Tuesday, March 31, 2020

838: A Disappointment....

And now the big disappointment. Man also has a cruel, evil side. 
Homo Sapiens does terrible things that don't even occur in the rest of the animal kingdom. 
Chicken do not organize penal camps. Crocodiles do not build gas chambers. Never has an elephant thought to register, lock up and exterminate another people. 
We are talking here about typical human crimes. Homo Sapiens is not only extremely social, but can also be exceptionally cruel. 
It seems we have to come to a painful conclusion. "The mechanism that makes us the nicest species," writes Brian Hare, "has also turned us into the cruelest species on the planet." 
Brian Hare is a professor of evolutionary anthropology at Duke University. 
He researches the evolution of cognition by studying both humans, our close relatives the primates, and species whose cognition converged with our own. 
Humans are group animals with a fatal disability. We are most attracted to those who look like us the most .That instinct also seems to be anchored in our bodies.
Initially there was a lot of enthusiasm when biologists discovered that the hormone 'oxytocin' plays a crucial role in love. 
Spray a little oxytocin in the nose of your date and you can have a really nice evening.
Or even  a better idea: let the government spay this oxytocin from helicopters on the towns, on masses of people.
The hormone oxytocin (the "cuddle hormone") makes you softer and sweeter, more quiet and  peaceful. That would be the ultimate Flower Power experience.
But the shock came in 2010. The magazine "Science" (vol. 328, issue 5984) published an article of Carsten De Dreu.
He (born 6 July 1966) is a Professor of Psychology at Leiden University and Behavioral Economics at the University of Amsterdam.
He works at the intersection of social psychology, (neuro)biology, and behavioral economics.   
Research has shown that the effect of oxytocin is often limited to our own group. 
While it increases love for our own friends, it can actually strengthen our aversion to strangers.
Oxytocin is not the hormone of universal brotherhood.       , but of "own people first".
There goes the friendly "Homo sapiens" down the drain. Was Thomas Hobbes right after all? 
Did we start with a war of all against all in prehistoric times? Not a war among friends, but war against enemies.
For the theory, that Homo Sapiens had caused the extinction of the Neanderthals, is no archeological evidence, but for violence among each other all the more.
Our starting point was that most people are OK. Are we mistaken? Are we that Killer Ape after all.
Apparently the fight between Hobbes and Rousseau is still on. We had good hopes, that Rousseau had won, but now......
I see you next lecture...   Don't give up :-)
Thank you for your attention again....

