Ok, in the discussion after the previous lecture there were some clear calls for more explanation of what it is all about in this project. And that is good. So let's get to work.
The idea that everything is material and that there only exists matter is as old as we know in human history from the moment homo sapiens could read and write. It already started in India some 1500 B.C.
The quintessence is, that homo sapiens has two options: on the one hand to understand the reality, the world he lives in and has to deal with, he relies 100% on his sensory experiences and his common sense.
On the other hand he has the option to invent all kinds of stories, theories, narratives which have no link at ll with his sensory experiences to explain things he does not understand and has no explanation for.
These two approaches to reality are as old as mankind itself and in relation to that mankind always has been divided in these two groups, believers and non believers.
History shows that the believers always have been the majority. I'll leave it to you to think about explanations for that fact. A fact at least is that non believers have often been, if not always, persecuted and exiled or even killed.
Through the centuries, and we might begin with Democritus (c. 480 - 360 BC) philosophers have pondered about what that matter would look like and
how it behaves and how and why we could do without all those fantasies and non empirical explanations.
The fact that they ended up with the idea of small particles, atoms according to Democritus, is on the one hand maybe amazing, but on the other hand so empirical.
Just imagine yourself holding such a beautiful Ancient Greek vase. You drop it, then you start crushing the shards until you're left with nothing but dust. With a little fantasy you can imagine what you are beginning to think and you'll be an atomist in no time.
The idea that matter was composed of small particles has survived, but not within the realm of philosophy. Modern physics has rightfully taken over here completely.
In lecture 1020 we discussed problems we could have with "things" that don't occupy space, like velocity, danger or numbers. That is not such a big issue for philosophy.
The biggest issue from a materialist perspective is the observation that if we assume that our material world is a matter of cause and effect, then we should conclude that our self-awareness is caused by matter.
Everybody will say that he is conscious and self ware, but how much you ever dissect a homo sapiens, nowhere in the body you'll find this self-awareness, or feelings like joy and love, or fear and curiosity.
And that has occupied philosophers for centuries: how can matter create something that apparently is NOT material and if it does that how do the two interact?
Based on all the fantasies I previously mentioned it was easy to fantasize an extra material, a spiritual matter, a soul, something like that. Or we go for the ultimate dualism of Descartes (1596 - 1650) and end up with a body and mind theory.
And that's what I wanted to explain in the last lecture: how far have we come in finding confirmation of materialism as a viable explanation of the human condition?
One thing is clear; the only tool we have to describe our world is language. Words have meanings, but not every word means a concrete material something.
The meaning of the word 'velocity' can be defined by the relation between moving and stationary objects, so it is possible to explain apparently immaterial 'things' like velocity with a materialist context.
It is clear how matter "generates" velocity, but, and here comes the big problem of science and philosophy, it is completely unclear how matter generates the mind.
We know that there is some relation between the brain and the mind and what I plan to do in the coming lectures is to explain how we should interpret that relation from a materialist point of view.
Let's see how far we'll get.......
Thank you for your attention.....
Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
TABLE OF CONTENT -----------------------------------------------------------------
1 - 100 Philosophers 9 May 2009 Start of
2 - 25+ Women Philosophers 10 May 2009 this blog
3 - 25 Adventures in Thinking 10 May 2009
4 - Modern Theories of Ethics 29 Oct 2009
5 - The Ideal State 24 Febr 2010 / 234
6 - The Mystery of the Brain 3 Sept 2010 / 266
7 - The Utopia of the Free Market 16 Febr 2012 / 383
8. - The Aftermath of Neo-liberalism 5 Sept 2012 / 413
9. - The Art Not to Be an Egoist 6 Nov 2012 / 426
10 - Non-Western Philosophy 29 May 2013 / 477
11 - Why Science is Right 2 Sept 2014 / 534
12 - A Philosopher looks at Atheism 1 Jan 2015 / 557
13 - EVIL, a philosophical investigation 17 Apr 2015 / 580
14 - Existentialism and Free Will 2 Sept 2015 / 586
15 - Spinoza 2 Sept 2016 / 615
16 - The Meaning of Life 13 Febr 2017 / 637
17 - In Search of my Self 6 Sept 2017 / 670
18 - The 20th Century Revisited 3 Apr 2018 / 706
19 - The Pessimist 11 Jan 2020 / 819
20 - The Optimist 9 Febr 2020 / 824
21 - Awakening from a Neoliberal Dream 8 Oct 2020 / 872
22 - A World Full of Patterns 1 Apr 2021 / 912
23 - The Concept of Freedom 8 Jan 2022 / 965
24 - Materialism 7 Sept 2022 / 1011
[13:14] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:15] herman Bergson: Kan jij hier brood van bakken Beertje? :-))))
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i say the basic explanation is quite simple. its electrical signals and chemical reactions. How this then work in detail to create our mind and memory is more complex though i guess
[13:15] Al Michigan: but in your saying you used tree different definitions off one thing!
