Tuesday, April 30, 2019

779: Getting ready for the Counterculture....

When you read a sentence like this one: "...who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly motorcyclists, and screamed with joy....",
you may wonder what that is about? But I doubt that you are deeply shocked by such a text these days.
It is from the poem "Howl" by Allen Ginsberg and customs officials seized 520 copies of the poem on March 25, 1957, being imported from the printer in London.
On June 3 Shig Murao, a bookstore manager, was arrested and jailed for selling Howl and Other Poems to an undercover San Francisco police officer. 
There came a trail and eventually nobody was convicted. It was October 1955, two years earlier, that Ginsberg read his poem "Howl" for an audience.
This moment is regarded as the start-up of the Beat Generation. It was a literary movement started by a group of authors 
whose work explored and influenced American culture and politics in the post-war era. 
The bulk of their work was published and popularized throughout the 1950s. The central elements of Beat culture are 
the rejection of standard narrative values, making a spiritual quest, the exploration of American and Eastern religions, 
the rejection of materialism, explicit portrayals of the human condition, experimentation with psychedelic drugs, and sexual liberation and exploration.
The members of the Beat Generation developed a reputation as new bohemian hedonists, who celebrated non-conformity and spontaneous creativity.
If you happen to think that the word "Beat" is related to the verb "to beat", then you will be surprised, for this is not the case.
According to Jack Kerouac the word is partly inspired by some dealer on Times Square NY, who used the term "beat" to indicate a state of ecstatic exhaustion,
and further it was related to the catholic concept "beatific sight". This may also change your ideas about the name "The Beatles".
After the previous lecture one of those present remarked " the problem I see with the beat generation is that most of them ended up wasted, with drugs, alcohol, bad habits"
That may be true for Jack Kerouac, who died at the age of 47. Allen Ginsberg, however, died when he was 70. 

I dare to doubt that despite all drugs and alcohol and bad habits we have here a wasted generation. On the contrary, they offered the inspiration for the counterculture of the 1960s.
One of the leading books of the Beat Generation is "On the Road" by Jack Kerouac. It is only a 70 pages and you can find a free PDF here: p.iplsc.com/-/00070IPJY9D5LK3Q.pdf
The idea for On the Road, Kerouac's second novel, was formed during the late 1940s in a series of notebooks, 
and then typed out on a continuous reel of paper during three weeks in April 1951. It was first published by Viking Press in 1957.
When the book was originally released, The New York Times hailed it as "the most beautifully executed, 
the clearest and the most important utterance yet made by the generation Kerouac himself named years ago as 'beat,' and whose principal avatar he is."
It was about 1970 that I saw the book on the bookshelf of a friend, but I never have read it, but I did eight chapters already now....... still a chance to become an old beatnik.
Thank you for your attention again.....

