267: Supersense introduced

Would you buy the house in which a serial killer abused and murdered 19 young girls and burried the bodies in the backyard? In some American states the seller of the house is obliged by law to reveal the history of the house.

When I was a Bruxelles about ten years ago they were restoring a house, that dated from 1450. I have forgotten what the function of the building was…some castle or palace. I picked up a little piece of an old brick and kept it. It is still on my desk here. Why?

What drives the souvenir hunter or for instance the collector of Nazi memorabilia? Memorabilia collectors and fetishists behave in a very special way. They attribute to material objects invisible features that make them unique and irreplaceable.

This behavior is very common through the ages. In the Middle Ages there was a lively trade in bits of wood of the cross of Jesus. If we would collect them all now and assemble the pieces, we probably can build a house of all the wood.

What is it with these objects, that we believe that they have special qualities? It is a matter of fact, that we can not scientifically proof these qualities. Thence these qualities are supernatural.

This brings us to the quintessential question: why do we believe in the supernatural?

Whenever our beliefs rely on mechanisms and phenomena that go beyond our understanding of nature, we're in the field of supernatural beliefs Of course there are a lot of things we can not explain, but this doesn't make them supernatural.

Take for example the problem: how does my mind control my body? We are inclined to see the mind as a not material thing more or less independent of our material bodily. How do these two entities interact?

How to explain all this? The answer has to be found in human nature and in particular in the way we think and in how our thinking developed from childhood to adulthood.

It seems that somewhere in the process we have developed that special frame of mind regarding other people and our environment: we'll call is SUPERSENSE, as suggested by Bruce Hood.

To explain things with reference to supernatural forces is in harmony with our ideas about how the world functions, with all kinds of hidden structures and mechanisms.

We have to expand our quintessential question. We not only will ask "why do we believe in the supernatural?", but also "What is the source of this way of thinking about the world?"

Some immediately will point at religion as the primary source. Religions teach us a lot of supernatural things. A lot of miraculous events, which they want us to believe in, defy all laws of nature.

But you don't need to be religious at all to believe in the supernatural and feel your supersense in action. All forms of superstition, for example, are based on our supersense.

Sometimes we hardly notice the influence of our supersense. Do you remember that creepy feeling, when you entered that dark corridor, or the feeling of being watched by those staring eyes in that painting on the wall behind you, or your reluctance to touch certain things?

We can use all kinds of scientific methods to investigate the brain to discover how the mind works, but the supernatural eludes us here completely.

All our scientific methods don't seem to work on the supernatural. Every time we try it, we find nothing. But this lack of scientific credibility does seem to undermine our belief in the supernatural at all.

It looks as if the supernatural is all around us and that we have our supersense to see it.

So the questions we are going to try to answer are: Why do we believe in the supernatural and What is the source of this way of thinking about the world?

We'll start with that this Thursday ….. :-)

