Tuesday, March 3, 2020

831: The Real World....

In "Lord of the Flies" (1954) William Golding showed us how a group of young boys turned into wild animals, when alone on an uninhabited island.
This, however, was all fiction. Suppose it would really happen or have happened, that a group of boys would end up on a desert island?
It has happened! And did happen what happened with the boys in "Lord of the Flies"?
Tonga, officially named the Kingdom of Tonga, is a Polynesian sovereign state and archipelago comprising 169 islands, of which 36 are inhabited.
ʻAta is a small, rocky island in the far south of the Tonga archipelago, situated on 22°20′30″S 176°12′30″W. 
It should not be confused with ʻAtā, which is an uninhabited, low coral island in the string of small atolls along the Piha passage along the north side of Tongatapu, the main island of Tonga.
That is what Google Earth does, when you search on "Ata island".  The real Ata is 161 km south-weßst of Tongatapu.
What is the story here? Six boys , 15 to 17 years old, wanted some adventure and sail to New Zealand or something like that.
They got into a storm, however, sail damaged, and eight days out on the sea until they ended up on the uninhabited island 'Ata.
Every day they began with singing and praying. The boys agreed to work in pairs and made a tight schedule. 

Two were working in the vegetable garden, two were cooking, and two were on the lookout. 

Sometimes they had a fight, but when that happened, they parted. One to one side of the island, the other to the other, until they had cooled.
"After about four hours we brought the fighters together again," Mano, one of the boys, would later say. "Okay, and now say sorry," we said. That way we remained friends. "
After 18 months on the island they were discovered and rescued by a skipper, named Peter Warner.
Here, https://www.pressreader.com/australia/the-gympie-times/20141212/282522951804269 you'll find an article (December 12, 2014) with more details and information about this.
Of course, this is just one real life story and the cynical pessimist immediately will say, it certainly could have gone wrong as well.
Fact is that Golding's book is fiction, but still is read and  that the "Ata story" is almost forgotten until Rutger Bregman dug it up again.
And such a story quickly fades into the background, because we are fed daily with the "Lord of the Flies" scenario.
We use to call it "reality-TV".  "The Real World "(known as "Real World" from 2014 to 2017) is a reality television series produced through MTV since 1992. 

Seven to eight young adults are picked to temporarily live in a new city together in one residence while being filmed non-stop.

The narration given over the opening title sequence used during the first 28 seasons by the seven housemates states some variation of the following:

"This is the true story…of seven strangers…picked to live in a house…(work together) and have their lives taped…
to find out what happens…when people stop being polite…and start getting real…The Real World."
Did you notice the word  REAL....????!!!

In the Netherlands we had "Big Brother" and "Temptation Island". I only know the titles.
Lying, cheating, hurting and insulting, every time it is presented as "realistic" and "real". 
But anyone who looks behind the scenes of the production of such programs will be shocked by the amount of deception 
that is needed to bring out the worst in people. Candidates are lied to, fed drunk and played against each other.
As you see, not only the news programs, but also this kind of TV programs keeps feeding our belief, that most people are not OK.
Thank you for your attention...

Main Sources:
MacMillan The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 2nd edition
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, 1995
Rutger Bregman, "De meeste mensen deugen",, 2019