The Discussion

[2019/04/25 13:20]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[2019/04/25 13:20] Thank you for your attention again.....
[2019/04/25 13:20]       
[2019/04/25 13:20]  oola Neruda: the jazz world changed then also
[2019/04/25 13:21]  herman Bergson: Yes...music is a whole new chapter oola
[2019/04/25 13:21]  herman Bergson: R&B became popular too
[2019/04/25 13:21]  herman Bergson: Whites began to play that music
[2019/04/25 13:22]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting
[2019/04/25 13:22]  herman Bergson: And of course in the US there was happening a lot more....
[2019/04/25 13:22]  oola Neruda: I see ornette coleman and John Coltrane as culminations of that change
[2019/04/25 13:22]  herman Bergson: but we'll get to that issues of course
[2019/04/25 13:22]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): ahh I love Coltrane
[2019/04/25 13:23]  CB Axel: There was a lot to rebel against.
[2019/04/25 13:23]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): can imagine
[2019/04/25 13:23]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): just now they are beginning to recognize the benefit of psychedelic drugs
[2019/04/25 13:23]  herman Bergson: Yes indeeed
[2019/04/25 13:23]  Anna Adamant Albion (anna.adamant): is offline.
[2019/04/25 13:23]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and use for ptsd
[2019/04/25 13:24]  oola Neruda: would you consider ROUND MIDNIGHT to be beat?
[2019/04/25 13:24]  oola Neruda: film
[2019/04/25 13:24]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): dont know it
[2019/04/25 13:24]  herman Bergson: Don;t know the movie
[2019/04/25 13:25]  oola Neruda: about jazz musicians in Paris... people such as Billie Holliday et all.... Dexter Gordan played the lead
[2019/04/25 13:26]  herman Bergson: Is there an old (ex)beatnik among us here? :-)
[2019/04/25 13:26]  oola Neruda: my older brother
[2019/04/25 13:26]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): GIGGLES!!
[2019/04/25 13:26]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[2019/04/25 13:26] Beertje (beertje.beaumont): you?
[2019/04/25 13:26]  Jo Jung: It's from Bertrand Travernier. Music by H. Hancock
[2019/04/25 13:27]  CB Axel: I'm not old enough to have been a beatnik. :-)
[2019/04/25 13:27]  herman Bergson: yes....as a 1949 build myself I contantly have the feeling I just missd the bus
[2019/04/25 13:27]  Jo Jung: who won a Oscar for this, btw
[2019/04/25 13:27]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): were they like those who still follow the rolling stones all over ?
[2019/04/25 13:27]  herman Bergson: Kerouac and Ginsberg were from around 1925...
[2019/04/25 13:27]  oola Neruda: also "cool jazz" gerry mulligan and chet baker
[2019/04/25 13:28]  CB Axel: Jo, it was made in 1986, so it may be about the beat generation, but it wasn't made by them.
[2019/04/25 13:28]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Beat makes me think of hip hop beats, i have a friend who is awesome at making those
[2019/04/25 13:28]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[2019/04/25 13:28]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): plus that im into the street dance scene (where i also met that guy)
[2019/04/25 13:28]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but thats something different
[2019/04/25 13:29]  herman Bergson: Yes, BEAT has nothing to do with music here, but with a state of mind, I'd say
[2019/04/25 13:29]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aa
[2019/04/25 13:29]  oola Neruda: exa tlly
[2019/04/25 13:29]  CB Axel: Yes. Beat down. Exhausted.
[2019/04/25 13:29]  oola Neruda: exactly
[2019/04/25 13:30]  oola Neruda: hip
[2019/04/25 13:30]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): so the beat generation goes to prove that an underdeveloped or malfunctioning neocortex (poor impulse control, failures in executive function, chronic depression and addictions ... have its positive side too :p
[2019/04/25 13:30]  herman Bergson: When I found that in the literature I immediately thought of The Beatles....
[2019/04/25 13:30]  CB Axel: lol
[2019/04/25 13:30]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): creativity
[2019/04/25 13:30]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[2019/04/25 13:30]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): brilliant music
[2019/04/25 13:31]  herman Bergson: I don;t agree Elisabeth.....
[2019/04/25 13:31]  oola Neruda: i do... they deconstructed accepted musical forms
[2019/04/25 13:32]  herman Bergson: The cultural achievements of the beat generation in literature and art weren't the product of cerebral malfunctions drowned in drugs and alcohol
[2019/04/25 13:32]  oola Neruda: true
[2019/04/25 13:32]  herman Bergson: Even Kerouac described how he really worked on his books
[2019/04/25 13:33]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): right
[2019/04/25 13:33]  herman Bergson: although he died because of alcohol abuse
[2019/04/25 13:33]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks that was the history of f scott fitzgerald mmuch earlier and Hemingway too
[2019/04/25 13:34]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): I´m reluctant to regard bohemian hedonism as a valid path for life
[2019/04/25 13:34]  herman Bergson: the beat generation opened the doors for the counterculture
[2019/04/25 13:34]  CB Axel: It seems that a lot of writers suffer from depression and self-medicate with drugs and alcohol.
[2019/04/25 13:35]  herman Bergson: There we run into an ethical debat and even ontological one
[2019/04/25 13:35]  herman Bergson: Elisabeth
[2019/04/25 13:35]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): nods
[2019/04/25 13:35]  herman Bergson: It is a fact that that generation questioned the path live should take
[2019/04/25 13:36]  herman Bergson: We didn't yet touch on it...but in Europe existentialism was an important influence in this debate
[2019/04/25 13:37]  herman Bergson: But it is here in the background.....
[2019/04/25 13:37]  Android Neox (androidneox2): I've wondered if manic-depression, bipolar disorder, could be good for writing... periods of confident energy followed by periods of introspection and doubt... writing and editing
[2019/04/25 13:37]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): if existence precedes essence, what does the existence of the beat-nick generation tell us about their essence?
[2019/04/25 13:38]  CB Axel: That's an interesting thought, Android.
[2019/04/25 13:38]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think that is to be considered in a lot of creativity android
[2019/04/25 13:38]  herman Bergson: Yes, Elisabeth...good question
[2019/04/25 13:39]  herman Bergson: Not all writers are psychiatric patients.....some are....
[2019/04/25 13:39]  oola Neruda: in the art world, the saying is... people who are depressed etc. usually go into study of psychology..to understand themselves.. or into art to express it
[2019/04/25 13:39]  Android Neox (androidneox2): Changes in culture are generally due to some suppressed feeling or need in society. Then someone or something brings it all together. Like in chemistry where a supersaturated solution can suddenly crystallize about one nucleating crystal.
[2019/04/25 13:39]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa very possible
[2019/04/25 13:39]  herman Bergson: I think it is a classic romantic belief that you have to suffer in life to be a gifted artist
[2019/04/25 13:39]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): same with people with say autism can often be extremly good and creative at a particular thing
[2019/04/25 13:40]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): virginia woolf suffered from bipolar depression
[2019/04/25 13:40]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I can say that me myself is diagnosed with this
[2019/04/25 13:40]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i have Asbergers
[2019/04/25 13:40]  Android Neox (androidneox2): I can also see how the changes in world view of a bipolar personality could broaden an individuals understanding/experience