The Discussion

[13:27] Abraxas Nagy: wow interesting
[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: yes very
[13:27] Bejiita Imako: aaa really :)¨
[13:27] herman Bergson: thank you Abraxas
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: the east would give us good reasons :-)
[13:27] Gemma Cleanslate: eastern thought about mysticism that is
[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: if one could believe in supernatural
[13:28] herman Bergson: Well Gemma..we'll come to that certainly
[13:28] Abraxas Nagy: mmm the merge between quantum mechanics and eastern thinking
[13:28] AristotleVon Doobie: of course there is no proof
[13:28] Alarice Beaumont: or the greeks with their gods
[13:28] Gemma Cleanslate: exactly
[13:28] Bejiita Imako: aaa yes
[13:28] Gemma Cleanslate: no proof anywhere
[13:28] herman Bergson: Wait.....
[13:29] herman Bergson: We should keep the problem clearly formulated...
[13:29] herman Bergson: The problem is that we believe in things that defy natural laws, the laws of physics etc.
[13:30] herman Bergson: And we hold these beliefs to be TRUE!!!
[13:30] herman Bergson: so as a real part of reality
[13:30] herman Bergson: And the problem with these beliefs is that we cant investigate them and test them scientifically
[13:31] itsme Frederix: the point is that the proposition is: supernatural beliefs are natural . I guess Bruce has a good point with that.. The 2nd is that is is quite efficient to use these supernatural conventions.
[13:31] AristotleVon Doobie: is it a possibility that the destination was arrived at by the rails of a agreed upon collective thinking or rather misthinking?
[13:31] herman Bergson: Yes Itsme...very true...but you are reading ahead lol
[13:32] itsme Frederix: well you gave a clue
[13:32] herman Bergson: Yes..the supernatural is natural....but that has severe consequences...
[13:32] herman Bergson: and those we are going to study in on coming lectures...
[13:32] AristotleVon Doobie: are they natural? I think not, they must be implanted
[13:32] itsme Frederix: lets first define why it is natural, it looks like it has been evolved in our brains
[13:32] herman Bergson: Well Aristotle....
[13:33] herman Bergson: there are two points that make the supernatural natural...
[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: evolved or repeatedly nurtured, itsme?
[13:33] herman Bergson: one is: the culture we live in
[13:33] itsme Frederix: Bruce claims evolved
[13:33] herman Bergson: two is: the construction of our brain
[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: I agree culture can be contaminating to good thought
[13:34] itsme Frederix: our brain seems to be wired up with circuits that support supernatural
[13:34] herman Bergson: and yes Itsme...the evolution of the brain is a major point in this discussion
[13:34] herman Bergson: Beware Itsme....
[13:35] herman Bergson: This statement has consequences...
[13:35] herman Bergson: I do not remeber if you attended the introduction on September 2?
[13:35] itsme Frederix: but I do, I did
[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: can the evolution of the brain be affected by hearsay evidence or does that require empirical data??
[13:35] Abraxas Nagy: nope
[13:36] herman Bergson: But there I have stated that this project will take its stand in materialism...
[13:36] Abraxas Nagy: ah
[13:36] Josiane Llewellyn: I think dreams are part of why we believe in a supernatural world and sense.
[13:36] AristotleVon Doobie: I suppose I will be your counterpoint LOL
[13:36] Alarice Beaumont: Hi Qwark :-)
[13:36] Bejiita Imako: hi Qwark ㋡
[13:36] herman Bergson: There are emirical data about the evolution of the brain Aristotle...
[13:36] itsme Frederix: well by stating the brain is wired for supersense you do the materialization, you just have to find the circuits then ... voila
[13:37] Qwark Allen: ㋡ ˜*•. ˜”*°•.˜”*°• Helloooooo! •°*”˜.•°*”˜ .•*˜ ㋡
[13:37] Qwark Allen: Hey! friends ,-)
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: Hooo!!!
[13:37] Bejiita Imako: Hoooo!
[13:37] herman Bergson: Hi Qwark..:-)
[13:37] bergfrau Apfelbaum: hi qwark :-) and hii hope :-)
[13:37] Abraxas Nagy: Hiya Qwark
[13:37] Alarice Beaumont: but some people are more superstisious then others
