In the context of a series of non-academic lectures about "The History of Economic Thought", the following text is meant to be a very concise description of the historical context in which Marx emerged. Evaluate and rate the text:
To thinkers like Adam Smith, David Ricardo, and their disciples, capitalism meant an undreamed expansion of production,
increase of wealth and economic intercourse between nations, together with all the cultural benefits involved.
In addition, capitalism, to them, meant liberalism in politics and the destruction of oppressive regulations.
To the workers, early capitalism meant utter pauperism, unemployment, or at best, hard labour in factories for themselves, their wives, and children.
They thought that long working hours, dangerous and unsanitary working conditions, and oppressive supervision by capitalists were their common lot.
The conditions of the time were such that workers and capitalists were antagonists. A wide disparity of income was accepted as natural and unavoidable.
And everything suggested that there was no hope for social and economic equality.
The socialist theory of Marx did not just pop up out of nowhere. As we have seen in previous lectures, socialist-like ideas were for a long time part of moral theories.
To refresh your memory, the roots of egalitarianism can be traced as far back as the Enlightenment.
The belief in the equality of men and the demand for it were sown in ancient Greece.
It had been absorbed by earlier religious exhortations and began to germinate in the early eighteenth Century.
Attempts were made to apply the social and economic equality of men in the past, as we saw in the previous lecture about romantic communes based on socialist principles.
So, the development of the social and economic ideas of Karl Marx is embedded in a much larger historical context,
which focused on the dissatisfaction with the social and economic position of the workers.
While the utopian socialists, which I mentioned in the previous lecture, came and have gone again, the ideas of Karl Marx trickled down into the social and economic organisations of societies.
A preliminary conclusion is possible here: The word socialism usually conjures up several meanings, like public ownership of economic enterprise,
subjugation of individual freedom, elimination of private property, conscious direction of economic activity, and so on.
In practice, socialism is rarely the clear-cut alternative to capitalism it is often held out to be. But every capitalist economy today possesses some socialist elements or institutions.
Now that we understand the world Marx was born into, next time we'll delve into his specific analysis of it.
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
of Economic Thought (2012)
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
25 - Historical Materialism 5 Oct 2023 / 1088
26 - The Bonobo and the Atheist 9 Jan 2024 / 1102
27 - Artificial Intelligence 9 Feb 2024 / 1108
28 - Why Am I Here 6 Sept 2024 / 1139
The Discussion
[13:14] herman Bergson: Thank you for your attention...
[13:14] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:14] Max Chatnoir: Thanks, Herman.
[13:15] Max Chatnoir: Sharing the wealth seems like a relatively straightforward concept, but the complexity of corporate activity makes it more complicated.
[13:16] Max Chatnoir: You're not just the big factory in the middle of town any more.
[13:16] herman Bergson: What might give us some hope for the future is, that from the beginning of time homo sapiens somehow feels that there should be equality, or at least not too huge inequality among men
[13:16] Stranger Nightfire: wasn't mercantilism kind of a bridge from feudalism to capitalism in fact this sort of proto capitalism
[13:17] Stranger Nightfire: Delays on the wealth of royal bloodlines was replaced by the wealth of self made merchants
[13:17] Stranger Nightfire: They actually became a kind of royalty and things like the Italian city states
[13:17] herman Bergson: In a way you could say that Stranger....One gets richer at the cost of the other who gets poorer.
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess so
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:18] Stranger Nightfire: And actually I have read before some sense of these kind of social justice issues existing as far back as the civilizations of Sumeria and Babylon
[13:19] Stranger Nightfire: I mean there were even things encoded into law that to some protected the people the power of those who had accumulated too much wealth
[13:19] Stranger Nightfire: They had the equivalent of bankruptcy laws
[13:19] Max Chatnoir: The difficulty is in finding a method of fair ness that everybody will agree to.
[13:19] herman Bergson: What interest me so much is the fact that we seem to have such a problem with equality
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and it is getting worse
[13:20] herman Bergson: Some inequality isunderstandable...but a 1% that possesses 80% of the wealth of a country.....?!
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its insane indeed
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): both money and power
[13:21] Stranger Nightfire: I can remember within my lifetime seeing people complaining about the fact CEO We're making 10 times as much as average workers
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): owned by less then 1 % and they destroy for everyone else both with greed and hatred/war ect
[13:22] herman Bergson: We are an operation system full of contradictions..... :-)
[13:22] Stranger Nightfire: and now it can be hundreds of times
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Trump, Putin Kim Jonng ect, just a few guys but they keep billions of others in a living hell
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it is crazy
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and dsad
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sad
[13:23] herman Bergson: We incorporate willingness to share and greed and envy and love all at the same time....
[13:24] Stranger Nightfire: It occurs to me I have still never gotten around to watching the movie Wall Street I will have to rectify that
[13:24] herman Bergson: Maybe there is a small light at the horizon.....
[13:24] Max Chatnoir: I don't think I have seen it either....
[13:24] herman Bergson: YEs Stranger...good idea ..
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i hope so indeed Herman
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): no, maybe i shoul check
[13:25] Stranger Nightfire: I know the famous quote from it Greed is good
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes that was the one
[13:25] Max Chatnoir: What was the context?
[13:25] herman Bergson: You know, the fact that almost all capitalist countries (say mainly Europe) have adopted some socialist ideas as organizing principles of their societies....
[13:26] herman Bergson: The context was the positioon of the rich capitalists contra the exploited workers around 1850 -1900
[13:28] herman Bergson: In fact is the US the only big capitalist country that fights against almost any application of socialist ideas.
