Thomas Paine was an English pamphleteer, revolutionary, radical, classical liberal and intellectual. Born in Great Britain in 1737. He must have known Mary Wollstonecraft.
He was more a jounalist than a real philosopher and that brings me to the question Cailleach asked last time about Wollstonecraft: Why is she in the100 list? When you look at the homepage of my blog of this class at http://www.thoughts.com/herman_bergson/ you'll find the 100 list in my profile there.
And there you also find the answer: the philosophers are grouped by a theme....scolastics, rationalists, empiricists and Paine is in the group of Liberals. And in that sense you may call him a philosopher, a thinker on the organisation of the state and society.
He must have been a special personality, someone who impressed people by his talents. In a lot of things he wasn't that successful, but as a writer and thinker he definitely was. Let me quote him, to give you an idea:
"Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following pages, are not YET sufficiently fashionable to procure them general favour; a long habit of not thinking a thing WRONG, gives it a superficial appearance of being RIGHT, and raises at first a formidable outcry in defense of custom."
The first sentence from the introduction of his publication: Common Sense. And here we go with common sense:
"Some writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness.:
"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one." The opening words of Common Sense, first line chapter one.
Suppose a group of people settle in some sequestered part of the earth. Quote:"In this state of natural liberty, society will be their first thought. A thousand motives will excite them thereto; the strength of one man is so unequal to his wants, and his mind so unfitted for perpetual solitude, that he is soon obliged to seek assistance and relief of another, who in his turn requires the same."
This is beautiful reading. In the first place it is an example of clear rationalism: concepts like natural freedom and society arent anylized or defined. They are considered to be clear and disitinc ideas in the mind.
And furthermore we hear the echo of the ideas of Jean-Jaques Rousseau: Man in a natural state enjoys a natural liberty. The supposed natural state is considered to be the ideal state. It all is what the title of his book says: it all is based on Common Sense.
He is a real anti-monarchist. Just read the next words and you will know why European Royalty wasnt that happy with Paine's pamphlets: "In the early ages of the world, according to the scripture chronology there were no kings; the consequence of which was, there were no wars; it is the pride of kings which throws mankind into confusion. Holland, without a king hath enjoyed more peace for this last century than any of the monarchical governments in Europe."
Paine is great reading. Amazing to read these words, still so clear and understandable, written in 1776. The en.wikipedia,org has a detailed article on Paine and his most important writings you find at http://www.ushistory.org/paine/
One final quote from the first essay of Paine's book: The Crisis, December 23, 1776. It is actually a collection of essays, which he wrote between 1776 and 1783, George Washington LOVED it and had is distributed among his troops.
"I have as little superstition in me as any man living, but my secret opinion has ever been, and still is, that God Almighty will not give up a people to military destruction, or leave them unsupportedly to perish, who have so earnestly and so repeatedly sought to avoid the calamities of war, by every decent method which wisdom could invent."
A statement like this doesnt need any comment....(^_^)
The Discussion
13:23] Herman Bergson: Well...Thomas Paine died and only 5 men attended his funural
[13:24] Herman Bergson: you are 5....
[13:24] arabella Ella: oh poor Thomas ... only 5 MEN?
[13:24] AristotleVon Doobie: :)
[13:24] Herman Bergson: So time to start our lecture....and bury THomas Paine again in memory.
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[13:34] Herman Bergson: So far on Thomas Paine....
[13:34] Herman Bergson: I didnt know him ...he is not in the tradional lists...
[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: If Mr. Paine's bones could be located I would certainly pay homage to this man.
[13:35] Herman Bergson: yes indeed Aristotle...but they are lost..:-)
[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: yes
[13:35] Herman Bergson: He is a pleasure to read...
[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: Oh my yes
[13:36] AristotleVon Doobie: his words warm my blood
[13:36] Herman Bergson: I can imagine
[13:36] Athena John: Do you think Paine's work still has application today beyond it's value as philosophy?
[13:36] Herman Bergson: oh yes...that is so good about it...
[13:37] Herman Bergson: just read his work and you will be convinced Athena
[13:37] Athena John: I know it well. :)
[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: I think every thing he said is contempory.
[13:37] Athena John: As do I.
[13:38] Herman Bergson: yes...as I didnt know him...his work was a joy to read....so applicable still...his arguments...
[13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: If I may add anoter of his quotes "These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value."
[13:38] Herman Bergson: The Crisis....:-)
[13:38] Herman Bergson: the December 23 essay
[13:39] Athena John: That applies to the current political situation in the US
[13:39] AristotleVon Doobie: Sweet words
[13:39] Herman Bergson: Yes..a lot of his words apply to the US..
[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: I think his ealy US days was his glory, and Robespiere was his misery
[13:40] Herman Bergson: Well...I think his ideas about religion were his misery...
[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: but his impisionment gave us the Age of Reason
[13:41] Herman Bergson: He rejected all chuch organisations...he pleaded for deism...
[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: yes he was devout at one time
[13:41] Herman Bergson: and that cost him all his friends in the US
[13:41] Herman Bergson: that is why he died and there were only 5 people at his funeral
[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: well I think that is what is behind Deism, God had to remain to relate to the people who believed
[13:42] Herman Bergson: among which two black men....