[2019/04/25 13:40]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and yes im a creative dude
[2019/04/25 13:40]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and a little crazy
[2019/04/25 13:41]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but also really nice
[2019/04/25 13:41]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[2019/04/25 13:41]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Im well me
[2019/04/25 13:41]  herman Bergson: /me smiles
[2019/04/25 13:41]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[2019/04/25 13:41]  herman Bergson: You definitely are Bejiita :-))
[2019/04/25 13:41]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): lol
[2019/04/25 13:41]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): Greta thunberg has just been nominated for the nobel peace prize for climate activism and she has asperger syndrome too :)
[2019/04/25 13:42]  oola Neruda: some are savaunts
[2019/04/25 13:42]  herman Bergson: But to get back to Elisabeth question: if existence precedes essence, what does the existence of the beat-nick generation tell us about their essence?
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I also think she do a good thing
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Android Neox (androidneox2): There's a phrase I've heard from science fiction writers on getting the best benefit from your own particular abilities and finding one's "voice"... "Exploit your weirdness"
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): someone have to stand up and make the point or nothing will happen
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): good one android :)
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa yes
[2019/04/25 13:42]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[2019/04/25 13:42]  oola Neruda: could some of it be reaction to having had two world wars....
[2019/04/25 13:43]  herman Bergson: That may be the essence of the beat-nick generation, Bejiita......standing up and making a point
[2019/04/25 13:43]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[2019/04/25 13:43]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): maybe oola
[2019/04/25 13:43]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess
[2019/04/25 13:43]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think it is a good thing that all of us are not creative .. it leaves and audience
[2019/04/25 13:44]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): an audience
[2019/04/25 13:44]  herman Bergson: There is a big difference here oola....
[2019/04/25 13:44]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): the banality of existence is hard to cope with now that we have everything we need.. go figure what it must have been like to deal with that angst back then, after two wars
[2019/04/25 13:44]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): by having everything we need, I mean now that things are more or less civil
[2019/04/25 13:45]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): at least here in western developed countries
[2019/04/25 13:45]  herman Bergson: Europe suffered under the destructive powers of two wars....the US never did.....
[2019/04/25 13:45]  herman Bergson: But both lost human lives in the wars
[2019/04/25 13:45]  oola Neruda: do existentialism and beat... have similar roots
[2019/04/25 13:45]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is a good question oola
[2019/04/25 13:45]  herman Bergson: My feeling is to answer yes.....
[2019/04/25 13:46]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): it started with kierkeggard
[2019/04/25 13:46]  herman Bergson: because both focus on an increasing individualism in the cultur
[2019/04/25 13:46]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): back in the 19th century
[2019/04/25 13:46]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): he is regarded as the father of existentialism
[2019/04/25 13:47]  herman Bergson: YEs Elisabeth...
[2019/04/25 13:47]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): he was profoundly depressed and regarded life as a bitter experience
[2019/04/25 13:47]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): I love his little book *crumbs*
[2019/04/25 13:47]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): diapsalmata?
[2019/04/25 13:47]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): he has some awesome aphorisms there
[2019/04/25 13:48]  herman Bergson: I assume you can find that literature for free on the internet
[2019/04/25 13:49]  herman Bergson: maybe in the Adeleide library
[2019/04/25 13:49]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shall look
[2019/04/25 13:49]  oola Neruda: would you include Nietzsche too?
[2019/04/25 13:49]  herman Bergson: I found On the Road too very easily
[2019/04/25 13:49]  herman Bergson: include in what oola?
[2019/04/25 13:49]  Android Neox (androidneox2): DIAPSALMATA: http://www.ccel.org/k/kierkegaard/selections/diapsalmata.htm
[2019/04/25 13:49]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): (I´ll have a look at on the road too)
[2019/04/25 13:49]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[2019/04/25 13:50]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): my favorites list is getting too long
[2019/04/25 13:50]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa ok
[2019/04/25 13:50]  herman Bergson: Have read it today half already......
[2019/04/25 13:50]  herman Bergson: Bar in bar out :-)
[2019/04/25 13:50]  herman Bergson: I am still wondering what it is about.....
[2019/04/25 13:51]  herman Bergson: the message/meaning
[2019/04/25 13:51]  oola Neruda: I found it very pedestrian...in the extreme... the way a very disallusioned person... hoping for enlightenment would be... when it did not occur
[2019/04/25 13:51]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well it all leads to thinking
[2019/04/25 13:51]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and homework
[2019/04/25 13:51]  herman Bergson: Indeed Gemma
[2019/04/25 13:52]  oola Neruda: hoping...searching... want meaning
[2019/04/25 13:52]  herman Bergson: yes and finally thinking of Dean Moriarty......
[2019/04/25 13:52]  herman Bergson: a person who left....
[2019/04/25 13:52]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ok I'm Sorry! to run off ty
[2019/04/25 13:52]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
[2019/04/25 13:52]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): fish time
[2019/04/25 13:52]  herman Bergson: I know Gemma...it is time :-))
[2019/04/25 13:52]  Beertje (beertje.beaumont): bye Gemma
[2019/04/25 13:53]  Anna Adamant Albion (anna.adamant): is online.
[2019/04/25 13:53]  Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): bye all
[2019/04/25 13:53]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): bye gemma
[2019/04/25 13:53]  herman Bergson: Bye :-)
[2019/04/25 13:53]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu gemma
[2019/04/25 13:53]  Melkor (melkor87): Bye.
[2019/04/25 13:53]  oola Neruda: baiii
[2019/04/25 13:53]  herman Bergson: Time to thank you all for your participation again....
[2019/04/25 13:53]  Beertje (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[2019/04/25 13:53]  herman Bergson: Class dismissed...
[2019/04/25 13:53]  CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[2019/04/25 13:54]  Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): thank you herman xx
[2019/04/25 13:54]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): interesting again
[2019/04/25 13:54]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): now gonna read that book
[2019/04/25 13:54]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[2019/04/25 13:54]  herman Bergson: We still have to look at the question what legacy this period left for us in the 21st century
[2019/04/25 13:54]  Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and test that program i installed
[2019/04/25 13:55]  CB Axel: Well, I have work to do before the weekend, so I'll see you all on Tuesday.