[13:28] Max Chatnoir: I get the idea that if you've invented something really useful, you should be able to profit from it. But unless you're actually making all by yourself, shouldn't you share with the people helping you produce it?
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like how they always describe socialismm as something bad " those bloody damn socialists!"
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): equalizing it with russian communism
[13:29] herman Bergson: The point is, Max....someone may invent something special, but he was educated in a public school system, survived due to a national healthcare...and so on.
[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: The Communists made the mistake I'm focusing too much whether the worker should own the means of production and not enough on whether they should have control of the means of production
[13:30] herman Bergson: No person lives in a vacuum....hestands on the shoulders of many others
[13:30] Stranger Nightfire: Workers simply became slaves to a government bureaucracy instead of a corporate board of directors
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:31] herman Bergson: YEs, Stranger, pure communism is an historical mistake , counter intuitive and not alinged with human psychology.
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:32] herman Bergson: MAybe it was born out of the frustration of the so much exploited workers
[13:32] herman Bergson: which is understandvle
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): noone want to be exploted ineed
[13:34] Stranger Nightfire: Sad fact is you almost seem to have to go back to hunter gatherer societies define cultures where there's any kind of real equality
[13:35] herman Bergson: Well, next step is to investigate how Marx analyzed the socio-political and economic situation of his time.
[13:35] Stranger Nightfire: As soon as we started owning land planting crop things got screwed up
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: Yes, I would like to understand how her framed the argument.
[13:35] Max Chatnoir: he
[13:35] herman Bergson: YEs, Stranger, that thought crossed my mind also a number of times....how was it in the early beginnings
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah yes
[13:36] herman Bergson: I'll do my best to explain it, Max :-)
[13:37] Stranger Nightfire: Modern Marxists are often looking some kind of rather equitable system based upon worker Co OPS
[13:37] Max Chatnoir: Yes, even early in the agricultural revolution, it must have been complicated, and with the industrial and tech revolutions on top of it....
[13:37] herman Bergson: And I have the support of my AI coach DeepSeek :-)
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ineed Max
[13:39] herman Bergson: Whatever you call it, marxist, socialist, prgroggresive....the big question is: how far are we willing to go to share recources and wealth with each other
[13:40] Max Chatnoir: We might need to ask a slime mold to help us figure it out....
[13:40] herman Bergson: what is that Max????
[13:40] herman Bergson: Slime mold?
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess somewhere someone like got jealous of a neignbour like: " WHY DOES HE GOT MORE GRAIN THEN ME?!"
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): an downhill from there it went
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ik
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): idk
[13:41] Max Chatnoir: slime molds are multicellular or multinucleate creatures that can solve problems.
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:41] herman Bergson: We should put them on our menu!
[13:41] Stranger Nightfire: Actually the idea someone o a piece of the earth was considered sacrilegious by many indigenous people
[13:42] Max Chatnoir: They don't have separate nervous systems, but they sort of act like wandering brains.
[13:43] Max Chatnoir: They're pretty interesting.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): need to check
[13:43] Stranger Nightfire: Would take more than an entire session to begin to explain the slime mold thing
[13:43] Stranger Nightfire: They are one of the most interesting life forms on the planet I think
[13:44] Max Chatnoir: Do look them up. :-)
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): more yak shaving time like with my terrain builing before ㋡
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very tedious but in the end cane out great
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: Can we do a field trip?
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): never hear of these things
[13:45] herman Bergson: Peculiar creature....
[13:45] Max Chatnoir: (not right now, but maybe some time)
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but indee sounds like something u could use for a sci fi game or similar
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:46] Stranger Nightfire: In the virtual world there are some grids They refused to have any kind of economy If you create something you give it away free
[13:46] Stranger Nightfire: There is no currency
[13:48] Stranger Nightfire: and there have been movements in fact with SL That have been harshly critical of the consumerism that goes on there
[13:49] herman Bergson: It keeps SL alive however
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats great
[13:49] Max Chatnoir: But behind every avatar is a real human that has to be fed, etc. somehow.
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the end result is the payment, like if i for ex repair a road my payment is i now have a whole road safe to use for my transport needs
[13:50] herman Bergson: That is a worry for the RL economy, Max
[13:50] herman Bergson: SL has its own economy
[13:51] Stranger Nightfire: A few people around feed their RL avatar With funds that had been gathered by their SL one
[13:51] Max Chatnoir: That, too.
[13:51] herman Bergson: My son did that in the early years of SL
[13:51] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaah like selling stuff on marketplace?
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: Oh, what did he do, Herman?
[13:52] herman Bergson: He really made a lot of money then
[13:52] herman Bergson: Traded and rented land, Max
[13:52] Max Chatnoir: I read that a lot of people did very well doing that. There was something in time magazing, I think.
[13:53] Stranger Nightfire: Yeah the height of the SL Boom That Chinese lady made over $1,000,000 in a single year
[13:53] Max Chatnoir: Wow!
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): wow
[13:53] herman Bergson: yes, was big bussines in those days 2004 - 209
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:54] herman Bergson: Yes, thaat Chinise lady, I rememberI'd say, let's move on to the next lecture and see what Marx can teach us....
[13:54] Max Chatnoir: Yes!
[13:54] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:54] herman Bergson: Time to get reay for Tuesday :-)
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aah
[13:55] herman Bergson: Thank you all again...for your participation
[13:55] herman Bergson: Class dismissed
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes rally icce
[13:55] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice
[13:56] Päivi (nicolesteel): Thank you
[13:56] Max Chatnoir: See you all soon!
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hugs Max
[13:56] bergfrau Apfelbaum: happy weekend!
[13:56] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:56] herman Bergson: ah..yes :-)
[13:57] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki time to rig the card table again?
