Wednesday, March 30, 2011

314: The Brain and Grief

What I try to achieve with my project "The Mystery of the Brain" is to demonstrate where nature ends and philosophical wonder begins.

For now, we aren't yet close to that dividing line. I try to show you how emotions are not special ingredients of an abstract mind, but clear biological processes.

Being biological it means, that our emotions are the result of a long evolutionary process. And last lecture it was Joy and Happiness, today it is Grief and Sadness.

Like with joy and happiness, sadness is not so much an emotion as happiness, but more a mood, mainly colored by the emotion of grief.

If there already was little scientific research on the emotion of joy, grief is far more unpopular as subject of scientific research.

It is a bit odd, because we would love to know how to escape from grief, which even may develop into depression. Fortunately the latter gets more scientific attention.

But let's focus on grief. Grief arises after a loss or a disappointment, but only when one is not itself culpable.

If you think you are culpable for causing the grief, an other emotion kicks in: guilt. We'll discuss that emotion later.

If somebody else is responsible for your grief, then it also isn't really grief you will experience, but rather anger or indignation.

Guilt and aggression can easily mix with the emotion of grief, but there is a difference. There even is a functional difference. I'll get to that later.

From a biological point of view our main question is: What is the evolutionary advantage of experiencing grief??

Wouldn't it have been better if evolution had discarded of the emotion of grief? How can grief have contributed to the evolution of the homo sapiens?

Let us take as an example a clear case of real grief: the loss of a dear friend or a close relative. What is the effect of grief on us? Threefold: cognitive, physical and social.

In the first place cognitively we can observe that grief drains our energy. The body even reduces its energy level. We retreat into ourself, look inward. We seem to have lost interest in the outer world.

But this has a positive side: we re-examine our goals (in life). Think about how life can make sense by confronting you with death. Looking inward protects us for more grief. For instance the confrontation with personal things of the deceased.

An other example: 40.000 years ago one of our ancestors, a male is rejected for the third time by a female he feels strongly attracted to. He is in deep grief….

Sits apart from the group, but in his mind the grief brings him to re-evaluate his situation. Should he choose other company for the hunt? Should he concentrate on his personal skills and perfect these? His grief leads to a new perspective.

So much about the cognitive effect. Physically the grieving person feels inactive, weak and washed-out. Even the metabolism slows down. The body is saving energy.

On the other hand, it is a known fact now that physical activity is a good antidote against grief. It is called "Running Therapy", physical action prescribed to depressive people. It works.

But nature has its own therapy in normal cases of grief…. often grief alternates with anger, which creates an energy boost in the body again. You feel angry because it is so unjust, that he died so young. Well you know the examples…..

Finally the social meaning of grief: it brings people together. It strengthens the social bonds. The death of a member of the tribe is always embedded in a ritual and ceremony for the group.

So, from an evolutionary point of view grief is a real positive emotion: it brings people to reconsider the goals in their life, the meaning of life, think of new perspectives and it works as a socially binding force in the group.