[2019/04/25 13:55]  CB Axel: Bye, everyone.

Wednesday, April 24, 2019

778: The Beat Generation is coming.....

"The Organization Man" was a bestselling book by William H. Whyte, (1917 – 1999) an American scholar on urban development, organizational analyst, journalist and people-watcher, published in 1956.
A central tenet of the book is that average Americans subscribed to a collectivist ethic rather than to the prevailing notion of rugged individualism. 
Rugged (raw) individualism, derived from "individualism", is a term that indicates the virtuous ideal where an individual is totally self-reliant and independent from outside assistance.

A key point made was that people became convinced that organizations and groups could make better decisions than individuals, 
and thus serving an organization became logically preferable to advancing one's individual creativity. 

He observed that this system led to risk-averse executives who faced no consequences and could expect jobs for life as long as they made no egregious missteps.
Add to this the observations of Riesman and Galbraith: the rise of the mass society and mass consumption, advertisement related to economic growth,
and you stand eye to eye with "The Lonely Crowd", alienated from themselves, conformist and adhering to middle-class petty bourgeois behavior.
The generation, born in the 1920s, were between 30 and 40 of age in the 1950s, the young people, that didn't want to comply to this sleep-inducing existence.
An interesting chronological detail is, that I was born in 1949 and in the first ten years or so of my life the American society was confronted with a cultural rebellion.
I was playing with my toys, while people like Alan Ginsberg and Jack Kerouac opened all gates of hell, as the petty bourgeoisie claimed.
This cultural proces happened in Europe about ten years later. Contrary to the US, Europe was exhausted, half destroyed and totally occupied with rebuilding, hence...
Another interesting observation, especially in relation to our present situation is, that the rebellion against the petty bourgeoisie was shaped by literature.
Just imagine that time. It is 1955. Radio existed and TV was in its infancy. In other words, people read magazines and books.
Thence novels and poetry could have great influence on the public opinion. That is why I mentioned Ginsberg and Kerouac.
Let me quote, what Wikipedia tells about Allan Ginsberg, just to set the tone for what we are heading at.
Irwin Allen Ginsberg (1926 –  1997) was an American poet, philosopher and writer. 
He is considered to be one of the leading figures of both the Beat Generation during the 1950s and the counterculture that soon followed. 
He vigorously opposed militarism, economic materialism, and sexual repression and was known as 
embodying various aspects of this counterculture, such as his views on drugs, hostility to bureaucracy and openness to Eastern religions.
More to come.....thank you for your attention again...