[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: yes, but can hearsay make the brain evolve?
[13:37] Beertje Beaumont: hi Qwark
[13:37] herman Bergson: EVenRodney!! Welcome:-)
[13:37] Abraxas Nagy: hiya hope
[13:37] Rodney Handrick: hi herman
[13:38] hope63 Shepherd: hi all of you.. just ignore my presence and let me listen for a while..
[13:38] herman Bergson: We will pay attention to the evolution of the brain Aristotle in future lectures
[13:38] Qwark Allen: sorry got here late, there was a lot of trafffic to cross the bridge
[13:38] itsme Frederix: why hearsay, you are founding supersense in hearsay?
[13:38] herman Bergson: Hi Hope ^_*
[13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: if I tell you god spoke to me and you believe me, will you children believe it too?
[13:38] hope63 Shepherd: smile.. hello old friend herman:)
[13:38] Alarice Beaumont: Hope ..:-))
[13:38] Alarice Beaumont smiling heartily
[13:39] AristotleVon Doobie: what else is our beliefs without data to prove them but hearsay?
[13:39] herman Bergson: I guess so Aristotle....they have a natural inclination to believe such things, reported by an authority
[13:39] Rodney Handrick: just so you all know caileach in rl is living through earthquakes
[13:39] itsme Frederix: I'm really sorry, but I supersense my wife needs me now. Sorry
[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: :)
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: ok
[13:40] herman Bergson: smiles
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: oh that is good rodney
[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: yes Rodney I was thinking of her this morning reading the paper
[13:40] herman Bergson: not everyone can say that Itsme..lol
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: was thinking of her the other day
[13:41] Adriana Jinn: yes we think of everyone
[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL, wave you hand and I submit that the hearsay must be repeated to the next generation
[13:41] herman Bergson: Ok I guess...we get diverted....
[13:41] Rodney Handrick: I forget how to raise my hand
[13:42] Gemma Cleanslate: always
[13:42] herman Bergson: So maybe better to move on to next Thursday with our discussion
[13:42] Alarice Beaumont: honestly.... me too Rodney
[13:42] herman Bergson: To conclude our discussion of today I especially want to thank Gemma Cleanslate. She drew my attention to an interesting website --> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/brain/
[13:42] Rodney Handrick: thanks gemma
[13:42] Gemma Cleanslate: yw
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: ah
[13:42] herman Bergson: A very nice website that shows the history and physiology of the brain and more
[13:42] Bejiita Imako: lets see what that can be
[13:43] Gemma Cleanslate: lots of information
[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: it was a series wasnt it?
[13:43] herman Bergson: So thank you all for your participation today....hope to see you next Thursday again!
[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: thanks Professor
[13:43] herman Bergson: Class dismissed
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: interesting topic for sure this ㋡
[13:43] Abraxas Nagy: thank YOU professor
[13:43] Bejiita Imako: thanx
[13:44] Josiane Llewellyn: thank you Professor
[13:44] Rodney Handrick: wow... that was fast!
[13:44] herman Bergson: There will be lots more Bejiita ^_^
[13:44] Abraxas Nagy: i sure hope so
[13:44] Beertje Beaumont: Thank you Herman:)
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: great
[13:44] Bejiita Imako: ㋡
[13:44] Adriana Jinn: thankyou herman
[13:44] Jozen Ocello: thanks Professor
[13:44] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:44] Gemma Cleanslate: see you thursday
[13:45] Adriana Jinn: always so interesting
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: aaa
[13:45] Abraxas Nagy: see you all on thursday
[13:45] Jozen Ocello: I'm afraid I've not done much reading ... but I will read up before Thursday
[13:45] Adriana Jinn: thanks a lot to all
[13:45] Jozen Ocello: thanks and see you on Thursday
[13:45] Jozen Ocello: bye all
[13:45] Bejiita Imako: ill try show up
[13:45] Alarice Beaumont: thank you Herman :-)

