Thursday, February 27, 2020

830: The Realistic view of Man......

“I should have thought,” said the officer as he visualized the search before him, “I should have thought that a pack of British boys
—you’re all British, aren’t you?—would have been able to put up a better show than that—I mean—” 
“It was like that at first,” said Ralph, “before things—” He stopped. “We were together then—”  

This is a quote from the last paragraphs of the book "Lord of the Flies" written by William Golding (1911 - 1993).
Do you know the story? A plane crash on an uninhabited island. A group of children in the ages of 6 to 12 are the only survivors. No adults present....
Here you'll find the whole novel fo 290 pages:

The story was used twice for movies, the first time in 1963 and the second time in 1990.
-quote- The winner of the 1983 Nobel Prize in Literature, William Golding is among the most popular 
and influential British authors to have emerged in the second half of the twentieth century. 
Golding's reputation rests primarily upon his first novel, Lord of the Flies (1954), which is consistently regarded 
as an effective and disturbing portrayal of the fragility of civilization. -end quote-
Effective and what sense? Golding's belief was that even if we would be born and begin life with a blank sheet, then yet our nature would force us to make a mess of it,
or as he once said: " Man produces evil like a bee produces honey"
This belief in the form of his book was translated in more than 30 languages. Millions of copies of "Lord of the Flies" were sold all over the world.
From -quote- Golding's book about the fall of society and how humans are really animals at heart and when all rules are removed, the "beast" is let loose. 
The book is full of metaphors, For example the title "The Lord of The Flies" means Satan. 
The title was originally "Strangers From Within" this again represents how fragile human society is and how different we all are when the rules are removed. 
There is a lot of mention in the book to the "beast". This again is just another form of satan and how he can corrupt man- 
eventually making the character Jack to go mad and lead the rest of the tribe to kill Simon and Piggy and attempt at killing Ralph. -end quote-
The book was qualified as a REALISTIC narrative, but in fact it is a perfect example of the veneer-theory: 
the conviction that civilization is just a thin layer of veneer. Take away the moral (self) control and man will turn into a beast: Homo homini lupus (Hobbes).
It is an almost ineradicable belief that man is evil by nature and basically inclined toward evil.
If you try to criticize or even refute this belief, you will be laughed at, qualified as a naive idealist, an unrealistic dreamer.
The belief in a basic positivity of man is a threat for those in power. 
It implies that we are not selfish animals that have to be controlled, kept in check and tamed.
A company with intrinsically motivated workers doesn't need managers. I know of a real example, where there are no managers indeed 
and where the workers organize their tasks by mutual agreement.
We live in a weird situation. Like we are addicted to the sensational news of everything that goes wrong in this world
we also seem to be addicted to belief in the negative nature of man.
Tell about warcrimes, Auschwitz, massacres. What will be the default response?....something like...yes I understand...what else would you expect of man?
Tell, that all human evil is not rule but the exception, that most people are ok and the response will be.....
a compassionate smile. In all human history the bad things are as easily remembered as the good things are easily forgotten.
It is time to change this attitude....thank you for your attention.