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019

The Discussion

[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:16] Windows Bhalti: thank you, professor
[13:16] herman Bergson: The floor is yours....:-)
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): last lecture I was optimistic....
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but now I'm not sure
[13:17] herman Bergson: I have been thinking of you Beertje writing this lecture ^_^
[13:17] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): omg
[13:17] herman Bergson: I mean...I expected a kind of reaction from you like this...
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): you know me too well....
[13:18] herman Bergson: That is why  I said....don't give up :-)
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:18] herman Bergson: where there is time there is hope....
[13:18] CB Axel: So I'm not the only pessimist in the group?
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I'm an open book:)
[13:18] herman Bergson: and next time ...who knows :-)
[13:20] herman Bergson: Yes CB, you give me  a hard time.....but maybe I can make you change your mind :-)
[13:20] CB Axel: You haven't so far. :)
[13:20] herman Bergson: But it is a fact.....we have to face this dark side of homo sapiens
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): every coin has 2 sides
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): even Homo Sapiens
[13:21] Windows Bhalti: attach feelings to facts?
[13:21] herman Bergson: I know, but I won't give up :-)
[13:21] herman Bergson: What do you mean Windows?
[13:22] Windows Bhalti: are pessimism and optimism feelings
[13:22] herman Bergson: I'd say, not just feelings....
[13:22] CB Axel: They are not facts.
[13:22] herman Bergson: it is your perception of reality
[13:23] Windows Bhalti: then the facts presented in the lecture today are therefore, emotionless
[13:23] herman Bergson: and the conclusions you deduce from this perception
[13:23] herman Bergson: as such, yes I would say
[13:24] Windows Bhalti: nods
[13:24] CB Axel: What facts? The only fact mentioned was that oxytocin makes people attracted to others like themselves.
[13:24] herman Bergson: homo sapiens built the gas chambers...whatever emotion you'd like to link with that observation
[13:25] Windows Bhalti: two facts were presented:  the other was that oxytocin make people kill those unlike themselves
[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes the other fact was the discovery of oxytocin
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so 3 facts
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I thought it  only made u feel good
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but I don't now all facts
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): about the stuf
[13:26] CB Axel: He didn't say that oxytocin makes people kill others.
[13:26] herman Bergson: yes...with respect to your friends Bejiita....
[13:26] herman Bergson: no...it might create strong aversion to strangers....
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like hug me = I feel good, is that a direct effect of that chemical?
[13:27] herman Bergson: When you hug your brain produces this oxytocin and serotonin...
[13:27] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah'
[13:27] CB Axel: I see only two facts, I guess. 1) there is a hormone called oxytocin and 2) it attracts us to others like ourselves.
[13:27] herman Bergson: and that makes you feel good :-)
[13:28] herman Bergson: true
[13:28] herman Bergson: third fact...
[13:28] CB Axel: So, Herman, you have to like a person well enough to hug them to produce oxytocin?
[13:28] herman Bergson: it is NOT a universal attraction to all of mankind...
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): are people going to be more pessimistic these days, because they can't hug eachothers because of Corona?
[13:28] herman Bergson: it even stimulates aversion  to  people who don't belong to our group
[13:29] herman Bergson: pessimistic....?
[13:29] herman Bergson: sad maybe....
[13:29] herman Bergson: I relate concepts like pessimism and  optimism with a timeline....
[13:30] herman Bergson: there are concepts which tell about your perspective
[13:30] herman Bergson: you say.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: it is getting darker or it is getting lighter....
[13:31] herman Bergson: like the glass is half empty or half full...though you'll drink the same amount of water
[13:32] herman Bergson: I'd like to advise you  to stay optimistic :-)
[13:32] Windows Bhalti: the strength of the aversion equates to the strength of the action
[13:32] herman Bergson: you could say that, yes
[13:32] Windows Bhalti: nods
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:33] herman Bergson: eventually it could lead to murder or lynching
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): or war
[13:33] herman Bergson: yes
[13:33] Windows Bhalti: ...so ...killing
[13:34] herman Bergson smiles
[13:34] Windows Bhalti: grins
[13:34] herman Bergson: Guess it will be quit a  job to get the optimism back here ^_^
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): I think so too:)
[13:35] herman Bergson: Ok...
[13:36] herman Bergson: Let's leave the question "Is Homo sapiens in fact a Killer Ape" dangle as the sword of Damocles above our heads :-)
[13:36] Windows Bhalti: to be or not to be
[13:36] herman Bergson: right :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that's the question:)
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed'
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): going to be a hard week-end
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): with that sword above my head
[13:37] herman Bergson: Well...let's see next Tuesday how the story will continue :-)
[13:38] herman Bergson: Thank you for your participation again :-)
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman
[13:38] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ....
[13:38] Windows Bhalti: thank you, professor.  thank you, everyone.  take care, all
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again
[13:38] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman. See you all next week. :)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:38] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Windows
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:38] herman Bergson: Be well CB
[13:38] herman Bergson: and Windows
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): at 10 again
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hugs all
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

Monday, March 23, 2020

837: Therefor us part 2 .... an answer

It is about 1958, that a Russian geneticist , Dmitri Beljajev (1917 - 1985), begins an experiment.
A century earlier Charles Darwin already had noticed that domesticated animals showed remarkable resemblances.
They were smaller than their wild ancestors. They had smaller brains and teeth, floppy ears, curled tails, white spots in their fur.

The domesticated animals kept their juvenile looks also after their childhood. 