The Discussion

[13:14] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed these HORRID reality soaps
[13:15] CB Axel: I don't watch those shows and refuse to call them "reality" programs.
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or as I call them DFF Soaps
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Drink Fight and Fuck soaps
[13:15] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its insane
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well i would probably lie and cheat if I were trying to get a million dollars
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:15] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:15] CB Axel: LOL
[13:15] herman Bergson: I read about a British program where they tried this REAL LIFE thing with a group of children....
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): the crew are tell behind scenes that the girls and boys had to fight, otherwise the programm was too dull
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they are shaming themselves out and people think this shit is fun to watch?
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I don't get it
[13:16] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sighs
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i think so too Beertje
[13:16] herman Bergson: Exactly Beertje....!
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): at least encourage
[13:16] herman Bergson: Thay is what they did with the children
[13:16] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if they live in harmony, nobody would watch every day
[13:16] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): goodness no
[13:17] herman Bergson: We have great difficulty to believe that we do good.....
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they exposed children to this sort of things?
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:17] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): we could have class there every day
[13:17] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): how horrid!
[13:17] CB Axel: I agree, Bejiita.
[13:17] herman Bergson: What I read...it has happened
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to even put kids in a show like that is not right
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I say the one who came up with the idea for these DFF soaps should be drowned SLOWLY!
[13:18] Rebecca (rebecca.rozen) is offline.
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) GIGGLES!!
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): ...LOL...
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): well bej
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): you are terrible too
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): they are all on the tv here too
[13:18] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): it's about money Bejiita
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yes
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but at least I can skip watching it
[13:18] CB Axel: For parents to allow their children to participate in a show like that is incredible.
[13:18] herman Bergson: We even are inclined to become on alert, when people seem to be altruisticly kind to us...
[13:18] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and where were the parents ??
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): luckily
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but still
[13:18] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): terrible idea for entertainment
[13:18] CB Axel: They sold their children basically.
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): evil idea id say
[13:19] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): true
[13:19] herman Bergson: Ohh...makes me think of a TV program I recently saw....
[13:19] CB Axel: I don't understand why people watch those.
[13:19] herman Bergson: it is about crimes and they ask the public's help....
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sexy almost naked people I guess
[13:19] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA!
[13:19] herman Bergson: But ti inspires to distrust really everyone....
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wow thats' drama Bejiita:))
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed it gives the totally wrong idea about people for ure
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): sure
[13:20] herman Bergson: They show an old lady who was attacked and robbed in her own house by some 'friendly' people
[13:20] CB Axel: My older brother and his wife watch Survivor. I don't understand why.
[13:20] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): which program was that Herman?
[13:20] herman Bergson: Opsporing verzocht
[13:20] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): those soaps are lord of the flies scenarios provoked by the tv crews for entertainment purposes
[13:21] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): ok
[13:21] CB Axel: But why is watching people act like animals entertaining?
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so I guess thats where lot of pessimism about everyone being bad comes from, these shows
[13:21] herman Bergson: The advise.....NEVER OPEN YOUR DOOR FOR STRANGER, whatever friendly they seem to be
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): actually i started watching it during the 1016 election time
[13:21] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): to get away from that reality!!!!!!
[13:22] CB Axel: Now the US has a "reality" TV "star" as president.
[13:22] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): yep
[13:22] CB Axel: I guess people thought he'd be entertaining.
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (shudders) so very and sadly true
[13:22] herman Bergson: Not really, CB....
[13:22] CB Axel: He wouldn't last a second on Ata.
[13:22] herman Bergson: you are not made to believe that he is corrupt and dishonest.....he just is :-)
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and that is NOT fake news or a made up soap!
[13:23] herman Bergson: indeed Bejiita :-)
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): trump has to go
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and fast
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): scary thinking if not
[13:24] herman Bergson: Our problem is that just a minority of people are really bad......but they get on the frontpages and news shows...
[13:24] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): very true
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): too much attention they get
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): for sure
[13:25] herman Bergson: The belief in our evil nature is so strong and deeply rooted....
[13:25] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and they love the attention
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): but im sure no one is interested in for ex my daily troddle to the workplace every morning
[13:25] herman Bergson: Yes Beertje....we are telling each other day in day out how BAD the world is....
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): or similar
[13:25] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:26] herman Bergson: Maybe you are mistaken Bejiita.....
