illusions, we are talking about[13:49] Qwark Allen: or psicotic[13:50] herman Bergson: Well Qwark, I would say that all these visions and insights are generated by the supersense[13:51] herman Bergson: They are inaccessible for outsiders[13:51] Gemma Cleanslate: that is true[13:51] Qwark Allen: i wish you meet someone like this sometime[13:51] Gemma Cleanslate: probably has[13:51] herman Bergson: When someone claims to have seen the Holy Virgin...you can do nothing with that claim[13:52] Gemma Cleanslate: that is true too[13:52] Qwark Allen: i was a materialist until my 30ies [13:52] Alarice Beaumont: yes..[13:52] AristotleVon Doobie: other that shake my head and back away[13:52] herman Bergson: smiles..me too Qwark and I still am ^_^[13:52] Qwark Allen: i`m not[13:52] herman Bergson: ok...[13:53] herman Bergson: I agree with you that I love to believe there is more....[13:53] Qwark Allen: i`ve my self had experiences in this life that proved me, that , materialist is not 100% right way to explain nature[13:53] Alarice Beaumont: Qwark... i think there is no absolute truth... it's something of everthing[13:53] Qwark Allen: indeed[13:54] herman Bergson: That is the main characteristic of statements based on supersense....[13:54] Qwark Allen: it is my point of view[13:54] herman Bergson: they all relate to personal experiences[13:54] herman Bergson: so they never can be intersubjective[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: that is so true[13:54] Qwark Allen: i should start take the medication again[13:54] Qwark Allen: ehehh[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:54] Bejiita Imako: lol[13:54] Alarice Beaumont: well... i don't think there are terrorists who really can talk about the 72 virgins ,-)[13:55] Alarice Beaumont: so no experience there ^^[13:55] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)[13:55] herman Bergson: No..no one came back to introduce the 72 girls to us[13:55] Alarice Beaumont: ,-)[13:55] Qwark Allen: when we try to generalize this kind of questions, always get in wrong field[13:55] Gemma Cleanslate: yes[13:55] Gemma Cleanslate: have to go[13:56] Alarice Beaumont: yes... it is quite difficult to nail it down[13:56] herman Bergson: Then it is time to dismiss the class Qwark...^_^[13:56] Gemma Cleanslate: tuesday I hope I will be on time[13:56] Bejiita Imako: ok cu Gemma[13:56] Gemma Cleanslate: maybe not[13:56] Qwark Allen: AAHH!!![13:56] Qwark Allen: ok[13:56] herman Bergson: Thank you all for the great discussion again[13:56] Gemma Cleanslate: Bye, Bye ㋡ [13:56] Bejiita Imako: interesting for sure ㋡[13:56] Bejiita Imako: as usual[13:56] Qwark Allen: at least i told yours my opinion about[13:56] Qwark Allen: ;-)[13:56] Qwark Allen: was interesting like always[13:56] herman Bergson: Just know that hundreds of people around the world love us and read the blog of the class ^_^[13:57] Alarice Beaumont: yes very :-)[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: Thank you , Professor[13:57] Bejiita Imako: ㋡[13:57] herman Bergson: Like Hope did all the time :-)[13:57] Qwark Allen: ah nice[13:57] Alarice Beaumont: can you see how often it is clicked?[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: yo have some valid considerations Qwark[13:57] herman Bergson: Look at the map on the wall here Alarice...[13:58] Qwark Allen: it was what i`ve been thinking this last years[13:58] herman Bergson: Every red dot is a person visiting our blog[13:58] Bejiita Imako: aa ok[13:58] Qwark Allen: see you tuesday[13:58] herman Bergson: from Alaska to New Zealand[13:58] Qwark Allen: got to go to[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: wow, cool[13:58] Qwark Allen: party in 5 minutes[13:58] Qwark Allen: :-)[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: late on Q-man[13:58] Bejiita Imako: aaa nice[13:58] Alarice Beaumont: wow.... incredible![13:58] Bejiita Imako: Im on ㋡[13:58] Qwark Allen: kk[13:58] herman Bergson: Have fun Qwark![13:58] Bejiita Imako: time to scare up my neighbors[13:58] Bejiita Imako: lol[13:58] Alarice Beaumont: fantastic![13:59] Alarice Beaumont: hahahah[13:59] herman Bergson: the blog has about 10 followers for instance..another class soto speak[14:00] Alarice Beaumont: think it's great :-)[14:00] Alarice Beaumont: good acknowledgement of your work :-)[14:00] herman Bergson: Yes it is certainly motivating to go on ^_^[14:00] herman Bergson: Like this class is too[14:01] AristotleVon Doobie: it is good to see the interest