The Discussion

[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[13:22] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): the problem I see with the beat generation is that most of them ended up wasted, with drugs, alcohol, bad habits
[13:22] herman Bergson: We now enter our own history
[13:23] herman Bergson: True Elisabeth...
[13:23] herman Bergson: Kerouac died at 47 due to all that
[13:23] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): as opposed to what we have now, people obsessed with self care, biohackers trying to optimize brain function, physical health
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes....we have to think about that change......
[13:23] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): the craze of nootropics, exercise, high interval training, meditation, intermittent fasting..
[13:24] herman Bergson: the obsession with physical health
[13:24] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): as opposed to grabbing a jack daniels bottle and ruining your liver
[13:24] oola Neruda: are these periods that overlapped with wars... like the one in Korea?
[13:24] herman Bergson: I yet prefer the Jack Daniels :-)
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hehe
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well JD is tasty now and then
[13:25] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): thats the beatnick in you talking :p
[13:25] oola Neruda: and internment of Japanese
[13:25] herman Bergson: Indeed it is Elisabeth :-))
[13:26] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): so what was the beat generation looking for? they wanted to evade?
[13:26] herman Bergson: But these 1950s are interesting times....and the effect on European culture
[13:26] herman Bergson: ten years later
[13:27] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): escape reality? escape the banality of existence after the WWII trauma?
[13:27] CB Axel: They eschewed button-down collars and drone work in offices.
[13:27] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): nods
[13:28] CB Axel threw the word "eschewed" in there for Elisabeth's liking for English vocabulary. :-)
[13:28] herman Bergson: Had to look it up, CB :-)
[13:28] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): :)
[13:28] herman Bergson: allthough we have the dutch verb "Schuwen"
[13:28] CB Axel: Sorry. I did picture you all scrambling to pull up google translate. LOL
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha
[13:29] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): not yet
[13:29] herman Bergson: Might even be that your eschewed comes from it
[13:29] CB Axel: Could be, Herman. Our large vocabulary comes from our stealing from every other language.
[13:30] herman Bergson: Well...do we have a class of old beatnik here....or those close to that era?
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:30] oola Neruda: nods
[13:30] herman Bergson: Anyone read On the Road by Jack Kerouac?
[13:31] CB Axel: Compared to my parents and my brothers I could be called a beatnik.
[13:31] oola Neruda: was so long ago that i forget a lot of it
[13:31] CB Axel: I haven't read it. I often think that I should.
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): when i installed assasins creed (given away for free to the 25th to support the Notre dame disaster) i learned that the word Assasin is not english but persian
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): from the beginning
[13:31] herman Bergson: yes indeed oola....
[13:32] herman Bergson: But our goal here is to see what we in the 21st century inherited from them  (= us:-)
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:32] oola Neruda: flexibility in Jazz
[13:32] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): lol
[13:32] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): good one oola
[13:32] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): :))
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): haha well jazz is nice when coding i think
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that and deep house
[13:32] oola Neruda: snap snap
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (snaps out of it)
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): WHAT!
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): lol
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes in music we inherited a lot....
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:33] herman Bergson: But we'll get to that later
[13:33] oola Neruda: a leaning toward free verse in poetry
[13:33] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): in a way, they were people who disliked the status quo of society and opted out, but their coping mechanisms were sketchy
[13:34] herman Bergson: the fact that whites took over  black music.....someone like Elvis for instance
[13:35] oola Neruda: an exaggeration of the abstract in art...
[13:35] herman Bergson: Yes...Elisabeth...so in the end neo-liberalism still seems to be the big winner here :-)
[13:35] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): um
[13:35] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): thats a non sequitur :p
[13:36] herman Bergson smiles
[13:36] herman Bergson: ok :-)
[13:36] herman Bergson: Let me elaborate on my statement....
[13:37] herman Bergson: Riesman and Galbraith showed us the consequences of liberalism in the US
[13:37] herman Bergson: and People like Ginsberg an Kerouac represent the rebellion against the Organization Man
[13:38] herman Bergson: but when you look at the landscape of today....what did we inherit eventually?
[13:38] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): would Elon Musk fit into the Organization man description?
[13:38] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): if you dislike society, instead of getting high on drugs, writing poetry and playing music.. you can also train yourself as a scientist and try to implement changes for the better
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes....I was thinking of the multi-nationals indeed....the big money
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or be a creator like me
[13:39] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): yes, a lone wolf but still creative, with good self-care habits, and a plan
[13:39] herman Bergson: I agree with that, Elisabeth
[13:39] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): :)
[13:39] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): computer games is as i get it the ultimate artform combining them all into 1 format
[13:39] oola Neruda: i think it laid a groundwork for Martin Luther and the events that followed..... also Ghandi