The Discussion

[13:25] herman Bergson: Thank you...:)
[13:25] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): so you are saying grief is biological only??
[13:26] herman Bergson: If you have any questionor remarks...
[13:26] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): what did i miss
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes is a part of our system...we cant get rid of is in our genes...
[13:26] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:26] herman Bergson: all over the world ..all people experience grief
[13:26] Henk Honi: sometimes you have no time to grieve
[13:27] Alarice von Doobie (alarice.beaumont): but what you say sounds so positive.. cannot be
[13:27] Kyra Neutron: you have time to sleep..dont you ?
[13:27] herman Bergson: that is just a matter of circumstances Henk..
[13:27] Henk Honi: yes
[13:27] Henk Honi: can therefore influence
[13:28] Merel Heron: it is good to hear professor that grief or depression can have a good reaction on running actions
[13:28] Mick Nerido: Grief bring us back to harsh reality it make us more circumspect
[13:28] herman Bergson: main point here is that grief is a basic emotion,,general to the homo sapiens…to all humans on earth so to speak
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:28] herman Bergson: Oh Merel....
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes
[13:29] Bejiita Imako: that must be true
[13:29] herman Bergson: Physical excercise is good for the body but also good for the brain....
[13:29] Henk Honi: therefore a kind of protection?
[13:29] Henk Honi: that can help us
[13:29] Kyra Neutron: grief may lead you to commit suicide too...
[13:30] herman Bergson: People with depression..which is a deep form of grief are really helped by getting into physical action…
[13:30] Merel Heron: mmmmm
[13:30] Mick Nerido: If it leads to suicide its evolution dead end
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: idk Henk..but i wouldnt feel the helping hand of angels..when i loose my kid...and run into grief...
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: lovely antichrist..
[13:31] herman Bergson: Yes weird end of an delete itself...
[13:31] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: indeed
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: what universe wins from grief herman?
[13:32] Mick Nerido: If you can't handle grief you don't survive
[13:32] herman Bergson: The only help for grief is in yourself and in the support of the group around you
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: dont have to survive...
[13:32] Kyra Neutron: it is your wish to survive..
[13:32] herman Bergson: no...Kyra..survival isn't an obligation....
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: you sure herman ?
[13:33] herman Bergson: oh yes...
[13:33] herman Bergson: To be alive is just a coincidence
[13:33] herman Bergson: was because your parents once made love
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:33] Kyra Neutron: lovely biology..
[13:34] herman Bergson: yes..there you are!!!!!..
[13:34] Kyra Neutron: hahahah
[13:34] Doodus Moose: it's good to know my parents got along _once_
[13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[13:34] Kyra Neutron: sticks out tongue to Mick...
[13:34] herman Bergson: lol...ok Doodus..
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:34] Kyra Neutron: see..the prof says survival is not needed..
[13:34] Kyra Neutron: silly boy...
[13:34] herman Bergson: no no..that is NOT what I said...
[13:34] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[13:35] herman Bergson: Survival is the basic drive of the organism..any organism...
[13:35] Kyra Neutron: trying to keep laugh in a low decibel
[13:35] herman Bergson: that there are some members of the group that want to end their lives deliberately...well...
[13:35] Mick Nerido: Suicide is nature's way of saying you don't count
[13:35] Kyra Neutron: no mick
[13:36] herman Bergson: No mick…..
[13:36] Henk Honi: Can you influence yourself well, sadness?
[13:36] Kyra Neutron: suicide is the result...
[13:36] Kyra Neutron: that at the cant bare more pain
[13:36] Kyra Neutron: and loss of one of them
[13:36] Henk Honi: yes it are
[13:36] Merel Heron: i really think that depression is a illness
[13:36] Kyra Neutron: it does?
[13:37] Henk Honi: yes i think to
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): loss of anyone close is grief most of the time
[13:37] Merel Heron: i have read the book of Dick Swaab
[13:37] herman Bergson: Yes depression is even a brain illness Merel
[13:37] Kyra Neutron: and guilt..
[13:37] Kyra Neutron: that will trigger it
[13:37] Henk Honi: yes
[13:37] Kyra Neutron: which herman politely avoided to tell us
[13:37] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:37] Merel Heron: and i know now that it isn't easy to cure this feeling of total sadness
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): we should know taht by now
[13:37] herman Bergson smiles at Kyra
[13:37] Mick Nerido: If grief is too much it is the answer for the individual, but it is a taboo because it is bad for the race
[13:38] herman Bergson: general....
[13:38] Kyra Neutron: wigs her invisible taily be approved at final
[13:39] herman Bergson: a common saying is that you learn and grow by the suffering you experience....the pains and troubles
[13:39] herman Bergson: the grief you have to endure...
[13:39] Doodus Moose: YES - because this is the only time you deal with such things
[13:39] Merel Heron: pppffff that is something to say !
[13:39] Mick Nerido: We are all here because our ancesters could get over grief and move on
[13:39] Henk Honi: so maybe that will help you, some
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i would agree with that!
[13:40] Kyra Neutron: are here coz they had at least one clever do things right..
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): there has always been grief if it is part of genetic makeup
[13:40] herman Bergson: Yes Mick....the behavioral system of grief, the emotion, was favorable for survival, it seems...
[13:41] Mick Nerido: Religion deals with grief, some people only turn to religion in grief
[13:41] herman Bergson: yes Joy , grief is a basic emioton of the organism....
[13:42] herman Bergson: religion is the cultural sauce on grief...:-)
[13:42] Merel Heron: but grief makes you also very lonely
[13:42] Mick Nerido: All clutures have rituals for dealing with grief
[13:42] herman Bergson: Yes Merel....griefs turns your mind close up for others
[13:42] Kyra Neutron: looks surprised..and wanders..wasnt religion part of the reason to grief?
[13:42] Henk Honi: grief can be so empowering?
[13:43] herman Bergson: Yes Henk....
[13:43] Henk Honi: make you stonger
[13:43] Henk Honi: yes maby
[13:43] herman Bergson: The rituals are for instance ways to turn grief into an empowering feeling...
[13:43] Henk Honi: maby hard to?
[13:43] herman Bergson: for instance to celebrate that the deceased has passed over to a better life
[13:44] Henk Honi: yes i think it can
[13:44] Kyra Neutron: yes..and we do believe it? so it loweres our pain ?
[13:44] herman Bergson: so let's support him on his way to the better world....
[13:44] Henk Honi: we trry
[13:44] herman Bergson: put a coin in his mouth to pay Charon for instance
[13:44] Mick Nerido: Knowing that others have felt as you do strenthens bonds good for the group
[13:44] herman Bergson: or like the Pharaos in Egypte...give him all he needs on his journey to the afterlife
[13:45] herman Bergson: Yes that was what I mentioned Mick....the social effect of sharing with the grieving people
[13:45] Kyra Neutron: and put some beauty housemaids into the bag too..
[13:45] Mick Nerido: Right
[13:46] herman Bergson: 72 virgins even Kyra...!
[13:46] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:46] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh brother
[13:46] Mick Nerido: Him too
[13:46] herman Bergson: I wonder what a muslim woman gets when she dies???
[13:46] Kyra Neutron: oh man...
[13:46] Kyra Neutron: many many nuri's
[13:46] herman Bergson: 72 stuts?
[13:47] Kyra Neutron: virgin males..
[13:47] Mick Nerido: She gets to take off her berka
[13:47] Doodus Moose: males....
[13:47] Kyra Neutron: just for that it worths to kick the ass of greek gods
[13:47] herman Bergson: Hmmm..let's not go into detail here ^_^
[13:47] Merel Heron whispers: do they exist virgin males ?
[13:47] Kyra Neutron: hahahha oks
[13:47] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[13:47] Henk Honi: :))
[13:47] Ciska Riverstone: *Ggg*
[13:48] Kyra Neutron: thats why it is called heaven Merel..
[13:48] Henk Honi: yes i think,
[13:48] Kyra Neutron: you believe anything given..
[13:48] herman Bergson: I think. that the idea is clear....
[13:48] Merel Heron: ahaaaa
[13:48] herman Bergson: grief is a basic emotion....a drive to set a series of behaviors in action...
[13:49] Henk Honi: it's so different for everyone
[13:49] Henk Honi: i think
[13:49] Mick Nerido: I thing the mind remember good things easier than sad things, why?
[13:49] herman Bergson: In fact to solve the problem.....which is the feeling of sadness...
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: because u dont wanna feel sad but happy and thus rather remember happy things
[13:50] herman Bergson: Maybe that is even a physiological matter Mick...
[13:50] Kyra Neutron: it is subjective i believe..
[13:50] herman Bergson: good things...feeling good is related to the production of dopamine in the brain....
[13:50] Merel Heron: we all want to be happy
[13:50] herman Bergson: we are addicted to that
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: yes
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: i dont wanna feel sad but happy
[13:50] herman Bergson: so remembering good things produces the dopamine again
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: as happy I can
[13:51] Merel Heron: but sadness make you wonder what is life about
[13:51] herman Bergson: Yes Merel....very true....
[13:51] herman Bergson: and the answer can lead to a good feeling….
[13:51] herman Bergson: or the bad feeling that life makes no sense at all...
[13:51] Henk Honi: makes life intense, grief?
[13:52] Henk Honi: ups and downs
[13:52] herman Bergson: which in fact is a good feeling too...saves you a lot of pondering about life
[13:52] Doodus Moose: yes Henk - gives life dimension
[13:52] Henk Honi: yes i think to
[13:52] herman Bergson: is a point..that especially christianity sees grief as a positive feeling..
[13:52] Kyra Neutron:'ll make us believe..that everything that is done for good...
[13:53] Doodus Moose:
[13:53] herman Bergson: what do you mean Kyra
[13:53] Kyra Neutron: grief is a good aim..
[13:53] Henk Honi: they collide with eachother sadness and happiness?
[13:53] Kyra Neutron: a good aim..
[13:54] Kyra Neutron: even …we'll trigger the despair for good...
[13:54] Kyra Neutron: hey..isnt there any badness ?
[13:54] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): crash
[13:54] herman Bergson: well....through the many centuries of evolution the central nervous system has developed the emotion of grief...
[13:54] Henk Honi: Yes welcom back
[13:54] Bejiita Imako: wb
[13:54] Merel Heron: songs are often about sad feelings
[13:55] herman Bergson: that is..a behavioral system to deal with for instance the loss of a relative...a member of the tribe...
[13:55] Kyra Neutron: mr. evolution has its motive for itself..and we know we are griefing for good ?
[13:55] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): herman the donation book is not working
[13:55] Merel Heron: may be the sad feeling is stronger then the happy feelings ?
[13:55] Mick Nerido: Thanks I must go
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: theoretically it is so logical: -) however practically, it looks often differently ;-) see you all @ Thursday - ty herman & Class!!!
[13:55] herman Bergson: sorry...
[13:55] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): will try to be here thursday
[13:55] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye :-)
[13:55] Bejiita Imako: bye Mick
[[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: bye bergfrau - bye mick
[13:56] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:56] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): time to go now
[13:56] Kyra Neutron: good night all..and forgive an ass demon..
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: ok cu gemma
[13:56] Ciska Riverstone: bye gemma
[13:56] Kyra Neutron: it was a nice class
[13:56] herman Bergson: Ok....time to dismiss class....:-)
[13:56] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: aaa interesting again
[13:56] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:56] herman Bergson: dont feel sad about it....we'll be back on Thusrday ^_^
[13:57] Doodus Moose: :-)
[13:57] Bejiita Imako: yes ㋡
[13:57] Bejiita Imako: cu all tehn
[13:57] Bejiita Imako: then
[13:57] Kyra Neutron: salutes
[13:57] Kyra Neutron: :)
[13:57] Henk Honi: bye all
[13:57] Ciska Riverstone: bye all
[13:57] Merel Heron: thank you again prof Bergson .
[13:57] Merel Heron: bye bye