Sofar we have focused on how our brain is wired to generate our mind and our supersense, our ability to believe in the supernatural. Today we'll have a closer look at the mind itself.In the first place we instinctively try to figure out what’s on each other’s minds. What is going on in the other, so that we can come up with the right response in a debate or a negotiation or in a counseling session.We are mind-readers, but of course not perfect ones. Nevertheless, it is easier to understand others as beings motivated by minds rather than the unsavory alternative: mindless beings, sophisticated robots, or well-dressed zombies. To be able to read the mind of others we focus primarily on the face of the other and secondly on the movements of the other. We have learnt that movements have a goal and that there is an intention behind.The brain is wired to concentrate on faces. Like we are able to see faces in the clouds or in creepy dark shadows…. The fusiform gyrus of the brain (an area just behind your ears) is active whenever you look at faces.When this part of the brain gets damaged you will have difficulty in recognizing faces. It even can be that serious, that you don't recognize your own face in the mirror.From the beginning of our existence faces and movement are a sign of the other mind, of a person with intentions and beliefs. And our basic strategy is to read the mind of the other.Evolutionary our ability of mind-reading is an important tool in the group, to be able to anticipate what the other will do next. We naturally assume that others are motivated by their mind. This is what Dan Dennett calls adopting “the intentional stance.”Thus we attribute beliefs and desires to agents, as well as some intelligence and the funny thing is that these agents do not have to be only human.A smart manufacturer of vacuum cleaners put a face on its HVR 200-22 model and a name: "Henry". The result is that people start to talk about Henry as the dedicated servant whenever complains.And there goes our supersense again. The intentional stance is just a comfortable way of talking about and interacting with the natural and artificial world.Just remember Piaget, and how he discovered the animism that is in every child. Like the intentional stance this way of thinking emerges at a very young age and creates an easy route to supernatural thinking.For those who have forgotten, "supernatural thinking" means believing in ideas that defy any law of nature. Like the idea of talking to your vacuum cleaner or your dog and then believing that is has a mind that understands.The basic conclusion is that these observations of cognitive development psychology reinforce the conviction that our brain is wired to believe in dualism: the belief that we have a body and a mind and that they are two interrelated things.It was not Descartes(1596 - 1650) who introduced dualism. It was the way he used and interpreted his mind not knowing that his brain was his mind, that introduced substance dualism: body is material, mind is….????Ever heard an elder person say "Hold on… this old carcass isn't that fast anymore?" or something the like? The implied meaning is clear: tho the mind is still young and willing, the body is old and no longer what it used to be."We treat the mind and the body as separate because that is what we experience. I am controlling my body, but I am more than just my body. We sense that we exist independently of our bodies." says Bruce Hood.To conclude for today we could say that our brain generates a dualistic experience of ourselves. What this really means we'll discuss in the next lecture.The Discussion[13:21] herman Bergson: Thank you... :-)[13:21] Adriana Jinn: thanks to you[13:22] herman Bergson: If you have any question or remark..feel free[13:22] itsme Frederix: cogito ergo sum QED[13:22] Florencio Flores: *¨¨*:•.•:*¨*«´¯`•.¸¸• ☆☆☆ * S * U * P * E * R * N * A * T * U * R * A * L * ´¯`•.¸¸• *¨¨*:•[13:22] Florencio Flores: Supernatural!!![13:22] Gemma Cleanslate: it is still interesting finding out about the relationship of mind and body[13:22] itsme Frederix: sum ergo cogito?[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes Itsme...in fact that is the real thing[13:22] Gemma Cleanslate: guess so itsme[13:23] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes[13:23] herman Bergson: If our thesis is, that the brian is the mind then our friend Descartes was obviously mistaken[13:23] itsme Frederix: smart thing that brain, smart move of evolution to I guess[13:24] herman Bergson: in fact Itsme this is supernatural thinking...[13:24] itsme Frederix: nothing wrong with that after all these lectures[13:24] herman Bergson: To attribute smartness to evolution...[13:24] herman Bergson: Evolution isnt smart at all ^_^[13:24] Florencio Flores: YES I BELIEVE ON THAT THE DOGS ALL ANIMALS UNDERSTAND THINKIN[13:24] itsme Frederix: sure,[13:24] AristotleVon Doobie: evolution just is[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes Aristotle[13:25] itsme Frederix: so we just are[13:25] itsme Frederix: happens to be[13:25] herman Bergson: You could say that yes Itsme[13:25] AristotleVon Doobie: indeed, the children of evolution[13:25] herman Bergson: and if a dog would understand thinking why doesnt it read the newspaper then?[13:26] itsme Frederix: vehicles of evolution (supernatural, elitair?)[13:26] herman Bergson: No Itsme...[13:26] Florencio Flores: THEY PREFFER TO READ OUR MOVEMENTS LIKE YOU SAID[13:26] itsme Frederix: if you think right you wouldn't read a newspaper Herman[13:26] herman Bergson: the issue here is, that supernatural thinking is in fact not good...