[13:15] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): een beetje
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): Thinks we got that
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it was Tuesday that confused us
[13:15] herman Bergson: I guess it has something to do with electricity indeed
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nerve signals
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and stuff
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and stuff i agree
[13:16] herman Bergson: Does this make it somewhat clearer Gemma?
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same with those attributes, as a programmer and game developer i see a clear analogy
[13:16] herman Bergson: lol... Oh my
[13:16] Al Michigan: geeez, maarre praten we nu over mensen vanaf de dag dat we kunnen lezen wat ze dachten, of over mankind? of over het leven???
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): were does that electricity come from?
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): the new terms were sort of not connected
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when i create game objects i can attach scripts to them and in there variables like weight speed acceleration and such and then do math to make that object behave according to that
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): have ot look at both lectures again when they are on teh blog i think
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): using algorithms
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): simulating physics
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that way
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): physics
[13:17] herman Bergson: the electricity is created by the mitogondrias...or what are the called in our cells, if I am not mistaken.
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Al we are writing here in english
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and the math is same as in real life same formulas i use
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in the game engine as in rl
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well beertje once in a while others do
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): even Herman
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes mitochondria, the power plants in our cells
[13:18] Al Michigan: oh, but he was first speaking about group a, ppl that could writer and share, then he spoke about mankind, and then he spoke about the origens off life! those are 3 different things!
[13:18] herman Bergson: My Dutch remark was just a joke for Beertje
[13:19] Al Michigan: so what group are we discussing?
[13:19] herman Bergson: I speak about a lot of subjects, Al....yes
[13:19] herman Bergson: all these subjects
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the mitochondria is what in the end is responsible for turning the hamburger i just muffled down after my floor ball game into energy so i can recover properly from all running around
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): review of all the past
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): on materialism covered
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so far
[13:19] Al Michigan: the origend off life, till today...
[13:19] herman Bergson: and did it help, Gemma?
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is why i need to see Tuesday and Today together
[13:20] Al Michigan: or off human kind?
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to see the connection being made
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah,
[13:20] herman Bergson: Ahh...didn't post Tuesday's lecture yet
[13:20] herman Bergson: will do it tomorrow
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i know
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): good
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): homework
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): read Tuesday and today Al
[13:20] herman Bergson: you got a whole weekend :-))
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): might help
[13:20] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I hope
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): we need a whole weekend to read it
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right!
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:21] herman Bergson: Our big problem of the moment is the body an the mind
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it is
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): real touchable and not
[13:22] herman Bergson: matter as such isn't interesting for philosophers...that is the playground of physicists now
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: but don't they continue to overlap?
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) whispers: because of the new findings?
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep. Like the LHC is getting busy again right now with that
[13:22] Al Michigan: gemma tuesday is not on the net yet.
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): as well as other sciences
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I know al
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): tomorrow check
[13:22] herman Bergson: on the other hand....we can not define matter in such a strict way as claiming that it should be visible and touchable before we say it exists
[13:23] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is very true
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:23] Darks Adria is offline.
[13:23] Al Michigan: but if it is not important how the effect started anyway, only the reason and the way it developed is interesting.
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yet we have tons of words that refer to matters of which we claim that they are real and exist
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): my explanations using chemistry electricity and game dev math is the simple picture but i guess its more complex if u go into the details, but thats the analogy i see easy to use
[13:24] herman Bergson: All our emotions and feelings for instance, our thoughts
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes how does electrical impulses and chemistry create this in the end?
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats where it gets tricky
[13:24] herman Bergson: right Bejiita
[13:24] Al Michigan: but it is not important how that happened , right, mr bergson?
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i cant simulate that in Unreal 5 and Unity
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): so do many of the new philosophers dig into science to connect it somehow?
[13:25] herman Bergson: How it happens is in fact a scientific question not a philosophical one....
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i guess
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): wow
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma, neurobiology is an interesting partner
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shall have to look up on that
[13:27] herman Bergson: The problem is....even when the biological creation of the mind by the brain is a scientific one....science hasn't a clue how to answer the question....