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Saturday, March 26, 2011

313: The Brain and Happiness again

Joy and happiness are closely related, but they are not the same. While joy lasts often just a short time, happiness can last even days or months.

This is a reason not to call happiness an emotion, if we use as definition for emotion a force that organizes and activates a series of behaviors pointing all in the same direction.

So, we'd better call happiness a mood. Joy, on the other hand, is an experience of satisfaction. sometimes short,then again long lasting. Can joy be such a driving power? And what is the evolutionary advantage of joy?

Joy boosts our energy. It is as if our body gathers all energy and is ready for new actions. We are willing to get new experiences, ready for new impressions and learning experiences.

A happy mood enhances the sensitivity for certain stimuli, which facilities learning. A teacher, who is cheerful and makes a joke now and then, certainly creates a better learning environment than a chagrin. This has evolutionary value.

The joy, you experience is the result of a positive thing, a thing that is good for our mind or body. The brain reacts in its own way by activating certain pleasure centers which produce several neurotransmitters like endorfines and dopamine.

Thus as a support system for our survival and procreation the emotion of joy signals us that we are confronted with a positive and valuable situation and its message is simply: we want more…more … more…

There is one interesting issue here. I can enumerate a lot of things that cause joy, but among these is also art….. a beautiful painting, a symphony.

We know pottery, created by our ancestors, which is decorated with geometric patterns. Completely useless, it might appear. It doesn't add a thing to the functionality of the pot.

Yet, from our early days on, the homo sapiens has created such things, which we call art. What evolutionary value it had, we don't know.

Ok, you could say, that the aesthetic experience causes the feeling of joy, but that hardly answers the question, if you only call to mind the endless debate on the concept of beauty or the question "What is art?"

But from an evolutionary point of view there is more to joy. The emotion of joy has a strong social impact. When you see, that someone is happy, you easily will feel happy yourself. This sharing of joy tightens a bond.

It can increase the ease to cooperate, which again strengthens the cohesion in the group. And this is of course a big help in the evolutionary process.

And cooperation was a key issue for our ancestors; hunting together, building together their huts, taking care of the education of children together, and so on.

Brings happiness, whether it is an emotion or not - an evolutionary advantage? We always compare what we have with what we would like to have, or what others have and we don't have.

The more reality approaches our standard or goes beyond it, the better we feel. This can be an evolutionary advantage: humans who try to improve their happiness all their life, have a bigger chance to improve their life than those who don't care about happiness.

From an evolutionary point of view: then the happier your life is the better are your chances in survival and procreation and that is the drive of evolution: the survival of the species.

The eternal drive to improve the conditions of our survival is in our genes, it seems. However, we may feel happy with our job and carreer, but unhappy in our marriage.
Some say that happiness its the optimal functioning of our behavioral systems, like the job, marriage, the sport club, the group of friends.

While one behavioral system runs perfectly, another one may suck. From an evolutionary point of view it means that we don't have one drive for happiness, but many, one for each behavioral system. Natural selection likes that.