[13:26] Florencio Flores: AND LEARN THEM[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: itsme[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: it is not good[13:27] itsme Frederix: I think we must say, supernatural thinking is neither good or bad, but its good to be aware what kind of thinking you use in circumstances[13:27] Florencio Flores: well i think this herman[13:28] herman Bergson: Ok Itsme...supernarural thinking definitely has a function[13:28] itsme Frederix: Gemma, newspapers are alays interpretation you better made yourself[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: the question could be , is it productive or destructive[13:28] herman Bergson: yes Aristotle...[13:29] herman Bergson: And the general opinion is that supernatural thinking, especially if it is religious zeal is very destructive[13:29] Bejiita Imako: a dog understands things but not as well as we do, ex you can say to a trained dog ex sit and it will do that, however you might have to bribe it some with candy in process too[13:29] Bejiita Imako: hehe[13:29] Adriana Jinn: i think so herman[13:29] Bejiita Imako: or even learn them do advanced tricks[13:29] itsme Frederix: evolution has both sides productive and destructive,[13:29] AristotleVon Doobie: is the dreamer in a state of supersense, before they invents[13:29] herman Bergson: Yes Bekita,but that is all based on training only[13:30] Bejiita Imako: aa yes[13:30] itsme Frederix: herman, can you quantify "general opinion" fact please not hyperlinks into the nothing[13:30] itsme Frederix: qualify would even be better[13:31] herman Bergson: well...general opinion in the world of science[13:31] itsme Frederix: platitude[13:31] herman Bergson: ok..[13:31] herman Bergson: let is be my opinion then[13:31] itsme Frederix: supersense, science as supersense[13:31] herman Bergson: and maybe there are others that share that opnion[13:31] itsme Frederix: autority?[13:32] herman Bergson: no historical facts...[13:32] itsme Frederix: history is interpretation, facts ... which ones[13:32] Florencio Flores: here where i live dogs talks with their[13:32] Florencio Flores: ladridos[13:32] Florencio Flores: Bark[13:32] herman Bergson: The monotheistic religions, judaism, christianity and Islam have there good sides but are highly desctrucive too[13:33] Adriana Jinn: as you can interprete them yes[13:33] itsme Frederix: so atomic energy has it good side, is very destructive too[13:33] herman Bergson: this kind of supersense leads to a feeling of superiority...[13:33] herman Bergson: no...Itsme...[13:33] itsme Frederix: aha, its the way you use (or misuse) supernatural[13:33] herman Bergson: The human being who uses atomic energy can be both...not the atomic energy itself[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)[13:34] itsme Frederix: right you are herman, I slipped away also[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: the evil of it resides in the mind[13:34] herman Bergson: As I said...supernatural beliefs mean beliefs in things that defy any natural law...[13:34] herman Bergson: no abuse there[13:35] herman Bergson: the belief in gods, afterlife, ghosts, invisible forces etc.[13:35] itsme Frederix: oke, but natural law (causality) might be a supernatural interpretation[13:35] herman Bergson: If I may rephrase your statement Itsme[13:36] itsme Frederix: I'm honored[13:36] : Florencio Flores smacks Bejiita Imako's ass!!![13:36] herman Bergson: The natural law might be defying the natural law's way of interpratation of reality...[13:36] herman Bergson: that makes little sense[13:37] itsme Frederix: well "sense", does it have to make sense (I'm serouos) blind evolution[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: how's this for supersense, regarding dualism, I feel the mind is actually separate from the brain, making us a trilogy of mind/brain/body[13:37] Gemma Cleanslate: very complicated thought!!![13:37] itsme Frederix: am I stil on the topic, other might have better things to state ???[13:37] Florencio Flores: there's no evolution[13:37] Florencio Flores: simply not[13:37] Florencio Flores: people don't cares of it[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL[13:38] Bejiita Imako: hehe[13:38] herman Bergson: yes Aristotle...in my next lecture I'll address that issue in detail[13:38] Gemma Cleanslate: oh good[13:38] herman Bergson: Well Itsme, I dont really get what your point is :-)[13:39] herman Bergson: Hi Rodney ^_^[13:39] itsme Frederix: ? do I ?[13:39] Rodney Handrick: Hi Herman[13:39] AristotleVon Doobie: Rod Man![13:39] Rodney Handrick: Hi Ari[13:39] Bejiita Imako: hi Rodney[13:39] Rodney Handrick: Hi Bejita[13:39] Alarice Beaumont: Hi Rodney[13:40] Rodney Handrick: Hi Alarice[13:40] herman Bergson: Maybe things get clearer after the next lecture ^_^[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: i doubt it[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:40] itsme Frederix: oke, reading back - I guess we must not over estimate science and make that 1-1 to reality (whatever reality is)[13:40] Bejiita Imako: ㋡[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL they will be as clear as mud[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: it only gets more complicated as e go[13:40] Bejiita Imako: hehe[13:40] Adriana Jinn: HIHI[13:40] herman Bergson: Ok....