Beljajev had a radical hypothesis. These puppy like, juvenile features were only a by-product of something else.
For centuries the domesticated animals were  bred on one specific trait: friendliness towards humans.
As a test he began breading with a very aggressive animal: the silver fox. The goal: to turn it into a friendly doglike companion of humans.
To achieve this on the fox farm he tested every fox on aggressiveness. Showed a fox less aggression, then it was selected for further breading.
So it was, that selecting for a single behavioral characteristic (friendliness), allowing only the tamest, least fearful individuals to breed, 
resulted in changes not only in behavior, but also in anatomical and physiological changes that were not directly manipulated. 
The physiological changes  showed up also in the hormone balance of the foxes. 
The friendly foxes produced much less adrenaline and more serotonin (happiness hormone) and oxytocin (cuddle hormone).
What could count for silver foxes.....why couldn't it apply to Homo sapiens and his evolutionary history?
Belyayev suspected that we are domestic monkeys. In other words, he suspected that the friendliest people had the most children for tens of thousands of years.
So it is not like Richard Dawkins assumed the survival of the most selfish gene, but the survival of the friendliest, which was the driving force of human evolution.
In 2014 a team of American scientists compared  the humanoid skulls of the past 200.000 years.
It showed the same pattern as with the foxes: our faces and bodies became softer,  more juvenile. Our brain decreased a 10%. Our teeth and jawbones became smaller.
A remarkable fact is that the appearance of homo sapiens really fast began to change on the moment that the Neanderthals disappeared.
How could homo sapiens conquer the world?
His body became weaker, his brain became smaller.
For an answer we have to go to professor Brian Hare. He is a professor of evolutionary anthropology at Duke University. He researches the evolution of cognition 
by studying both humans, our close relatives the primates, and species whose cognition converged with our own.
What he discovered, explains some more about the fact that most people are OK.
Next lecture will be about what makes us even more human than only our friendliness.....
Thank you for your attention again...