[13:40] herman Bergson: But I think these artists represent the discomfort with actual reality.....
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well that seems logical
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they wanted to escape from what was then
[13:40] CB Axel: Some people find certain drugs (hallucinogens and marijuana) aid in their creativity.
[13:41] herman Bergson: You get that philosophy about the function of art in those days......meant to awaken people....not to please them with aesthetics
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I guess that can be very posible
[13:42] oola Neruda: i saw fellow artists try to create while high... the results might be "colorful" but they are not organized or statements
[13:42] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): if you are creating an abstract painting maybe, but if you are trying to design a drone, or an engine, or a solar panels system, or to develop Quantum Physics devices.. hallucinogens and marijuana are not going to help
[13:42] CB Axel: True
[13:42] oola Neruda: true for art too...
[13:42] herman Bergson smiles
[13:42] CB Axel: I wouldn't trust an airplane designed by someone on drugs.
[13:42] herman Bergson: Got a point there Elisabeth :-))
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): im not sure if my digital creations would be so good if high on something, dreaming ideas up maybe but not when drawing/programming them
[13:43] CB Axel: Or does that explain Boeing?
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hmm you got to wonder
[13:43] herman Bergson: Creepy thought CB :-)
[13:43] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): CB lol
[13:43] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sadly i have seen many cases where they put money and production before safety both in production and service killing 100s of people as result and then denying it all
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as said before money rules everything
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sadly
[13:44] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): has to change
[13:44] herman Bergson: An issue indeed Bejiita
[13:44] oola Neruda: money is behind climate change denial... there is oil to be pumped and sold
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and if there is a whistleblower they just take his license avay making him unemployed for life,
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so that they can go on with it
[13:45] herman Bergson: But money is related to a view of ma and a view of life.....
[13:45] herman Bergson: money as such is meaningless
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but if i gt onto a plane i want to trust that machine i get up there and down safley same as i do for ex elevators
[13:46] herman Bergson: A gun is just a piece of metal...it gets meaning by the hand that holds it
[13:46] oola Neruda: yes
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): i suppose the machines are safe and therefore ride them
[13:46] herman Bergson: So....we still have a number of issues to look into :-)
[13:47] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): yeah.. conscientiousness over openness to experience.. thats the kind of people we need
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): what about fastfood after WO11 that became popular?
[13:47] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): to design boeings at least lol
[13:47] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:47] herman Bergson: It cant be the case that it were only the artists that created this rebellion....so we should have a look at other eras too
[13:48] CB Axel: Part of that, Beertje, came from women have worked outside of the home during the war and finding that they liked it better than cooking and cleaning.
[13:48] CB Axel: Fast food freed women from the kitchen.
[13:48] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): made an unhealthy popularity
[13:48] oola Neruda: excellent point CB
[13:48] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Boeing try to chase after airbus even they passed them long ago (the 320 already had glass cockpits and fly by wire way before boing, they missed that train)
[13:48] herman Bergson: interesting CB
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and result is disaster
[13:49] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): rushing stuff
[13:49] herman Bergson: ok....time to move on to our next lecture......:-)
[13:49] CB Axel: Right, Bejiita. And we rush our food, too. More disaster.
[13:50] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): (I´d like to make a petition for a future lecture)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): u should not rush food either but enjoy it
[13:50] oola Neruda: we got tv and COMMERCIALS
[13:50] herman Bergson: I won't rush lectures.....:-)
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats good cause like them
[13:50] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): (the role of free-masons in the international politics and events would make a really cool lecture
[13:50] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and have nothing else planned either so
[13:50] herman Bergson: ok...unless you have that big one question to ask......?
[13:51] Wisdomseeker (lissena) is online.
[13:52] herman Bergson: interesting subject indeed: the role of free-masons....but...some other time :-)
[13:52] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): nods
[13:52] herman Bergson: SO...thank you all again for your active participation today ...
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa thats a theme for sure
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for a project
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well I guess then Im gonna continue work on my interactive art in Blender and Unreal Engine
[13:52] herman Bergson: Class dismissed......:-)
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and see what i comes up to
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu thursday
[13:52] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): bye Bejiita
[13:53] Elisabeth (elisabeth3210): ty xxx
[13:53] herman Bergson: See you on Thursday Bejita :-)
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:53] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:53] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu
[13:53] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thank you Herman and class!
[13:53] herman Bergson: Muchas gracias, Elisabeth :-)
[13:53] CB Axel: See you all Thursday. Bye.