[13:42] Herman Bergson: Paine was the first one who wrote an article against slavery in the US
[13:43] Herman Bergson: As you see....Paine was not what you call a real philosopher...
[13:43] Herman Bergson: but he was a man of his time...mind set to Revolution...
[13:44] Herman Bergson: and I can advise you to read Common Sense and The Crisis...it is worth reading
[13:44] Rasana Destiny: bye all
[13:44] arabella Ella: bye rasand
[13:44] Herman Bergson: Bye Rasana
[13:44] Laila Schuman: baiee
[13:45] AristotleVon Doobie: Do you think he employed Smith empathy in his thinking?
[13:45] Herman Bergson: hmmm..I dont know....I would say no...
[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: he certainly applied the golden rule
[13:46] AristotleVon Doobie: or surely
[13:46] Herman Bergson: He had the Rousseau way of thinking..the believe in a natural stae of man
[13:46] Herman Bergson: the belief that man by nature was good
[13:47] AristotleVon Doobie: and bonded together with others for mutual assistance as a society
[13:47] AristotleVon Doobie: the evil coming in with government
[13:47] Herman Bergson: that's what he said..^_^
[13:47] arabella Ella: yes because if he believed government was not necessary that removes all sense of protection ... including individual protection (property rights) and communal protection (defence)
[13:48] arabella Ella: and protection and defence are generally considered to be the basic requirements for any community
[13:48] Herman Bergson: He did accept government..
[13:48] Herman Bergson: didnt reject it
[13:49] AristotleVon Doobie: yes anarchy sounds wonderful until you consider it is you against the world
[13:49] arabella Ella: oh i thought you said he thought government was evil? or did i misunderstand?
[13:49] hope63 Shepherd: wolves are bonded together with their fellow wolves for mutual assistance in their society.. does that ringa bell ari?
[13:49] Herman Bergson: yes...he said it was evil, but a necesary evil..
[13:49] AristotleVon Doobie: hope you are such a treat
[13:50] Herman Bergson: so we have to keep government in check...
[13:50] hope63 Shepherd: lol
[13:50] Herman Bergson: democratic
[13:50] AristotleVon Doobie: LOl I think he was republican :)
[13:50] Athena John: republicans triple the size of govt
[13:51] Herman Bergson: well..at least agains monarchy, Aristotle..:-)
[13:51] AristotleVon Doobie: yes :)
[13:51] AristotleVon Doobie: and he like Napolean until he met him
[13:51] herman Bergson smiles
[13:52] hope63 Shepherd: so did goethe :)
[13:52] Herman Bergson: I guess you read the same pages as I do Aristotle...
[13:52] AristotleVon Doobie: I hope so Herman
[13:52] Herman Bergson: Welll it is interesting to see that Paine isnt in the IEP nor in the Stanford collection
[13:53] AristotleVon Doobie: yes I did notice that...a great thinker tho
[13:53] Herman Bergson: only en.wiki has a large and detailed article on him
[13:53] arabella Ella: thanks herman but i must leave a bit early today
[13:53] arabella Ella: bye everyone
[13:53] Herman Bergson: I am amazed about th influence his writings had indeed
[13:54] AristotleVon Doobie: bye arabella
[13:54] Herman Bergson: By a Arabella
[13:54] CONNIE Eichel: bye arab :))
[13:54] AristotleVon Doobie: I think that his writings are simply put and really speak for themselves
[13:54] hope63 Shepherd: careful with your spelling connie.. the cia is watching us:)
[13:55] Herman Bergson: yes..they are very readable
[13:55] Athena John: as is OHS
[13:55] Laila Schuman: baieee
[13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: yes you may trigger a filter
[13:55] CONNIE Eichel: :))
[13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: :)
[13:55] AristotleVon Doobie: dont you just love george bush?
[13:56] CONNIE Eichel: haha
[13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: ooops another filter
[13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: kind of makes Paine relevant
[13:56] Herman Bergson: me?..love Bush?
[13:56] AristotleVon Doobie: just kidding
[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL
[13:57] Herman Bergson: He is not my president..:-)
[13:57] hope63 Shepherd: with the colonialist background of holland you might like him herman:)
[13:57] Athena John: Nor mine
[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: well, i think he is not much of one either
[13:57] Herman Bergson: Hope...watch your tongue!!...^_^
[13:57] AristotleVon Doobie: ROFLOL
[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: that Hope
[13:58] hope63 Shepherd: lol.. i had to face worse than that beeing german and loiving with a jw..lol
[13:58] Herman Bergson: Sometimes I love to be Hope-less....^_^
[13:58] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL
[13:58] hope63 Shepherd: that's why i 'm not here lol
[13:58] Herman Bergson: lol...cool
[14:01] Herman Bergson: Well..this was Thomas Paine...and the class was almost symbolic regarding the number of people attending the lecture
[14:01] Herman Bergson: thank you for your attention..^_^
[14:01] AristotleVon Doobie: yes the five mourners
[14:01] AristotleVon Doobie: thank you Herman
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