Thursday, March 19, 2020

836: Therefor us.....part 1

Today we'll try  to find an answer to the question WHY US?
About 50.000 years ago homo sapiens wasn't the only humanoid primate on this earth.  
Homo floresiensis, Homo luzonensis, Homo denisova and Homo neanderthalensis were there too.
They were all human  such as the bullfinch, the hawfinch and the bullfinch all are all finches.
We know a lot about the Neanderthals. They were much stronger than Homo sapiens. They had a bigger brain too
Year after year scientists learn more about Neanderthals and almost always conclude that they were highly intelligent. 
They could cook. They made fire, clothing, musical instruments, jewelry, cave paintings. 
There is even evidence that we have copied things from the Neanderthals, such as certain stone tools or perhaps even burying the dead.
If these are the facts, it makes the mystery only bigger. Why did this strong individuals become extinct.
They survived for at least a 200.000 years, but when Homo sapiens appeared, the neanderthals didn't last long.
Are we facing here the first genocide in history. Did Homo sapiens kill his fellow humanoids? The Israelian historian Yuval Noah Harari says so in his book "Sapiens" (2011).
-QUOTE- (...) if the Neanderthals, Denisovans and other human species didn't merge with Sapiens, why did they vanish? 
One possibility is that Homo sapiens drove them to extinction. Imagine a Sapiens band acting a Balkan valley where Neanderthals had lived for hundreds of thousands of years. 
The newcomers began to hunt the deer and gather the nuts and berries that were the Neanderthals’ traditional staples.  
Sapiens were more proficient hunters and gatherers - thanks to better technology and superior social skills - so they multiplied and spread. 

The less resourceful Neanderthals found it increasingly difficult to feed themselves. 
Their population dwindled and they died out, except perhaps for one or two members who joined their Sapiens neighbours. 
Another possibility is that competition for resources flared up into violence and genocide. Tolerance is not a Sapiens trademark.   
In modem times, a small difference in skin colour, dialect or religion has been enough to prompt one group of Sapiens to set about exterminating another group. -END QUOTE-
The most striking in this narrative of "Sapiens: A brief history of humankind" is how Harari pictures man;
we are greedy, selfish gluttons or, even worse, intolerant mass murderers. In other words, deep down inside man is a bad mean machine.
Is this really what has happened to the Neanderthals? Did Homo sapiens do this to the Neanderthals?
We are perhaps easily willing to agree with Harari's interpretation of history, but there is one serious problem,
There is no archeological evidence at all for this genocide theory. There were never found mass graves, for instance. 
It is much more probable, that Homo Sapiens was much better prepared for the harsh climate of the last ice age, lasting 115.000 to 15.000 years ago.

There is another explanation for our survival, which is supported by evolutionary evidence and which claims,
that we weren't the prehistoric bad guys, but that also in those days most of us were OK.
In the next lecture the explanation why we are who we are.
Thank you for your attention.....