The discussion

[2011/03/24 13:23] herman Bergson: Thank you....
[2011/03/24 13:24] herman Bergson: If you have a question or a remark...the floor is yours
[2011/03/24 13:24] BALDUR Joubert: EVERYBODY HAPPY?
[2011/03/24 13:24] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[2011/03/24 13:24] BALDUR Joubert: HAPPY?
[2011/03/24 13:24] herman Bergson: YEAHHHH!!!!!
[2011/03/24 13:24] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2011/03/24 13:24] Anja Tigerfish: ^_^
[2011/03/24 13:25] Bejiita Imako: feel good for sure
[2011/03/24 13:25] herman Bergson: A happy sounding silence went through the classroom...^_^
[2011/03/24 13:25] Bejiita Imako: haha
[2011/03/24 13:25] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): is happiness a choice?
[2011/03/24 13:26] herman Bergson: I agree ..there is little question about this all ^_^
[2011/03/24 13:26] Bejiita Imako: aaa indeed but all u said is exactly how it is i'd say
[2011/03/24 13:26] herman Bergson: No is a genetically implanted drive I think
[2011/03/24 13:26] Bejiita Imako: when u r happy all is as it should be
[2011/03/24 13:27] herman Bergson: The only interesting thing is what I said in the former lecture...
[2011/03/24 13:27] BALDUR Joubert: yes but when in evolution and why did happiness occur... lets think before the arivalof mankind
[2011/03/24 13:27] herman Bergson: for centuries man had the belief that happiness was only achieved in the Afterlife...
[2011/03/24 13:28] herman Bergson: If the drive to improve survival conditions is the primary goal of organisms ..happiness was there before mankind ^_^
[2011/03/24 13:29] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): so an animal can be happy?
[2011/03/24 13:29] Mick Nerido: I think we want to be happy forever and can't in this life so we wish for it in the afterlife
[2011/03/24 13:29] herman Bergson: I would say yes....
[2011/03/24 13:29] Bejiita Imako: of course
[2011/03/24 13:29] herman Bergson: Have you ever seen the cows leaving the stables after e winter period....
[2011/03/24 13:29] Bejiita Imako: just look at a dog jumping around when it see someone it likes
[2011/03/24 13:29] herman Bergson: they act like crazy…total joy and happiness I would say
[2011/03/24 13:29] BALDUR Joubert: just dogs ?
[2011/03/24 13:30] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes, that they do commercials of in the milk packages here in sweden to come and watch
[2011/03/24 13:30] herman Bergson: no Baldur..we too :-)
[2011/03/24 13:30] Bejiita Imako: a sure spring sign
[2011/03/24 13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but does not happiness depend on the knowledge of happiness?? i don't think so about animals
[2011/03/24 13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): joy yes
[2011/03/24 13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): happiness mmmmm
[2011/03/24 13:30] herman Bergson: Well GEmma...
[2011/03/24 13:31] Kyra Neutron: wish all happy times...goes to find joy
[2011/03/24 13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): LOL
[2011/03/24 13:31] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[2011/03/24 13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye
[2011/03/24 13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): kyra
[2011/03/24 13:31] herman Bergson: wen you say..happiness is a mood....a kind of stable mental condition..a lot of organisms can experience that mood of well being I would say
[2011/03/24 13:31] Bejiita Imako: aa yes
[2011/03/24 13:31] herman Bergson: Well...for is known of animals that they can experience stress
[2011/03/24 13:32] herman Bergson: is even an issue in the bio-industry...
[2011/03/24 13:32] Zephon: animals mourn as well
[2011/03/24 13:32] herman Bergson: oh yes Zephon...
[2011/03/24 13:33] Zephon: I watched a film a mother leopard mourning for 4 days over the loss of her still born cub
[2011/03/24 13:33] Doodus Moose: Elephants seem to mourn their dead by handling their bones
[2011/03/24 13:33] herman Bergson: yes...such things happen....
[2011/03/24 13:33] herman Bergson: also well known of elephants....
[2011/03/24 13:33] Zephon: if they can mourn they can feel joy/happiness
[2011/03/24 13:34] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): i have a grumpy old's no fun at all
[2011/03/24 13:34] herman Bergson: I agree
[2011/03/24 13:34] herman Bergson: anold chagrin , Beertje?
[2011/03/24 13:34] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): old chagrin grumpy parrot
[2011/03/24 13:35] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[2011/03/24 13:35] herman Bergson smiles
[2011/03/24 13:35] Bejiita Imako: does it swear at you all time?
[2011/03/24 13:35] Mick Nerido: Is there a higherarchy of happiness?
[2011/03/24 13:35] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[2011/03/24 13:35] Zephon: When I lived in Panama I had a parrot the same .. but by times he was also very happy
[2011/03/24 13:35] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): oh yes..when he gets his spaghetty time..then he's happy!
[2011/03/24 13:36] herman Bergson: A hierarchie of happiness...Mick.....?
[2011/03/24 13:36] herman Bergson: I don't think there is an empirical base for that
[2011/03/24 13:36] Mick Nerido: List the order of what makes us most happy for instance
[2011/03/24 13:36] Zephon: I believe its a natural place for one to heal
[2011/03/24 13:36] Doodus Moose: Maslov's hierarchy of needs?
[2011/03/24 13:37] herman Bergson: yes I was thinking of that Doodus..but then we end up in all kinds of theories....
[2011/03/24 13:37] herman Bergson: and we shouldn't…
[2011/03/24 13:37] herman Bergson: what we may conclude is that happiness is a natural thing....innate in our system...
[2011/03/24 13:38] herman Bergson: And related to survival in an evolutionary sense
[2011/03/24 13:38] Zephon: So don't worry be happy :)
[2011/03/24 13:38] Bejiita Imako: aa yes
[2011/03/24 13:38] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[2011/03/24 13:39] BALDUR Joubert: happy days....
[2011/03/24 13:39] Mick Nerido: Yes the happiest survive not the strongest
[2011/03/24 13:39] herman Bergson: will come to you quite naturally....just follow your basic drives
[2011/03/24 13:39] BALDUR Joubert: well not in japan i think
[2011/03/24 13:39] herman Bergson: True Mick...
[2011/03/24 13:39] Doodus Moose: :-)
[2011/03/24 13:39] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): in Japan people are happy....
[2011/03/24 13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): they survived
[2011/03/24 13:39] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): not all...but most of them are
[2011/03/24 13:40] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): true Gemma
[2011/03/24 13:40] Mick Nerido: They are a stoic people
[2011/03/24 13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): must be terrible tho
[2011/03/24 13:40] Bejiita Imako: ah
[2011/03/24 13:41] herman Bergson: Well....I guess you are all happy now...^_^
[2011/03/24 13:41] Bejiita Imako: I am „ã°
[2011/03/24 13:41] Zephon: well they decided to nuclear but i hope things return to normal again
[2011/03/24 13:41] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): that's why i happiness a choice??...can you choose things among be happy about
[2011/03/24 13:41] Bejiita Imako: ok now I gotta go check out a thing a while
[2011/03/24 13:41] Bejiita Imako: seems to be a lot of things today to check
[2011/03/24 13:41] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[2011/03/24 13:41] herman Bergson: No I wouldn't say that happiness is a is a way of being...
[2011/03/24 13:42] Bejiita Imako: busy thursday
[2011/03/24 13:42] herman Bergson: and you can bring it about or you don't…
[2011/03/24 13:42] Ciska Riverstone: enjoy Bejiita :-)
[2011/03/24 13:42] Bejiita Imako: true
[2011/03/24 13:42] Bejiita Imako: cu
[2011/03/24 13:42] herman Bergson: The organism seeks joy and general...
[2011/03/24 13:43] herman Bergson: It is in the genes...aiming at survival...
[2011/03/24 13:43] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): ah ok..thank you
[2011/03/24 13:43] herman Bergson: Well thank you all for your participation again today...^_^
[2011/03/24 13:44] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): thank you Herman
[2011/03/24 13:44] herman Bergson: Class happy ^_^
[2011/03/24 13:44] Zephon: Thanks
[2011/03/24 13:44] Doodus Moose: (will work at it )
[2011/03/24 13:44] Mick Nerido: Thank happy to be here
[2011/03/24 13:44] Ciska Riverstone: Thank You Herman - interesting as always :)
[2011/03/24 13:44] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): laten wij allen happy wese....
[2011/03/24 13:44] BALDUR Joubert: well we never got close to the question of survival by looking at the origin of organisms and happiness..on me way it became important but under what circumstances
[2011/03/24 13:45] Anja Tigerfish: We have to say thanks
[2011/03/24 13:45] Anja Tigerfish: Thank You!!
[2011/03/24 13:45] Anja Tigerfish: ...DANKE :)))
[2011/03/24 13:45] herman Bergson: lecture will be about grief then ^_^
[2011/03/24 13:45] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): somewere it has a beginning
[2011/03/24 13:46] Doodus Moose: Thank you all - always enjoyable ;-)
[2011/03/24 13:46] herman Bergson: thank you Doodus
[2011/03/24 13:47] herman Bergson smiles
[2011/03/24 13:47] herman Bergson: You all want more????
[2011/03/24 13:47] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): yes..much more
[2011/03/24 13:47] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): laughs
[2011/03/24 13:47] herman Bergson: if that isn't a sign of joy !!!!
[2011/03/24 13:47] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): :)
[2011/03/24 13:48] Ciska Riverstone: :-) sorry - was distracted - enjoy your evening all :)
[2011/03/24 13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: thanks! herman & Class! i feel happy and content in this class :-) see u soon!
[2011/03/24 13:48] herman Bergson: Danke Bergie ^_^
[2011/03/24 13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: ih habe zu danken!
[2011/03/24 13:48] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye all :-)
[2011/03/24 13:49] :: Beertje :: (beertje.beaumont): bye all...see you all tuesday

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Thursday, March 24, 2011

312: The Brain, Joy and Happiness

Evolution created emotions as means to improve the chances on survival and procreation. Here we focus on the evolutionary development of emotions.