[13:27] herman Bergson: that is where philosophy comes in
[13:27] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sounds circular
[13:27] herman Bergson: in what way Gemma
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmmm
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): recursion
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sort of,
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): science takes a philosophical issue discovers something new and then after getting to a certain point philosophers take another look at it
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or venn diagram maybe
[13:29] herman Bergson: let me put it this way....an example......
[13:29] herman Bergson: big philosophical question.....WHAT CAN WE KNOW?
[13:29] herman Bergson: For a long time philosophers debated this question.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: knowledge comes from god....comes from the senses, comes from revelations...etc....
[13:30] herman Bergson: eventually those who chose for the senses, the empiricists set the scientists on the right track
[[13:31] herman Bergson: The astronomers began to SEE that the universe was heliocentric....knowledge didn't come from the bible bot from observation
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): true
[13:32] herman Bergson: the choice for observation lead to experimentation instead of blind belief in all kinds of unobservable sources of knowledge
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): we can predict stuff with math and observe with testing ect, wel known exaple is the higgs boson
[13:32] herman Bergson: this lead to the scientific method as developed by the philosophers of logical positivism
[13:33] herman Bergson: and today this is common practice....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or using huge telescopes like webb and hubble
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): science takes a philosophical issue discovers something new and then after getting to a certain point philosophers take another look at it
[13:33] herman Bergson: whatever Bejiita....
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is what i meant by circular
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa i see
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well thats true I guess
[13:33] herman Bergson: that is not how it works Gemma....
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but you just said it
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or i don't know
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its complicated
[13:34] herman Bergson: Philosophers have a certain view....scientist take over and thus a philosophical question disappears in science, just as Bertrand Russell says
[13:35] herman Bergson: Like the ideas about natter....Democritus thought of atoms, Leibniz had his monads....but now science has taken over and we have higgs , muons bosons etc :-)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:36] herman Bergson: Today philosophers AND neuroscientists debate about mental phenomena
[13:36] herman Bergson: the only thing we know is that there is a connection between the material brain and our thoughts and feelings
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and you don't think that the more the scientists discover that the philosophers will not "update" their thinking?
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): of expression of it?
[13:37] Anuska (anuska.loon) is offline.
[13:37] herman Bergson: No...as I said...as soon as science has a plausible interpretation of reality in these matters, it stops being a philosophical issue
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:38] herman Bergson: for instance.....
[13:38] herman Bergson: area X in the brain lights up
[13:38] herman Bergson: but one person says I feel joy
[13:38] herman Bergson: another says I feel sadness
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for same signal detected?
[13:39] herman Bergson: so.this brain area seems to be related to two opposite feelings.....
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): however can we read them out or just detect that they are there like signal or no signal?
[13:40] herman Bergson: What is see is a correlation...but that brain area lighting is NOT the feeling
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): can we interpret them like data with our tech = mind reading
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): got that yes
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its just signal present at that place i guess,
[13:41] herman Bergson: so, we can talk about the neurobiology of the brain and we can talk about our thoughts and feelings.....
[13:41] herman Bergson: but we are in that respect not simply our brain
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): is it for ex possible to say control a computer with our mind with the tech we have today, to do that u need to be able to interpret the signals meaning
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok got that
[13:42] herman Bergson: but what we are "more" that is our philosophical question here
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:42] herman Bergson: thow in a soul, or a spiritual body and the problem is solved....:-)
[13:43] herman Bergson: but not fro a materialist
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): of course not
[13:44] herman Bergson: So, I hope I can help you figure out how a materialist could at least understand and clarify this big issue
[13:44] Darks Adria is offline.
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we shall see
[13:44] herman Bergson: My idea Gemma ^_^
[13:44] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fingers crossed
[13:44] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-)
[13:44] herman Bergson: we'll need that ^_^
[13:45] Lyghts Frua is online.
[13:45] herman Bergson: But you better first enjoy your weekend and relax :-))
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh after i read
[13:45] herman Bergson: So thank you all again.....
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:45] herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ㋡
[13:45] bergfrau Apfelbaum: you too Herman! Thank you Herman and class
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
[13:45] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I'm Sorry! i mssed golf
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:45] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): got called to a meeting as usual
[13:46] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes we missed you:-)
[13:46] herman Bergson: We missed you, you mean :-))
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (hugs gemma)
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): mmm
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ah well
[13:46] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): next week
[13:46] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yay