[13:41] herman Bergson: But if our main "mission" as social animals is survival then science offers an opportunity and supernatural thinking doesnt[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: yes!!![13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: amen[13:42] herman Bergson: It even could endanger our survival..[13:42] itsme Frederix: If I may interprete Herman[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: I believe it has[13:43] herman Bergson: go ahead Itsme[13:43] itsme Frederix: IF our mission is survive THEN science offers ... May I remind you that without science men lived 100.000 years, and we are now learning that we can destroy men withing a 100 years[13:44] itsme Frederix: sono "historical" fact YET[13:44] herman Bergson: interesting point Itsme, yes[13:44] AristotleVon Doobie: I suspect we have not lived one iota without science[13:44] Rodney Handrick: I agree Itsme[13:44] itsme Frederix: (again of the topic I guess)[13:44] herman Bergson: But I think you are mistaken...[13:44] herman Bergson: The cave men had science too....[13:45] herman Bergson: they didnt call it that...[13:45] herman Bergson: they just carved stones, made weapons, they might have called it just knowledge[13:45] AristotleVon Doobie: indeed they did, and some great scientist in contribution[13:45] herman Bergson: so science/knowledge has been there since the beginning of mankind[13:45] itsme Frederix: that is technics[13:45] Florencio Flores: agree herman[13:45] Alarice Beaumont: think you are right Herman[13:46] Florencio Flores: human just fabricate weapons[13:46] herman Bergson: no Itme...that is human knowledge..[13:46] herman Bergson: they also learned about the healing power of certain plants...that is medicine[13:46] Alaya Kumaki: i think tha t supernatural thinking was a science that was misinterpreted or lost[13:46] itsme Frederix: He we are talking about best oppertunity to survive, and you come up with weapons?[13:46] herman Bergson: They learnt about the movement of the stars...that was astronomy[13:46] herman Bergson: and so on...[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: the very first person to rationalize was a scientist[13:47] herman Bergson: We have real knowledge and we have supernatural knowledge..[13:47] herman Bergson: and the real knowledge contributed to our survival..[13:47] herman Bergson: what we are trying to understand here is ..how to deal with supernatural knowledge...[13:48] herman Bergson: Why do we believe in the Unbelievable[13:48] Gemma Cleanslate: :-)[13:48] itsme Frederix: We have scientific/rational knowledge and supernatural/intuitive knowledge, about what we name reality[13:48] AristotleVon Doobie: I don't[13:48] Florencio Flores: herman[13:48] Alarice Beaumont: getting complicated[13:48] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:48] herman Bergson: On that point we disagree Itsme[13:48] itsme Frederix: there is no such thing a "real knowledge"[13:48] Florencio Flores: do you believe in the future zen?[13:48] Gemma Cleanslate: that we seem to agreee on[13:48] itsme Frederix: or everything is "real knowledge"[13:49] herman Bergson: My definition of knowledge is that its truth value can be tested...by experiment[13:49] Gemma Cleanslate: historical facts appear to be real knowledge[13:49] herman Bergson: the existence of angels or ghost can not be tested...just believed in[13:49] Gemma Cleanslate: yes and scientific facts[13:49] Qwark Allen: the real knowledge of today, it`s not the same as in the future[13:49] AristotleVon Doobie: unless they are altered for political reasons[13:50] itsme Frederix: a fact is not the same thing as knowledge, a fact you can know and imbed in knowledge (that my opinion)[13:50] itsme Frederix: ?why can we not test for angels Herman?[13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: actual experience is the closet to truth you will get[13:51] herman Bergson: well...this gets complicated..for here we come to ideas of for instance Wittgenstein....[13:51] herman Bergson: The world is all states of affair...[13:51] herman Bergson: The concept of "fact" is very difficullt[13:51] itsme Frederix: complication is not an excuse, we are trained by you so ...[13:51] herman Bergson: or to say it otherwise...where does the fact begin and where dus it end :-)[13:51] Adriana Jinn: ohhhhh[13:52] AristotleVon Doobie: in the end, we alone are the judge of fact or fiction[13:52] herman Bergson: Yes Itsme, but we loose focus, for this is an epistemologial problem[13:52] Qwark Allen: begin in real knowledge and end in the supernatural one[13:53] itsme Frederix: oke focus ... body/brain => mind[13:53] herman Bergson: Well...I would suggest to wait and see what the next lecture will bring you[13:53] Florencio Flores: brb[13:53] Qwark Allen: not always istme[13:53] herman Bergson: This was really a great discussion..especially thanx to Itsme..![13:53] itsme Frederix: quarks are different I know[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:54] Bejiita Imako: hehe[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: thanks[13:54] herman Bergson: So,...may I thank you for this good debate...