As the philosophical and scientific literature shows, we can discuss forever about the classification of emotions

Daniel Goleman, psychologist and writer of the book on the social IQ once had a talk with the Dalai Lama and learnt that buddhism recognized tenthousands of destructive emotions.

I think we better stick to a more simple classification as formulated by Paul Ekman(1934 -…), psychologist.

Against the view of many anthropologists, including Margaret Mead, Ekman found that facial expressions of emotion are not culturally specific, but identical for different cultures.

This fact advocated the idea that facial expressions, as Darwin once asserted, are biologically determined.

A generally accepted classification is: basic emotions and complex emotion.The complex emotions are more culturally driven and therefor evolutionary more recent.

An emotion like envy, for instance, you can't have on your own. There must be someone else to be envious of, while fear and joy can be individually experienced.

We'll follow the classification of Ekman and regard fear, joy, grief, anger, marvel and disgust as basic emotions. They come with the facial expressions, which showed to be universal.

At New Year we often wish each other a good health for the coming year, but is that our ultimate goal of happiness?

When you think it over, it becomes clear that we mainly want to be healthy because then we are closer to happiness and to knowing joy in life.

So, joy and happiness are more likely our ultimate goals than health. In the "Declaration of Independence " of the USA it is stated literally that we are endowed "with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

This is an interesting statement, for to see the pursuit of happiness as a human right, implies at least that it makes sense to pursue happiness.

Does it also promise us, that when we pursue happiness, we also will achieve it? Do we believe that today?

If so, where does this idea come from, because a lot of people still believe that real happiness will only be found in the afterlife.

It was during the Enlightenment in the 17th and 18th century, that the Idea emerged that a human being can achieve happiness in THIS earthly life.

Happiness now was called the normal condition of man, not a gift of God or a twist of fate, but something that man is entitled to by nature, something, which could be achieved by everyone.

Joy and happiness can be regarded as the most positive emotions and yet there is little scientific literature about them.

One reason is of course, that the concept of happiness is pretty vague and no one has as yet found a satisfactory definition for joy and happiness.

Let's not wind up in an endless debate about the definition of happiness and joy for the moment, but listen to a philosopher of the enlightenment, John Locke (1632 -1704).

Some of you may think, ok…. joy is indeed an emotion, but happiness is more a state of being. True, joy is more a part of happiness.

According to Locke happiness consisted of a combination of joys. But what combination of how many joys? At least Locke is right, that experiencing joy, increases the chance to feel happy.

Next lecture we'll go into detail and explain how evolution wired our brain with the possibility to experience joy and happiness and what it means evolutionary, that happiness is our goal in life.