[13:53] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Gute Nacht Bergie

Tuesday, April 23, 2019

777: La Condition Humaine...

The late 1950s and early 1960s were great times for sociology and psychology in relation to economics.
There were published a number of important sociological studies, especially about the developments in the American society.
Understandable, that everybody looked at that society as an example. Europe was exhausted and half destroyed, 
while the US transformed into a mass society and enjoyed mass consumption. Besides, it became the guardian of the free world against the communist threat in NATO.
We already presented a few important books like David Riesman's "The lonely Crowd" (1950). According to Riesman institutions 
that had flourished within the tradition-directed and the inner-directed social framework became secondary to daily life. 
Instead of living according to traditions, or conforming to the values of organized religion, of the family, or societal codes, 
the new middle class gradually adopted a malleability in the way people lived with each other. 
The increasing ability to consume goods and afford material abundance was accompanied by a shift away from tradition to inner-directedness.
 How to define one's self became a function of the way others lived. Outer-directedness became the norm.
John Kenneth Galbraith showed how economic growth, mass consumption and advertisement are the engine of the welfare state. "The Affluent Society" was published in 1958.
The book sought to clearly outline the manner in which the post–World War II United States was becoming wealthy in the private sector 
but remained poor in the public sector, lacking social and physical infrastructure, and perpetuating income disparities.
Walt Whitman Rostow (1916 - 2003), an American economist and political theorist, published "The Stages of Economic Growth" in 1960.
In his book he describes the five stages of economic growth through the ages and the characteristics of the fifth stage, at which we have arrived are:
The industrial base dominates the economy; the primary sector is of greatly diminished weight in economy and society;
widespread and normative consumption of high-value consumer goods (e.g. automobiles);
consumers typically (if not universally), have disposable income, beyond all basic needs, for additional goods
Urban society (a movement away from rural countrysides to the cities)
This is at the height of the Cold War, where parts of the world didn't believe in Rostow's stages, but in the fall of capitalism and the rule of the proletariat.
Of course there also were protests against mass consumption and manipulation by advertisements and commercials.
In "The Hidden Persuaders", first published in 1957, Vance Packard, an American journalist,  explored advertisers' use of consumer motivational research 
and other psychological techniques, including depth psychology and subliminal tactics, 
to manipulate expectations and induce desire for products, particularly in the American postwar era.
I, myself, recall serious debates we had in the late 1960s about the mass man, the herd spirit, brainless consumerism and the decay of morals.
And what is "La Condition Humaine" of today? It seems that mass consumption worldwide has been accepted as a natural phenomenon.
And to keep this going the debate focuses on environmental issues and pollution.
Thank you for your attention again...