[13:54] Qwark Allen: your lack of knowledge there it`s not natural[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: hope to see you on Thursday[13:54] Qwark Allen: eheheh[13:54] AristotleVon Doobie: the next class is a must then......thank you, Professor[13:54] Bejiita Imako: interesting ㋡[13:54] itsme Frederix: I felt like the roman guy in Asterix&Obelix, setting up every one[13:54] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.... ^_^[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥[13:54] Gemma Cleanslate: Herman[13:54] herman Bergson: you are welcome Gemma[13:54] Adriana Jinn: sorry have to go thank you professor and all[13:54] itsme Frederix: Herman you gave the fuel. THX[13:54] Alarice Beaumont: wow... thanks Professor[13:55] Qwark Allen: HooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo !!!!!![13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: bye Adriana[13:55] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)[13:55] Alarice Beaumont: have a great evening Qwark :-)[13:55] Jeb Larkham: thanks Herman byeee[13:55] herman Bergson: Thank you Itsme..[13:55] Adriana Jinn: bye aristo [13:55] itsme Frederix: your welcome Herman ;)[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thanks! was so interesting!!![13:55] Bejiita Imako: ㋡[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty herman![13:55] Alaya Kumaki: thank yu herman, it is interesting, somthing to pond uppon, again,[13:55] herman Bergson: smiles at Bergie[13:56] itsme Frederix: Bye Bye[13:56] Rodney Handrick: thanks Herman[13:56] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ׺°”˜I'M BACK`”°º×[13:56] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-) smiles[13:56] herman Bergson: Ok Alaya...go for it ^_^[13:56] Alaya Kumaki: byby[13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: wb bergie[13:56] Bejiita Imako: cxu[13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL[13:56] Bejiita Imako: bye[13:57] Alarice Beaumont: nite everyone :-) see you thursday[13:57] herman Bergson: Bye all[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: very interesting Herman[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: thanks agin[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: see you Thursday[13:57] herman Bergson: Ok Aristotle...always good to sasee you here![13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: :) later
So the questions we are going to try to answer are: Why do we believe in the supernatural and What is the source of this way of thinking about the world?In my former lecture I introduced the human faculty of the supersense as a possible answer, as is introduced by Bruce Hood in his book "SuperSense: Why we believe in the Unbelievable" (2009).Our main focus is the brain and the science behind our beliefs. We want to understand why we believe in the Unbelievable. We will not discuss the question now, whether these beliefs are TRUE of FALSE.When we have found a plausible answer to our primary question, you yourself can evaluate and maybe better understand our supernatural beliefs.Yet, the result of such an evaluation can be lean and thin. Beliefs are hard to get hold of. That is how beliefs work. They are hard to change by reasonable arguments. Where does that stubborn way of thinking come from?We have plenty of examples for that: a person coming back from death, manna (bread) raining from the sky, water that is magically turned into wine, feeding a crowd of hundreds of people with five loaves and two fishes, a man walking on the water.Because we are part of human culture we are easily inclined to believe that all our beliefs are coming from what others have told us. From childhood on we believe what others tell us, because we trust them.But there is another explanation for why we believe in the Unbelievable and that is a natural, scientific interpretation, based on the design of our mind.Design means a structured, organized way of interpreting the world based on the way our brain works.It is absolutely true that our culture tells unbelievable stories to children, but I don't think that that is the only way how our beliefs come into being. For a long time you believed in Santa Claus; now you probably do not anymore. Something made you change your mind.The frame of mind of a child brings the child to believe in the supernatural. So it will be very interesting to take a closer look at the development of thinking in the child.If supersense is part of our natural way of understanding the world, then it will emerge in every child, which is born with this frame of mind.Bruce says at this point that if so, then it will be almost impossible to ban all supernatural beliefs. Supersense will always be part of our mind.It is interesting to note that recently there has emerged a strong movement against any religious beliefs. They are regarded as destructive for mankind. You find this point of view in books of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, for