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019

The Discussion

[13:27] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:28] herman Bergson: a clif hanger....explanation next time ^_^
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): homo computerus
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): maybe the neandertaler mixed with the homo sapiens
[13:29] herman Bergson: What I find most interesting is that Harari depicts man traditionally as the bad guy
[13:29] herman Bergson: They mixed with homo sapiens, Beertje....there is DNA proof of that
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): they could learn from each other
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:30] herman Bergson: that is the most interesting matter, Beertje.....
[13:30] herman Bergson: The question.....WHY didn't they learn from each other....
[13:31] herman Bergson: Homo sapiens did learn from the Neanderthals...but probably not visa versa
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): why not?
[13:31] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if they mixed they go further as one
[13:31] herman Bergson: For that is and the next lecture I'll tell you ^_^
[13:32] herman Bergson: The explanation is really amazing....and plausible
[13:32] CB Axel: Maybe the Neanderthals were the bad guys and didn't think they could learn from Sapiens.
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): could the Neanderthal talk?
[13:32] herman Bergson: we don't know
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Bergie:)))
[13:33] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hi all and SORRY
[13:33] herman Bergson: Ahh you brought your toilet paper Bergie? ^_^
[13:33] CB Axel: The Neaderthals didn't like us so they turned their backs to us and we learned from them but they didn't learn from us. :)
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wow
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that chimp
[13:33] CB Axel: Hi, Bergie.
[13:33] bergfrau Apfelbaum: yes herman lol
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:34] herman Bergson: It may have been that way, CB
[13:34] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): so cute:)))
[13:34] theo Velde is online.
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:34] CB Axel: That's  what building walls gets you.
[13:34] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i thought last week was an hour earlier ...
[13:34] herman Bergson: And don't forget my remark that homo sapiens was better prepared for surviving an ice age...
[13:35] herman Bergson: For that theere also is an explanation....(next lecture ^_^)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (picks lil monkey up and give him a hug)
[13:35] CB Axel: OK. I'll stop speculating. :)
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:36] CB Axel: That's not a monkey. That's an ape. :)
[13:36] herman Bergson: You were on the right track, more or less CB :-)
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what is the difference CB?
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:36] CB Axel: Apes don't have tails, mostly.
[13:36] bergfrau Apfelbaum: :-) a chimpanzee baby
[13:37] herman Bergson: Interesting...indeed an issue...ape with and ape with tail :-)
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): in Sweden its "apa" for both of them
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like ape
[13:37] herman Bergson: Never thought about it :-))
[13:38] herman Bergson: So monkeys have tails and apes don't, CB?
[13:38] CB Axel: I'm sure there are other differences, but there's another group I hang out with where I'm known for being of a stickler for not calling apes monkeys. :)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so I just thought was the same jut another word
[13:38] CB Axel: For the most part, yes. I think apes are considered farther up the evolutionary tree. Humans are apes.
[13:38] herman Bergson: what is a stickler?
[13:39] CB Axel: A stickler is someone who insists on correctness.
[13:39] CB Axel: Picky
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):
[13:39] CB Axel: A pain in the butt. lol
[13:39] herman Bergson: That's what I was thinking.....we descend from apes not from monkeys :-))
[13:39] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont):
[13:39] CB Axel: Yes, but apes and monkeys, I believe, descended from a common ancestor.
[13:40] CB Axel: I could be wrong about that, though.
[13:40] CB Axel: I'd have to look it up.
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): what we in sweden call "petimäter"
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): petig = picky
[13:41] herman Bergson: It's good to be a show principles :-)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): like for those standards I whowed an example of, however in that case was HUGE difference on the other hand
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:41] CB Axel: I may have to make a group tag calling me a petimäter. :)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with me and the CNC machine
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I think its spelled like that
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): with ä
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but its a rare word nowadays
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): u never hear it
[13:42] herman Bergson: sound like French.... a petit matiere :-)
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:42] herman Bergson: a small thing
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess same origin
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): petig = caring for the small details and petit = small
[13:43] herman Bergson: interesting.....
[13:43] CB Axel: Etymology: The word comes from French petit-maître  ("little gentleman") - and initially meant a snob .
[13:43] CB Axel: That was from Wikipedia.
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa ok
[13:43] herman Bergson: We'll end our discussion with a course in etymology :-)
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:43] CB Axel: LOL
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats interesting as well
[13:44] CB Axel: And animal classification, too.
[13:44] herman Bergson: Well...Descartes went to Sweden...maybe he brought the word 'petit' to Sweden :-)
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yep
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): maybe
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:44] herman Bergson: was 1649 :-)
[13:45] CB Axel: One thing I like about English is how we steal words from all other languages. :)
[13:45] herman Bergson: Well...let's prepare for the lecture of Thursday....where you will be confronted with new positive insights regarding homo sapiens :-)
[13:45] herman Bergson: Have you ever seen Spanish, CB....
[13:46] herman Bergson: IF you want to know what stealing is :-)
[13:46] CB Axel: Positive thought like, well at least we're not as xenophobic as those Neaderthals?
[13:46] herman Bergson: I don't know who stole from whom :-)
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Japanese steal a lot of words from english but it don't look proper
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): computer = com pu tah
[13:46] CB Axel: Who do the Spanish steal from?
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): it looks and sounds made up, not a real japanese word
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just a cunstruct
[13:47] herman Bergson: They know and use katakana  for writing those words, you can see that it is a stolen word
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): yes kata is for those words
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:48] herman Bergson: They'll never would write the word 'computa' in hiragana....
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nope
[13:48] herman Bergson: But I guess we are a little of topic of today ^_^
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as it should be at the end
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): tradition
[13:49] herman Bergson: So ...time to thank you all again...I enjoyed your participation :-)
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): was nice
[13:49] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): fun
[13:49] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ....
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:49] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): nice class
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ok ill cu thursday then
[13:49] CB Axel: I always enjoy the discussions here. :)
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:50] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ty Herman and class:-) ... Time passed quickly today (lol)
[13:50] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): for us too Bergie
[13:50] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie...the clock was faster than you today :-))
[13:50] Lente (lentelies.anatine) is online.
[13:50] CB Axel: I have to hurry away. I'll see you all Thursday.
[13:50] CB Axel: Bye
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): back to chasing code bugs in Godot and add some new features

[13:50] herman Bergson: Bye CB

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