The Discussion

[13:22] herman Bergson: Thank you...and be happy ^_^
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:22] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:22] Doodus Moose: a baby smiles when you give it attention - is that joy or programming?
[13:23] herman Bergson: THAT is a real special thing doodus...
[13:23] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): heard that question before...
[13:23] herman Bergson: It shows that joy is innate...
[13:23] BALDUR Joubert: facial expression.... inborn
[13:23] herman Bergson: indeed Baldur...
[13:23] Doodus Moose: perhaps a part of innocence?
[13:23] herman Bergson: I dont see the connection Doodus
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: lol joy -happinesss and now innocense?
[13:24] Mick Nerido: Is laughter Joy or happiness?
[13:24] herman Bergson: innocence is a pretty religious concept
[13:24] BALDUR Joubert: we will get lost in words...
[13:24] herman Bergson: Laughter is joy Mick
[13:24] Doodus Moose: innocence as opposed to the complexities we learn
[13:24] Doodus Moose: sarcasm, pity, etc
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: now i feel a sudden joy
[13:25] herman Bergson: I think you should keep in mind the disticntion between basic and complex emotions
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: cause LHC have broken a NEW WORLD RECORD
[13:25] BALDUR Joubert: a child ripping of the legs of a spider..sarcasm or innocense?
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: highest power ever now
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:25] herman Bergson: what you are refering to Doodus are complex feelings
[13:25] Mick Nerido: People laugh differently so do they experience joy differently?
[13:26] Blackrose Baroque: [13:24] BALDUR Joubert: a child ripping of the legs of a spider..sarcasm or innocnese? how can you find any joy or hapiness in this?
[13:26] BALDUR Joubert: a child could...
[13:26] herman Bergson: It is even more complex Mick....some people shed tears while they are infact absolutely happy
[13:26] Mick Nerido: tears of joy
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: ah yes that can also be a reaction
[13:27] Doodus Moose: that was my father as he experienced music - his only demonstrated emotion
[13:27] Blackrose Baroque: yes my mommy always cries when she is so happy
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: i've experienced that too
[13:27] Mick Nerido: Me also
[13:27] herman Bergson: Interesting point Doodus..I'll get to that in the next lecture
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: you laugh and cry at same time
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: really overwhelming feeling
[13:28] Mick Nerido: Laughter is involentary but we laugh at differn things at different timmes in our lives does joy evolve?
[13:29] herman Bergson: You can write a book about laughter..
[13:29] herman Bergson: Aristotle did...
[13:30] herman Bergson: and in The name of the Rose by Umberto Ecco it ended up in the destruction of a monestery by fire...^_^
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: I laugh a lot cause feels really nice
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: and when i feel really good i can let it go until i rol on the floor laughing
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: aristoteles did' ? didn't it but in the name of the rose:)?
[13:30] Bejiita Imako: really nice feeling
[13:30] Mick Nerido: Not copies left?
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: happens kind of often when i'm here in sl
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:31] BALDUR Joubert: sena connery couldn't save
[13:31] herman Bergson: No he couldnt Baldur :-((
[13:31] BALDUR Joubert: laughter lost for us.......
[13:32] herman Bergson: By the way..watched La guerre du feu last night Baldur...
[13:32] herman Bergson: but that among us
[13:32] herman Bergson: ok...
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: smile ok we'll talk that over one day:)
[13:32] herman Bergson: what it is all about ia how joy and happiness are wired in the brain by evolution...
[13:33] Doodus Moose: perhaps building on reward and avoidance (hippocampus)?
[13:33] herman Bergson: next lecture I'll give you the evolutionary picture...
[13:33] BALDUR Joubert: help....
[13:34] Bejiita Imako: oki
[13:34] herman Bergson: Is there a doctor in the room...Baldur is calling for help!!!
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: please make a clear distinction between evolution and development of brain
[13:34] Mick Nerido: Why did it say presuit of rather than the attainment of happiness?
[13:34] herman Bergson: oh yes Baldur...
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: one genetics the other physical...
[13:34] Doodus Moose: a pursuit does not guarantee attainment
[13:35] herman Bergson: No Doodus...
[13:35] herman Bergson: that is the mystery of happiness…
[13:35] Mick Nerido: it could have been written the right to happiness
[13:35] herman Bergson: are you happy.....??? they alway yell...and the public answers YYYEEEAAAAHHHH
[13:36] BALDUR Joubert: happiness is in the pursuit say some wise men:)
[13:36] Doodus Moose: :-)
[13:36] herman Bergson: I read a book about the history of happiness...the idea of happiness to be exact...
[13:36] herman Bergson: and after reading the book I wasn't happy at all..kind of disappointed actually ^_^
[13:37] Mick Nerido: No happy ending
[13:37] herman Bergson: 450 pages for no happiness :-)
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: gone with the wind lol
[13:37] herman Bergson: no happy ending indeed Mick :-)
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:38] Mick Nerido: I bet the author was happy when he finished the book
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: that sound not good, if its about happiness it should make u happy at least
[13:38] Blackrose Baroque: lol Mick
[13:38] herman Bergson: lol I guess he was...
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:38] Anja Tigerfish: Hihihi
[13:39] herman Bergson: Well..let's wait till next lecture...maybe afterwards you might feel a little happier then
[13:39] herman Bergson: So..thank you all for your participation...
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: just one more question..
[13:39] herman Bergson: See you next Thursday in our search for happiness...:-)
[13:40] herman Bergson: Sure Baldur go ahead
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: sounds nice Herman ㋡
[13:40] BALDUR Joubert: you talked about cutural and ..wait....
[13:40] herman Bergson: I wait...:-)
[13:41] BALDUR Joubert: sorry, lol i ave to scroll back..
[13:41] herman Bergson: we all wait ^_^ ...
[13:41] BALDUR Joubert:
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:41] herman Bergson: yes basic and complex emotions...
[13:42] BALDUR Joubert: basic ..what do you mean with basic in contrast to cultural...
[13:42] Blackrose Baroque: dripping icecream on my skirt..
[13:42] herman Bergson: Blackrose..plz!!! Watch out
[13:42] herman Bergson: Well...
[13:42] Blackrose Baroque: sorry sir:)
[13:42] BALDUR Joubert: someone give blackrose a kleenex?
[13:42] herman Bergson: important point Baldur...
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: heheh
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: u should eat it BEFORE it melts then
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:43] Blackrose Baroque: ow..yes?
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: but thats tricky and u dont wanna rush something tasty
[13:43] herman Bergson: The basic idea about emotions in an evolutionary sense is that they helped us to survive and procreate..
[13:43] Blackrose Baroque: this is my happiness icecream
[13:43] BALDUR Joubert: ok.. survival codes
[13:43] herman Bergson: yes...
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: which also use to leave my clothes in a mess afterwards, at least if its a warm day
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: heh
[13:44] Doodus Moose: hence the line from the movie "what do i see in him - he makes me laugh".
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: especially in social groups
[13:44] herman Bergson: emotions were the mechanisms that made social behavior possible...
[13:44] BALDUR Joubert: ok..agree
[13:44] herman Bergson: the basic emotions like fear and joy can be experiences individually...
[13:44] herman Bergson: with them you can survive...
[13:45] BALDUR Joubert: hm...
[13:45] herman Bergson: the complex emotions are culturally determined in the sense that you need the other for that ..
[13:45] BALDUR Joubert: so microbes have fear anr joy?¨
[13:45] herman Bergson: envy is such an emotion..
[13:45] herman Bergson: you only can be envious of someone else...
[13:46] BALDUR Joubert: i mean simple organisms live much longer than complex ones...
[13:46] herman Bergson: sexual jealousy is such an emotion...
[13:46] herman Bergson: that is not true far so good...we are still here!
[13:46] BALDUR Joubert: you said individulal experience.. that would mean independent of a social environment
[13:47] herman Bergson: and I claim that we are the most complex ones on this planet ^_^
[13:47] Blackrose Baroque: i think it's important to makes a bond between people..
[13:47] Blackrose Baroque: when you some get a smile back
[13:47] herman Bergson: yes...I can experience fear not related to others
[13:47] Mick Nerido: People joke a lot when they are afraid
[13:48] herman Bergson: we will get to that in the next lecture Blackrose!
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: yes and when someone laygh u start laughing as well
[13:48] BALDUR Joubert: exist longer smile sorry.. i hat to be imprecise:)
[13:48] Bejiita Imako: just the sound make u do that
[13:48] BALDUR Joubert: smile but i think we have to get deeper into lets laugh theories lol
[13:48] BALDUR Joubert: in class..
[13:48] Doodus Moose: what proceses causes another to sneeze once someone else sneezes?
[13:48] Doodus Moose: (just wondering)
[13:48] BALDUR Joubert: hayfever dood?
[13:49] Doodus Moose: or yawning
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: hmm that i have never experienced howeever
[13:49] Blackrose Baroque: nome either
[13:49] Bejiita Imako: yawning however
[13:49] herman Bergson: it is a common phenomenon Doodus...mimicry it is called I think...
[13:49] BALDUR Joubert: oh you sneeze when you yawn' '
[13:49] Mick Nerido: I have to walk my dogs bye...
[13:49] Blackrose Baroque: bye Mick
[13:49] BALDUR Joubert: some fart ..grin.. sorry but
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: when everyone around you seem to be bored and tired u get also the same way, cause thats the general feeling in the place sort of
[13:50] herman Bergson: copying the gestures of other to show social connection
[13:50] BALDUR Joubert: mirror neurons.. smile they pop up all the time:)
[13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i was logged out
[13:50] herman Bergson: Are you ok Gemma???
[13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ☆*¨¨*:• I'm Back! What'd I Miss?? •:*¨¨*☆
[13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Hey!
[13:50] Bejiita Imako: wb Gemma
[13:50] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:50] BALDUR Joubert: fun -joy and happiness gemma:)
[13:51] Blackrose Baroque: you missed a lot of joy Gemma
[13:51] Anja Tigerfish: -WB
[13:51] Bejiita Imako: YAY! (yay!)
[13:51] herman Bergson: ok..I think next lecture will be fun then....:-)
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:52] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): i wil have to read the blog of this one
[13:52] Doodus Moose: time to eat over here - thanks everyone!!
[13:52] herman Bergson: Thank you all....
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: cu Doodus ㋡
[13:52] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ^_^
[13:52] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:52] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:52] Ciska Riverstone: Thank You herman - thanx everyone - enjoy :-)
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: oki
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: cu next time then ㋡
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: and some of u in a while
[13:52] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: nice as usual this
[13:53] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:53] Blackrose Baroque: thank you sir for the lecture
[13:53] herman Bergson: My pleasure Blackrose
[13:53] Blackrose Baroque: bye bye

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Sunday, March 20, 2011

311: The Brain and Social Emotions

In the last two lectures I have drawn your attention to the fact that the subject of our current project is not just an interesting philosophical topic in general, but a hot issue in science and in the public debate nowaday.