instance.Bruce Hood is milder and even asks the question whether it really is necessary to spend great effort on banning all supernatural beliefs. As you may recall, the communist countries did everything in that respect.. Yet, e.g. Poland is one of the most catholic countries in Europe these days.Maybe the human species even needs this supersense. How do we deal with death, for instance. In many ways: an afterlife, reincarnation, a spiritual merging with the world energy, heaven.Another thing is that the human is a social animal and to participate in society we have to share conventions: things which we assign a common and special value to.This can be a banknote, or an original painting of Rembrandt (you can copy it, but that IS a copy, not the real thing). It can be a special place or a church or a stone in Mekka.If we didn't share these sacred values, the only sacred value which would be left would be ourselves as individual. This would turn society into a Hobbesian world, in which everybody only fights for his own benefits.zzz[13:24] herman Bergson: Now the floor is yours :-)[13:24] Daruma Boa: and we have missed that instinct, called supernatural thinking[13:24] Abraxas Nagy: the floor remains empty[13:24] Abraxas Nagy: ah[13:25] Daruma Boa: no[13:25] Rodney Handrick accepted your inventory offer.[13:25] herman Bergson: no Daruma…we havent...it is there in our brain..physically there..[13:25] Daruma Boa: no we lost it[13:25] itsme Frederix: intuition or instinct[13:25] Daruma Boa: because of the society[13:25] Daruma Boa: we always think about what others could think about us^^[13:25] Daruma Boa: instinct[13:26] herman Bergson: yes..I will get to all these point Daruma in next lectures...[13:26] Daruma Boa: hey rod[13:26] Daruma Boa: nearly in time^^[13:26] herman Bergson: Welcome Rodney[13:26] Rodney Handrick: hi Daruma[13:26] Rodney Handrick: hi herman[13:26] itsme Frederix: I like instinct it gives me a more materialized idea about intuition (kind of source)[13:26] Bejiita Imako: hi Rodney[13:26] Daruma Boa: ok[13:26] Rodney Handrick: hi bejiita[13:26] Alarice Beaumont: hey Rodney[13:26] Rodney Handrick: hi alarice[13:26] Daruma Boa: u need always something to keep in your hands itsme?[13:27] herman Bergson: What you call instinct Itsme is there...in our brain...[13:27] Daruma Boa: something that can u grab?[13:27] itsme Frederix: Danuma YEP, what else is there[13:27] Daruma Boa: your mind[13:27] Alarice Beaumont: :-)[13:27] itsme Frederix: of course I've some hands in my brain[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: The only sacred value which would be left would be ourselves as individual.....is that the first step to those daydreamers who formulate this superlatives of comfort? heaven, proper behavior etc in the indoctrination of their ideology and then the control of the group formed from their persuasion?[13:27] Daruma Boa: these are only the tools to eat[13:27] Daruma Boa: drive cars[13:27] Daruma Boa: kiss e.g.[13:28] Daruma Boa: use the keyboards^^[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: power is at the root of all these supernatural things[13:28] Daruma Boa: which power?[13:28] herman Bergson: from an evolutionary point of view Aristotle may be right...[13:28] herman Bergson: survival...[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: the poser of those who formulate the comfort of the supernatural[13:29] herman Bergson: that is the power[13:29] Gemma Cleanslate: interesting[13:29] itsme Frederix: die Wille (Schopenhauer)[13:29] AristotleVon Doobie: teh desire to have power and its benefits[13:29] Daruma Boa: yes thats your mind, your thought your wishes[13:29] herman Bergson: Good reference, Itsme...[13:29] itsme Frederix: blind power[13:29] Daruma Boa: treu der wille^^[13:29] herman Bergson: reference[13:29] Daruma Boa: true[13:29] Bejiita Imako: aah[13:29] Bejiita Imako: yes[13:29] itsme Frederix: oke sorry to I made it female[13:30] AristotleVon Doobie: perhaps it all starts innocently[13:30] herman Bergson: Well..when you refer to Schopenhauer...[13:30] AristotleVon Doobie: a loved ones dies.....trying to understand[13:30] herman Bergson: He hadnt the slightest idea about evolution...[13:30] Daruma Boa: *GIGGLES* :)~~~~[13:30] AristotleVon Doobie: the concept of heaven is comforting[13:30] itsme Frederix: But he lived in that time Herman[13:31] herman Bergson: but he had an intuition about the driving power...he called it the Will...[13:31] itsme Frederix: But let's follow Ari, I've lost him?![13:31] herman Bergson: Darwin called it the survival of the fittest (the best adapted to the environment)[13:31] AristotleVon Doobie: anyway, the concept is shared with others and then the movement begins[13:31] herman Bergson: There is a parallel in my opinion[13:32] itsme Frederix: sure but what thread do we expand in this discussion Schopenhauer/evolution or ...[13:32] Daruma Boa: sharing to move is important[13:32] AristotleVon Doobie: like all groups, clicks form and someone has to be in charge[13:32] herman Bergson: the main focus is the reality of the supersense...