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well sure my life is not that remarkable but im a nice guy and this have given me lot of nice friends also
[13:26] herman Bergson: We NEVER have learnt to be interested in the good thing, but so much better we have learnt to be scared of the bad things
[13:26] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so im happy
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): if criminals don't get attention in any way anymore...would there be so many crimes?
[13:27] herman Bergson: Well...maybe to some extend indeed Beertje......
[13:27] CB Axel: I don't think the crime rate would go down much.
[13:27] herman Bergson: A certain percentage of crime is commited just to look REAL. TOUGH, A MAN....
[13:27] CB Axel: A few "copycat" crimes might not happen, but there aren't that many of those.
[13:28] CB Axel: Yes, Herman. What I call hypermacho bullshit.
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): also there are actions that are marked criminal that should perhaps not be
[13:28] CB Axel: That's true, Gemma.
[13:28] herman Bergson: Like the possession of a little weet
[13:28] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): our jails are full of sick people
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): mentally that is
[13:29] herman Bergson: but what is the cause of this mental illness, Gemma?
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): or a combo of physical addiction
[13:29] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): and mental illness
[13:29] CB Axel: Some mental illness is organic.
[13:29] CB Axel: It just happens.
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): many mental illness is not treated
[13:30] herman Bergson: The peculiar fact too is, that your jails are mainly filled with colored people...
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): much I should say
[13:30] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): could it be that the computers games are too violent for youngsters?
[13:30] CB Axel: Some, like addiction, is cause, I believe, by despair.
[13:30] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): that is very true too
[13:30] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:31] herman Bergson: That's an old story Beeertje...lots of inconclusive research on that
[13:31] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): it has been mostly proven they do not
[13:31] herman Bergson: indeed, Gemma
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): except if the child is already ill to be gin with
[13:32] CB Axel: People feel hopeless. They can't get jobs that pay a living wage. They can't stay in a healthy relationship with another person. They're just unhappy, so they self-medicate with alcohol, illegal drugs, legal opiates. etc.
[13:32] herman Bergson: yes...and look at the violence on TV is series and movies
[13:32] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): there are so many forms of mental illness that are mild or not even seen until latr
[13:32] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): very true
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): something have happened to thee people somewhere among the way. Abused, no one caring about them, no job/money to live the day ect
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that can create and feed criminality for sure
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): i am afraid i have to go now... I'm Sorry! rl hollering
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate): I sorry..
[13:34] CB Axel: Bye, Gemma.
[13:34] Gemma (gemma.cleanslate) is offline.
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): oki Gemma
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu
[13:35] herman Bergson: We won't see it happen in our lifetime, but mankind has to find a way out of this negative self image....the debate on this issue has started...atleast that is what we see
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): when has the negative self image started?
[13:36] herman Bergson: Awareness grows only slowly
[13:36] herman Bergson: ohh...so long ago, Beertje....the moment Eva ate from that apple....BAD GIRL!
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): she was hungry
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahah
[13:37] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): eating healthy things
[13:37] herman Bergson: impossible living in a paradise :-)
[13:37] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well when things like healthy stuff and sexual pleasure etc are seen as sins well u get the idea
[13:38] herman Bergson: SO you are a big sinner, Bejiita? :-))
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and instead eating junk food etc and beig lazy is the good way to go
[13:38] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): hahaha
[13:40] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): and sure I can be lazy now and then and similar but that I compensate for by being active about at least 70 to 80% in total I think
[13:41] herman Bergson: Let me conclude today with an optimistic belief.....:-)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:41] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): that we are healthy sinners:)
[13:41] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): thats a good statement
[13:41] herman Bergson: It si inevitable that mankind must come to the conclusion that most people are ok and that this must guide our policies....
[13:42] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so true
[13:42] CB Axel: Good luck with that.
[13:42] Ciska Riverstone is online.
[13:42] herman Bergson: It's going to be a long and winding road that leads to that door....but one day we'll open it...even if it may take 300 years...
[13:43] herman Bergson: Let me give you an actual example....
[13:43] herman Bergson: many believed in the free market and unlimited capitalism......
[13:43] herman Bergson: even the most fanatic capitalists begin to see that it doesn't work in the long run
[13:44] herman Bergson: Econimists like Pickety show the proof
[13:44] herman Bergson: It won't change the greed of today in a minute.....but the debate has started.....you can no longer deny it.....
[13:45] herman Bergson: same with the climate change debate.....there still are deniers.....but we HAVE to change our way of production.....
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): u have to learn to get satisfied and not believing in infinite growth
[13:45] herman Bergson: for instance, Bejiita
[13:45] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): that too
[13:45] CB Axel: You are far more optimistic than I am.
[13:46] herman Bergson: in other words...I stilll believe in a future for mankind ^_^
[13:46] CB Axel: I keep seeing unfettered capitalism still being supported.
[13:46] herman Bergson: I know CB, but I keep on trying to get you where I am :-)
[13:46] CB Axel: :)
[13:46] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:47] herman Bergson: So....thank you all again....
[13:47] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:47] herman Bergson: Class dismissed.....
[13:47] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Thank you Herman

[13:47] CB Axel: I'll see you all next week.

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