The Discussion

[13:19] oola Neruda: well said... well researched...
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:20] herman Bergson: Thank you oola....
[13:20] herman Bergson: But let me rephrase the issue...
[13:20] herman Bergson: Those sociologists described development as stages....
[13:21] herman Bergson: Like Rostow had five stages and we are in the 5th....
[13:21] herman Bergson: But that suggests that there is some logic, some unavoidableness in where we are now
[13:21] CB Axel: I need to read about those 5 stages.
[13:21] CB Axel: What worries me more than marketers manipulating us into thinking we need to buy more goods is they way they manipulate us into things like voting for Trump or for Brexit.
[13:22] herman Bergson: Those stages are historical phases CB
[13:22] oola Neruda: may i add... a book that is very important....MERCHANTS OF DOUBT
[13:22] herman Bergson: Like homo sapiens began as a gatherer - hunter
[13:23] CB Axel: I've heard of that book, oola.
[13:23] herman Bergson: What is that book about oola?
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): thinks i did too oola
[13:24] herman Bergson: Got it....Spin doctors spread misinformation and confusion among American citizens to delay progress on such important issues as global climate change.
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): oh yes
[13:24] oola Neruda: remember when the cigarette companies were protecting their profits... and said that smoking will not harm you... and they had a bunch of people act like sceintists and put out false info
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there is so much bad information being put out
[13:24] herman Bergson: lol...that is what Barr is doing on the Mueller report with his press conference :-))
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): amazing stuff !!!!
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): what a toady
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i felt I'm Sorry! for Rosenstein standing there
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they even had commercials like "what ciggarete does your doctor smoke" and even was in Flintstones series
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): looking blankly ahead
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): brand was Winston I think
[13:25] oola Neruda: the people denying climate change are doing the same thing... even some of the same players... and they get paid to say..."well, that isn't so..this is what is so....?
[13:25] herman Bergson: he had a face like a sphinx
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:25] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): also amazing
[13:26] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i hope he gets to appear before a committee soon
[13:26] oola Neruda: you only need people to doubt... don't have to have facts to do it
[13:26] herman Bergson: ok...back to business here :-)
[13:26] CB Axel: exactly, oola
[13:27] herman Bergson: that is the US politics of today, it seems
[13:28] herman Bergson: But back to the issue of today....
[13:28] CB Axel: But the US isn't the only place being lied to and manipulated.
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): no that is very true
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I listen to bbc at night if i wake up
[13:28] herman Bergson: I get the impression that consumerism isn't a problem at all anymore....even Russia and China go that way...
[13:28] CB Axel: I just saw a TED talk about how ads on Facebook influenced people in an area of Wales to vote yes to Brexit.
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): african countries
[13:30] oola Neruda: the books Herman mentioned are the seeds... and see what has grown from those important seeds...step by step
[13:30] herman Bergson: That was what Vance Packard addressed....the use of psychological tricks to manipulated the people
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): loll like the ads they said were brain waahing
[13:31] herman Bergson: A world of consumers. oola...
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): hidden
[13:32] herman Bergson: It was the 20th century that created this for us
[13:32] herman Bergson: so...what is next?
[13:33] herman Bergson: Rostow never got further than the 5th stage :-)
[13:33] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it was a long century
[13:33] herman Bergson: We are the sixth however
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): as i said, ads are to get people to buy stuff they don't need and I mean we don't need stuff we don't need right?
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): i think it's going to be difficult to change, we are used to this way of life
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje.....
[13:34] herman Bergson: As such I don't complain about it.....we have healthcare, good education, good infrastructure and food for all for instance
[13:34] oola Neruda: there is a book out with 20 things to avoid...as it is changing... it's called ON TYRANY... describing it , placing it in our history... and what to avoid as this practice continues to grow  by timothy snyder
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): interesting
[13:35] Ciska Riverstone is online.
[13:35] herman Bergson: Interesting person, oola
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): shall look for ti
[13:36] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it
[13:36] oola Neruda: small book...easy read
[13:36] Lai Fallen (laila.streeter) is online.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Google on timothy snyder and you've got it gGemma
[13:37] herman Bergson: As you see, the world isn't just that black and white picture....there is happening a lot
[13:38] herman Bergson: And as I use to say.....
[13:38] herman Bergson: Where there is time, there is hope :-)
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:39] herman Bergson: So if you haven't any questions anymore....?
[13:40] herman Bergson: Let me dismiss class :-)
[13:40] herman Bergson: Thank you all again
[13:40] oola Neruda: i like how you went through the stages if change so clearly...
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so interesting and so true as usual
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki time for easter party
[13:40] herman Bergson whispers: thank you Bejiita :-)
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu soon all
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:40] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥

[13:40] oola Neruda: with a place to learn more