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019

The Discussion

[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): always believed smaller brains were better
[13:25] herman Bergson: As you see....a completely different interpretation of human evolution
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): read that somewhere when I was studying
[13:25] herman Bergson: Interesting...
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:26] herman Bergson: The theory sounds very plausible
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:26] herman Bergson: Groups would expel the nasty and mean members and bread with the sweet ones...:-)
[13:27] herman Bergson: Interesting thing was also that the foxes began to bark like dogs, though they never had contact with dogs
[13:27] herman Bergson: waging tailes too
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ha
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well dogs are from wolves
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): family
[13:28] CB Axel: But not from foxes
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no
[13:28] herman Bergson: the main point here is that the individuals are selected for breading on only one feature
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed foxes bark, they don't have an unknown unheard sound like Ylvis song "What does the fox say" suggests
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): breeding
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I've heard it
[13:29] CB Axel: I'm surprised that dogs and foxes could breed.
[13:29] herman Bergson: and that other behavioral and physiological features began to change spontaneously
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): they make so little noise ... tho
[13:29] CB Axel: And that their offspring weren't sterile.
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes thats true
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): been standign near them  and they just dont talk much
[13:29] herman Bergson: Seems there is a couple of these foxes in the zoo of Austin...?
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I've seen a dog and fox be best friends on Youtube and Facebook but that they are breed compatible I did not know
[13:30] herman Bergson: That doesn't need to be the case Bejiita
[13:31] herman Bergson: Point is that friendly foxes deliver friendly offspring
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its in the genetics
[13:31] herman Bergson: If you combine that thought with 50.000 years of human evolution
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[13:32] CB Axel: How does this explain xenophobia and bigotry?
[13:32] CB Axel: Those people don't seem very friendly.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Beljajev bred  controlled....he changed the animals within 50 generations....consciously selecting...
[13:32] CB Axel: And they seem to breed just fine.
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thoughts of being the best!! and congregating
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I think
[13:33] CB Axel: They keep breeding rotten, bigoted kids. :(
[13:33] herman Bergson: You must keep one thing in Mind, CB.....
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not even parents fault sometimes i think
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes some but not all
[13:33] Rebecca (rebecca.rozen) is offline.
[13:33] herman Bergson: Our consciousness may have been a by product of our evolutionary selective behavior....
[13:33] herman Bergson: but after that...
[13:34] herman Bergson: at this moment we also have created culture
[13:34] herman Bergson: ways of organizing our society.....
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes true
[13:34] herman Bergson: and our way of thinking.....
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and tribes
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): with different goals
[13:35] herman Bergson: especially the simplistic WE - THEM , black/white, pro/against way of thinking
[13:35] herman Bergson: and thence tribes indeed GEmma
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i was listening to someone on npr talk about black turning to white over the ages
[13:35] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): suggers change from all meat eating
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to moving north and becoming berry eater etc
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): much less meat
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): was part of it
[13:36] CB Axel: That seems odd, too.
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not just the sunlight
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): most interestig
[13:37] herman Bergson: Well...if we originated from Africa, you might expect us to be black instead of white indeed
[13:37] CB Axel: I would have thought people moving north would eat more meat since it's available year round.
[13:37] CB Axel: Berries and such only grows in the summer.
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no because we left and moved north
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some that is
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): black to begin with
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): then gradually changing
[13:37] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and look at the middle east
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that color
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): inbetween
[13:38] herman Bergson: but that applies only to Europeans....
[13:38] herman Bergson: Asians still kept a color
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ys
[13:38] CB Axel: Not northern asians.
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but they moved that way and suffered different environments
[13:38] CB Axel: Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, etc aren't black.
[13:38] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): right
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): all in between
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): some lighter then others
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): makes for interesting thinking
[13:39] CB Axel: Humans have a lovely variety of colors from black to brown to varying shades of white.
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa indeed
[13:39] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): also mixing of tribes
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:39] herman Bergson: At least it makes it unlikely that homo sapiens commited genocide on the Neanderthals
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hopes not
[13:40] herman Bergson: As I said in the previous lecture....there is no archeological evidence
[13:40] herman Bergson: Next lecture I'll come up with another explanation
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:41] herman Bergson: which is also quite plausible
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok
[13:41] oola Neruda is online.
[13:41] herman Bergson: which means we are done for today then :-))
[13:41] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:41] herman Bergson: Thank you all again :-)
[13:41] herman Bergson: Class dismissed
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): loool
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just had to
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i a working from home now so will try for tuesday
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa look forward to next time
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): unless i am on a conference
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): conference
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): sigh
[13:42] herman Bergson: WHO THREW THAT TOILET PAPER!!!!???
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): not me
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (whistles innocently)
[13:42] herman Bergson grins
[13:42] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): but i could
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just a little salute
[13:42] CB Axel: LOL, Bejiita.
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok!!
[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class!
[13:43] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye for now
[13:43] CB Axel: Interesting topic today. I'll be thinking about until I see you all on Tuesday.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:43] CB Axel: Bye, everyone.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting again
[13:43] herman Bergson: Good luck for Tuesday Gemma
[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: see you next week!
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):

Thursday, March 19, 2020

836: Therefor us.....part 1

Today we'll try  to find an answer to the question WHY US?
About 50.000 years ago homo sapiens wasn't the only humanoid primate on this earth.  
Homo floresiensis, Homo luzonensis, Homo denisova and Homo neanderthalensis were there too.
They were all human  such as the bullfinch, the hawfinch and the bullfinch all are all finches.
We know a lot about the Neanderthals. They were much stronger than Homo sapiens. They had a bigger brain too
Year after year scientists learn more about Neanderthals and almost always conclude that they were highly intelligent. 
They could cook. They made fire, clothing, musical instruments, jewelry, cave paintings. 
There is even evidence that we have copied things from the Neanderthals, such as certain stone tools or perhaps even burying the dead.
If these are the facts, it makes the mystery only bigger. Why did this strong individuals become extinct.
They survived for at least a 200.000 years, but when Homo sapiens appeared, the neanderthals didn't last long.
Are we facing here the first genocide in history. Did Homo sapiens kill his fellow humanoids? The Israelian historian Yuval Noah Harari says so in his book "Sapiens" (2011).
-QUOTE- (...) if the Neanderthals, Denisovans and other human species didn't merge with Sapiens, why did they vanish? 
One possibility is that Homo sapiens drove them to extinction. Imagine a Sapiens band acting a Balkan valley where Neanderthals had lived for hundreds of thousands of years. 
The newcomers began to hunt the deer and gather the nuts and berries that were the Neanderthals’ traditional staples.  
Sapiens were more proficient hunters and gatherers - thanks to better technology and superior social skills - so they multiplied and spread. 