[13:32] Daruma Boa: well its not important who said what[13:33] Daruma Boa: its importnat what do u think?[13:33] herman Bergson: the willingness of the human to believe the unbelievable[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: then you are told if you do not behave in a certain way , you will be denied heaven[13:33] Daruma Boa: Schopenhauer is dead^^[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: worse yet, if you further misbehave you will go to hell[13:33] herman Bergson: yes and I am not....[13:33] Abraxas Nagy: ╔╗╔═╦╗[13:33] Abraxas Nagy: ║╚╣║║╚╗[13:33] Abraxas Nagy: ╚═╩═╩═╝[13:33] Daruma Boa: *GIGGLES* :)~~~~[13:34] Bejiita Imako: haha[13:34] herman Bergson: WAIT A MINUTE....[13:34] Abraxas Nagy: lucky us[13:34] Daruma Boa: highway to hell[13:34] herman Bergson: HOLD ON....[13:34] Alarice Beaumont: lol[13:34] Abraxas Nagy: acdc[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hehe[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: my point is it is all conjured up for the purpose of controlling others[13:34] itsme Frederix: I think, its my opinion that Bruce has a point. He comes with some examples/proves that a) supersense is there and b) it could be wired in the brain and c) it is an effective 9in some cases) way of dealing with ... well life[13:34] Bejiita Imako: that i use often to scare my neighbors[13:34] Bejiita Imako: lol[13:34] herman Bergson: What we are talking about is the willingness of the human to believe the unbelievable...[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: yes, and the desire for comfort and pleasure is the motivating force to belive[13:35] Daruma Boa: sometime ari yes[13:35] Daruma Boa: but that are the ppl, who dont understand the supernatural[13:35] Abraxas Nagy: all our senses are wired into the brain[13:36] herman Bergson: Aristotle...(and others)..first ..there are debating rules on the board behind me ^_^[13:36] AristotleVon Doobie: once the adults take hold of the idea, the children are indoctrinated[13:36] herman Bergson: and second..Aristotle what is your point?:-)[13:36] Abraxas Nagy: it builds a view of reality based on it[13:36] herman Bergson: ok ok...[13:36] AristotleVon Doobie: the belief of these supernatural events, and their source[13:36] herman Bergson: yes..as I already said...[13:37] herman Bergson: for that we first have to study the development of thinking....[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: yes[13:37] Abraxas Nagy: exactly[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: that is what I suggested[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: where the thought begins[13:37] herman Bergson: and I can tell you....you all are still full of childlike ways of thinking...[13:37] Alarice Beaumont: experience[13:37] itsme Frederix: Herman thats ad omium[13:37] Abraxas Nagy: i bet we are[13:38] herman Bergson: lol..no Itsme that is a matter of fact...[13:38] Daruma Boa: why give an example[13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: yes, you can not competely remove that nurturing[13:38] Alarice Beaumont: exemplified behavior[13:38] herman Bergson: any form of superstion is childlike thinking..[13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: it is[13:38] herman Bergson: and dont you have your personal rituals????[13:38] Daruma Boa: ;-) why u think that?[13:38] itsme Frederix: Herman even worse, how can we deny facts. But please prove![13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: and is encouraged by those who can benefit from it I believe[13:38] Daruma Boa: only cos u never made such experiences?[13:39] herman Bergson: stop that Aristotle..lol[13:39] AristotleVon Doobie: :)[13:39] AristotleVon Doobie: yes sir[13:39] herman Bergson: no ..it is true...[13:39] Daruma Boa: what is true in live?[13:39] herman Bergson: who doesnt have his lucky coin or rabbitfoot...[13:39] Daruma Boa: there are always 2 sides of the story[13:40] herman Bergson: or his favorite chair....when I sit there I can do things better...[13:40] herman Bergson: we are stuffed with tons of such beliefs...[13:40] Alarice Beaumont: hmm[13:40] Alarice Beaumont: you think scientists also believe in this? have rabbit foots and that stuff?[13:41] herman Bergson: Ever walked on the pavement and had the feeling that you had to skip two tiles every step..[13:41] herman Bergson: No Alarice...we will get to that...that is exactly the point...[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: yes, I was told this as a child...step on a crack break you mothers back[13:41] herman Bergson: our believeds against how we look at science..[13:41] Gemma Cleanslate: so much is intertwined[13:42] Daruma Boa: science... that are only stuoied humans as we are[13:42] Daruma Boa: stupied[13:42] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥[13:42] Daruma Boa: with their own view 2 see the world[13:42] herman Bergson: Right Aristotle...and nice of you , that you obeyed (I hope)[13:42] Abraxas Nagy: ╔╗╔═╦╗[13:42] Abraxas Nagy: ║╚╣║║╚╗[13:42] Abraxas Nagy: ╚═╩═╩═╝[13:42] Daruma Boa: there is no truth or so[13:42] Daruma Boa: i think i learned that here^^#[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: :)[13:42] Bejiita Imako: haha[13:43] Abraxas Nagy: we all have our own truth[13:43] herman Bergson: I dont agree Daruma...