266: The Mystery of the Brain introduced

Welcome all. It is a great joy to see you all back again.I hope your vacation was as good as mine.

Here in front of me on my desk in RL I have a book. Its title is "A materialist Theory of Mind" (1968) by D.M. Armstronng. I bought is September 24 in 1976 and it cost me the fortune of almost US$20. And that was a fortune for a student in those days.

The flap text begins thus: " Professor Armstrong defends the view, currently much discussed by analytical philosophers, that mental states are purely physical states of the brain."

What already was on my bookshelves since July 1973 was "The 'Mental and the 'Physical' " (1958) by Herbert Feigl. I think it was my main inspiration philosophically.

This was basic reading for the subject of my thesis for graduation then in 1976. And here I am again with the same thesis. (….smiles….) Did I never get further in all these years. Didn't I get wiser? We'll see.

Much has changed since 1976, especially regarding our knowledge of the brain. The mind is no longer only a philosophical topic. Other sciences have entered the arena.

I don't mean just psychology, but especially neurobiology and neuroscience. Now we have men like Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Dan Dennet. They have changed the philosophical scenery considerably.

For me this is going to be a special project. It is not just an academic presentation of a subject with many different points of view possible. It will be a personal stand. I will stand for a materialist theory of mind.

This means that the series of lectures I have scheduled will be a kind of argumentation to make my point. However, it is not my intention that at the end of the semester you all have to say: yes you are right.

The lectures and the research for them will be more of a test, a searching for the answer whether the materialist view is tenable or not, to clarify the arguments in favor and against this view.

To find out what happens, when you take a materialist interpretation of the mind as the most plausible one, which philosophical questions you then still have to face.

But my starting point will be the assumption that a materialist theory of the mind is our best choice to understand ourselves as conscious beings.

The subject with which I will begin this project is the concept of "Supersense" as explained by Bruce M. Hood in his book "Supersense: Why do we believe in the unbelievable" (2009)

We thus, to begin with, deal with the phenomenon of the supernatural in our existence and try to understand it. We'll investigate the balance between rationality and our irrational ideas.

The next stage will be a journey through the latest developments in neurosciences. I even allow begging the question by spending time on discussing the biological roots of our emotions.

After this materialist introduction we'll begin with investigating the history of the philosophy of mind. What questions and answers have been put forward regarding consciousness, the mind, the Self, personal identity since the early days of philosophy.

I guess our final station will become the question, whether this materialist starting point has helped us to find satisfactory answers to our philosophical questions or not.

This is not going to be an easy project. That I can promise you. Not easy for you and certainly not easy for me, but I hope that is will achieve its main goal: that it will be entertaining and especially educational for all of us.

Thank you.