The less resourceful Neanderthals found it increasingly difficult to feed themselves. 
Their population dwindled and they died out, except perhaps for one or two members who joined their Sapiens neighbours. 
Another possibility is that competition for resources flared up into violence and genocide. Tolerance is not a Sapiens trademark.   
In modem times, a small difference in skin colour, dialect or religion has been enough to prompt one group of Sapiens to set about exterminating another group. -END QUOTE-
The most striking in this narrative of "Sapiens: A brief history of humankind" is how Harari pictures man;
we are greedy, selfish gluttons or, even worse, intolerant mass murderers. In other words, deep down inside man is a bad mean machine.
Is this really what has happened to the Neanderthals? Did Homo sapiens do this to the Neanderthals?
We are perhaps easily willing to agree with Harari's interpretation of history, but there is one serious problem,
There is no archeological evidence at all for this genocide theory. There were never found mass graves, for instance. 
It is much more probable, that Homo Sapiens was much better prepared for the harsh climate of the last ice age, lasting 115.000 to 15.000 years ago.

There is another explanation for our survival, which is supported by evolutionary evidence and which claims,
that we weren't the prehistoric bad guys, but that also in those days most of us were OK.
In the next lecture the explanation why we are who we are.
Thank you for your attention.....

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019

The Discussion

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:28] herman Bergson: ok...is a clif hanger....explanation next time ^_^
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): homo computerus
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe the neandertaler mixed with the homo sapiens
[13:29] herman Bergson: What I find most interesting is that Harari depicts man traditionally as the bad guy
[13:29] herman Bergson: They mixed with homo sapiens, Beertje....there is DNA proof of that
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they could learn from each other
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:30] herman Bergson: that is the most interesting matter, Beertje.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: The question.....WHY didn't they learn from each other....
[13:31] herman Bergson: Homo sapiens did learn from the Neanderthals...but probably not visa versa
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why not?
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if they mixed they go further as one
[13:31] herman Bergson: For that is and explanation....in the next lecture I'll tell you ^_^
[13:32] herman Bergson: The explanation is really amazing....and plausible
[13:32] CB Axel: Maybe the Neanderthals were the bad guys and didn't think they could learn from Sapiens.
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): could the Neanderthal talk?
[13:32] herman Bergson: we don't know
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bergie:)))
[13:33] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hi all and SORRY
[13:33] herman Bergson: Ahh you brought your toilet paper Bergie? ^_^
[13:33] CB Axel: The Neaderthals didn't like us so they turned their backs to us and we learned from them but they didn't learn from us. :)
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wow
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that chimp
[13:33] CB Axel: Hi, Bergie.
[13:33] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes herman lol
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:34] herman Bergson: It may have been that way, CB
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so cute:)))
[13:34] theo Velde is online.
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:34] CB Axel: That's  what building walls gets you.
[13:34] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i thought last week was an hour earlier ...
[13:34] herman Bergson: And don't forget my remark that homo sapiens was better prepared for surviving an ice age...
[13:35] herman Bergson: For that theere also is an explanation....(next lecture ^_^)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (picks lil monkey up and give him a hug)
[13:35] CB Axel: OK. I'll stop speculating. :)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:36] CB Axel: That's not a monkey. That's an ape. :)
[13:36] herman Bergson: You were on the right track, more or less CB :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is the difference CB?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:36] CB Axel: Apes don't have tails, mostly.
[13:36] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-) a chimpanzee baby
[13:37] herman Bergson: Interesting...indeed an issue...ape with and ape with tail :-)
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in Sweden its "apa" for both of them
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like ape
[13:37] herman Bergson: Never thought about it :-))
[13:38] herman Bergson: So monkeys have tails and apes don't, CB?
[13:38] CB Axel: I'm sure there are other differences, but there's another group I hang out with where I'm known for being of a stickler for not calling apes monkeys. :)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so I just thought was the same jut another word