Now it's time to revert to our plotted course again and focus on the biological and evolutionary roots of our basic emotions.

In lecture 306 I stated that emotions are biological systems, just like blood pressure or reflexes or the working of enzymes. They are not, as often is assumed, jammers or annoying obstacles that frustrate the ratio.

Another thing we have to keep in mind is, that when you look at the evolution of the brain, emotions developed prior to our so highly valued rationality.

In lecture 307 I defined emotion thus: Emotions show themselves by feelings, for instance fear, but the emotion is much more than just that feeling.

Thence, an emotion is a driving force which as an orchestra conductor ensures that a number of specific behavioral systems run in parallel and work together to solve an acute problem.

The emotion pushes all actions of the person for instance in fear into one direction. And it is through evolution that we have developed this system of emotions, which ensures our survival and ability to live as a social being.

Before we go into detail about some basic emotions, their individual functions and evolutionary advantages, we have to consider an interesting view.

It is regarding the biological function of emotions. They emerged in the evolutionary process. They were transferred and inherited from generation onto generation.

It means, that probably the basic emotions made us fittest for survival, which means best adapted to our environment. This environment was the group.

Thomas Hobbes (1588 - 1679) had no idea of an evolution of emotions, but yet he was to the point by stating that the fear of death and the need for security are the psychological foundations both of worldly prudence and of civilization itself.

“Reason,” he said, “declaring peace to be good, it follows by the same reason, that all the necessary means to peace be good also”, otherwise there would be no society, and the life of man would be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”

It is philosophically characteristic that Hobbes bases the inevitability of social behavior on reason, while from an evolutionary point of view we now know that human sociality is primarily based on emotions, as defined here.

It is interesting to think of it, that in those days many philosophers were convinced of the idea that society was based on some kind of social contract, formulated by our reason.

But in fact the situation is much more basic. Nowaday we cover all our obligations and those of others with signed contracts and legal stuff.

However, a hundred thousand years ago our ancestors didn't even dream of contracts. Yet they had contracts, like the evolution biologist Robert Trivers states.

An emotion is a contract. To survive people had to co-operate, for instance in building a shelter or in hunting down a mammoth.

Such mutual co-operation is fragile. It could be easily destroyed by individual greed and dishonesty, but the social power of emotions has found solutions for that.

On solution which made the evolution of mutual co-operation possible was to punish the group member immediately for cheating and deception.

A second solution was to "sign" a contract of mutual co-operation with a social emotion, which we for instance could call "guilt' or a feeling of obligation.

Maybe you doubt this idea, thinking that you'd rather prefer a clear and rational agreement without the need to count on emotions.

But that is probably a consequence of our deeply ingrained attitude to keep emotions out and prefer rationality.

This however underestimates the power of our basic emotions. The gnawing power of guilt is stronger than we think, than we rationally are willing to believe.

Of course the "emotion signature" isn't absolute. There have always been people who cheat and deceive, steal and murder,

but the basic emotions have in general directed our behavior in the best direction to solve (social) problems, otherwise evolution hadn't produced a homo sapiens capable of such complex social behavior as we see today.

It may be clear by now, that our brain, which we almost automatically equate with ratio and intelligence, can not be separated from emotions and feelings.

In the following lectures I'll discuss the basic emotions of Joy and Happiness, Grief, Anger, Marvel, Loathing and Disgust, Shame, Guilt and Pride. So, be ready for it…..