The Discussion

[13:21] herman Bergson: I lecture is so positive that no one has any remark :-)
[13:21] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): history at school is about negative things in the world
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): I remember that book, we had it for a school project
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): so have read that
[13:22] herman Bergson: Interesting know it....
[13:22] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): wars and things like that
[13:22] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): ah
[13:22] CB Axel: I read it so long ago that I can't remember the details.
[13:23] herman Bergson: Yes seems that this world is shaped and created by all bad things that happen.....
[13:23] Ciska Riverstone is offline.
[13:23] CB Axel: Also, history is only about bad things if you look at it from the point of view of the losers.
[13:23] CB Axel: A war is a good thing to the winner.
[13:23] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): and if children hear that and learn that how can they be positive?
[13:23] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): war is never something good
[13:24] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): just meaningless death
[13:24] CB Axel: Since history is "written by the winners" we learn that fighting and conquering is a good thing.
[13:24] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): even in church we heard that we were no good
[13:24] herman Bergson: that is the issue here indeed Beertje......we are day after day educated with these negative ideas about man
[13:24] herman Bergson: Works like a self fulfilling prophecy...
[13:25] bergfrau Apfelbaum: i would appreciate a newspaper with positive news
[13:26] CB Axel: Try Reader's Digest.
[13:26] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): on front page
[13:26] herman Bergson: Yes Bergie....and what a strange effect that would have on people....
[13:27] herman Bergson: I have heard only negative criticism about Reader's Digest
[13:27] CB Axel: It's a bit saccharine for my tastes.
[13:27] bergfrau Apfelbaum: maybe envy? if you read how well some people are doing
[13:28] herman Bergson: If it is a positive magazine, the criticism must come from the doom thinkers :-)
[13:28] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): take the corona virus...we only hear how many ppl die...we don't hear how many recover
[13:28] CB Axel: Right, Beertje.
[13:28] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): the view I get from is that it is like the plauge more or less
[13:28] CB Axel: And not how it compares with influenza which is killing more people.
[13:29] herman Bergson: and besides that....the number of deaths is peanuts on a worldwide scale
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yes CB
[13:29] herman Bergson: It was compared with a general flue epidemy here in the news program
[13:29] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): positive news is not sexy
[13:30] CB Axel: I think it's good that countries are trying to contain it, but people are going crazy about it.
[13:30] herman Bergson: Less worse than SARS or Mexican Flue
[13:30] CB Axel: Avoiding going to Chinatowns in US cites, for instance.
[13:30] CB Axel: Chinese restaurants are having a terrible time. No customers. :(
[13:31] herman Bergson: People here say nasty things to Chines (looking) people....discriminating remarks
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): its awful indeed
[13:31] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): well I eat Asia food as usual and not worried about it
[13:32] CB Axel: China, IMO, should do something about their markets where animals are kept together without good sanitation, but I don't blame all Chinese people for that.
[13:32] herman Bergson: Why should victims in The Netherlands or Sweden yet....if I am not mistaken
[13:32] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): but one positive thing happened...a chinese girl is all alone now in the restaurant, her parents are in China and can't come home,...ppl are collecting money to help the parents and the girl to survive the coming weeks
[13:33] CB Axel: Oh, that's nice.
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): aaa
[13:33] CB Axel: I hope she does ok.
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): indeed
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): she does CB:)
[13:33] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): she can smile again
[13:33] CB Axel: :)
[13:33] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:33] herman Bergson: You see....most people are OK :-)
[13:34] theo Velde is offline.
[13:34] herman Bergson: Let that again be our lesson of today ^_^
[13:34] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:34] herman Bergson: And now it is time to celebrate Beertje's Rezday :-)
[13:34] CB Axel: :)
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): yay:))
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): YAY! (yay!)
[13:35] herman Bergson: I offer everyone a free afternoon/evening now :-)
[13:35] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): Hermanis going to sing now...
[13:35] bergfrau Apfelbaum:
[13:35] herman Bergson: Class dismissed ....^_^
[13:35] bergfrau Apfelbaum: Thank you Herman and class!
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): nice again
[13:35] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): cu next time
[13:35] herman Bergson: Lang zal ze leven....
[13:35] herman Bergson: Lang zal ze leven....
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako):
[13:36] CB Axel: Thank you, Herman.
[13:36] herman Bergson: Lang zal ze de gloria
[13:36] herman Bergson: in de gloria
[13:36] herman Bergson: in de gloria
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): hiep hiep hiep;...........................
[13:36] herman Bergson: Hiep Hiep......!
[13:36] herman Bergson: HURRRAAAAAAAA
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Hoooo!
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): Hooo!!!
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): lol:)))))
[13:36] Particle Physicist Bejiita (bejiita.imako): (hugs Beertje again
[13:36] .: Beertje :. (beertje.beaumont): nederlandse lol

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