[13:38] CB Axel: For the most part, yes. I think apes are considered farther up the evolutionary tree. Humans are apes.
[13:38] herman Bergson: what is a stickler?
[13:39] CB Axel: A stickler is someone who insists on correctness.
[13:39] CB Axel: Picky
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):
[13:39] CB Axel: A pain in the butt. lol
[13:39] herman Bergson: That's what I was thinking.....we descend from apes not from monkeys :-))
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):
[13:39] CB Axel: Yes, but apes and monkeys, I believe, descended from a common ancestor.
[13:40] CB Axel: I could be wrong about that, though.
[13:40] CB Axel: I'd have to look it up.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what we in sweden call "petimäter"
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): petig = picky
[13:41] herman Bergson: It's good to be a stickler....to show principles :-)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like for those standards I whowed an example of, however in that case was HUGE difference on the other hand
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:41] CB Axel: I may have to make a group tag calling me a petimäter. :)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with me and the CNC machine
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I think its spelled like that
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with ä
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but its a rare word nowadays
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): u never hear it
[13:42] herman Bergson: sound like French.... a petit matiere :-)
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:42] herman Bergson: a small thing
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess same origin
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): petig = caring for the small details and petit = small
[13:43] herman Bergson: interesting.....
[13:43] CB Axel: Etymology: The word comes from French petit-maître  ("little gentleman") - and initially meant a snob .
[13:43] CB Axel: That was from Wikipedia.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa ok
[13:43] herman Bergson: We'll end our discussion with a course in etymology :-)
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:43] CB Axel: LOL
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats interesting as well
[13:44] CB Axel: And animal classification, too.
[13:44] herman Bergson: Well...Descartes went to Sweden...maybe he brought the word 'petit' to Sweden :-)
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): maybe
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:44] herman Bergson: was 1649 :-)
[13:45] CB Axel: One thing I like about English is how we steal words from all other languages. :)
[13:45] herman Bergson: Well...let's prepare for the lecture of Thursday....where you will be confronted with new positive insights regarding homo sapiens :-)
[13:45] herman Bergson: Have you ever seen Spanish, CB....
[13:46] herman Bergson: IF you want to know what stealing is :-)
[13:46] CB Axel: Positive thought like, well at least we're not as xenophobic as those Neaderthals?
[13:46] herman Bergson: I don't know who stole from whom :-)
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Japanese steal a lot of words from english but it don't look proper
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): computer = com pu tah
[13:46] CB Axel: Who do the Spanish steal from?
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it looks and sounds made up, not a real japanese word
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just a cunstruct
[13:47] herman Bergson: They know and use katakana  for writing those words, Bejiita....so you can see that it is a stolen word
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes kata is for those words
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:48] herman Bergson: They'll never would write the word 'computa' in hiragana....
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nope
[13:48] herman Bergson: But I guess we are a little of topic of today ^_^
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as it should be at the end
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): tradition
[13:49] herman Bergson: So ...time to thank you all again...I enjoyed your participation :-)
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was nice
[13:49] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fun
[13:49] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ....
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): nice class
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok ill cu thursday then
[13:49] CB Axel: I always enjoy the discussions here. :)
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty Herman and class:-) ... Time passed quickly today (lol)
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): for us too Bergie
[13:50] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie...the clock was faster than you today :-))
[13:50] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is online.
[13:50] CB Axel: I have to hurry away. I'll see you all Thursday.
[13:50] CB Axel: Bye
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): back to chasing code bugs in Godot and add some new features

[13:50] herman Bergson: Bye CB