The Discussion

[13:22] Adriana Jinn: whaooo
[13:22] AristotleVon Doobie: I fully suspect this will be one helluva good time. :)
[13:22] Adriana Jinn: that is a program
[13:22] herman Bergson: Yes I hope I wont let you down ...
[13:22] Gemma Cleanslate: and do you have any references for us to read on the web???
[13:23] Repose Lionheart: a great adventure, this
[13:23] herman Bergson: Well ..for a start find Bruce Hood...
[13:23] AristotleVon Doobie: you have my mind clicking already, Herman
[13:23] herman Bergson: There is a lot of him, also on youtube...
[13:23] herman Bergson: Sounds good Aristotle ^_^
[13:24] Gemma Cleanslate: ok
[13:24] herman Bergson: You also can start looking around for neurobiology or neurosciences...
[13:24] Gemma Cleanslate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMgaQ-lCkio
[13:24] Gemma Cleanslate: ok
[13:24] herman Bergson: English Wikipedia is ok for a start
[13:25] herman Bergson: It is gonna be a lot of work ^_^
[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: i guess
[13:25] herman Bergson: That is for sure
[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:25] Gemma Cleanslate: as usual
[13:26] herman Bergson: It seems that nobody has any questions about my chosen starting point?!
[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: the origin of our selves have occupied a lot of my thinking
[13:27] Adriana Jinn: well very interesting but vast
[13:27] herman Bergson: Well...you might find something here then Aristotle
[13:27] Adriana Jinn: wide subject
[13:27] AristotleVon Doobie: if the brain is the seat of consciouness, where do you think its root resides in the physical brain?
[13:28] herman Bergson: The brain generates consciousness
[13:28] herman Bergson: no brain no consciousness :-)
[13:29] herman Bergson: That is why I speak of the mystery of the brain.....
[13:29] Jozen Ocello: and perhaps also generate subconsciousness?
[13:29] herman Bergson: and not the mystery of the mind or consciousness
[13:29] AristotleVon Doobie: but could it be similar to 'the computer in the hands of the human'?
[13:30] AristotleVon Doobie: without the computer no online
[13:30] herman Bergson: The computer is the human, Aristotle
[13:30] herman Bergson: The subconscious is a whole different story...
[13:31] herman Bergson: it is a theoretical construct invented by the psychoanalytical school
[13:31] Repose Lionheart: yes, agree
[13:31] herman Bergson: it is a concept of a higher theoretical level than I want to start from
[13:32] Jozen Ocello: i see
[13:32] AristotleVon Doobie: smiling, it is my suggestion that the mind needs the machine (brain) to communicate and direct the body only
[13:32] herman Bergson: the subconscious presupposes an extensive theory about what the mind is..
[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: this will be a long discussion every week i think
[13:33] herman Bergson: Well Aristotle...this going to be a fight....^_^
[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: the cart and the horse, which is in front? :)
[13:33] herman Bergson: The debate about dualism and monism....
[13:33] AristotleVon Doobie: yes, I am excited :)
[13:33] herman Bergson: You sound dualistic in your statements :-)
[13:33] Jozen Ocello: this makes the class more interesting, I suppose :)
[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
[13:33] Adriana Jinn: yes exciting
[13:33] Gemma Cleanslate: unless we fall of track!
[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: indeed, maybe even quadralistic LOL
[13:34] herman Bergson: You may give a lecture on that Aristotle ^_^
[13:34] AristotleVon Doobie: I look forward to attaining more data
[13:35] AristotleVon Doobie: LOL, I may scare folks away
[13:36] herman Bergson: Well..the main development in philosophy of mind is, I think, that the materialist point of view is discussed more openly now and that more sciences are involved in that debate...
[13:36] herman Bergson: A big change...
[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: I think so, but I worry about sciences becoming religious in their posture
[13:37] itsme Frederix: skeptic magazine vol.15 2009 .. has an artivcle about Bruce
[13:37] herman Bergson: We will get to that debate Aristotle....
[13:37] AristotleVon Doobie: :)
[13:37] herman Bergson: It is interesting to see how we think about science....
[13:38] herman Bergson: especially related to our supersense
[13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: yes
[13:38] AristotleVon Doobie: it is hard to keep the subjective at bay
[13:38] herman Bergson: Is that article online Itsme?
[[13:39] herman Bergson: Phew....the kick off.....
[13:39] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ LOL ♥
[13:39] Gemma Cleanslate: ok
[13:40] herman Bergson: I will do my utmost to make this project work for you ( and me)
[13:40] AristotleVon Doobie: :) a bright step forward
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: very nice
[13:40] herman Bergson: So....thank you al for your attention and get ready for next Tuesday :-)
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: Tuesday we begin!!
[13:40] Gemma Cleanslate: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: I suspect very strongly you will not disappoint, Professor
[13:41] Gemma Cleanslate: good to be back
[13:41] Adriana Jinn: looking forward to it
[13:41] Jozen Ocello: ah is it on Tuesday from next week onwards?
[13:41] Beertje Beaumont: thank you Herman
[13:41] Gemma Cleanslate: and see all the old students and the new ones
[13:41] Adriana Jinn: thank you professor
[13:41] Jozen Ocello: thanks Professor :)
[13:41] AristotleVon Doobie: Thank you, Prof
[13:41] Jozen Ocello: see you all next Tuesday
[13:41] Josiane Llewellyn: Thanks Professor
[13:41] Gemma Cleanslate: yes
[13:41] SonolaLuna Greymoon: :) danke professor
[13:41] herman Bergson: every Tuesday and Thursday at 1 PM SL time, Jozen
[13:41] Gemma Cleanslate: Bye, Bye ㋡
[13:41] Jozen Ocello: ah i see
[13:41] Jozen Ocello: thanks :)
[13:41] herman Bergson: Thank you all...:-)
[13:41] Adriana Jinn: bye bye all and thanks again
[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: ye Adriana
[13:42] AristotleVon Doobie: bye
[13:42] itsme Frederix: I'm already reading - see you nex week!
[13:42] Beertje Beaumont: bye Herman
[13:42] herman Bergson: Bye Beertje :-)
[13:42] herman Bergson: ok Itsme
[13:43] AristotleVon Doobie: good bye folks, and thanks again Herman
[13:43] Repose Lionheart: bye
[13:43] Jozen Ocello: bye everyone
[13:43] herman Bergson: my pleasure Aristotle ^_^
[13:43] Sartre Placebo: thx herman and bye everyone
[13:43] bergfrau Apfelbaum: byebye all:-)
[13:43] herman Bergson: bye Bergie