[13:43] Daruma Boa: mh[13:43] herman Bergson: no Abraxas we dont[13:43] Abraxas Nagy: ah[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: if truth only cold be had[13:43] Daruma Boa: i have 5 truths^^[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: could[13:43] herman Bergson: if that were true..you hav etons of other methods to send a rocket to the moon...[13:44] herman Bergson: dont confuce truth with commandments Daruma ^_^..you missed 5 then :-)[13:44] Alarice Beaumont: ^^[13:44] Abraxas Nagy: ah but each interprets the world in his own unique wayt[13:44] Daruma Boa: 42?[13:44] Daruma Boa: ^^[13:44] herman Bergson: No Abraxas I dont agree...[13:45] itsme Frederix: not 42, 20 is the figure these times[13:45] Daruma Boa: ;-)[13:45] itsme Frederix: (rubic's cube)[13:45] Alarice Beaumont: lool[13:45] Bejiita Imako: haha[13:45] herman Bergson: The reality around us isnt a matter of subjective interpretation....a bullit is a bullit..beng...hit ..dead[13:45] Daruma Boa: and in another world[13:46] Daruma Boa: or dimension perhaps[13:46] Daruma Boa: who knows?[13:46] itsme Frederix: supersense[13:46] Daruma Boa: we not[13:46] Daruma Boa: or forgot it[13:46] herman Bergson: there we go….Daruma's supernatural thinking...[13:46] Daruma Boa: yes i know[13:46] Daruma Boa: its true[13:46] Daruma Boa: we n[13:46] Abraxas Nagy: ah u mean cause and effect[13:46] Daruma Boa: know nothing[13:46] Alarice Beaumont: some people just do have a "fine antenna"[13:46] Abraxas Nagy: causality[13:46] herman Bergson: the essential characteristic of supernatural thinking is that it defies laws of nature[13:46] Daruma Boa: so we cant talk really about it[13:47] itsme Frederix: nothing wrong with it - you can't help (everyone is biased)[13:47] Daruma Boa: hi jozen[13:47] herman Bergson: Ther eyou go Alarice...supernatural thinking too[13:47] Gemma Cleanslate: yes[13:47] Jozen Ocello: hi Daruma, Hi everyone, so sorry I'm late[13:47] AristotleVon Doobie: since it defies the laws of nature, why do you suppose it is thought?[13:48] itsme Frederix: causality is one of those supersense/natural ideas[13:48] herman Bergson: Here you see..we are loaded with supernatual thinking....[13:48] herman Bergson: We'll discuss that later Itsme..if you dont mind[13:48] itsme Frederix: well it came up prof[13:48] Daruma Boa: next week^[13:48] Bejiita Imako: aa yes probably, even if i mostly believe in pure science i bet i have a load of these things myself[13:49] Bejiita Imako: its interesting for sure[13:49] Bejiita Imako: ㋡[13:49] herman Bergson: yes Bejiita....if it were only your favorite pen....[13:49] Daruma Boa: we dont have to put thinking into boxes (schubläden);-)[13:49] Bejiita Imako: ah[13:49] Daruma Boa: just think and feel[13:49] herman Bergson: no Daruma...we have to get it out of the boxes![13:49] AristotleVon Doobie: we start collecting baggage from birth, a great deal of it empty[13:49] itsme Frederix: well some times its better to leave it in the box (pandora)[13:49] Bejiita Imako: one thing no one takes its my chair at work at the coffee table[13:49] Daruma Boa: i think, if we would feel more, than to think[13:50] Bejiita Imako: haha[13:50] Daruma Boa: ^^^[13:50] Daruma Boa: a lot would be better[13:50] herman Bergson: That might be quite true Aristotle...[13:50] herman Bergson: and empty here means Supernatural[13:50] Daruma Boa: yes herman let the thinking of the boxes free^^[13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: :)[13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: it may behoove us to cast a lot of it off[13:51] herman Bergson: Well....hearing this discussion.....great...[13:51] herman Bergson: our next lectures will be wuite interesting then for you....^_^[13:51] Alarice Beaumont: so.. who of you has a lucky token or something like this?[13:52] herman Bergson: So..thank you all for you participation..it was inspiring..[13:52] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes[13:52] Bejiita Imako: really[13:52] Abraxas Nagy: it sure was[13:52] AristotleVon Doobie: Thank you Herman :)[13:52] herman Bergson: class dismissed ^_^[13:52] Bejiita Imako: look forward to next one[13:52] Rodney Handrick: yes, interesting[13:52] Daruma Boa: it was a pleasure[13:52] Gemma Cleanslate: yes[13:52] Bejiita Imako: ㋡[13:52] Alarice Beaumont: great subject to talk about :-)[13:52] herman Bergson: my pleasure too Daruma..^_^[13:52] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥[13:52] Gemma Cleanslate: herman[13:52] Bejiita Imako: indeed[13:52] Rodney Handrick: thanks Herman[13:53] Bejiita Imako: great stuff[13:53] Daruma Boa: mh^^[13:53] Jozen Ocello: so sorry i missed this... will read up on it on the blog[13:53] herman Bergson: ok Jozen....[13:53] Jozen Ocello: thanks professor :)[13:53] herman Bergson: Go and spank yourself first ^_^[13:53] Jozen Ocello: hehe[13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL[13:53] Bejiita Imako: lol