The Discussion

[13:24] herman Bergson: Thank you....for your attention...:-)
[13:24] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:24] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): feels guilty ....
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: hahahah
[13:24] herman Bergson: you were in IM GEmma????lol
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: Shame on u Gemma!
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:24] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:24] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): in the kitchen
[13:24] Qwark Allen: l ☺ ☻ ☺ l
[13:24] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:24] Bejiita Imako: hahaha
[13:24] Mick Nerido: Emotions=instincts?
[13:24] herman Bergson: lol...
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: eating as usual?
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: hehe
[13:25] herman Bergson: Don't know is just a word...
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: need to stuff myself with something soon
[13:25] herman Bergson: but to some extend I think you are right
[13:25] Bejiita Imako: some tasty stuff
[13:26] herman Bergson: stuff isn't tasty Bejiita????? :-)
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: yes but u can't eat it
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:26] Mick Nerido: Like an animal "knows" what to do without rational thought
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: well my brain maybe
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:26] herman Bergson: no only can digest it...^_^
[13:26] Bejiita Imako: true
[13:27] herman Bergson: ok...let's make it a lazy day...nothing to discuss ..^_^
[13:27] Qwark Allen: i just have one remark
[13:27] BALDUR Joubert: i think the most important question is . which emotions are inherited,to say genetically based..which introduced by culture..
[13:27] herman Bergson: Gemma is in the kitchen...Bejiita needs some good it
[13:27] Alarice von Doobie (alarice.beaumont): oh.. need to go .. sorry
[13:27] Mick Nerido: I rushed home to be here...:)
[13:27] Qwark Allen: ~when they said 100 000 years, to me seems short
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:27] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oops too late
[13:28] Qwark Allen: cause our specie is in this planet at , at least 500 000
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: sapiens is about 100 000 years
[13:28] Qwark Allen: i`m talking about sapiens
[13:28] Qwark Allen: us
[13:28] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): well i do not think with the same sensibilities
[13:28] Qwark Allen: so this should be more ancient then it seems
[13:28] BALDUR Joubert: you Q.yes
[13:29] Qwark Allen: seems logical that this kind of behaviour it`s among us at a long time
[13:29] herman Bergson: no Qwark.....just look at the evolution diagram at the wall
[13:30] Qwark Allen: they just found out a tooth from a homo sapiens, with 400 000 years
[13:30] herman Bergson: The homo habilis , 2.5 million years ago was able to create tools
[13:30] Qwark Allen: at israel
[13:30] BALDUR Joubert: Africa Q
[13:30] Qwark Allen: asia
[13:30] Qwark Allen: euro asia
[13:30] herman Bergson: Welll...could be at the level of neandethaler....
[13:30] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes africa was before asia
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): all came out of africa
[13:31] Qwark Allen: at a point there was 5 different hominides
[13:31] Bejiita Imako: Africa is where we come from originally
[13:31] Qwark Allen: including us
[13:31] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): amazing we made it
[13:31] Mick Nerido: The Neanderthaler has a bad rep
[13:31] BALDUR Joubert: they showed he was much better than his reputation mick
[13:32] herman Bergson: but our level of development is of the late pleistocene...40.000 years ago..the cro magnon for instance
[13:32] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): yes and there was some inter breeding as well they say
[13:32] BALDUR Joubert: and they existed longer than we did under difficult conditions
[13:33] herman Bergson: Yes Gemma...amazing we made it....the right words
[13:33] Qwark Allen: there is not in the wall, the homo hobit, that was a sapiens too
[13:33] BALDUR Joubert: amazing THEY made it:)
[13:33] herman Bergson: and amazing how we screw up now ^_^
[13:33] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:33] Bejiita Imako: haha
[13:33] Mick Nerido: Clan of the cave bears a good read about Neanderthals
[13:34] Qwark Allen: just saying that human history is not totally as how they told it was
[13:34] herman Bergson: yes..nice literature Mick....loved it
[13:34] BALDUR Joubert: la guerre du feu a good movie....
[13:34] herman Bergson: Yes I have seen it Baldur....was great indeed
[13:34] Qwark Allen: just fiction, like star wars
[13:35] herman Bergson: calculated guessing Qwark...
[13:35] Qwark Allen: bad calculation
[13:35] Qwark Allen: l ☺ ☻ ☺ l
[13:35] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:35] herman Bergson: which is not the case in Starwars...
[13:35] Mick Nerido: But the author postulated they were smart but were not able to adapt like us
[13:35] Qwark Allen: that a possible calculation, based in our grow as science
[13:35] BALDUR Joubert: smile how long will we adapt mick:)?
[13:36] herman Bergson: Why the Neanderthalers disappeared we'll never know...
[13:36] Qwark Allen: we know
[13:36] Qwark Allen: they were not so good prepared as us
[13:36] Qwark Allen: and they mixed with us
[13:36] Qwark Allen: last ones found was in iberic peninsule, 15000 years ago
[13:36] Mick Nerido: I see a lot of Neanderthals at WallMart
[13:36] Qwark Allen: around the ice age
[13:37] herman Bergson: but the brain of the Neanderthaler was larger than that of the homo sapiens...
[13:37] Qwark Allen: cause of this we have micro cefalie
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: they were well prepared for more than 100000 years Q
[13:37] Qwark Allen: in our genes
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Hnnn Hnnn Hnnn ! ҳ̸Ҳ̸ҳ
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): I want a Big Fish
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Gimme
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Gimme a Big Fish
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): Pleasssseee !!!!!
[13:37] Qwark Allen: l ☺ ☻ ☺ l
[13:37] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): OOPS
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hahah not fishing yet Gemma
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): SOME TRIGGER
[13:37] herman Bergson: Gemma???
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:37] herman Bergson: Are you ok???
[13:37] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): YES
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[13:37] BALDUR Joubert: food poisoning.....
[13:38] BALDUR Joubert: affects the brain.:)
[13:38] herman Bergson: Seems so Baldur...
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: hahah
[13:38] herman Bergson: A bit of a weird class today ^_^
[13:38] Qwark Allen whispers: it is
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: lol
[13:38] Bejiita Imako: fun as always
[13:38] Qwark Allen: it`s stills about evolution ^^
[13:38] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): :-)
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: st patricks day for our american friends.. too much to drink i think lol
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:39] herman Bergson: Yes...but I am puzzled by the results I find in my class today ^_^
[13:39] Mick Nerido: St Patrics Day too much green bear
[13:39] Qwark Allen: i`m portuguese ^^
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: heheh
[13:39] Mick Nerido: Beer
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: mmm beeeer
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: nobody is perfect Q lol
[13:39] herman Bergson: Gemma must be Irish then ^_^
[13:39] Qwark Allen: i know ehehhe
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): not really
[13:39] Qwark Allen: l ☺ ☻ ☺ l
[13:39] Qwark Allen: lol
[13:39] Mick Nerido: Spring feaver?
[13:39] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): some part
[13:39] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:39] BALDUR Joubert: katarina, she's the only one in green....
[13:40] katarina Bianco: :)
[13:40] Qwark Allen: i just said about late science developments
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): but everyone is irish here on st pat's day
[13:40] herman Bergson: I must appologize Katarina....the class is really misbehaving....never happened before
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: hmm and the new party place is decorated for this day right?
[13:40] herman Bergson: Must be spring fever indeed
[13:40] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh right
[13:40] Qwark Allen: yes bejita
[13:40] Bejiita Imako: so after this we can celebrate st patricks there
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: nice
[13:41] BALDUR Joubert: its all emotions katarina:)
[13:41] katarina Bianco: I like green color and beer.. for me every day is St. Patrick day :)
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: and yes I have spring fever
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: but tomorrow should be at least 10 cm snow and ice again AAARRRRGGGH
[13:41] BALDUR Joubert: hey.. ..a smart girl amongst us welcome kat....
[13:41] Bejiita Imako: tired of snow now
[13:42] katarina Bianco: ty
[13:42] Mick Nerido: WE feel safe here so we show the emotion of happiness
[13:42] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): oh no
[13:42] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): snow?
[13:42] herman Bergson laughs
[13:42] herman Bergson: Good thinking Mick
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: yes so they told in the weather report for sweden
[13:42] Mick Nerido: thanks
[13:42] herman Bergson: But I would say: CLASS DISMISSED
[13:42] Qwark Allen: Hooooooo!!!!!!! \o/
[13:42] Qwark Allen: |
[13:42] Qwark Allen: / \
[13:42] Qwark Allen: ☮☮☮☮☮☮☮☮
[13:42] Qwark Allen: Hoooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[13:42] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ♥ LOL ♥
[13:42] Gemma Allen (gemma.cleanslate): ok
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: oki
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:43] Qwark Allen: ¸¸.☆´ ¯¨☆.¸¸`☆** **☆´ ¸¸.☆¨¯`☆ H E R MA N ☆´ ¯¨☆.¸¸`☆** **☆´ ¸¸.☆¨¯`
[13:43] Qwark Allen: ty
[13:43] herman Bergson: enjoy your next hours...have seems to be in your blood at the moment!
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: some more interesting subjects to think of
[13:43] Qwark Allen: was missing class
[13:43] Qwark Allen: .-)
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